Fem seeds and there impact on the future of the species known as cannabis.

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We Suspect-We Don't Know

Nevil- "To me, the question left hanging in the air is, if having two sexes speeds up the rate of evolution, what role does the Y chromosome play?"

Clearly much more is needed to advance a species then a degree in yada yada yada. I agree with the old timer's assertion that cannabis and man have more
in common then you first suspect. Based on this study of man-kind (pun intended) the Y holds information that the X does not.
That being said perhaps there is a priority system when genes blend where X's go first. Maybe because of the anatomy of the Y information from that gene is less readily exchanged in the presence of the additional X in an XXY offspring.?

Perhaps it is like when a human egg is fertilized once the sperm enters the egg no other sperm can enter, except with genes.?

The male genome is so important IMO that the species developed a way to form male flowers to comtinue to pass this important information despite mans interference to eliminate most males.
 
hempy said:
Neville asked a few good and valid questions why did no one rick even try to answear them.

Muller's ratchet-(named after Hermann Joseph Muller and a mechanical device) is the process by which the genomes of an asexual population accumulate deleterious mutations in an irreversible manner.

Muller's ratchet-basically says sexual reproduction is greater than asexual reproduction rick correct ?
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hempy,,,your fogeting that the ancestors of cannabis are asexual,,,,the rachet caused the chromozones to become heteromorphic,,,

back in the day the ancesstors of cannabis were XX [asexual],,,,,,the rachet caused the Y to form
 
kylebroflovski said:
The male genome is so important IMO that the species developed a way to form male flowers to comtinue to pass this important information despite mans interference to eliminate most males.
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it wasn't because the male genome was important. if we all agree that a pure female that can't be reversed has no level Y chromosomes, and a normal female that can be reversed does have some level of Y chromosomes in her genetics, then it's clear that without the male genes, male flowers could not be produced (whether on males or on reversed females). so yes, of course the male genes are very important, without the species could not produce pollen and reproduce at all...

however from an evolutionary point of view my friend the southpark fan :D it's more that plants able to reverse or become "hermie" as people state incorrectly (become monoecious is closer to the truth), plants in low density populations or populations without many males were able to self or cross pollinate themselves or other females in an order to survive, reproducing and passing on their genes to the next generation. the fact that for probably 1000s of years now we've been separating males and females to try and grow sinsemilla only, this has meant that any female in a field full of female plants that reverses and is not noticed (say only a few male flowers appear) can pass her pollen on to 100s maybe 1000s of surrounding females. so we have selected for this trait inadvertently, when we tried to remove males. then she passes her "hermie" traits/genes onto the next generation. you can think of it the same way when you think about mosquitoes, we kill the mosquitoes that bite us, that we hear, see and feel, this gets rid of the dumb slow ones and inadvertently selects for more stealthy cunning mosquitoes that we won't notice next time. it's an evolutionary arms race.

so IMO the male traits/genes are always going to be very important as without them we'd have no reproduction, therefore it's going to be impossible to ever remove them from the gene pool... if you do you theoretically won't have a gene pool as your Ne (effective population size) will = 0. feminization or creating femmed seeds isn't removing the male genes from the gene pool people... we have to get that out of our heads.
 
X and Y

Hello! again... Not being scientific, but unless you know the Biology of plants that I wrote about earlier in this post, Properly bred plants in normal form are more likely not to have problems, than mixed gene varieties around the world. You have to remember that there are two female-specific and six male- specific DNA fragments that were genetically confirmed to originate from X and Y chromosomes, respectively. Properly made female seeds shouldn't have many problems, other than NO males to contend with, but geneticaly remain the same cause the chromosomes are still in place as they were many thousands of years ago. Jurasic Park Movie# one was a clear example of what can never happen, The dinasores are still the same Now as they were during prehistoric times. Just my opinion. I mean if you grow a plant varietie that has been bred, and bred, and bred with different crap, Why sure you will have hermi problems I assure you, but if you breed an IBL, or pure bred like an afghani, or sativa properly you should be fine with female seeds, If you buy crap you get crap, even the very most expensive seeds I have purchased developed hermies or terrible traits without me even suspecting, but it happens all the time. So properly bred female seeds can be a positive experience if you gave it a try. resinbud;)
 
