Marco's Apology

  • Thread starter Thread starter Hazy Lady
  • Start date Start date
There s just no doubting we cannot fully recreate a tropical envoirnment indoors. . We can try to mimic the equatorial sun with HID + fluoros, by providing temp + humidity control , and air movement with fans etc. imho it does not compare to an outdoor tropical envoinment with extreme sunlight , rain , wind , and natural soil with billions of microbes and fuana .
Sure artificial lighting grows decent , healthy potent herb , but imho , and i v stated this in previous posts on other forums , does not compare to a pure sativa grown to its full potential in the tropics. To fully express the psyco active properties , strong natural sunlight is best.

Yes Botanical gardens have been growing tropical plants in greenhouses 1000s of miles from their natural envoinment for over 100 years , there are also still some tropical plants that are not growing and maturing to their full potential in these man made envoirnments. Real Botanists with their university Phds and unlimited resources cannot grow these plants to their full potential outside their natural envoirnment. Why ?

I m not taking sides , i m just posting my opinion from experience smoking herb and hash for + 20years . Give me some nicely grown and cured African herb or proper Blond Moroccan Hash made from sun dried sativas anyday of the week .

We grow cannabis to consume. Herbys pics show a nice healthy plant , growing indoors . No doubt it is a beautiful smoke . All i m saying is , grown outdoors , with extreme natural sunlight , it would have a little something extra .

"i got sunshine , in a bag"
 
my little computer clock now says 8:40pm so roughly eight hours since the last post which is a good thing. i just read through five pages of some real moronic posts showing plenty of online testosterone and i am at a loss?

i can point out several posts where i politely asked that this stop. that is waste of time. so first i will ask once more that before you make one more post, stop and think and make sure it is something productive that you have say and secondly, say it in as civil a tone as you can muster.

but you don't have to either. cause i promise that the next post in this thread with any kind of a negative attitude will be the person i consider to be my number one online enemy and i will dog you every chance i get and every time i see you post. dont care if i am banned cause this is bullshit. i will call you every name in the book until we leave together. you want to pick at each other? then i will give you some current events to pick at, me.

and btw, i have no online enemies. zero. nada. nice work fellas.

peace-biteme
 
G`day Madzonga
Thanks for the tune bro it put a smile on my face ,I had the chorus of this song in my head a couple of days ago and to hear this version was a treat .
Thanks for sharin
Elmer Bud
 
The ability to sustain a garden indoors has evolved into one of the most productive industries of our time. This particular market appeals to societies all over the globe due to the benefits that can be achieved through successful practice. Innovation and technologies have surpassed old techniques to develop a plane of new methods, products and discoveries that enable complete crop control. A previous article verified how bananas and sugar cane were easily produced indoors in a controlled climatic laboratory that mimicked the natural habitat of these crops, despite the fact that beyond the walls of this particular indoor plantation the environment was everything opposite of what the crop favors for ideal conditions. The California Academy of Sciences in San Francisco’s Golden Gate Park exhibits a similar feat, however, on a slightly larger scale. The creators have combined four different levels of horticultural splendor that represent different regions of the tropical world within the confines of a 90 foot diameter domed greenhouse.

Utilizing state-of-the-art environmental control technology, regions of Borneo, Madagascar, Costa Rica and the Amazon rainforests have been replicated on a completely authenticated display in a series of vertical levels that allows visitors to circumnavigate the glass sphere and experience a different region on each level. Actively scanning the area and absorbing all of the eye-candied elements, the indoor gardening junkie inside me immediately noticed the impressive banks of high intensity lighting fixtures strategically placed in various locations outside and inside the exhibit to support the array of life. The vertical style reflectors directed copious concentrations of artificial light from enhanced metal halide lamps downwards, fueling the plethora of aquatics, flora and fauna that occupy the area. Outside the dome, live coral reefs surrounded the perimeters of the rainforest exhibit thriving off banks of broad spectrum grow lights able to penetrate through the depths of the water with the specialty PAR ratio wavelengths the lamps possess. The sheen of colors revealed from the variety of sea life was vibrant and neon-fluorescent in appearance from the intense grow lights hovering above the surface of the water. Starfish, coral, sea kelp and other anemones basked under the synthetic sunrays absorbing energy that allows for productive growth.

