Fem seeds and there impact on the future of the species known as cannabis.
englishrick
New member
the classic,,,Boys and Girls
http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/86/2/211.pdf
^^in this 1 Ainsworth sorta reitterates about how cannabis is working on an X/Autosome sex determinsm system not an ActiveY as everyone here seems to think
but i think we need to look at the evoloution of sex chromozones,,,so lets look at maybe look at charlsworth....
here is something maybe from [2006],,,
Ray Ming5, Jianping Wang, Paul H. Moore and Andrew H. Paterson
http://www.amjbot.org/cgi/content/full/94/2/141#T1
below is table1 from the above paper,,,take a look
http://www.amjbot.org/cgi/content-nw/full/94/2/141/T1
http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/86/2/211.pdf
^^in this 1 Ainsworth sorta reitterates about how cannabis is working on an X/Autosome sex determinsm system not an ActiveY as everyone here seems to think
but i think we need to look at the evoloution of sex chromozones,,,so lets look at maybe look at charlsworth....
here is something maybe from [2006],,,
Ray Ming5, Jianping Wang, Paul H. Moore and Andrew H. Paterson
http://www.amjbot.org/cgi/content/full/94/2/141#T1
below is table1 from the above paper,,,take a look
http://www.amjbot.org/cgi/content-nw/full/94/2/141/T1
K
kopite
Guest
dead horse... the Y is active. The autsomes take some control when stress is involved (which bit of them finding the Y do you not understand, I have asked you this at the other site)
round and round we go ffs whos playing Bill Murray...
Sex determination and sex differentiation are different (perhaps its more a hormonal stress related response)
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englishrick
New member
Sex determination is defined by a phenotype in 1 place at 1 time,, is it not?
K
kopite
Guest
No determination is by genes
englishrick
New member
but the niche determines the final expreshion,,,the genotype + the enviroment = Phenotype ,,,,no?,,,,we modifi the expreshion masivly with chemicals,,,
i see sexualy bipotancy depending on enviroment
if im wrong im wrong,,,,il accept defete,,
i see sexualy bipotancy depending on enviroment
if im wrong im wrong,,,,il accept defete,,
K
kopite
Guest
you CANNOT change the genes.... ONLY the expression the GENES need to be there...
englishrick
New member
yeh,,,an imo the genes are pointing in the same direction as Ainsworth,,,
do you think this paper blows Ainsworth out of the water or something?,,,
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12835935
i love our convosations,,
btw,,if anyone wants this paper just ask the paper fairy,,an she will leave it under your pillow,,
do you think this paper blows Ainsworth out of the water or something?,,,
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12835935
i love our convosations,,
btw,,if anyone wants this paper just ask the paper fairy,,an she will leave it under your pillow,,
englishrick
New member
i just thought id add this,,,
wiskey3211 said:This is not my write up I just copy and past from the link below. my set-up was the same as below. I had $18 in the .999 silver coin and that was it. I found a old 24vdc 100mA power supply lying around the garage and used it. I did cut the coin in half so I would not have to buy 2. I also let my generator run for 8hrs straight.hope the info below helps.
http://www.quantumbalancing.com/makeyourowncs.htm
Make Your Own Colloidal Silver - Multiple Methods
Basic and Powerful method by Steve Cox
I discovered a simple addition that makes everything else fall neatly into place for the Alternative Medicine Research Foundation's original colloidal silver generator design: Saran Wrap!
Placing Saran Wrap over the top of the container and poking it down into the water in the middle prevents over-spray from reaching the clips and has the additional benefit of limiting open air contact during the electrolytic process. With the addition of this final piece to the puzzle, I believe we have a completed colloidal silver generator design that guarantees consistent results with no undesired side-processes occurring.
A picture is worth a thousand words, as they say, so I have prepared five images, labeled with explanations and instructions as necessary. I think you'll find the overview pictures below especially useful in making all this clear to the potential builder.