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Donald Mallard said:
NO jesse as usual you are mis interpreting what ive said , ,you do that a lot i notice ..
I have been talking about researching your genetics prior to making hybrids with males x female , that is what selfing can be used for , research ..
My point was that if hempy can see a use for reversing males to research ,, how come he cant see a use for doing that to females ... /???????

or will he then be beginning to spiral out of control and our dimension may cease to exist having made some feminized seeds .. lol ...

I never disagreed about the guys we know we are all talking about ,, they are lazy and taking short cuts ,
lets face it we know hempy has a huge crush on arjan , thats what we are talking about here isnt it???
No one here is agreeing with the shoddy way some companies are conducting their breeding practices ..
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Ha mate come on now what is reversing a female to a male going to achive in a positive way like a female plant is not going to show you her worth in and after flower you know she is.

No one really has a clue that are makeing these seeds of the changes this may be couseing to the plant and what is this doing to the plants being reverset geneticly is it couseing mutations in the DNA and no ones even telling people how these seeds are made or the method used to make them for the most part.

GA was found by real research to in fact lower THC in cannabis great advancement a chemical used to reverse.

They as in some say they use hormones found in nature well cannabis threw stress turns changes to a hermi threw hormons it will produces under stress tell me turning a female plant into a male is not stressing that plant out.

What were talking about here mate is how in the first generation of s1 seed a huge loss of vigor was seen yet nil was seen in the f2 seed made by the same f1 mum breed to her f1 brother and the same f1 mum made the s1 seed.

What are the uses of turning a female into a male from were i sit nil.

What are the uses of reversing a male to a female well like neville sed to see what it will bring to the union flower type shape smell so on but it is not being used after it is reversed to breed with is it no the true male is used that was not changed.
 
englishrick said:
what questions did i miss...?
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revival.jpg
 
once you two are done flirting feel free to come back to the conversation when and if you can find something constructive and of use to add.
 
krk said:
Why the hell would you germ known hermi genes? they will not be female seeds they will be females, males and plenty of herms in there because thats what you breed...
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to show how well it will actually grow and produce (didnt think id have to explain that)

and i didnt breed the original plant , it was a freekin hermie against the far wall where i couldnt get to it or even see that it was a hermie , only good thing was that it was in front of an exhaust fan and the pollen was sucked out instead of pollinating the entire room

and just so you know , not all seeds that came from a plant pollinated by a hermie will become hermie (most maybe but not all) this i know from personal experience
 
Donald Mallard said:
I have been talking about researching your genetics prior to making hybrids with males x female.
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Wally,
Why is it you and others find it so hard to stay on topic? Do I need to remind you of the subject of the thread? Which conveniently, has nothing to do with what you've "been talking about" above. :rolleyes: I suppose this is the point you tell me, Ive once again, misunderstood what you were writing? lol.

Check it out, the title of the thread is :
Fem seeds and there impact on the future of the species known as cannabis.

Now when you want to actually post something relevent to the discussion, by all means (as Ive said before) post away. I would love to hear what you have to say on the actual subject at hand. I dont care about your excuses for why Selfing is a tool, useful or not. What does that have to do with the industry of feminized seeds as it stands? Where these seeds (feminized) are sold to the public, and the demand is so great (based off false propaganda) that its become an increasingly more popular trend. You're talking apples (as usual) and Im talking oranges. So when you want to come to the right field, I think we're all waiting to see what you have to offer.

Why do I have a feeling the actual subject will purposely be taken off subject by you and your minions once again? What is it that you cats do not want the public to know, that you go through such lengths to completely hop, skip and jump over the true nature of the this thread? It happens in every feminized seed debate. Fem central must have you people by the balls lol! Is Gypsy going to stop selling your seeds if you dont attempt to justify what he, and others (your friends) are doing to the cannabis gene pool? Something which so many of you seem to care little a bout, the future of the plant. Which is what is truly important here, not your side tracked efforts to stiffle the topic of the thread with off topic remarks.

