And this: (Nev is one of my all time heroes!)
Ooh little boy
I had that pic in my pc but I had lost it.
Thank you for posting it Smokin Moose
Ooh little boy
I had that pic in my pc but I had lost it.
Thank you for posting it Smokin Moose
b0b_b1tch1n
Banned
so how did that go if you dont mind me asking
oh and without a quote i just want to say that what was posted about Britany Spears is NOT true ,,,, she is my wife
wow this entire thread worries me , i have some of sams seeds in my fridge right now
L33t
Well-known member
Hi all
I was cruising the icmag strainguide today when I bumped on a recent comment from Sam on mns NHS..
Quote from the bottom of this page:http://www.icmag.com/modules/ICStrainguide/index.php?eop=showreport&id=225
Shanti has always been clear about MNS Skunk genetics tracing back to Sam's Skunk stock. Plus Shanti has also been clear that the Haze used by him and Nev is not his or Neville's creation...All such info is publicly available on the MNS and other sites and never did Shanti claim otherwise..
Unfortunately what I really see here is another Sam's attempt to discredit Nev's/Shanti's breeding skills and years of hard work that led to all Top quality MNS lines.
What really makes NHS and other great and popular MNS lines so special is not only the good starting genetic material used as Sam suggests in his comments..but also the great breeding skills and years of hard work from Shanti/Nev. Thats something Sam should know better than anyone!.......
Neville and Shanti owe as much to Sam , as Sam owes to all the unknown people that had worked with / preserved the genetics that his lines are based on. So unless the lines that Sam took and worked with had never been touched by human hand , he owes a lot to others just like others owe to him. Too bad these people are not named by him and don't recieve credit for all their contribution..
Personally I want to thank ALL the people that are responsible for the growing/collection/preservation/breeding of genetics that led us to all the special MNS strains of today , Nev , Shanti and Sam included.
But breeding knowledge/skills and all hard work put into MNS lines development are without doubt equally important as good starting material is..making a line that gives consistent quality results and making customers happy for so many years is not as simple as cracking a couple seeds and crossing a male to a female..It takes a lot more than that and that is something any serious breeder and seed co should know well..so I 'm surprised to keep seeing such posts from Sam when he knows very well the importance of proper selection and breeding in the final result.
Last but not least lets not not forget a seed company's ethics and practices are also important when it comes to making and keeping growers/customers happy.Having good genetics is important and yeah proofs in the seed as Shanti likes to say but MNS is here surviving the test of time and our community is growing big and strong and this is not just cause MNS has top quality products..MNS really cares for the grower and medical user and that has been more than proven.
Maybe Sam should focus more in producing strains and making them available to growers and let the growers do the strain & seed company comparisons and criticism...
I was cruising the icmag strainguide today when I bumped on a recent comment from Sam on mns NHS..
Sam_Skunkman on NHS said:
Quote from the bottom of this page:http://www.icmag.com/modules/ICStrainguide/index.php?eop=showreport&id=225
Shanti has always been clear about MNS Skunk genetics tracing back to Sam's Skunk stock. Plus Shanti has also been clear that the Haze used by him and Nev is not his or Neville's creation...All such info is publicly available on the MNS and other sites and never did Shanti claim otherwise..
Unfortunately what I really see here is another Sam's attempt to discredit Nev's/Shanti's breeding skills and years of hard work that led to all Top quality MNS lines.
What really makes NHS and other great and popular MNS lines so special is not only the good starting genetic material used as Sam suggests in his comments..but also the great breeding skills and years of hard work from Shanti/Nev. Thats something Sam should know better than anyone!.......
Neville and Shanti owe as much to Sam , as Sam owes to all the unknown people that had worked with / preserved the genetics that his lines are based on. So unless the lines that Sam took and worked with had never been touched by human hand , he owes a lot to others just like others owe to him. Too bad these people are not named by him and don't recieve credit for all their contribution..
Personally I want to thank ALL the people that are responsible for the growing/collection/preservation/breeding of genetics that led us to all the special MNS strains of today , Nev , Shanti and Sam included.
But breeding knowledge/skills and all hard work put into MNS lines development are without doubt equally important as good starting material is..making a line that gives consistent quality results and making customers happy for so many years is not as simple as cracking a couple seeds and crossing a male to a female..It takes a lot more than that and that is something any serious breeder and seed co should know well..so I 'm surprised to keep seeing such posts from Sam when he knows very well the importance of proper selection and breeding in the final result.
Last but not least lets not not forget a seed company's ethics and practices are also important when it comes to making and keeping growers/customers happy.Having good genetics is important and yeah proofs in the seed as Shanti likes to say but MNS is here surviving the test of time and our community is growing big and strong and this is not just cause MNS has top quality products..MNS really cares for the grower and medical user and that has been more than proven.