I bought two 1 oz. solid silver bars from a coin dealer. They are marked Nemo's and stamped .999 FINE SILVER. These bars cost me about $13 for both, including tax.Here's how I bent the silver bars so they would fit on the side of the vase I use to make our colloidal silver.Here's what the silver bar looks like when it's properly bent and placed on my colloidal silver generator.
Using Saran Wrap to cover the top of the container prevents moisture from reaching the clips and thus becoming part of the electrolytic process. This simple addition assures you of pure colloidal silver.
Here's a complete overview of Steve Cox's variation of the Colloidal Silver Generator first developed by The Alternative Medicine Research Foundation.
Simple and Powerful Method by Dr. Jon Brooks
1. Buy a 6 volt DC transformer for about 5 clams. Better yet, pick up one at a flea market for fifty cents. The current doesn't matter as this method uses less than one ma. Regarding the size of the little wall transformer, Radio Shack has 300 ma. and 800 ma. The maximum current our process uses is 1/2 ma. so any will do just fine. We are beginning to receive many reports of efficacy for all kinds of problems. There is no down side risk in these concentrations. One can use four 1.5 volt flashlight batteries in series. They will last a long time.
2. Clip the connector off the end of the wire.
3. Get two alligator clips from Radio Shack for a buck.
4. Carefully separate the two wires. Strip the insulation off for about 1 inch.
5. Connect each lead to the clip.
6. You need two electrodes. Don't waste $15.00 for 1/4 oz. pieces of silver wire. Go to a any coin store and buy two Canadian Maple Leafs for about $6.50 ea. Each has 1.2 oz. of .9999 pure silver, enough to make more CS than you will ever use.
7. Buy a gallon of distilled water for about seventy cents.
8. Buy a tiny fish tank bubbler machine for about eight bucks. They will have the neoprene tubing as well. You will need about two feet.
9. Be sure the coin is squeaky clean. Clamp them to opposite sides of an 8 oz. glass of distilled water.
10. Place the tubing to the bottom of the glass.
11. Fill the glass with distilled water ONLY up to the bottom of the clips. One does not want the metal, from the clips, in contact with the water, only the coins.
12. Plug in the little transformer and oxygenation machine.
13. Run for about five hours.
14. Carefully remove the coins. There will be residue on them and you don't want that in the solution. For even more purity, use the neoprene tubing and siphon the solution into a clean glass/or plastic container. (In these parts a siphon hose is referred to as an "Arkansas credit card".)
15. Keep the CS out of sunlight in an air tight bottle.
16. Clean the coins thoroughly preparing for the next batch.
Low Voltage Colloidal Silver Generator with Mechanical Stirring
These are some of the best instructions I have seen to build a colloidal silver production vessel. I found them on a long forgotten website and they have served in good stead in my quest to produce high quality low voltage direct current (LVDC) colloidal silver. The design incorporates "Ole Bob's" concept of constant stirring. Use whatever your chosen power source is to generate the CS ie: 3 - 9 volt batteries, wall wart, etc.
Materials:
* 1 each Wide Mouth Quart Mason Jar
* 1 each Plastic Wide Mouth Lid (from a Miracle Whip jar or from Ball or Kerr)
* 1 each 0-5 milliamp DC Gauge ( good one is the Shurite #8302Z ) or multimeter if you have one
* 1 each RS ( Radio Shack ) 1.5-3.0 Volt DC Motor ( P/N 273-223 ).
* 1 each 2-3 inch piece of wire insulation stripped off of a piece of 14 gauge electrical wire
* 2 each RS 75 ohm Chassis Mount TV Coax Connectors (P/N 278-212)
* 1 each RS "D" Cell Battery Holder ( P/N 270-403A ) to power the stirring motor
* 1 each RS Mini-Volume Control Potentiometer ( P/N 271-215B ) to control the speed of the stirring motor
* 1 pkg RS 14" Jumper Leads Pkg of 10 (P/N 278-1156C) to connect everything
* 3 each 9 volt alkaline batteries ( if that's what you want to use to power it )
* 2 each .999 or .9999 12 or 14 gauge silver electrodes. Keep them at least 3/4 inch away from the bottom of the jar (vessel)
* 2 each RS 9 Volt Battery snap connectors to connect to the batteries.
