Grail: The Ultimate Haze Hybrid

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You got to remember to take what reeferman says with a healthy pinch of salt, but in that case, he was correct. I paid 150US for 10 OPT seeds (I was wealthy at the time) way back in the Prarie Fire Seeds days. The plants were the most mutated mess I have ever seen, reef can't have done any selection, and the lack of vigour was a huge problem, they took 3-4 months to grow to a size where cuttings could be taken and took an age to show sex. Some of them after months grew out of the freakiness to an extent where they grew with acceptable vigour and structure, some just stayed so messed up they were a waste of space. I complained and reef told me that if only I had patience, I would see they were worth my time. Well, I did manage to grow 3 females that produced stunning end product, but yield wasn't great, and I didn't have an Oaxacan pheno female, all my females were twisted, mutated, low yielding Thai phenos, but man was the bud good, the most complex smell, taste and high I've found. Some of DJ's lines capture this quite well, Flo being the standout example, but as I said earlier, Flo also has some of the lack of vigour and low yield that plagued OPT.

I don't have any pics of my OPT grow, it was 7-8 years ago. However, this Purpurea Ticinensis seedling gives you some idea of the nature of the mutations I saw in OPT.

I must add, everything I've grown from reeferman has been garbage, so I wouldn't judge OPT from the reef version 7 years ago, we know OPT has been a key part of several amazing lines from other breeders, I'm sure Nev could work wonders with it.
 

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british_hempire said:
You got to remember to take what reeferman says with a healthy pinch of salt, but in that case, he was correct. I paid 150US for 10 OPT seeds (I was wealthy at the time) way back in the Prarie Fire Seeds days. The plants were the most mutated mess I have ever seen, reef can't have done any selection, and the lack of vigour was a huge problem, they took 3-4 months to grow to a size where cuttings could be taken and took an age to show sex. Some of them after months grew out of the freakiness to an extent where they grew with acceptable vigour and structure, some just stayed so messed up they were a waste of space. I complained and reef told me that if only I had patience, I would see they were worth my time. Well, I did manage to grow 3 females that produced stunning end product, but yield wasn't great, and I didn't have an Oaxacan pheno female, all my females were twisted, mutated, low yielding Thai phenos, but man was the bud good, the most complex smell, taste and high I've found. Some of DJ's lines capture this quite well, Flo being the standout example, but as I said earlier, Flo also has some of the lack of vigour and low yield that plagued OPT.

I don't have any pics of my OPT grow, it was 7-8 years ago. However, this Purpurea Ticinensis seedling gives you some idea of the nature of the mutations I saw in OPT.

I must add, everything I've grown from reeferman has been garbage, so I wouldn't judge OPT from the reef version 7 years ago, we know OPT has been a key part of several amazing lines from other breeders, I'm sure Nev could work wonders with it.
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Hi BH.....Good to hear someone elses report on it, Maybe Snow has managed to sort it out.

Did you grow out reefermans Black Seed ( Mex ) ??? I was given some of these and was curious about them.
 
ortega_seeker said:
British Hempire, you have clearly spoken to some people "in the know" of west coast history, do you really believe the whole mendo joe = romulan joe story? A huge part of nom de fleurs "other sacred seeds story" revolves around this and no one ever mentions the opposing romulan story that predates nom de fleurs account by several years and comes directly from someone that for certain acquired the cut directly from Romulan Joe... Jay from Next Generation; part owner of the very first seed company ever to sell romulan--(federation seeds). Romulan was not even named until late 90's and then it was by the staff at hemp bc.. who also gave the source the name romulan joe. Pretty sure rom's actual name is port alberni pine bud. The story from Jay is no where near as romantic as nom de fleurs.. just a plain ol back yard in bc and a mismash of genetics, pretty sure he has the whole account on his website. I want to believe nom de fleurs sacred seeds version of events but there are too many holes in the story imo.

ps. flo/purple thai get my thumbs down for the grail.. just not a good match imo two different ends of the sativa spectrum.
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I don't have the source material I compiled anymore so I'm going by memory, so forgive me if I can't tell you all the details to where and when my info came from. Lots of people have talked about how many bikers left Cali for Oregon or Vancouver, so it's plausible Mendo Joe was one of them. There are people I can ask about this, I know one guy who knew Mendo Joe quite well.

