Rip van Winkle wakes up

Haze??

Hi All

I have only been researching the Cannabis scene looking for good genetics via the internet now for 2.5 years now.

I had herd of Haze but had never seen a photo of the plant untill I arrived at this forum.

As this place has the best breeders & many good growers of this exotic strain; So I figure the examples and photos of the Haze shown here must be the real deal.

What I find interesting is that during more than 35 years growing MJ in Australia I have seen many examples of this Haze plant show up in my patches from time to time.

Most of the seed that I have used over the years came from Loose Thai weed or from PNG or Indoneasia weed.

I remember in the late 70's when I was selling large quantities of Buddha Sticks every now & then I would find a few seeds of all the seeds that I grew out that originated from these Sticks many of them were typical Haze type plants or looked like standard Thai plant in structure.

Also I found that they would turn up in seeds that a had bred myself from Thai weed even though none of the parents would even look Hazey at all??
IMO the Haze strain is an old Archetype C astiva strain.

I Have always reffered to and called haze plants Featherdusters due to the wispy appearance.

I still have a few of these old seed lines in cold storage.

As to the differant type of Haze types that I have seen.

I can see 3 types that come to mind; all the plants are very tall & wispy, one is like Bamboo in structure with very long thin leaves upto 50cm long that look like freshwater crocodiles.
The other main type grew more like a creeper or more vine like with smaller leaves and the other type I only ever saw one plant was very dark purple and more robust not as feathery.

I remember one my last large grows in Tasmania in the early 90's I had 3 Haze/Featherdusrer type females show up out of about 2000 plants that I grew that season. Those plants grew from 12 ft and upto 18 ft high but only yeilded from 4 to 6 oz per plant.

The smell of these plants was someting else Woody incensce cigar box with a hint faint hint of Tiger balm.
I made some Quick Dip Iso oil out of he lot. OMG it was so strong after having a large spot you would pass out or chuck a whitey lol.

I had one featherduster growing at a mates for seed, untill the other day it was eaten by grasshoppers, I have managed to find only four seeds as the ants have scampered off with most of them Ive asked my mate to keep watering that area as they will sprout & show themselves fingers crossed.

Not to worry Im sure i can find a few more in my collection.

Regards BP.
 
just for clarification, are you saying haze is pure thai nev, or a cross of thais, but containing only thai? even if you cannot be absolutely sure, one must defer to your experience with the plant simply because of the many times you have grown her and you have the educated eyes to know what you are seeing.

one potential problem is the surfer brings the thai seeds to the baja where they are planted, after 3 or 4 generations are they still recognizable as thai or have they taken on mexican qualities? first time i noted this sort of thing was in the early 70s in hawaii. had a close pal in the military stationed there who planted a few seeds from bags coming from the mainland. pot was mex in the beginning but in a few short years it had become maui wowie in this environ? peace-biteme
 
Heres one for You: If You run clones for several years, do the plants begin to change? Plant structure, flavor, high, etc?
 
just for clarification, are you saying haze is pure thai nev, or a cross of thais, but containing only thai? even if you cannot be absolutely sure,
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This is all conjecture, but I understand the desire to collect every piece of evidence, no matter how flimsy, to try and understand the Haze.
As I've said before, the first haze I grew was probably from one of the earliest batches of seeds I got from Sam which ranged from '66 or '67 to '70. It was most similar to the best Thai's I'd had in Perth in the '70s. I'd also spent 4 months in Thailand in '76, so I knew a good Thai when I saw one. The 5 that sprouted from '69 were all different with the HzA male throwing types most similar to FH. Inbreeding these plants was, as Sam said not very effective in producing the desired result but the most common type that came from these inbred '69 seeds was similar but not as good as FH. This lead me to believe that OH was a Thai. The HzC male threw much sweeter types, more reminiscent of Columbian or Mexican but the "Haze effect" was equal in strength to HzA offspring. The closest to the FH in character was a NH cutting that Y.Sam is growing. But that type regularly pops up in the NH. As I said, inbreeding the Hazes I had tended to throw back to the FH Thai type. If you've grown NH you'll have had it.
N.
 
biteme

one potential problem is the surfer brings the thai seeds to the baja where they are planted, after 3 or 4 generations are they still recognizable as thai or have they taken on mexican qualities? first time i noted this sort of thing was in the early 70s in hawaii. had a close pal in the military stationed there who planted a few seeds from bags coming from the mainland. pot was mex in the beginning but in a few short years it had become maui wowie in this environ? peace-biteme
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while i think the comparison is a great one (thai to cali) (mex to HI),i dont believe that the plant will change completely like show mexican qualities.but will express as we say i believe differEnt phenotypes within the line because of the environment aswell as other factors such as angle of the sun /latitude/soil /ETC

id like to hears nevil's response to both thoughts in your post


dr purpur

Heres one for You: If You run clones for several years, do the plants begin to change? Plant structure, flavor, high, etc?
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ive been chatting with a fella who told me he was gifted a haze cutting from big sur thats been in the fam for 25 yrs,the incense trait sandlewood was reported to be very pronounced.