Focus Wally, I know you can do it! Focus!
Originally posted by DarwinsBulldog

if you're worried about femmed seeds, and don't want to pay more for them, there's a simple answer... DON"T BUY THEM! 90% of seeds out there if not more will be produced in regular form as well... you have the RIGHT not to pay more for femmed seeds, but if you decide to you will have less time (wasted - for some anyway) weeding out males. and the process does require more work and time and money (though not as much as they decide to charge for them i agree). but at the end of the day it's up to the consumer, no one has a gun at their heads. if there was no demand, there'd be no supply. if there was no sheep running about, there'd be no wolves there to hunt them down.
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Darwin,
Thanks for the remarks above, which basically demonstrate similar points which have been made already in this thread. The customers are being used, lead to believe the virtues of Feminized Seed by a propaganda campaign which is designed solely to take their money. And in the process, potentially having devestating effects on the future of the cannabis plant itself. Where years of selection, for and against specific traits, are being essentially washed away. Taking the plant backwards, instead of forwards (as hempys S1 plants demonstrate).

This thread isnt about my refusal to purchase these feminized seeds, its about what this feminized seed trend has on the future of the plant. Obviously being a newer member, who has not spent nearly any significant amount of time on these boards, you do not care that your fellow man is being taken advantage of. In fact you're mocking these people, who like yourself, are newer to this industry and are completely taken advantage of. So I wouldnt expect you to demonstate any kind of consideration for how these posters, who may be seeking seed for medical reasons (let that sink in a bit) are being used. Their money taken, and offered an inferior product to those who actually do have have a truly medicinal and elite line that would benefit them and their medical needs. You call them sheep, I call them victims of a misinformation campaign which could potentially have devestating effects in the future and as Shanti said, lead to a genetic crisis!
 
Funny,Funny

What a way to start the day Laughing :D Amazing how pictures of expression are so funny, I can't believe it. Goes to show you Anger is funny, especially when your high on MW,:D:D:D resinbud,;)
 
DarwinsBulldog said:
it wasn't because the male genome was important. if we all agree that a pure female that can't be reversed has no level Y chromosomes, and a normal female that can be reversed does have some level of Y chromosomes in her genetics, then it's clear that without the male genes, male flowers could not be produced (whether on males or on reversed females). so yes, of course the male genes are very important, without the species could not produce pollen and reproduce at all...

however from an evolutionary point of view my friend the southpark fan :D it's more that plants able to reverse or become "hermie" as people state incorrectly (become monoecious is closer to the truth), plants in low density populations or populations without many males were able to self or cross pollinate themselves or other females in an order to survive, reproducing and passing on their genes to the next generation. the fact that for probably 1000s of years now we've been separating males and females to try and grow sinsemilla only, this has meant that any female in a field full of female plants that reverses and is not noticed (say only a few male flowers appear) can pass her pollen on to 100s maybe 1000s of surrounding females. so we have selected for this trait inadvertently, when we tried to remove males. then she passes her "hermie" traits/genes onto the next generation. you can think of it the same way when you think about mosquitoes, we kill the mosquitoes that bite us, that we hear, see and feel, this gets rid of the dumb slow ones and inadvertently selects for more stealthy cunning mosquitoes that we won't notice next time. it's an evolutionary arms race.