Install the 2 Chassis Mount TV Coax Connectors in the lid so that the electrodes are about 1 to 1 1/4 inch apart (sort of off to one side of the top of the lid -- remember you also need room for the stirring motor).
Install the Stirring Motor in the lid ( I used hot glue gun ) so that a 2 inch or so piece of wire insulation, off of a piece of 14 gauge electrical wire, can stir freely without hitting the electrodes. It will take trial and error to determine where to place the Motor and how long to make the stirrer ( the stirrer slides conveniently right onto the shaft of the RS motor ).
You now have your version of a CS Production Vessel.
Use the Jumper leads to attach the "D" Cell battery holder with battery ( put the potentiometer in the circuit to control the speed of the stirring ) to the two connections on the stirring motor. You are now the proud owner of a working CS stirrer!!
Use more Jumper leads to attach the Power Source ( 3-9 volt batteries ) to the two electrodes. Include the 0-5 DC milliamp gauge or a multimeter into the circuit so you can read the Initial Resistance and then the final resistance when the CS is done. When you first put the Distilled Water into the vessel, the Initial Resistance should be about ½ milliamp or lower, depending on how pure your DW is. Run this setup with the stirring motor stirring the DW until the voltage is between 2.6 and 2.8 milliamps or so. It should take about 4 hours. I don't have any idea what the PPM of silver this mixture has, but it has worked wonders on many different conditions. The CS should be clear.
I am not an electrician or an engineer. I post this for informational purposes only and do not remember where it was originally posted. Use this information at your own risk!
[Four nine volt batteries can be used as well in this design. We found that utilizing the stirring device to control the current was a novel idea]
Colloidal Silver Generator II - Batteries Not Required
This AC powered colloidal silver generator II makes the ionic silver solution. AC powered generators produce colloidal silver solution with more silver particles than silver ions. So, based upon the foremost research studies, AC produced colloidal silver is supposed to be of higher quality. This unit produces a quart of the solution in 30-60 minutes depending on the voltage and amperage of the adapter.
This design is easily constructed at home for under $20, as it uses a recycled AC adapter for power. This design is simpler and more efficient than the original generator design, but not as refined as the new Colloidal Silver Generator III. The AC adapter (110V-32V/.5amp) can be easily found at garage sales, thrift shops or even in your own junk drawer. This is very economical as costly 9V batteries are not needed. This design makes a higher grade of the solution, faster, more consistently, and in larger quantities.
Historically speaking, silver has been used to treat a variety of conditions including: fungus, viral and bacterial infections and burns. It "reportedly" works by interfering with the respiration of pathogenic organisms. It is used both topically and internally; by drinking, applying to the skin, or swishing under the tongue (sublingually). Even small amounts of colloidal silver solution can kill 100% of bacteria and viruses quickly when added to samples of heavily polluted water.
Colloidal silver solution "reportedly" bolsters our immune system while dispatching single celled organisms. Because this solution is 100% lethal to pathogens, it does not create more resistant varieties like antibiotics. Applied to burns it accelerates healing and new cell growth. It can be sprayed from an atomizer on skin, or into the mouth and throat. It can also be used on infants, children and pets.
Supplies You will need to make this colloidal silver design:
* AC adapter (mine was from an old HP 540C printer 30V/.5amps). This one seems ideal, but any 110AC adapter within an output range of 24V-36V/ at .5 amp to 1 amp will work.
* distilled water
* 1 quart mason jar - two wires, coins or bars of 99.99% pure silver (sources below)
* wood or plastic stir stick
* wood glue
* two small alligator clips, from Radio Shack
* small button toggle safety switch, from Radio Shack (not shown)
* small wooden base (4" x 8" or so)
* multi tool or Swiss army knife (to cut and saw with)
* thin wooden strips (for top cross piece to hold the silver wires)
* plastic lid (as a base for Mason jar)
* large rubber band or elastic cord (to secure AC adapter to base
* Funnel to transfer the silver elixir into storage bottles
* scotchbrite pad for cleaning silver wires after each use
* an optional aquarium air pump, to agitate the solution during electrolysis.