ive just ran hillbilly haze from seed which clones have been kept for atleast 21 years up in those hills

while i cant speak from experience i believe the only time a clone will be affected is if the mother (or father) has anything wrong or else you should get the same results .look at haze C male a perfect example alive and kickin form almost 25 yrs

but i have heard that old cutting dont produce the same as they once did ,again i believe momma isnt aswell as she once was .

id like to hear some thoughts aswell


1luvbigherb
 
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since you asked first dr. purpur, here are my thoughts on keeping clones for generations. we all know folks that have kept the same one around forever but ime, you need to start over with new stock sometimes if you wish to continue with a strain. something happens and they get squirrely? atm i have a critical mass that has been around two years that is starting to act up. it's hard to say why it started, most likely grower error? cm will root as easy as any plant i have seen and as a consequence, things get lazy and pretty soon we are taking cuts from cuts or from plants already under lights and that sort of shit. imo it is mainly a hybrid thing that causes it but wtf do i know? everything i state is from observation only. the oldest plant i have is a nycd going on four years.

and big herb, this mex to hawaii is another piece of my education strictly from observation but maybe we have hawaiian residents online here? my friend jimmy spent his enlistment stationed at pearl harbor and i was a bum from the midwest, usa who managed to winter there 3 years in a row in the early 70s slumming at jimmy's apartment. things were way loose back then and never any baggage checks when flying within the usa. my first winter there i flew in with a chunk off of a bale of colombian that weighed just over 5 lbs. jimmy had a full blooded hawaiian girlfriend named gena who was the one interested in plants and gardening. and i am a full blooded iowa farm boy so i was interested but too lazy to participate much. gena germed those beans and they were wildly virile. hawaiian soil is a super fertile volcanic ash in origon and the islands feature everything from tropics to snow capped mountains. any elevation is possible. gena was a local and her family was spread throughout the islands. gardening was part of their lifeline and ime they could grow just about anything. gena had an uncle with a small acreage surrounded by thousands of acres of dole pineapples, but my seeds went everywhere. even the first crop was amazing. from what i would call decent commercial lumbo seed came plants with an entirely different flavor but most important, far more punch. and some plants were allowed to make more seed to advance the line, and it did get better and i was back the following winter with something different again for seed. so what is going on here? there is a description that sort of fits; when this happens it is known acclimatization of the species and it is more than just a new pheno showing face. everything that formerly sustained this plant's life was now different and easy to see.

one final comment on haze being a plant of thai origon as i had to think on it a bit before making a statement, but if you focus on a mental picture of every landrace you have viewed, at least i would have to concur that haze indeed looks more like thai than any other plant i can recall? the visual evidence leans towards thai but another may argue that mexican also has the look. i have a problem with mexican, probably colombian too, because heavy demand for production has bastardized things to the point where you wonder if true landraces are still there? who is preserving the lines? the cartels? peace-biteme
 
Im still thinkin that a Headband clone polenated with a Nev Haze would make some pretty wild phenos. Real strong , the both of them. Im gonna do it. What Do I call it?

 
Seems my recall button is finally back''

I dont know as much about the older breeders still about w/wide as id like yet thinking of the haze plant oddly got me thinking of the haze brothers whom gave nevil this seed in the netherlands as there attempts to make it more stable or whatever wernt going to smoothly i heard, the older thai plants were very strong in the 80's especially, todays street thai sativa in thailand is considered not very good, perhaps its just the growers or bad season etc,

and named the true king of cannabis was nevil himself,! - now dont that just beat all..
 
I am pretty sure that without the influence of an external mutagen like a virus then clones don't change over time.
 
I am pretty sure that without the influence of an external mutagen like a virus then clones don't change over time.
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I'd agree with that but most plants eventually succumb to disease. It's a slow process but vitality diminishes for some reason. Keeping plants for 20 years is not uncommon Genetically however, I've never seen a change. The G13xSk line was G13's last gasp before she died. Who knows how old that plant was when I got it in the '80s. The last offspring were as good as the first. Genetic drift, it's a bit of a bogeyman really, it scares me.
N.
 
Hi guys,

Nev, you being serious about it scaring you? ( I dont think so but it is hard to read sarcasm at times).

I like your thought on how all strains will eventually sucomb to their demise. I find for me when discussing genetics on this level, as I am new to it, I have to use the human model to connect the thought on the plant level. Maybe one day through experience I can see it in my plants, but so far, I see it in my children.

My thought on the matter is that it does occur but we would have to look to the off spring. So with regard to a clone only. It would probably take more than 20 years to see the change, unless actively breeding.

The only thing I can offer on the thought is the platypus. Webbed feet, ear lobes. eye shapes, skin tone and body hair. And these are just some physical points... what about the mental level or emotional. All valid forms that may or may not effect genetic drift.

I think the internet is the first step in human beings being able to communicate without speaking i.e. using telepathy, I just dont think we have figured out how to activate the third eye receptor on a larger scale (at least for me) ... seems we are back to the HAARP thought and the use of frequency on an atomic level.

In essence we all carry the code, we all just have different sequence in varying degrees. Add environmental factors and you have drift, just how far on the molecular level is difficult to gage. Just my thought and only trying to keep the thought moving forward.

CM
 
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