so IMO the male traits/genes are always going to be very important as without them we'd have no reproduction, therefore it's going to be impossible to ever remove them from the gene pool... if you do you theoretically won't have a gene pool as your Ne (effective population size) will = 0. feminization or creating femmed seeds isn't removing the male genes from the gene pool people... we have to get that out of our heads.
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so what i understand of this and other threads is this. correct me if i am wrong. Meany Meany years ago cannabis was a plant that grow both sex on the same plant just like hemp correct? them people seen the potential to use it for Meany different things like seeds fibers and medicine. then through Meany thousands of years of selective breeding people that grow the plant for medicine ect breed the modern day version sinsemilla without seeds. in other words no seeds as the best for use as medicines seems to be the choice of cannabis breeders. this wouldn't happen if the the plant were breed to stay as a plant that had both male females organs on the same plant and we would all be growing hemp right now full of seeds. the way i see it i have grown multi generation of s1 and not from selfed fem seeds. we didn't keep male when i first started growing as we didn't wont crops of seeds but we did keep a line going for a few year by letting a few plants hermie to make a few seeds for the next crop. a few years breeding like this what we had was pretty much hemp not quite hemp but not much better a poor strain that once was a good strain of nlxhaze that made seeds lost vigour and taste. what i would say i done was take thousands of years of breeder work and reverted it to something that they breed out meany years ago by eliminating the male population or de evolutionise a strain if that's a real word:rolleyes:. kind of like breeding humans with tails by breeding throw back freaks only to breed something back we lost because we dont need it. its would of took a long time to eliminate male and female flowers on the same plant. i have a feeling it will take a lot less time to undo the work that farmers have done for a very long time to make sensimilla. going from my first few years of keeping a line going using females only. just a little thought about your looking out of different windows and getting a different view. i have 4 window that look out to my back yard in different rooms. all have a different view and look very different but if you climbed out them all what you would get is exactly the same. no mater what view you got from looking out the window. sometimes you have to believe what you see but it doesn't mean what you see is wright. in other words just because something looks good on paper doesn't mean it is in practical. i grow el nino regular seeds from greenhouse years ago and the fems they have now aren't anywhere near what they were back then & resemble a dwarf version. take a look in threads and you will see what i mean the same applies to a lot of there strains gws and wr from my experience of growing them. i would put this down to lose of vigor from feming however they do it. also i hear Rezs strains are prone to hermi because of the way he breeds using fems. i am not saying he's strains are shit by any means but more pay over the ods for ten to hope for 1 good plant that doesn't hermie if your lucky even in his none fem strains. now dont get me wrong i think fem seeds have there uses but with a lot of limits to them one limit being progressively breeding from them to breed fem only strains line. using them as breeding parents is a last resort as far as i am concerned. if its the only way then go for it but try breeding back for a male female population if possible is best imoa. what practical have you on breeding i cant believe you say your qualified because you done the theory but no practical. a lot of things look good on paper but in practical just dont work i thought you were a smart man you should no this. hempy showed his practical on the s1 selfed seeds and f2 none fem seeds from the same mother. for me in practical the s1 shows lose of vigor. like you sead there's more than 1 way to breed fems and from breeding a line from related seeds not the same parent but the same strain loses a lot less vigor but still dose lose vigor. i grow a nlxhaze out over 4 year with a average of 4 grows a year that's about 16 generations using open pollination and what i had was a strong hemp plant imoa. not much good to anyone unless they wont seeds or fiber. true a plant will lose vigor from normal inbreeding a line but wont turn to to pretty much hemp. i though you were a open minded person wanting to preserve strains. i am thinking i was wrong about you and your just another person trying to jump the on the seed bank band wagon and show the clever theory to justify bad breeding and impress people. i dont care about what you learned in a class room about theories ect. without practical it means nothing. i wish i keep records and pics when i first started growing so i could show what 16 generation of open fem pollinating dose to a plant but i didn't and never will again because i learned from the mistake i make in practical. what i learn in theory is just that theory a guide not a answer. the strongest argument to fem seeds in preserving a strain that had no males in its original form but if selfing makes lose of vigor then that goes out the window because its not the same plant as its mother. only real reason for fem seeds is a female only crop from a open pollination to make s1 seeds or preserving a strain as a last resort because of transport ect making moving plants imposable. OK so you qualified to prove me wrong so please by all mean do so in practical not just words. your ambition is to be a big breeder in the dam so lets see if your as good as you say. show us your practical research on fem seeds and that your not just another 10 a penny pollen chucker who believes everything there told. you know if everyone believed theories the world would still be flat and everyone would be falling of the end of the world when there's accidents at sea.:rolleyes:
 
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