The sheer size of this exhibit was remarkable from the moment an individual steps inside. Upon entering the dome everyone is required to pass through a safety corridor that allows people to enter the sanctuary without any inside life escaping. This is basically a vacuum sealed room that connects the tropical climate inside the glass orb to the museum environment directly outside the sphere. As Madalynne and I packed inside the approximately five foot by 10 foot space with other spectators, we were given basic directions on how to navigate throughout the structure. As stated before, the exhibit began at floor level where the entrance was located and spiraled up four stories to the top of the immense terrarium. An instantaneous difference in temperature and humidity was experienced once they released us from the “clean room” into the complex atmosphere of the geo dome. The smells were of the jungle, and moisture was heavy in the air. It is abundantly evident that we were not inside an ordinary greenhouse; sweet aromas of exotic flora flooded the air along with a spectacle of colors that enticed the senses and soothed the mind. As we began our way up the first level, vast amounts of butterflies in a multitude of species fluttered in all directions as if intoxicated by the perfect atmosphere. Showing little signs of fear, they easily came within reaching distance showing just as much interest in the crowds as the crowds were in observing the beautiful colors produced on their wings and bodies. Thick foliage erupted from multiple points in the forms of exotic shrubs, trees and vines, each one indigenous to a different tropical region of the world. Amphibians were both heard and seen when looking close enough into the dense canopies of lush vegetation as the brilliant colors of their skin reflect off the various shades of greenery. Free-flying birds cruised from one side of the dome to another in search of the best perching locations out of reach from the crowds, but wary of all possible activity that surrounded them. Different species of orchids were concentrated naturally on the bark of different varieties of trees that absorbed light from above, extracting moisture from the humid air, and fumigating the dome with varying perfumes as we moved closer towards them. My favorite species inside was an enormous Theobrama Cacao plant, the same known for producing the culinary miracle of chocolate, with several pods yielding from the canopy ready to be harvested. Climbing vines engulfed philodendrons; strategically placed tree trunks and other large leafed plants that performed as natural support trellises allowed for immense blooms the size of dinner plates to protrude intermittently amongst the vast networks of foliage. Witnessing the selected varietals alive and thriving within the containment of an indoor garden was truly a representation and mastered art of environmental replication.

Such great production could not be accomplished without an amazing array of photosynthetic technology that outfitted the operation. The ceiling of the rainforest provided the expectancies of equatorial natural sunlight in collaboration with enhanced metal halide lamps to create supernatural conditions only attained in specific parts of the globe, but never all at once. The design was pocketed with circular skylights allowing the bright California sun to penetrate through to the canopies, and supplemented with the special high intensity grow lights staggered in between the structures. Observing from below, I noticed that there were particular banks that remained off, and probably ignited based on the quality of the sun peering in from the outside world, never allowing vegetative and flowering production to lag. Similar to La Villette in Paris, special misting devices maintained humidity levels that the vegetation desires. Never dropping below 75 per cent humidity, and consistent temperatures of 82 to 85°F, kept the environment exact as if in the natural habitats. Without sensory perception, an individual might never know they were inside a man made structure.

Staggered off the sides of the indoor walkways around corners, were hydroponic vertical gardens that hung on various walls energized by individual lighting combinations. Carnivorous plants and tropical flowers emerged from multiple sites along the wall allowing viewers to personally see how life is sustained vertically, occupying little space with the simplicity of light and water. Peering down to the depths of the dome, a 100,000 gallon Amazonian tank flooded the bottom floor where large catfish and Red Belly Piranhas cruised swiftly through the oxygen rich solution active with aquatic vegetation. The top point of the dome directed crowds via elevator down beneath the surface of the indoor jungle to literally walk underneath the bellies of these fish and plant life allowing for an up close examination of a bottom-to-top view. It is magnificent to witness exotic fish swimming above and even further past those, seeing the tropical canopies jut out towards the center of the dome in search of the natural and synthetic light sources as to escape the thickly shaded regions.

The design of the rainforest was ideal for viewing pleasure, as everything stemmed towards the center and was perceptible from multiple angles. Aside from the immense indoor rainforest, other exhibits were featured as well. Smaller tanks were scattered throughout the museum with individual grow lights supporting the designated plant life, and some containing other forms of fauna such as chameleons, anacondas and poisonous frogs kept separate from contacting the open rainforest and visitors. Even bats, which hung in specialized tanks that resembled caves full of stalagmites and stalactites, were available for informative viewing. A two and a half acre living roof full of indigenous vegetative species covered the top of the building promoting a sustainably green aerial view, and two different aquariums totaling approximately 350,000 gallons of water housed live examples of the Philippine Coral Reef and Gulf of the Farallones National Marine Sanctuary. Leaving the museum we attained full sensory satisfaction; everything outside seemed almost dull as we were no longer surrounded by the different realms within our world. The museum offered some of the best natural examples of life in past and current existence. All we can recommend is that you, the reader, experience it for yourself.

Maximum Yield - Indoor Gardening


You guys go on about natural sun lite in a tropical rain Forrest well your forgetting a few main key points here.

The tree canopy allows mostly filted lite threw so i dont know were some of you feel rain Forrest's give more intense lite if your clearing an erea of the tree cannapy ( that being man made ) to grow and get more sun lite threw well your still not going to get direct lite on the plants all day are you so lets cut the crap on top of this your basically damaging the Forrest..