Making the Generator:
1. Cut wooden base to fit AC adapter, and Mason jar. Drill holes to secure adapter to base
2. Cut wooden cross bar that fits top of Mason jar (1" wider than jar mouth)
3. Drill two holes one inch apart in the center of cross bar (to hold silver wires). These should be just slightly larger than diameter of silver wires.
4. Glue two small wooden pieces to opposite ends of wooden cross bar, so bar fits snugly onto top of Mason jar. (you can turn jar upside down on top of the cross bar to glue the ends so the fit will be exact).
5. With the adapter unplugged
6. Strip about 1/2 inches off of the cut wire ends.
7. Attach alligator clips to the wire ends and crimp with pliers to secure them.
8. Install safety switch and/or a small light bulb* to wire between alligator clips and the AC adapter (not shown in photos, as I use a surge protector with a built in switch and light).
9. Assemble generator as shown in the photo below:
10. Fill mason jar with distilled water 1/4" to 1/2" from the top.
11. Attach the 2 alligator clips to silver wires ends sticking up from the cross bar, and slip them through the drilled holes in the jar's wooden cross bar.
12. Plug in the AC adapter to wall outlet. You are ready to begin making colloidal silver solution.
13. Throw switch while muttering "It's alive... it's alive" like Doctor Frankenstein.
14. Set a timer for 30 minutes, stirring every 30 seconds or so with a chopstick or other non-conductive swizzle stick. This increases the production of the beneficial silver ions and reduces white scale and black silver crystals (which you don't want in the final product). Tiny fizzy bubbles will start to form after a few minutes on one pole. A flashlight beam helps to see this. After process is completed, strain mixture through a non-bleached coffee filter or cotton cloth to remove any crystals or scale. Store the elixir in a dark glass bottle in a cool place. This will keep for several months, but it is best to make small quantities and uss when fresh.
15. Wash mason jar after every use, then rinse with distilled water. Clean silver wires with scotchbrite pad to remove scale and silver crystals.
To increase the quality of your colloidal solution, you can use an aquarium air pump with a short hose to agitate the solution. Experts agree that this helps make the best quality solution.
The usual dosage is 1-2 tablespoons twice per day. Some people claim that their intestinal flora can be disrupted by colloidal silver. I haven't had a problem with this myself. But if this happens to you, it is best to swish it around the mouth and/or gargle the solution and not swallow. This allows absorption of beneficial silver ions through the mucus membranes (sublingual absorption). Eating yogurt several hours later will replace any friendly bacteria lost.
Many alternative health sources "claim" that colloidal silver offers some protection from air or water-born viruses and pathogens (such as the common cold, flu, smallpox, anthrax, S.A.R.S., etc.) and recommend increasing dosage to one to two ounces, twice per day when symptoms appear. These sources state that one must take the solution for 5-7 days before full protection to take effect.
*An online reader suggested that a small light bulb be added in line as a safely feature, to show when contact is being accidentally made.
To get pure silver:
* Canadian Maple Leaf coins - from any coin seller
* two one ounce bars of 99.99% pure silver: click here
* the best source I have found for 99.99% thick pure silver wire: click here
Colloidal Silver DC Generator III - LW's new and improved Design
by Lightman - revised 11.16.03
As each year goes by improvements in the process of making colloidal silver abound. The Colloidal Silver Generator III reflects these improvements over the Colloidal Silver Generator II.
The improvements Include:
* A 9v DC adapter / 300mA - 500mA (used to charge batteries) instead of the 36volt/.5 Amp AC adapter. The DC unit produces a greater quantity of silver ions and fewer silver particles than the AC powered unit. Researchers dissagree as to which is better: smaller but more abundant more silver particles, or more silver ions. Both occur during electroysis, but vary as to AC or DC current.
