1985 seed bank catalog

Nevil said:
Lets give him courier of the year award.
Now he's saying I stole his seeds and knocked them off? He sold his seeds to The Seed Bank. He looked me up to do so because he needed money. There were no conditions attached to the sale except that I had no recourse if they failed to germinate. They were old. It was only when I started beating him in the cups, that he came up with imaginary clauses to imaginary contracts. He also started telling me that he should get royalties according to the percentage used of all the strains that passed through his hands. He's a fucking nut!
The fact is, that I beat him in the cups with everything. I beat him with Skunk, I beat him with Haze, I beat him with Northern Lights and whatever else I won the cups with. For a guy who walks around telling everyone that he is the greatest cannabis breeder in the history of mankind (no kidding, that's an oft repeated quote) it must be galling. "Mirror, mirror on the wall / Who in the land is fairest of all?
In a way, I'm still beating him. Wasn't this years first and second in the recent cup daughters of the Nevil's Haze? Maybe it's time for a "Rumble in the Jungle" in next years cups. The best is yet to come.
N.
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lets just keep it 100%,the truth is an award itself a title is materialistic

my only concern is the truth (true origins of haze to be exact) ,both your dealing arent really my concern but its sucks your relations went south .im just reporting wat was told to me aswell as what SAMS has posted publicly .i pmed you to discuss this but im glad you wish to speak about it open ,its great to hear your side .

i take no sides there is nothin to side over this is your guys story im thankful your willing to share ,while SAMS will not speak all we have is his old post

as SAMS actually told me if i like or believe you im not a friend to him.i explained to him as i will to you my interest is the history and the truth its not about you or him its about history being written as it was

There were no conditions attached to the sale except that I had no recourse if they failed to germinate
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this is all i was sayin ,SAMS stated the opposite in my thread at IC aswell as in details in a pm to me ,im actually told RCC was there when this deal/your word was given.I dont recall him sayin you stole his seeds he did say you sold the seeds he made yes

is this true this did you resell seeds he sold you ?

SAMS post below


Lets be honest Neville got the seeds from me, but he had promised me that he would not make pure Haze and sell them as such, I told him it was fine to make Haze hybrids with other varieties that were not mine.
He broke his word and started selling Haze pure and hybrids with my varieties, and I stopped working with him.
Maybe he lied to avoid the problems that accompany breaking your word?
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ive asked you both wat he meant by this an his response was nevilles haze ,not sure if he meant there was no NL5 in it or you made a hybrid wit 2 of his strains which was against your word im not sure



I gave him Skunk #1 and a few others and he repaid me a few years later by copying my varieties and selling them himself cutting me out, after promising he would not.
You were not there but RCC was there and can back me up, but what the hell, why am I arguing with someone that has no idea what really happened as it was between me and Neville and you are just repeating a story that was told to you by people that believed Neville and thought he was a man of his word, but he is not

I sold him seeds not the variety, get it??? He sold Ben the variety, but he did not own it, get it???
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im not reporting anything other than whats already been said ,but it does seem SAMS is right about you selling his varieties pure in the 86 catalogue

it be great to see you both back in action it be adream if it were together cup or no cup ,as i joked before in pm id love too see you both in harmony ,which was my intial intention of the pm i sent ya


1luvbigherb
 
Look Bigherb, I understand your passion for history, but how many times do I have to tell you the same thing? Rob wasn't there when I bought the Haze seeds and no agreements were made about selling the progeny that might germinate from those old seeds. He advised against making pure haze as it wouldn't produce as good a product. He was right and I didn't.
The Skunk story is more bullshit. He even gave me the greenhouse SK photo to use in my catalogue. I was a good customer and bought a lot of seeds. Now don't bother me anymore about what Sam said. He is not worth so much of my attention.
it be great to see you both back in action it be adream if it were together cup or no cup ,as i joked before in pm id love too see you both in harmony ,which was my intial intention of the pm i sent ya
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Forget about it. He's a traitor to his own kind.
N.
 