It is also well known that rain Forrest soil is not as rich as found in other areas.


Rich Rainforest Soil Is Thin

Dead plants and leaves fall in the jungle. They rot on the forest floor. This makes the top dirt very rich.

The rich dirt of the rainforest is very thin. Hard soil called clay is under the rich dirt.

Plants can not grow in the clay soil.

When people cut and burn the jungle, rain washes the rich soil away.

No plants fall and rot. The rich soil is gone forever.



Soil in the tropical rainforests is very nutrient poor. The topsoil is only one to two inches (2.5 to 5 centimeters) deep. The only reason plant life is so lush is because the plants store the nutrients in themselves rather than getting them from the soil. When plants decay, other growing plants tap the nutrients from the dead matter and reuse nutrients left over from that plant. This is why farmers can only use the rainforest soil for one or two years after they clear cut it, before all nutrients are stripped from the soil.

The reason soils are so infertile is because they are more than 100 million years old, and have taken a beating from the elements. After time, rain washes minerals out of the soil, leaving them more acidic and nutrient poor. Soil exposed to the heat and condensed sunlight turns soil into red clay. Other soils just cannot deal with minerals, and turn them into compounds useless to plants. There are some fertile patches of soil in the rainforest, but they are scattered throughout the thick vegetation.



The undergrowth in a rainforest is restricted in many areas by the lack of sunlight at ground level. This makes it possible to walk through the forest. If the leaf canopy is destroyed or thinned, the ground beneath is soon colonized by a dense, tangled growth of vines, shrubs, and small trees called a jungle. There are two types of rainforest, tropical rainforest and temperate rainforest.


The forest floor, the bottom-most layer, receives only 2% of sunlight. Only plants adapted to low light can grow in this region. Away from riverbanks, swamps, and clearings where dense undergrowth is found, the forest floor is relatively clear of vegetation because of the low sunlight penetration. It also contains decaying plant and animal matter, which disappears quickly due to the warm, humid conditions promoting rapid decay. Many forms of fungi grow here which help decay the animal and plant waste.






my little computer clock now says 8:40pm so roughly eight hours since the last post which is a good thing. i just read through five pages of some real moronic posts showing plenty of online testosterone and i am at a loss?

i can point out several posts where i politely asked that this stop. that is waste of time. so first i will ask once more that before you make one more post, stop and think and make sure it is something productive that you have say and secondly, say it in as civil a tone as you can muster.

but you don't have to either. cause i promise that the next post in this thread with any kind of a negative attitude will be the person i consider to be my number one online enemy and i will dog you every chance i get and every time i see you post. dont care if i am banned cause this is bullshit. i will call you every name in the book until we leave together. you want to pick at each other? then i will give you some current events to pick at, me.

and btw, i have no online enemies. zero. nada. nice work fellas.

peace-biteme

So what your saying is do as i say or i will make you do it ? mate 2 wrongs make no right do they.

Every one has a right to an opinion but no one has a right to put up with peoples bully boy bull shit do they and your now your making threats ? this is a free community so that means every one has a right to free speech and no one has a right to tell others how to post what they need to be posting or how they need to be posting.

Sure there should be a common decency towards each other but if some one has a swipe at you your telling me you will say thanks i want more you just made a threat towards people because you dont like whats posted
So if BH or Donald want to treat me like a mushroom i should just say more compost please no fuck that idea.



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This Thia plant was 14 ft long or over so it would stand 14 ft or taller it was grown to basically 7 ft tall then tied then the top of the plant bent and trained side way to 7 or more feet reality is some of you feel you are right and any person not conforming to your vues is targeted but the reality is a few of you still believe the cannabis growing is flat in the way of how cannabis needs to be grown reality is some need to know what there talking about before they shoot people down that believe the canna growing world is in fact round.
 
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hempy dont let them get to you so much
what they need to realise is that the plant/plants DO NOT use even close to 100% of what the suns power is , and we can get past the plants limit very easily with our lights and in FACT give the plants only the best ranges/spectrums of light where the sun has a bunch of wasted (unused by plants) spectrums
 
hi mr hempy ,,
it may seem to you i talk down to you ,
i dont mean it to come out that way if thats the case , and its not my intention at all .
ok so ill address what youve written here in the best manner i can so as not to seem condescending .

>>> hempy said ..
You guys go on about natural sun lite in a tropical rain Forrest well your forgetting a few main key points here.

The tree canopy allows mostly filted lite threw so i dont know were some of you feel rain Forrest's give more intense lite if your clearing an erea of the tree cannapy ( that being man made ) to grow and get more sun lite threw well your still not going to get direct lite on the plants all day are you so lets cut the crap on top of this your basically damaging the Forrest..