* A small aquarium pump to agitate the solution as it is being electrolicized. This is easier than stirring continuously, and radically improves the ppm.
Making the Colloidal Silver Generator III
Supplies You will need to make this new colloidal silver design:
* a DV adapter (9V/ 300mA-500mA). Available at Radio Shack for about $5. I got several for .25 cents each at a thrift shop.
* distilled water
* 1/2 quart mason jar
* two 99.99% pure silver wires , coins, or bars
* aquarium air pump (often found at thrift shops)
* two insulated alligator clips, from Radio Shack
* small wooden base (4" x 8" or so)
* saw or Swiss army knife for cutting wood strips
* wood glue for jar top
* electric drill and bit
* plastic lid (as a base for Mason jar)
* large rubber band or elastic cord (to secure DC adapter to base
* wood scraps to make jar cap/wire holder
Additional supplies
* Surge protector strip with on/off switch. So you can turn on DC .adapter and air pump at the same time.
* Funnel to transfer the silver elixir into storage bottles
* scotchbrite pad for cleaning silver wires after each use
Making the Generator
1. Cut wooden base to fit DC adapter, and Mason jar.
2. Cut wooden cross bar that fits top of Mason jar (1" wider than jar mouth)
3. Drill two holes one inch apart in the center of cross bar (to hold silver wires). These should be just slightly larger than diameter of silver wires.
4. Glue two small wooden pieces to opposite ends of wooden cross bar, so bar fits snugly onto top of Mason jar. (you can turn jar upside down on top of the cross bar to glue the ends so the fit will be exact). Note: To use silver bars or coins instead of silver wire electrodes, this design must be modified. I suggest permanantly attaching the alligator clips to the side of the wooden crossbar, with the clips pointed down (1/2" below bottom of the crossbar). In this way you can attach any silver coin or bar to the alligator clips.
5. With the adapter unplugged
6. Strip about 1/2 inch off of each of the cut wire ends.
7. Attach alligator clips to the wire ends and crimp with pliers, or solder to secure them.
8. Install safety switch and/or a small light bulb* to wire between alligator clips and the AC adapter (not shown in photos, as I use a surge protector with a built in switch and light).
9. Assemble generator as shown in the photo below. Make sure that the air pump is rubber banded to the base, or it will vibrate off. :
10. Fill mason jar with distilled water 1/4" to 1/2" from the top.
11. Attach the 2 alligator clips to silver wires ends sticking up from the cross bar, and slip them through the drilled holes in the jar's wooden cross bar.
12. Plug in the AC adapter to wall outlet. You are ready to begin making colloidal silver solution.
13. Throw switch on the surge protector while muttering "It's alive... it's alive" like Doctor Frankenstein.
14. Set a timer for three to four hours minutes.
15. Make sure that both the pump and the DC adapter are working. You can hear the pump, but might have to test the DC output with a voltage tester.
16. The bubbler enhances the quality of the silver solution and reduces white scale and black silver crystals (which you don't want in the final product). Tiny fizzy bubbles will start to form after a few minutes on one pole. A flashlight beam helps to see this.
17. After process is completed, strain mixture through a non-bleached coffee filter or cotton cloth to remove any crystals or scale. Store the elixir in a dark glass bottle in a cool place. This is reported to keep for several months, but it is best to make small quantities as needed. Fresh is best.
18. Wash mason jar, and air pump tube after every use, then rinse with distilled water. Clean silver wires with scotchbrite pad to remove scale and silver crystals, then rinse. Dry then store all components of the generator together in a dust-proof tupper or container.