On the Romulan thing, if Vic High was still around, he could clear up a lot of the mystery. The reason for the Romulan name was said to be because it felt like it put dents in your head, and the Romulans in Star Trek had heads with dents in them. In the original Star Treak, the Romulans didn't, they just had some strange eye brows, the Romulans with dents in the head only appeared in The Next Generation and later series, first time the dented-head Romulans appeared on TV was in 1988 so the cut must have been named after that. I think Vic said that the original Romulan he acquired was grapey and fruity, but when the hew version turned up, it was more piney and yielded more, this is the one that was crossed to White Rhino. Given that this was during the Emery era, there is a lot of scope for people having told lies, there was a lot of that kind of thing going on around Emery's scene, the reason why there are versions of old Dutch classics still sold by Canadian companies today is because in 1996 Emery decided he's rather get locals to produce F2s of Sensi stock and sell those as originals rather than pay what Ben Dronkers was charging.

About nom de fleur, his stories I think, were a mix of fact and fiction, some of what he said was probably spot on, some of it, probably either the result of false memory or the product of imagination.

Nev has cleared up loads of unknowns in just a few short weeks, sadly other unknowns like the Romulan/Mendo Joe story, the true origins of Skunk, etc etc will remain unknowns unless someone who was really there steps forward, and I truly think if that were going to happen, it would have by now. Probably Green Merchant/Green Harvest was too successful and the truth will never be known because the people involved are either dead, incarcerated or left the scene a long time ago and ain't coming back.
 
Kangativa said:
Hi BH.....Good to hear someone elses report on it, Maybe Snow has managed to sort it out.

Did you grow out reefermans Black Seed ( Mex ) ??? I was given some of these and was curious about them.
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I only had 10 seeds of OPT so it's not a base for making much of a study of OPT.

I've not grown Black Seed, a guy over at icmag is currently running them outdoors under glass in Holland, I think he's called elmanito, I forget exactly.

Just to clarify, I've only grown a handful of reef strains, OPT, G13, Nigerian Nightmare, Burmese, Pink Kush. The G13 was garbage, no resin, no smell, vaguely tasted of oranges, extremely leafy, extremely airy, nothing like any of the G13 hybrids I've grown. The Nigerian Nightmare had the same issues, was vaguely fruity, only one flowered on 19 hours of light as reef said they did, had no vigour, waste of time and space. Burmese wasn't Burmese, I've grown the VISC Burmese and sampled Burmese from Canada, reef's was nothing like it, stringy, lanky things that weren't done after 14 weeks and were culled. Pink Kush was absolutely fantastic, like a strawberry version of Bubba. I wish I could get hold of another cut of the keeper from that pack, I know it's still around.
 
british_hempire said:
I only had 10 seeds of OPT so it's not a base for making much of a study of OPT.

I've not grown Black Seed, a guy over at icmag is currently running them outdoors under glass in Holland, I think he's called elmanito, I forget exactly.