Nevil said:
Lets give him courier of the year award.
Now he's saying I stole his seeds and knocked them off? He sold his seeds to The Seed Bank. He looked me up to do so because he needed money. There were no conditions attached to the sale except that I had no recourse if they failed to germinate. They were old. It was only when I started beating him in the cups, that he came up with imaginary clauses to imaginary contracts. He also started telling me that he should get royalties according to the percentage used of all the strains that passed through his hands. He's a fucking nut!
The fact is, that I beat him in the cups with everything. I beat him with Skunk, I beat him with Haze, I beat him with Northern Lights and whatever else I won the cups with. For a guy who walks around telling everyone that he is the greatest cannabis breeder in the history of mankind (no kidding, that's an oft repeated quote) it must be galling. "Mirror, mirror on the wall / Who in the land is fairest of all?
In a way, I'm still beating him. Wasn't this years first and second in the recent cup daughters of the Nevil's Haze? Maybe it's time for a "Rumble in the Jungle" in next years cups. The best is yet to come.
N.
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Nev's right, Sam is an egomaniac and a fucking nut, not only does he think the cannabis world owes him a debt of gratitude he also loves to paint himself as some kind of martyr for the cause and the victim of the lies of others stealing his work and taking credit.

Truth is, other people have been real martyrs, losing years of their freedom to authorities, other people have had their credit stolen by Sam.

Sam has told a lot of lies about the deal with Nev, he has contradicted himself and until now has got away with it because Nev wasn't around to give his side of the story. I've heard that point about Sam thinking he is the greatest cannabis breeder ever more than once from more than one person. Honestly, what strains did Sam breed? Haze and Skunk were other people's work and he got hold of them later, all the strains he developed for sale by TFD in Holland were simple F1 crosses of Haze and Skunk to a handful of strains that Sam worked a bit but didn't breed originally - Hawaiian, South Indian, Afghani#1.

I really can't be bothered going back, quoting Sam's old posts and pointing out precisely where he told lies, but it would be simple enough to do a complete number on the guy's tales by doing so. One example, he said that Nev promised not to sell pure Haze seeds, only to make hybrids to his own strains then broke his word and sold pure Haze. Well, that's BS, Nev never had pure Haze in his catalogue. That's one example of many. First time I met Sam I didn't realise who he was and was talking to him about soil mixes tailored for pure sativas and he said to me 'Haze doesn't work too well under lights' and then suggested 'Nevil's Haze would be the closest to a pure Haze that would be workable under lights' so in person he was honest enough.

Sam has already done a huge amount to hurt the cannabis scene, but his real legacy may yet still be waiting in the wings with the scary developments he is working on under the guise of his med work with Hortapharm and GW Pharma.

I think Nev hit it on the head when he said we should award Sam the title of greatest COURIER of all-time. Sam got paid and paidwell for that but it wasn't enough for him, as well as the money he wanted all the credit, kudos and respect too.
 
joaquin386 said:
I dont think anyone can win the HTCC unless they put money into it. The 420 ICMAG on the other side ....
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I should of been more clear earlier = Dutch Grow is Gypsy's wife. Haven't you seen or heard disclaimers about contests "not available to families of employees"?

It is a scam to pad their pockets - every aspect of that event/site is there to pad their pockets, starting with them asking for free seeds to auction off.
 
Nevil said:
Look Bigherb, I understand your passion for history, but how many times do I have to tell you the same thing? Rob wasn't there when I bought the Haze seeds and no agreements were made about selling the progeny that might germinate from those old seeds. He advised against making pure haze as it wouldn't produce as good a product. He was right and I didn't.
The Skunk story is more bullshit. He even gave me the greenhouse SK photo to use in my catalogue. I was a good customer and bought a lot of seeds. Now don't bother me anymore about what Sam said. He is not worth so much of my attention.
Forget about it. He's a traitor to his own kind.
N.
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nevil

much respect always

you only have to tell me once ,gotcha i understand.

im thankful to you for sharing all that you have ,as its been said most of the folk who are owed credit are gone ,but we here at mns n somtimes at IC have the opportunity to actually speak with 2 fellas who were there .soo its important to ME to get both sides of the story

this is old news no new post from him ,i wasnt trying to upset you far from that ,but understand this all unfolded in front of my eyes as i dont recall seeing all of the catalogues before especially 86 (being of the younger gen etc),soo it was my opportunity to now reference the old post n in doin soo you were here to ask questions to

this has been a great thread thanks to all for your contributions ,lets finish the collective of catalogues for future reference

1luvbigherb
 
Ronin said:
I should of been more clear earlier = Dutch Grow is Gypsy's wife. Haven't you seen or heard disclaimers about contests "not available to families of employees"?