<<< donald said ..
Im not sure how much time youve spent in the tropics ,
its not all rainforest , theres a variety of climates and types of forest ,
some of it will allow cannabis to be grown with no clearing at all ,,
its low trees and sparse that allow the light to fully reach the ground .. no canopy ..
in fact ,, the rainforest isnt as vast as the more sparse forests , they are all over the tropics ..
ive done a bunch of trips to check them out ...

anyhows , theres no chance anyone would consider growing in the rainforest , for the reasons you mention ,, its too dark ..
my patch is outside the rainforest on the edges , regrowth country , which cannabis thrives in ..
the sun reaches the plants at 730 am around abouts , with no interuption from trees , this goes on until around 530 pm ,, uninterupted .. full tropical sun ..

ok so on the soil ,,
thats quite correct ,, much of the soils are leached each year due to high rainfall and the top soil is thin with an under clay ,,
however ,, cannabis doesnt need deep topsoil ,, its more of a surface rooting plant the bulk of the roots going outwards rather than down ,
perhaps to search for the nutrients ....

however where i grow this is not the case ,,
its on the side of a volcano ,
some areas are metres deep in topsoil
and the soil has improved each year by digging along the contours and catching silt run off ,, adding as much organic material as i am able and general soil maintenance .
you are right though , a lot of tropical soils are just crap ...


>>> hempy said ...
This Thia plant was 14 ft long or over so it would stand 14 ft or taller it was grown to basically 7 ft tall then tied then the top of the plant bent and trained side way to 7 or more feet reality is some of you feel you are right and any person not conforming to your vues is targeted but the reality is a few of you still believe the cannabis growing is flat in the way of how cannabis needs to be grown reality is some need to know what there talking about before they shoot people down that believe the canna growing world is in fact round..

>>>>donald said
i do admire yoour patience with the indoor sativas ,
i know what hard work it takes to keep them through to the finish ,,
i would never take that away from you hempy ..
you deserve credit for that and i dont mind giving it and saying good form ,,
you are an excellent indoor sativa grower that seems to get the best from the plant in your indoor setting ...

On the subject of tropical growing outdoors vs growing indoors ,, something ive done a lot of ,, both
and i also live in the tropics most of my life
and have visited many other tropical countries

id like to think i knew what i was talking about , if you check youll find what im saying is pretty accurate .
 
hempy dont let them get to you so much
what they need to realise is that the plant/plants DO NOT use even close to 100% of what the suns power is , and we can get past the plants limit very easily with our lights and in FACT give the plants only the best ranges/spectrums of light where the sun has a bunch of wasted (unused by plants) spectrums

hi bob ,
cannabis is not like the plants that like filtered light , its a sun lover ,,
it will take all you can give it ,
and respond accordingly .
at present you will never get past that with artificial lighting ,,

consider this ...
in your grow room with your hps , mh , whatever you use , how far from the globe can you get before the lumens drop off drastically ..??
check it out ..
the sun doesnt do that ,, the amount of lumens from the tropical sun cannot be replicated by artificial light ,
the lumens reaching the top of your 14 ft plant ,, are the same as the lumens reaching the bottom of your 14 ft plant ,
the intensity of the tropical sun is well known ,, surprised you fellas havent heard of it ...
 
hi Donald Mallard , im not here to argue and definately not saying the sun doesnt reach the bottom of our plants with full force ,,, but the fact is that even cannabis has a limit to how much of the sun it will be able to consume and we can easilly reach that limit with our artificial lighting ,,,, penitration/positioning is another story i agree
 
First off, great last post DM! Very respectful and informative.

I remember reading something about angle of light and it's importance in the growth cycle. I'll have to see if I can find the article I'd read and post it up here, but it was very interesting.

Hempy, that plant is awesome, man. The info you posted on the Academy of Sciences is very interesting and I'll have to check it out for myself soon. Thanks for reminding me about that.

I still think the sun's light emits far more available spectrum than any bulb available on the market. The angle of the sun's rays also cannot be duplicated indoors without a lot of hard work and $. I don't care if an outdoor plant isn't using 100% of the sun's light or not. The sun's light is free, for crying out loud!

MJ likes to be grown outside and if this plant is made legal once again, the best varieties will probably (hopefully) be grown outdoors in greenhouses, imho.

In fact, if I had a choice, the only way I would want to grow is under glass OUTSIDE. Despite the excellent look of that plant you posted up, hempy, I would love to see how that girl would have performed outside near the equator as a comparison. It's not that I totally disagree with you as your results speak for themselves, but it would an interesting experiment.

HB.
 

Soil in the tropical rainforests is very nutrient poor. The topsoil is only one to two inches (2.5 to 5 centimeters) deep. The only reason plant life is so lush is because the plants store the nutrients in themselves rather than getting them from the soil. When plants decay, other growing plants tap the nutrients from the dead matter and reuse nutrients left over from that plant. This is why farmers can only use the rainforest soil for one or two years after they clear cut it, before all nutrients are stripped from the soil.