englishrick
New member
i think we well answer it together,,,
"Recent extensive genetic and genomic studies on the male-specific region in these species have led to refined models (Jablonka and Lamb, 1990 ; Charlesworth, 1996 ; Charlesworth and Charlesworth, 2000 ; Charlesworth et al., 2005 ). Based on the most recent data, sex chromosome evolution might be divided into five stages (Fig. 1). (1) A male sterile or a female sterile mutation occurs on a chromosome and recombination is suppressed at this locus and its immediate neighboring region leading to initiation of the degeneration process, but the YY genotype is viable. Asparagus is a good example for this stage. (2) Suppression of recombination spreads to additional linked loci that lead to the degeneration of a small chromosomal region and the formation of a male-specific region on the primitive Y chromosome. The loss of gene content is sufficiently extensive to cause lethality of the YY genotype even though the primitive sex chromosomes still appear to be homomorphic at the cytological level. The papaya sex chromosomes are at this early stage. (3) The accumulation of transposable elements and the duplication within the male-specific region cause the expansion of DNA content on the Y chromosome. The non-recombining region spreads to the majority of the Y chromosome and further degeneration occurs. At this stage, the X and Y chromosomes are heteromorphic, and the Y chromosome is physically larger than the X chromosome. The Silene sex chromosomes possess these properties. (4) Severe degeneration of the Y chromosome causes the loss of function for most genes and this enables deletions of the non-functioning Y chromosome sequences to result in shrinking the Y chromosome in size. There are no known plant sex chromosomes at this stage, but the sex chromosomes in mammals are good examples. It is also possible that some sex chromosome systems would not have this phase of shrinking in size but would continue to expand and degenerate until stage 5 when the Y chromosome got lost. In either case, a small portion of the sex chromosomes is still recombining to keep the X and Y chromosome pair together. (5) Suppression of recombination spreads to the entire Y chromosome. Further reduction in size of the Y chromosome and complete loss of the recombining pseudo-autosomal region occur. The Y chromosome is totally lost and sex determination is controlled by X to autosome ratio. A new Y chromosome might evolve, but it would have no effect on sex determination. Sorrel, Japanese hop, Drosophila, and nematode sex chromosomes are at this stage."
H
hempy
Guest
You know in any debate you always have 2 sides to the argument the ones for it and the ones not for it.
I have heard nothing from the pro fem side telling me why using a male is bad or has there been much posted on the positives most all ready know including mother nature to what a male brings to the union of cannabis.
So lets hear the negatives of using a male.
The only person i have read that showed me the positives of use of reversal has been Neville and that was turning a male to a fem but not using it to breed from.
I have heard nothing from the pro fem side telling me why using a male is bad or has there been much posted on the positives most all ready know including mother nature to what a male brings to the union of cannabis.
So lets hear the negatives of using a male.
The only person i have read that showed me the positives of use of reversal has been Neville and that was turning a male to a fem but not using it to breed from.
D
Donald Mallard
Guest
check your pms from the other site hempy where i said exactly that to you ..
no one here is saying using a male is bad in any way whatever ,
but if you read carefully they are saying that if you breed properly you can make female seeds that are of benifit to a bunch of folks in the community ...
as well as using reversal to investigate the genetics within a given female/male further with a mind to perhaps using that female/male for a later mating of female to male cross , given the outcome of the tests .
no one here is saying using a male is bad in any way whatever ,
but if you read carefully they are saying that if you breed properly you can make female seeds that are of benifit to a bunch of folks in the community ...
as well as using reversal to investigate the genetics within a given female/male further with a mind to perhaps using that female/male for a later mating of female to male cross , given the outcome of the tests .
K
kopite
Guest
Well done you can highlight!! so can I, try to use it in a context though.... all we are managing to do here is de-rail a thread Rick. Have a read of what you have copied ie Stage 5, if it were so why are they finding that Y is still larger than X and why have they found PAR. Answers on a postcard please.
I'll let people decide for themselves.