Maybe Sam should focus more in producing strains and making them available to growers and let the growers do the strain & seed company comparisons and criticism...
?
"#"
Guest
well said L33t,
spot on to say the least!.
I have never heard of one good grow/report from the beens OHxSK1 Sam released and ended up giving away.
says alot for his work?.
#
spot on to say the least!.
I have never heard of one good grow/report from the beens OHxSK1 Sam released and ended up giving away.
says alot for his work?.
#
B
bigherb
Guest
l33t
you said it all ,most agreed
i also think it shows som of his character wen his actual creation of the skunk has been questioned along wit ohaze ,
quoted sams
Original Haze that I helped develop
intriuging ,i believe this is a new line or way of wording
considering the countless contraditions ,his ohaze /my ohaze material from 76 /strains he gav the haze bros to create ohaze /haze bros haze comes from 69
#
my brotha
on the contrary
the thunk n haze skunk hav been not heavily reported but praised by those few who hav grown her out ,check IC for reports
both noted for incense and catpiss traits
1luvbigherb
you said it all ,most agreed
i also think it shows som of his character wen his actual creation of the skunk has been questioned along wit ohaze ,
quoted sams
Original Haze that I helped develop
intriuging ,i believe this is a new line or way of wording
considering the countless contraditions ,his ohaze /my ohaze material from 76 /strains he gav the haze bros to create ohaze /haze bros haze comes from 69
#
my brotha
on the contrary
the thunk n haze skunk hav been not heavily reported but praised by those few who hav grown her out ,check IC for reports
both noted for incense and catpiss traits
1luvbigherb
J
JessE
Guest
Hi L33t,
What reason would he have to do such a thing, unless he had an alterior motive? Maybe selling the genetic patent rights of these strains, which he supposidly is responsible for, to a company who plans to use these strains in a big pharmaceutical capacity? One option to consider.
Below are some excerpts from Skunkmans partner, R.C. Clarke from Marijuana Botany: An Advanced Study
Clarke (1981) wrote the following:
Does the slight recombination of a plant's genetic material by a breeder give him the right to own that organ- ism and its offspring? Despite public resistance voiced by conservation groups, the Plant Variety Protection Act of 1970 was passed and currently allows the patenting of 224 vegetable crops. New amendments could grant patent holders exclusive rights for 18 years to distribute, import, export and use for breeding purposes their newly developed strains. Similar conventions worldwide could further threaten genetic resources. Should patented varieties of Cannabis become reality it might be illegal to grow any strain other than a patented variety, especially for food or medicinal uses. Limitations could also be imposed such that only low-THC strains would be patentable. This could lead to restrictions on small-scale growing of Cannabis; commercial growers could not take the chance of stray pollinations from private plots harming a valuable seed crop. Proponents of plant patenting claim that patents will encourage the development of new varieties. In fact, patent laws encourage the spread of uniform strains devoid of the genetic diversity which allows improvements. Patent laws have also fostered intense competition between breeders and the suppression of research results which if made public could speed crop improvement. A handful of large corporations hold the vast majority of plant patents. These conditions will make it impossible for cultivators of native strains to compete with agribusiness and could lead to the further extinction of native strains now surviving on small farms in North America and Europe. (pg.4)
R.C Clarke (1981) wrote in Marijuana Botany: An Advanced Study:
At this time it seems unlikely that a plant patent would be awarded for a pure-breeding strain of drug Cannabis. In the future, however, with the legalization of cultivation, it is a certainty that corporations with the time, space, and money to produce pure and hybrid strains of Cannabis will apply for patents. Itmay be legal to grow only certain patented strains produced by large seed companies. Will this be how Government and industry combine to control the quality and quantity of "drug" Cannabis? (pg.38)
http://zone-gnostik.org/bd/Resistan...ana/MarijuanaBotanyAnAdvancedStudy-Clarke.pdf
http://www.maps.org/media/fc021704_2.html
http://cannabis.net/cannabis-seed/index.html
According to a 2005 article with Walrus Magazine:
There is no question that GW plans to enforce its patents on Sativex, which is a precisely dosed medicine. Warns Guy: “To protect our extensive investment, we have sought to identify and patent certain inventions throughout the growing, extraction and manufacturing process. My comments to Mr. Lucas were made as a friendly and, hopefully, helpful gesture as I did not wish him to invest a great amount of effort into obtaining approval for a product as a prescription medicine only to find that he did not have the freedom to operate in the first place. (Preston, pars. 1-12)
http://www.walrusmagazine.com/articles/2005.02-medicine-medical-marijuana-activist/
Additional recommended reading:
The World According to Monsanto
http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/showthread.php?t=3577
Knowing that a small handful varieties are literally the pillars in which the entire cannabis industry is built upon, if these lines are patented (by their rightful owners or charlatans alike) the possibility of Monsanto like problems facing the marijuana community becomes a very real possibility.