I wish someone would impress this on the consciousness of some of the sugar cane and cattle farmers we get in these parts of the world. These poor fools come in and slash all the forests and before long the topsoil is gone, so they hammer it with imported chemicals and then they have their hand out for subsidies....the sugar cane farmers sponsor diabetes, cane toads, genocide of the Tweed oysters, and when they burn off their crops, everyone has to endure their black rain...:mad:....:confused:...:p
 
Not always is tropical forest soil poor. Think of the Terra Preta of the Amazon, best soil on earth pretty much and that can be a lot deaper than 5cm!

Terra preta (literally “black earth” in Portuguese) is a type of very dark, fertile anthropogenic soil found in the Amazon Basin. Terra preta owes its name to its very high charcoal content, and was indeed made by adding a mixture of charcoal, bone, and manure to the otherwise relatively infertile Amazonian soil over many years.[1] It is also known as “Amazonian dark earth” or “Indian black earth”. In Portuguese its full name is “Terra preta do índio” or “Terra preta de índio”. Terra mulata is lighter or brownish in color.[2]

Terra preta is characterized by the presence of low-temperature charcoal in high concentrations; of high quantities of pottery sherds; of organic matter such as plant residues, animal feces, fish and animal bones and other material; and of nutrients such as nitrogen (N), phosphorus (P), calcium (Ca), zinc (Zn), manganese (Mn).[3] It also shows high levels of microorganic activities and other specific characteristics within its particular ecosystem. It is less prone to nutrient leaching, which is a major problem in most rain forests. Terra preta zones are generally surrounded by terra comum, or "common soil"; these are infertile soils, mainly acrisols,[3] but also ferralsols and arenosols.[4]

Terra preta soils are of pre-Columbian nature and were created by humans between 450 BC and AD 950.[5][6] The soil's depth can reach 2 meters (7 ft). Thousands of years after its creation it has been reported to regenerate itself at the rate of 1 centimeters (0.4 in) per year[7] by the local farmers and caboclos in Brazil's Amazonian basin, who seek it for use and for sale as valuable compost.

History

Early theories


The origins of the Amazonian dark earths were not immediately clear. One idea was that they resulted from ashfall from volcanoes in the Andes, since they occur more frequently on the brows of higher terraces. Another theory considered its formation as a result of sedimentation in tertiary lakes or in recent ponds.

Anthropogenic roots

Because of their elevated charcoal content and the common presence of pottery remains, it is now widely accepted that these soils accreted near living quarters as residues from food preparation, cooking fires, animal and fish bones, broken pottery, etc, accumulated. The intentionality of the formation of Terra preta has not been demonstrated, rather it formed under kitchen middens. Areas used for growing crops around living areas are referred to as Terra mulata. Terra mulata soils are more fertile than surrounding soils but less fertile than Terra preta, and were most likely intentionally improved using charcoal.

This type of soil appeared between 450 BC and AD 950 at sites throughout the Amazon Basin.

Pre-Columbian Amazonia

The Spanish explorer Francisco de Orellana, the 16th century explorer who was the first European to traverse the Amazon River, reported densely populated regions running hundreds of kilometers along the river, suggesting population levels exceeding even those of today. These populations left no lasting monuments, possibly because they used local wood as their construction material, which would have rotted in the humid climate (stone was unavailable). While it is possible Orellana may have exaggerated the level of development among the Amazonians, their semi-nomadic descendants have the odd distinction among tribal indigenous societies of a hereditary, yet landless, aristocracy, a historical anomaly for a society without a sedentary, agrarian culture. This suggests they once were more settled and agrarian but became nomadic after the demographic collapse of the 16th and 17th century, due to European-introduced diseases, while still maintaining certain traditions. Moreover, many indigenous people adapted to a more mobile lifestyle in order to escape colonialism. This might have made the benefits of terra preta, such as its self-renewing capacity, less attractive—farmers would not have been able to employ the renewed soil as they migrated for safety. Slash-and-char might have been an adaptation to these conditions.

For 350 years after the European arrival by Vicente Yáñez Pinzón, the Portuguese portion of the basin remained an untended former food gathering and planned agricultural landscape occupied by those who survived the epidemics. There is ample evidence for complex large-scale, pre-Columbian social formations, including chiefdoms, in many areas of Amazonia (particularly the inter-fluvial regions) and even large towns and cities. For instance the pre-Columbian culture on the island of Marajo may have developed Social stratification and supported a population of 100,000 people. Amazonians may have used Terra preta to make the land suitable for the large scale agriculture needed to support large populations and complex social formations such as chiefdoms.

Location

Terra preta soils are found mainly in Amazonia, where Sombroek et al. estimate that they cover at least 0.1 to 0.3%, or 6,300 to 18,900 square kilometres (2,400 to 7,300 sq mi) of low forested Amazonia); but others estimate this surface at 10.0% or more (twice the area of Great Britain).