It is a scam to pad their pockets - every aspect of that event/site is there to pad their pockets, starting with them asking for free seeds to auction off.
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DG and Gypsy were never married, they were together for a while, it was a funny situation, DG was the girlfriend of Plural of Mongoose who worked for Gypsy then had a big falling out, tried to get control of the seed business and took legal action over a supposed assault. PoM got it together with Gypsy's ex-wife and Gypsy got together with PoM's ex-girlfriend, it's like a soap opera!
 
heres some old sacred seeds stuff, and the missing photos from the sssc87..
 

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Isn't that strange that in the "Greetings from California" article published in 1980 there is no mention of Skunk#1.

Did Sam really had sk#1 before the 80s?

Peace.

K.
 
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Peace.

K.
 
I've seen that pic of the Sacred Seeds packet before, it's in a book a friend has.

There's a lot that doesn't add up if you try to follow history prior to 1980 and it really gets into the realms of who you prefer to believe.

The Sacred Seeds catalogue advert appeared in 1981, Sam says it was for his seeds and RCC was the one who persuaded him to have it published in HT, it has Skunk #1 and Skunk #2 listed.

There's a fella called ohsogreen sho says he met Mendocino Joe in a parking lot in 1978 in the Bay Area to buy Skunk seeds. Mendo Joe was supposed to be one of the 6 guys who bred Skunk within the Sacred Seeds collective, ohso has written a bit about this at breedbay and has passed around seeds he has made that descend from those Mendo Joe originals by open pollinated between several outdoor plants every few years, they produce what is recogniseable as Skunk but a very less inbred and stabilised version, roughly 40% of the phenos are Acapulco dominant, 40% Colombian dominant and 20% Afghan dom indica phenos. Sadly, when grown indoors, this line produces a few intersexed females, outdoors it doesn't.

No idea if ohso's story is true, I strongly suspect it is. The concensus from the old timers I've spoken to about it is that Skunk was developed in the early 70s in the Bay Area by 6 different guys living in various communes who were all members of the Sacred Seeds Collective. Sam says he started selling Skunk #1 seeds in 1976, he also says Sacred Seeds was him and not a collective and that he alone is the breeder of skunk.

Like I say, it all comes down to who you chose to believe, personally, I reckon Skunk did come out of the bay area communes and Sam, while he worked it a lot didn't originally create it. Good luck ever proving any one particular theory, it is said 2 of the original 6 breeders are dead and the others are long gone from the scene so the only sources of info are secondhand at best. There is a story that Mendo Joe went north to Vancouver and carried on growing and breeding there where he worked his version of the Skunk into a grape/pine smelling more indica leaning type that became known as Romulan, again, I'm not sure if this is true or not, it may well be.

One other thing that's strange is that the Haze bros conducted interviews and buds grown by them were featured in HT between 1980 and 1983 yet Sam says that by the 80s the Haze bros weren't speaking to each other and one had moved to Mexico. Sam also says the Haze bros were the only ones to grow Haze then we have an article with a Jingles fella growing it in 1980. Several people tell me the BOEL imports from their farm in Hawaii in the late 60s was called Haze and came in state of the art vacuum sealed packages with a purple dragon logo on them and most packages were sensi, you might find a seed or two in a package but it was not often.

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(Note the Haze bros Kush, middle right)

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This Dragon appeared on BOEL shipments from Hawaii, it is said this weed was called Haze.

There's a lot of questions and answers are like hen's teeth. Stories, however are rather more common and while they are always interesting I don't know how many of them I believe.
 

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And I quite plainly state that they are just stories.

Your attitude really does stink.
 
hey bh

One other thing that's strange is that the Haze bros conducted interviews and buds grown by them were featured in HT between 1980 and 1983 yet Sam says that by the 80s the Haze bros weren't speaking to each other and one had moved to Mexico. Sam also says the Haze bros were the only ones to grow Haze then we have an article with a Jingles fella growing it in 1980.
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Jingles = Sam Skunkman?

This guy in the article (Jingles) had Kush Afghan Africans (and hybrids of them) , South Indian , Haze etc etc..
Sam had and sold Kush/Afgh/Africans(and hybrids) , he had and sold South Indian..and Haze.. Last but not least , in the article it is mentioned that Jingles gave the soil recipe to the article writer, Sam in his posts had said it was him that he was the one that told the world the haze soil recipe..

Just a coincidence? I do not really think so.
 
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