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englishrick
New member
hay hempy...
emagine you want to maintain your own pure seedline,,,,,your gona need to incross,,,,but with the way you like to breed all your crosses would be M/F [XY] breeding,,,,,,,,,,never [XX x XX],,,,,,,so you will conatantly be using XY in every generation,,,,,this is ok!!!,,,but you run the risk of increesing genetic load and accumulating Deleterious Recessives,,,,let me explain why
1),,,its difficult to evaluate the genes of a male, you view them in male form,,,,,
sam has been reversing males into females [this is 1 improved method of selection],,,,using improved methods of evaluating P1 stock helps avoid Deleterious alleles,,,,when using silver ions for breeding we have the opertunity to evaluate polen donors mutch more thoughly than regular M/F breeding,,we see our polen donor as a female,,,thats an imorovement if you ask me
2]Genetic Load =,,,,landrace are extreemly incrossed!!,,,,but they dont show mutch inbreeding depreshion,,,this is because the genetic load has been removed,,,landace have suffician Ne to cope with the rate of mutation and natural monoceous specimines remove genetc load....but when us westerners geta hold of the landrace genetcs we force them to breed how we want them to ,,its not healthy bro,,,honestly
if people constantly keep using 1:1 matings an they only use XY to make crosses, we perpetuate Mullers Rachet very quickly!!,,,,the "degredation" of the Y continues in the line,,,this is a form of genetic load,,an progressivly it increeses,,,,wait till 1 of your lines is geneticly over-loaded and mad things start happening because you have accumulated Deleterious alleles via M/F breeding,,it can easly happen bro
emagine you want to maintain your own pure seedline,,,,,your gona need to incross,,,,but with the way you like to breed all your crosses would be M/F [XY] breeding,,,,,,,,,,never [XX x XX],,,,,,,so you will conatantly be using XY in every generation,,,,,this is ok!!!,,,but you run the risk of increesing genetic load and accumulating Deleterious Recessives,,,,let me explain why
1),,,its difficult to evaluate the genes of a male, you view them in male form,,,,,
sam has been reversing males into females [this is 1 improved method of selection],,,,using improved methods of evaluating P1 stock helps avoid Deleterious alleles,,,,when using silver ions for breeding we have the opertunity to evaluate polen donors mutch more thoughly than regular M/F breeding,,we see our polen donor as a female,,,thats an imorovement if you ask me
2]Genetic Load =,,,,landrace are extreemly incrossed!!,,,,but they dont show mutch inbreeding depreshion,,,this is because the genetic load has been removed,,,landace have suffician Ne to cope with the rate of mutation and natural monoceous specimines remove genetc load....but when us westerners geta hold of the landrace genetcs we force them to breed how we want them to ,,its not healthy bro,,,honestly
if people constantly keep using 1:1 matings an they only use XY to make crosses, we perpetuate Mullers Rachet very quickly!!,,,,the "degredation" of the Y continues in the line,,,this is a form of genetic load,,an progressivly it increeses,,,,wait till 1 of your lines is geneticly over-loaded and mad things start happening because you have accumulated Deleterious alleles via M/F breeding,,it can easly happen bro
englishrick
New member
ko,,,your fogettin that i allways agree with you,,,,and i do..
what stage do you think we are at?,,,,,i didnt say we were at stage 5,,,,,but it seems like suppreshion of recombination has happend allready and the Y has expanded,,,notice the expantion in size of the Y chromozone on the picture
what sage do you think we are at,,,,,is the Y chromozone old?
Severe degeneration of the Y chromosome causes the loss of function for most genes and this enables deletions of the non-functioning Y chromosome sequences to result in shrinking the Y chromosome in size. There are no known plant sex chromosomes at this stage, but the sex chromosomes in mammals are good examples. It is also possible that some sex chromosome systems would not have this phase of shrinking in size but would continue to expand and degenerate until stage 5 when the Y chromosome got lost. In either case, a small portion of the sex chromosomes is still recombining to keep the X and Y chromosome pair together.
,,,,and i do..what stage do you think we are at?,,,,,i didnt say we were at stage 5,,,,,but it seems like suppreshion of recombination has happend allready and the Y has expanded,,,notice the expantion in size of the Y chromozone on the picture
what sage do you think we are at,,,,,is the Y chromozone old?
Severe degeneration of the Y chromosome causes the loss of function for most genes and this enables deletions of the non-functioning Y chromosome sequences to result in shrinking the Y chromosome in size. There are no known plant sex chromosomes at this stage, but the sex chromosomes in mammals are good examples. It is also possible that some sex chromosome systems would not have this phase of shrinking in size but would continue to expand and degenerate until stage 5 when the Y chromosome got lost. In either case, a small portion of the sex chromosomes is still recombining to keep the X and Y chromosome pair together.
