Grail: The Ultimate Haze Hybrid

[Donald Mallard]

Hi josh ,,
f1 hybrids shouldnt be all over the place ,

landraces show all the spectrum ,

we narrow it down making inbred lines .
to use to make our f1 hybrids .

nevil mentioned all that already im pretty sure ...

 

[joshuahazen]

Mine are all f2 and beyond, hence the diversity. I like that though, If I need homogeneity I just make clones of the best selection.

Sounds interesting about inbreeding before doing the F1, I've never done that. I'd like to know more about that.
Thanks Donald.

 

[british_hempire]

Well i dont know where you fellas get the idea that landraces are true breeding ,, they are not ..
why do you think we need to make hybrids ?
landraces have been replaced by true breeding cultivars or hybrids , because they are not true breeding ..

i get the feeling some folks are growing landrace strains that have had quite a few 1:1 matings before they got hold of them ... maybe they have already been hybridised ..

this is the only way you could have plants all the same that i know of ,,

anyone ??

I agree 100% wally. The Colombian Gold line I have has been bottlenecked by multiple 1:1 matings long before I got it, probably before it left S America. It could have been hybridised long ago before it was bottlenecked, I'll never know for sure. I don't care because whatever has been done to it has only made it more suitable for my purposes, if it was still in it's original variable form I'd have to do several gens of selection to make it truebreeding for it's desirable traits.

i have to disagree there josh ,, heres why ,,
a quote from robert allards principles of plant breeding ..

"All landraces are or appear to be heterogenous mixtures or genotypes that have mutually benefitial associations with each other and the environmental conditions . Dependability , especially the capacity to produce at least modest yeilds even when growing conditions are unfavourable , characterize the modern landraces , and this has perhaps been the most important attribute of landraces throughout the centries .....""


if they were all the same ,, then how would they survive situations that require diversity ???

Again, I agree 100% 'surviving situations that require diversity' was what I was trying to say in my earlier post about the Moravian feral population.

 

[bfskinner]

What I'm seeing is that "Landrace" is an ill-defined word at best. Any genetics which have never been kicked around California, Spain and Holland gets called a "Landrace" by most people.

Their are plenty of anceint cultivars which exhibit true-breeding characteristics, "unworked" cannabis strains among them. There are also areas/life styles where farming tends to be more semi-cultivated and mobile and true-breeding isn't really a concern so much as, like donald said, getting some kind of yield.

Case in point, the pawpaw vs the sweet sop. Both from the same family, but more "organized" societies farmed the sweet sop to be relatively true breeding. The pawpaw has been eaten for centuries if not millenia by south-east American aboriginal people but never bred to anything resembling uniformity because their society was less stationary.

 

[british_hempire]

I found some more pics of Angola Red x Banghi, grown by Kayaman:

 

[british_hempire]

A green pheno of Angola x Banghi grown by my friend Moppel indoors, he tells me this was one of the nicest smokes he's ever grown:

 

[Kangativa]

bfskinner....Good post, I am with you on that one mate.

Ok Donald and the rest of you I would like you to tell me which one of these does not breed true.....Bo Kluea, Mae Chan, Mae Ai, Sop Ruak, Huay Xai and Fang ??? They are all areas where the famous Thai Buddha was grown and are all a Thai Landrace.
Remember you cant lump them all together as then it would just be bagseed and so would not be a true indication of a landraces character from that area when numerous seeds are grown out.

Bigherb what valley are you talking about when you say a Afi's doesnt breed true ???

 

[hempy]

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[british_hempire]

Each seed expressing the exact same genetic make-up? Sorry hempy but that's wrong, doesn't work like that.

 

[Donald Mallard]

bfskinner....Good post, I am with you on that one mate.