How many of the strains that are so famous today contain no Northern Lights? Skunk #1? Haze? White Widow? If you were to walk into the grow rooms of those who supply the coffee shops and medical facilties around the world... all of these lines could be readily found. If corporate interest own the rights to these lines, they essentially control the market. With the Monsanto link above showing the current situation other farmers growing legal genetically patented crops are facing, one does not have to imagine hard what the future may contain later down the road for us all if legalization becomes a reality.
This is one of many reasons why the truth surrounding the lines that are so famous today needs to be known. Otherwise, without anyone paying attention to these nuances we may very well be contributing to shooting ourselves in the foot. One can not predict the future, but to ignore the facts is a grave mistake.
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This subject is so enigmatic!
I just don't understand why someone in sams place would have/need such a big ego.
But its funny how he's intimidated by MNS work, I mean yeah obviously it wouldn't be the same without Sk#1 or Hz........cannabis as a whole would be much different without those building blocks.
I don't think sam will be satisfied until theres a shiny golden statue, or until every dime bag on earth has this printed on the bag: Made By Sam the Skunk Man.
Or maybe it would suffice him to have every breeder's site page open up with this message:
"I at ______ seed company dedicate everything to THE man, if it was not without Sam the Skunk Man I would be selling mufflers, and this man changed EVERYTHING, to discredit/deny the earth shattering ramifications that this god/man has made to the cannabis community, is to declare that the earth is flat."
Sincerely,
__________
But honestly to me its more like:
Who invented the chicken nugget???
Do we all love chicken nuggets???
Do you care who invented chicken nuggets???
BTW,
I think that MNS' Shit is the best strain hands down I've ever smoked in my life, like a skunk spraying you in the mouth on every hit. Very very potent shit. I DO give props where props are due but not to ego maniacs.
I just don't understand why someone in sams place would have/need such a big ego.
But its funny how he's intimidated by MNS work, I mean yeah obviously it wouldn't be the same without Sk#1 or Hz........cannabis as a whole would be much different without those building blocks.
I don't think sam will be satisfied until theres a shiny golden statue, or until every dime bag on earth has this printed on the bag: Made By Sam the Skunk Man.
Or maybe it would suffice him to have every breeder's site page open up with this message:
"I at ______ seed company dedicate everything to THE man, if it was not without Sam the Skunk Man I would be selling mufflers, and this man changed EVERYTHING, to discredit/deny the earth shattering ramifications that this god/man has made to the cannabis community, is to declare that the earth is flat."
Sincerely,
__________
But honestly to me its more like:
Who invented the chicken nugget???
Do we all love chicken nuggets???
Do you care who invented chicken nuggets???
BTW,
I think that MNS' Shit is the best strain hands down I've ever smoked in my life, like a skunk spraying you in the mouth on every hit. Very very potent shit. I DO give props where props are due but not to ego maniacs.
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I think your missing the fact that you expect the people in charge to be logical and rational.
They are neither
It does make no sense, the question people should start asking is does the common everyday man think that:
This proposed measure.......
A. doesnt make sense,
B. doesnt care, or
C. agrees that it does indeed make sense.
Something tells me that group A is becoming the minority, while groups B and C make it easier for powers that be to implement such draconian measures.
As crazy as the suggested measure sounds in can very easily be implemented by just giving monkey B a toy and monkey C a treat.
Oh what the world would be without sarcasm.
But to answer your question for jesse,
The fact is that theyre going to specifically put something in the genes of cannabis that could be easily identifiable by scientific means that separates their patented cannabis from all other cannabis.
So yes again people are left with the question of
"so this pot is legal while all this other pot isnt?, and its only legal because ______ corp. engineered their cannabis to be different?"
"But why?"
"Fuck it, too much thinking, alright cheetos!"
The thing that really scares me is that there will be no way to implement this unless some major changes took place. I just wish the world would chill.
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Round-Up ready cannabis here we come!
gertbfrow I agree Sam's has been a major contributer to modern cannabis genetics, but he isn't half chuffed with himself, even his Pseudonym is a constant reminder that he is the skunkman. Why don't we start calling Shanti the widow man
gertbfrow I agree Sam's has been a major contributer to modern cannabis genetics, but he isn't half chuffed with himself, even his Pseudonym is a constant reminder that he is the skunkman. Why don't we start calling Shanti the widow man
Skunkha
New member
economic fertilizer
Hey Jesse and all,
this was what got me interested in this thread initially since academically studying Monsanto, DuPont, Syngenta in relation to IP (intellectual property) of plant traits. I did not watch the clips Jesse has on the Monsanto thread yet as the "popular press" deals with issues differently than either the courts or classrooms.