Plots of Terra preta exist in small plots averaging 20 hectares (49 acres), but areas of almost 900 acres (360 ha) have also been reported. They are found among various climatic, geological, and topographical situations. Their distributions either follow main water courses, from East Amazonia to the central basin, or are located on interfluvial sites (mainly of circular or lenticular shape and of a smaller size averaging some 1.4 hectares (3.5 acres), see also distribution map of Terra Preta sites in Amazon basin. The spreads of tropical forest between the savannas could be mainly—a notion with dramatic implications worldwide for agriculture and conservation.

Terra preta sites are also known in Ecuador, Peru, Guyana, in Benin, Liberia), and on the South African savannas. Similar soil was found in late Roman Britain.

Pedology

Terra preta is defined as a type of latosol, having a carbon content ranging from high to very high (more than 13–14% organic matter) in its A horizon, but without hydromorphic characteristics. Terra preta presents important variants. For instance, gardens close to dwellings received more nutrients than fields farther away. The variations in Amazonian dark earths prevent clearly determining whether all of them were intentionally created for soil improvement or whether the lightest variants are a by-product of habitation. The varied features of the dark earths throughout the Amazon Basin suggest the existence of an extensive ancient native civilization dating back 500 to 2500 years.

Terra preta's capacity to increase its own volume—thus to sequester more carbon—was first documented by pedologist William I. Woods of the University of Kansas. This remains the central mystery of Terra preta.

The processes responsible for the formation of Terra preta soils are:

1. Incorporation of wood charcoal
2. Incorporation of organic matter and of nutrients
3. Role of micro-organisms and animals in the soil

Wood charcoal

The transformation of biomass into charcoal produces a series of charcoal derivatives known as pyrogenic or black carbon, the composition of which varies from lightly charred organic matter, to soot particles rich in graphite formed by recomposition of free radicals. Here, all types of charbonated materials are called charcoal. By convention, charcoal is considered to be any natural organic matter thermically transformed with an Oxygen/Carbon (O/C) percentage less than 60[18] (smaller values have been suggested). Because of possible interactions with minerals and organic matter from the soil, it is almost impossible to identify charcoal with any certainty by determining only the proportion of O/C. The Hydrogen/Carbon percentage or molecular markers such as benzenepolycarboxylic acid, are therefore used as a second level of identification.

Early farmers added charcoal to poor soils, in the form of wood charcoal processed at low temperature and with a limited supply of oxygen (i.e., with smothered fires). Up to 9% black carbon has been measured in some Terra preta (against 0.5% in surrounding soils). Other measurements found carbon levels 70 times greater than in surrounding Ferralsols, with approximative average values of 50 mg/ha/m.

The chemical structure of charcoal in Terra preta soils is characterized with poly-condensed aromatic groups, providing prolonged biological and chemical stability that sustains the fight against microbial degradation; it also provides, after partial oxidation, the highest nutrient retention. Wood charcoal (but not that from grasses or high cellulose materials made at low temperature), thus has an internal layer of biological petroleum condensates that the bacteria consume, and that is similar to cellulose in its effects on microbial growth. Charring at high temperature loses that layer and brings little increase in soil fertility. The formation of condensed aromatic structures depends on the manufacture of charcoal. The slow oxidation of charcoal creates carboxylic groups; these increase the cations' exchange capacity in the soil. The nucleus of black carbon particles produced by the biomass highly remains aromatic even after thousands of years in the soil and presents the spectral characteristics of fresh charcoal. Around that nucleus and on the surface of the black carbon particles, there were higher proportions of forms of carboxylic and phenolic Cs spatially and structurally distinct from the particle's nucleus. Analysis of the groups of molecules provides evidences both for the oxidation of the black carbon particle itself, as well as for the adsorption of non-black carbon.

This charcoal is thus decisive for the sustainability of Terra preta. Soil amendments of Ferrasol with wood charcoal greatly increases productivity. Note that agricultural lands have lost in average 50% of their carbon due to intensive cultivation and other damage of human origin.

Fresh charcoal must first be “charged” before it can function as a biotope. Several experiments demonstrate that uncharged charcoal can bring a provisional depletion of available nutrients when first put into the soil - until its pores fill with nutrients. This is overcome by soaking the charcoal for 2 to 4 weeks in any liquid nutrient (urine, plant tea, ...).

Biochar

Biochar is low temperature charcoal produced from a biomass of wood and leafy plant materials. Amending soil with biochar has been observed to increase the activity of arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi. Tests of high porosity materials such as zeolite, activated carbon and charcoal show that microbial growth substantially improves with charcoal. It may be that small pieces of charcoal migrate within the soil, providing a habitat for bacteria that decompose the biomass in the surface ground cover. This process may have an essential role in Terra preta's self-propagation; a virtuous cycle develops as the fungus spreads from the charcoal, fixing additional carbon, stabilizing the soil with glomalin, and increasing nutrient availability for nearby plants. Many other agents contribute, from earthworms to humans as well as the charring process.