Ok Donald and the rest of you I would like you to tell me which one of these does not breed true.....Bo Kluea, Mae Chan, Mae Ai, Sop Ruak, Huay Xai and Fang ??? They are all areas where the famous Thai Buddha was grown and are all a Thai Landrace.
Remember you cant lump them all together as then it would just be bagseed and so would not be a true indication of a landraces character from that area when numerous seeds are grown out.

Bigherb what valley are you talking about when you say a Afi's doesnt breed true ???

Breed true for what kanga ,,??

hempy ,, you should really give up mate ...

 

[Donald Mallard]

hiya kanga good to see you mate looks like we will just have to show them what a pure line is mate educating the un educated.

That Angola would be a pure line being stable and each seed expressing the exact same genetic make up of the parents the seed were made from it was not a big thing to see or find in genetics once.

hempy i wouldnt mind your posts if you didnt have to be bitchy ,, why do you have to do that man ????
im pretty sure no one likes it and im not the only one ,

if you post snidey remarks at people it offends them ..

arrogence needs to be back with intellect ...

 

[Kangativa]

Breed true for what kanga ,,??

hempy ,, you should really give up mate ...

Ok true breeding then....Better

 

[Donald Mallard]

ohh sorry kanga ,
i should have welcomed you back ,
how goes the water damage ??
and the garden ?

On the landrace issue ,,
i just disagree with hempy that landrace strains come out exactly the same ,
its not the beast i know at all ..
absolutely there are traits that one can see that are typical of a particular strain ,,,
but landraces can and often are all over the place , many different types within the spectrum ,
if its feild grown cannabis thats had a lot of males around , nearby , in the next feild ,,
the buds we see carry seeds from many different fathers ,
how can they be the same?

 

[british_hempire]

I'm with you on this one Wally, they have to have variation to be able to adapt.

 

[Donald Mallard]

here you go hempy and others ,
im sure you probably checked it out already ,,
but heres what old wiki said about landraces
says they dont conform to a particular standard type,"??
doesnt that go to the opposite of what you are saying hempy ???

For specific formal breeds called "Landrace", see Landrace (disambiguation).

A landrace is a local variety of a domesticated animal or plant species which has developed largely by natural processes, by adaptation to the natural and cultural environment in which it lives. It differs from a formal breed which has been bred deliberately to conform to a particular standard type. Landraces are usually more genetically and physically diverse than formal breeds. Many formal breeds originated from landraces, and sometimes a particular type has both landrace and formal breed populations. Sometimes a formalised breed retains the "landrace" name, despite no longer being a true landrace.

 

[british_hempire]

Landraces are usually more genetically and physically diverse than formal breeds.

That puts it succinctly.

Sometimes a formalised breed retains the "landrace" name, despite no longer being a true landrace.

My Colombian Gold I think is an example of this, it's been highly wrked so isn't a true landrace anymore just a derivation from the Santa Marta Highland Gold genepool, a snapshot of a broad genepool of many closely related types.

 

[Donald Mallard]

That puts it succinctly.



My Colombian Gold I think is an example of this, it's been highly wrked so isn't a true landrace anymore just a derivation from the Santa Marta Highland Gold genepool, a snapshot of a broad genepool of many closely related types.

i thought that too bh ,
a lot of the sativa in australia will fall into the same catagory .

 

[british_hempire]

a lot of the sativa in australia will fall into the same catagory .

That's probably why hempy things landraces don't have variation - the old lines he gets to see have been worked a lot cos people have maintained them year on year by seed so have bottlenecked them. They weren't like that back in Asia before they were brought to Australia.

 

[Donald Mallard]

That's probably why hempy things landraces don't have variation - the old lines he gets to see have been worked a lot cos people have maintained them year on year by seed so have bottlenecked them. They weren't like that back in Asia before they were brought to Australia.

that was what i thought also ,
already had 1:1 matings ,
not really what we can call a landrace
perhaps we are not all on the same page .

 

[british_hempire]

The problem is in the terminology. What should we call these worked descendants of landraces? Heirlooms?