Just to clarify, I've only grown a handful of reef strains, OPT, G13, Nigerian Nightmare, Burmese, Pink Kush. The G13 was garbage, no resin, no smell, vaguely tasted of oranges, extremely leafy, extremely airy, nothing like any of the G13 hybrids I've grown. The Nigerian Nightmare had the same issues, was vaguely fruity, only one flowered on 19 hours of light as reef said they did, had no vigour, waste of time and space. Burmese wasn't Burmese, I've grown the VISC Burmese and sampled Burmese from Canada, reef's was nothing like it, stringy, lanky things that weren't done after 14 weeks and were culled. Pink Kush was absolutely fantastic, like a strawberry version of Bubba. I wish I could get hold of another cut of the keeper from that pack, I know it's still around.
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I think I have a friend with Pink Kush.. I'll let you know.
 
british hempire, Vic did not know much more about romulan than what we have posted already between the two of us.. port alberni pine bud was from him btw. Vic had a different clone than the federation guys his was more sativa, he claimed there was two cuts.. an indica leaner, a sativa leaner and he alluded to the third that you mentioned; white rhino cross. I was associated with some of the e mery crowd back then.. no argument at all.. lots of knock offs going on. Vic also knew Rom joe and there was no mention of bikers and the mendo/bay area scene.. definately did not have all the genetics info you would expect from a breeder when vic asked him about it.

I remember when I read nom de fleurs original post thinking this all makes sense but if I had a good imagination and was a better writer I could easily have put a similar story together just from what I have read in various cannabi literature over the years... he just fudged some lines that made all the pieces fit together (or seem to anyways). If you actually have spoken to people that know "mendo joe" that is the first thing of the story that is likely true that has not been lifted out of an old grow guide/rcclarke article or magazine article. Smells as much as sams haze story imo.

flo is killer and imo a comparable breakthrough to jack herer in the amount of sativa it packs into a short flower stocky plant... as you said comes with alot of genetic baggage though likely just like OPT.
 
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Kangativa said:
Hi BH.....Good to hear someone elses report on it, Maybe Snow has managed to sort it out.

Did you grow out reefermans Black Seed ( Mex ) ??? I was given some of these and was curious about them.
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Hey Kanga,

The Maduro that is a line breeding project by RC Cola is based on FLO and worked towards the OPT phenotypes, some purple others red, very pretty plants. RC worked the lines, for larger yields while keeping the expressions of the OPT. It seems the Maduro is pretty consistent for large resinous colas, no mutants so far from the line. RC Cola has put a lot of love into this line.

Here is one phenotype of the Maduro:
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Here is one of the Oregon Purple Thai: Phenotypes
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i like how she purples up that way anything under 12 weeks is condered great i say. so buyer beware. i'm sure she's delicious to breed with
 
Man I love this thread, always loads of info waiting to be found. BH its nice to see u on the boards again. You always seem to0 be in good cheer, and always ready to divulge a wealth of knowledge on the ppl. Love ya bro. Going to break out some of the PA X yucatan mex seeds i got a while back. I grew a couple of these out a while back and found a reverse male. He pollinated itself, and make a few s1s. Been wanting to grow these out for a while now. Also just got a pack of the purple thai in a few weeks ago. Most of the darker seeds were crushed but im looking forward to what I will find in these. Thanks for all the info. Keep in touch

GFam
 
What do you look for when selecting a landrace? There is some feral weed that has grown by my house for decades, it has some trichomes, and nice colors, sometimes even albino, but I have no way of knowing if it is just hemp or not.
 
ortega_seeker said:
ps. flo/purple thai get my thumbs down for the grail.. just not a good match imo two different ends of the sativa spectrum.
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And you think this would lead to anything but pure special goodness??? Flo or F-13 would be amazing choices.

Whomever said "F-13 is a polyhybrid, and would give too many alleles to the project" ..... I have to ask. How much do you know about genetics? I don't believe that you keep upping the number of alleles. I believe it will stay consistent, with different patterns forming. I.e AA, Aa, aa

I'm not arguing with you, I am actually asking. Just from the little bit of schooling I did in the field, I don't think the number of alleles changes. Again, I could be wrong.


Nev: Have you sampled any of the wares from manali, himachal pradesh of North India?



edit: "in the field" is misleading. I should have said when in school we briefly covered the topics of this field. I don't want to try and sound smarter or more educated than I am. I hate that quality in people, so I apologize if I mislead anyone!
 
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