If biochar becomes widely used for soil improvement, it will involve globally significant amounts of carbon sequestration, helping remediate global warming.

Organic matter and nutrients

Charcoal's porosity brings better retention of organic matter, of water and of dissolved organic nutrients, as well as of pollutants such as pesticides and aromatic poly-cyclic hydrocarbons.

Organic matter

Charcoal's high absorption potential of organic molecules (and of water) is due to its porous structure. Terra preta's great quantity of charcoal supports a high concentration of organic matter (on average three times more than in the surrounding poor soils), up to 150 g/kg. Organic matter can be found at 1 to 2 metres (3 ft 3 in to 6 ft 7 in) deep.

Gerhard Bechtold proposes to use "Terra Preta" for soils that show, at 50 centimeters (19.7 in) depth, a minimum proportion of organic matter over 2.0-2.5%. The accumulation of organic matter in moist tropical soils is a paradox, because of optimum conditions for degradation. It is remarkable that anthrosols regenerate in spite of these tropical conditions' prevalence and their fast mineralisation rates. The stability of organic matter is mainly due to the biomass being only partially consumed.

Nutrients

Terra preta soils also show higher quantities of nutrients, and a better retention of these nutrients, than the surrounding infertile soils. The proportion of P reaches 200–400 mg/kg. The quantity of N is also higher in anthrosol, but that nutrient is immobilized because of the high proportion of C over N in the soil.

The anthrosol's availability of P, Ca, Mn, and Zn is clearly higher than the neighbouring Ferrasol. The absorption of P, K, Ca, Zn, and Cu by the plants increases when the quantity of available charcoal increases. The production of biomass for two crops (rice and Vigna unguiculata (L.) Walp.) increased by 38–45% without fertilization (P < 0.05), compared to crops on fertilized Ferrasol.

Amending with pieces of charcoal approximately 20 millimeters (0.8 in) in diameter, instead of ground charcoal, did not change the results except for manganese (Mn), for which absorption considerably increased.

Nutrient drainage is minimal in this anthrosol, despite their abundant availability, resulting in high fertility. When inorganic nutrients are applied to the soil, however, the nutrients' drainage in anthrosol exceeds that in fertilized Ferralsol.

As potential sources of nutrients, only C (via photosynthesis) and N (from biological fixation) can be produced in situ. All the other elements (P, K, Ca, Mg, etc.) must be present in the soil. In Amazonia the approvisionning in nutrients from composting in situ is excluded for natural soils heavily washed-out (Ferralsols, Acrisols, Lixisols, Arenosols, Uxisols, ...) that do not contain these elements in high concentration. In the case of Terra preta, the only possible nutrient sources are primary and secondary. The following components have been found:

1. Human and animal excrements (rich in P and N);
2. Kitchen refuse, such as animal bones and tortoise shells (rich in P and Ca);
3. Ash[disambiguation needed] residue from incomplete combustion (rich in Ca, Mg, K, P and charcoal);
4. Biomass of terrestrial plants (e.g. compost); and
5. Biomass of aquatic plants (e.g. algae).

Saturation in pH and in base is more important than in the surrounding soils.

Microorganisms and animals

Bacteria and fungi (myco-organisms) live and die within the porous media, thus increasing its carbon content.

A significant biological production of black carbon has recently been identified, especially under moist tropical conditions. It is possible that the fungus Aspergillus niger is mainly responsible.

The peregrine earthworm Pontoscolex corethrurus (Oligochaeta: Glossoscolecidae) ingests pieces of charcoal and mixes them in a finely ground form with the mineral soil. P. corethrurus is widespread in all Amazonia and notably in clearings after burning processes thanks to its tolerance of a low content of organic matter in the soil. This as an essential element in the generation of Terra preta, associated with agronomic knowledge involving layering the charcoal in thin regular layers favourable to its burying by P. corethrurus.

Some ants are repelled from fresh Terra Preta, their density of appearance is found to be low after about 10 days as compared to control soils.

Modern research on creating terra preta

Average poor tropic soils are easily enrichable to terra preta nova by the addition of crumbled charcoal and condensed smoke. Efforts to recreate these soils are being undertaken by multiple companies. Academic research efforts continue. Embrapa and other organizations in Brazil are working with Terra preta.
 
I wish someone would impress this on the consciousness of some of the sugar cane and cattle farmers we get in these parts of the world. These poor fools come in and slash all the forests and before long the topsoil is gone, so they hammer it with imported chemicals and then they have their hand out for subsidies....the sugar cane farmers sponsor diabetes, cane toads, genocide of the Tweed oysters, and when they burn off their crops, everyone has to endure their black rain...:mad:....:confused:...:p

Yep and kill of barra and much worse mate i rember years ago siting in my hotel room as before we went out to explore the night life as we were on a holiday and all we wanted was to fish up there and as i sat watching the news they reported massive barra deaths from Townsville all the way to the top and it was due to run off from the sugar cane farm expansions and run offs into the rivers and estuary's.