H
hempy
Guest
hi mate cant had my account closed only have this Mr nice account now but i feel that yes reversal is fine for testing a male as Neville sed but i don't feel its okay to do it to a female and then breed produce seed for the market to test a male to see what it will add to the selected fem is very different.
Rick i have run and made seed from pure lines and seen smoked peoples lines from old pure lines that were inbreed for years they grew fine.
In what i call pure lines the line were true breeding all seed grew out the same plant now when your talking hybrid lines i can see the value of reversing a male but i would go the way Neville did using a natural hormone to see what the male would Carrie into the fem like sent flower shape and so on but that's different from reversing a female and then breeding it to a fem.
rick all modern cannabis come from the same old world lines that were inbreed and some still have these old pure lines and inbreed them 30 years selecting only the best plants normally the strongest to make seed for the next year bit like veggy growers and these don't suffer loss of vigo like the s1 i am growing have.
rick i have inbreed lines and only saw the same vigor generation after generation i have seen plants inbreed for decades 30 years here smoked a few to and trust me there was no loss of vigor yet i ran these f1 seeds amazing i made f2s amazing agine then made s1 from the same f1 mum huge loss in vigor in 1 generation.
18 seeds i grew out not one repeat not one has the vigor as the f1 even the f2s made by the f1 and her selected f1 brother had explosive vigor like the f1s so why does the s1 not have the same vigor the f2s are still inbreed.
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englishrick
New member
are you trying say 1:1 is good stuff hempy??,,,surly not bro
H
hempy
Guest
see this plant rick inbreed six generation best fem x to the best male since 1978 its grown in a 10lt bucket indoors its over 6 ft tall and tied down to run side ways no real veg tell me its suffering vigor loss.
Males from the same line.
Rick few people out there holding lots of old school genetics growing them out each year and year after year for over 30 and 40 years open pollinate using 2 or 20 males they select as i sed the healthiest female and male from each years crop they breed make seed for next year and do it each year why is it there plants still grow huge have no loss of vigor and if you smoked it will still level you do you think just maybe the male is impotent part of maintaining the species over all health and fitness ?.
Why do old school veggy growers select the best tomato cucumber and so on and then use it for seed for next year and have for decades why is it there veggys still grow the same each year.
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englishrick
New member
see this plant rick inbreed six generation best fem x to the best male since 1978 its grown in a 10lt bucket indoors its over 6 ft tall and tied down to run side ways no real veg tell me its suffering vigor loss.
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Males from the same line.
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Rick few people out there holding lots of old school genetics growing them out each year and year after year for over 30 and 40 years open pollinate using 2 or 20 males they select as i sed the healthiest female and male from each years crop they breed make seed for next year and do it each year why is it there plants still grow huge have no loss of vigor and if you smoked it will still level you do you think just maybe the male is impotent part of maintaining the species over all health and fitness ?.
Why do old school veggy growers select the best tomato cucumber and so on and then use it for seed for next year and have for decades why is it there veggys still grow the same each year.
hempy bro,,,you must understand about loss of Genetic Variation,,,,without the apropreate Ne how do you hope to stay above the rate of mutation ?,,,,without the repair mechinisms that come with higher Ne numbers its all going pareshaped bro,,,,no?
ok,,,so call it 15 gen`s in ,,,still its not showing any loss of vigor,,,ok,,,,but what makes you think you are not picking up deleterious recessives?
the direction of selection changes as the environment changes,,,so,what was advantageous or neutral ten generations ago may be deleterious today,,,so, when you bring a landrace indoors or a hybid indoors it is possible that some of the deleterious genes that we observe in natural populations are on their way out, but selection has not yet completely removed them....
its the job of a REAL to remove anything deleterious,,,or he may as well pull his pants down and get ready for the n-generation,,,,