You drive out of brissy thinking you will see lush Forrest and what do you see pine plantations sad you drive out of port duglas expecting the same agine gone okay you have the dane tree but so much has been cleared its upsetting.

Any way my point to my posting here was yes out doors is were most would like to be growing but most cant for many a reason be it location environment and the rest but the point i wanted to point out is you can also achieve great results indoors to the only difference is well less yields as sativas can reach 6 meters you can do that well most cant indoors lol but for a long time i see indoor growers vs out door growers well both camps can grow amazing plants and complete shit to its all about how you approach it and good cannabis comes from good genetics basic principal.
 
Without seeing the same clone grown indoors and out it's hard to really say, but it does look like hempy's plant's grow less chunky and dense flowers than pure sats do outdoors in the tropics. I was looking at old pics of 70s plants grown before modern genes polluted the genepool and modern methods were used, just plants grown in the soil under the sun and they do look chunkier than hempy's to me.

I just don't see the big chunky buds indoors on hempy's plants they were getting in dirt under the sun way back then, maybe hempy has pics to prove me wrong?

Anyways, wally and hempy should grow the same thing indoors and out and that would silence this debate. I really can't see a hps and a bucket with a hole in it coming close to that good dirt and tropical sun wally has.
 

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Then again, you might be able to get close, this Oaxacan is a micro version of what that Texas geezer had in his backyard I suppose. Without having seen his plant in the flash, who knows?

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First picture look at the flowers in the corner at the top there fatter than my arm i dont know what you expect honestly there is a big difference in how sativas grow indoors to out doors i have sed this many times the front or top of the plant pictured has more to mature so dont try and tell me there not big flowers.

Sativas growing out doors mature from the top down were indoor grow sativas mature from the bottom up thats because of the intense lite but you knew this right ? that plant is 14 ft or longer and yield was big.

I have experimented on if indoor is stronger than out doors plants and it is NOT i ran the same clones indoors with a few weeks veg then flowered and put the same clones out doors giving them a complete summer to veg and then they went to flower as many were posting saying how sativas need to be vegged months to achieve there full potential agine more bull shit from people that have no clue.

People like you need to honestly not argue about this and just go off and run experiments as i have then only then will you know for sure as i do what your talking about.

Do you know why i am so passionate and some say boarder line militant on this and other topics ?.

I will tell you many people read this and other posts and believe what is posted by you or others saying you cant achieve good results indoors so your basically turning away people from growing sativas indoors that for what ever reason can not do them out doors that is basically what the result from posting saying you cant do this or that and as you can as my pictures is testament to that you can.

I started on pure sativas and have grown sativas non stop and hybrids from say 2000 but still leaning to heavy sat side of the hybrid range and pure sativas i do indicas at times but as i am a med user and grower i grow wat works for me that being sativas.

I dont need to run a indoor vs out door grow off why well i have all ready tested it long ago and you know what matters here to me is passing on real credible information and that is what i am doing if you guys seek to post different vues do so but at lest back it up with photos and real info not assumptions alone.

I dont care if i am seen as a militant as long as i know in my self i have tried hard to post real credible and helpful information regardless if it costs me my reputation i feel i have achieved my set goat and that is not to look good or feel important but to pass on information others may also find useful as i my self have found it to be that came from trial and error.
 
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I'm sure this plant wouldn't grow such thin, running buds inder the tropical sun, when you see Thais outdoors they aren't so extremely foxtailed at that, much chunkier.
 
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I'm sure this plant wouldn't grow such thin, running buds inder the tropical sun, when you see Thais outdoors they aren't so extremely foxtailed at that, much chunkier.

Thats is at the top of the 14 ft plus indoor Thia still has maturing to do and you have seen how many Thia plants grown out in the tropics sub tropics or even in a area they can be grown to know ? I have grown many.

There immature flowers any one can see that.
 
Hi all

I have grow many many Thai plants over the decades.....The pic of the plant that Hempy has posted.
Is one of the typical Thai biotype's that I have grown many time's......this biotype is one of my fav's with it's archetype Haze expression.....It looks as good if not better than plants that I have grown outside with all the TLC .

Please dont use "Thai" as a generic term to describe one strain of cannabis.

The variety of weed that came out of Thailand, Burma, Laos & Cambodia is just fucking amazing from short term to long term plants from ultra skinnny leaves to wide... feathery heads to heads that are over a meter long & as fat as your leg.

I have many repesentatives of this plant as seeds in the deep freeze. Be paitient and I will show you.
 
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