Sam confuses me sometimes as how he projects his image: sometimes he plays the 'cannabis hero' role while at other times he seems the ruthless business man. He wants the success of Bill Gates while at the same time to be admired like Steve Jobs (I hope this makes sense).
as to Sam's cooperation with narcos: the scope and scale of involvement seems fuzzy and hard to confirm exactly what role he played.
as to what Sam's beef with Neville seems clear enough: Neville sold strains to Dronkers while Sam sold the same ones to GW leaving questions of "property rights" for when cannabis normalized.
Hey Jesse and all,
this was what got me interested in this thread initially since academically studying Monsanto, DuPont, Syngenta in relation to IP (intellectual property) of plant traits. I did not watch the clips Jesse has on the Monsanto thread yet as the "popular press" deals with issues differently than either the courts or classrooms.
Sam confuses me sometimes as how he projects his image: sometimes he plays the 'cannabis hero' role while at other times he seems the ruthless business man. He wants the success of Bill Gates while at the same time to be admired like Steve Jobs (I hope this makes sense).
as to Sam's cooperation with narcos: the scope and scale of involvement seems fuzzy and hard to confirm exactly what role he played.
as to what Sam's beef with Neville seems clear enough: Neville sold strains to Dronkers while Sam sold the same ones to GW leaving questions of "property rights" for when cannabis normalized.
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J
JessE
Guest
Hi all 
Good to see you about Skunkha, I would be inclined to believe the exact details are a matter of debate depending on who you speak with. Like with many similar issues within the industry. Perhaps a resolution is ultimately reached in the future?
This and surrounding issues are of great significance ultimately, though the smoke screen of propaganda, misinformation and half truths continues to cloud the waters to this day.
Good to see you about Skunkha, I would be inclined to believe the exact details are a matter of debate depending on who you speak with. Like with many similar issues within the industry. Perhaps a resolution is ultimately reached in the future?
This and surrounding issues are of great significance ultimately, though the smoke screen of propaganda, misinformation and half truths continues to cloud the waters to this day.
Skunkha
New member
simmering issues
Hey Jesse,
Yeah, we don't know true details, and, I for one, won't take only Sam's word on the dispute. I had the feeling he was "fleshing out arguments" on message boards or "baiting" Neville to join the discussion somehow.
Sam has done a lot but no person can do it all. Neville and Shanti obviously "have the eye" when it comes to development of the genetics.
its been over a year since I researched trait IP and am very rusty on the issue ... many, many other "fish to fry"
Hey Jesse,
Yeah, we don't know true details, and, I for one, won't take only Sam's word on the dispute. I had the feeling he was "fleshing out arguments" on message boards or "baiting" Neville to join the discussion somehow.
Sam has done a lot but no person can do it all. Neville and Shanti obviously "have the eye" when it comes to development of the genetics.
its been over a year since I researched trait IP and am very rusty on the issue ... many, many other "fish to fry"
J
JessE
Guest
Skunk,
As is probably the experience of a few here at MNS who have been around the forums for years now, I can remember a significant time period (mind you cannabis forums, the internet are not exactly antiquities) where Nevil's true contributions to the cannabis community were brushed under the rug, not spoken of and even diminished by Skunkman and company who took full advantage (and still do) of the propaganda power in which these forums (and other media) are used by many in order to market their wares.
A great example of how the public is mislead would be rubbish stories from Skunkman, which are published in magazines etc. where tens of thousands of people read them, and bite everything published hook, line and sinker. Despite the fact these stories from Skunkman have holes in them big enough to drive semi's through. These stories of course paint Skunkman as the cannabis mesiah, despite the fact there is plenty of information to indicate there is a much more broader context of actuality than his narrow point of view. And in the process the public is mislead, purposely, and the true facts are lost in the propaganda machine of business. What really can make you stop and think is the fact some of these propaganda machines know full well there is another side to the coin, a very valid side, yet go along with the rig anyway!
If it was just ego on the line, that would be one thing. Unfortunately there is much more at stake, especially in light of the fact the Bitter Petrols, Original Gangsters and M16s of the world are all in fact hybrids derived from lines Skunkman and company would like everyone to believe are in fact their responsibility. And it doesnt take very long to see how that benefits these individuals in the long run and how that could affect the "community" later.
As is probably the experience of a few here at MNS who have been around the forums for years now, I can remember a significant time period (mind you cannabis forums, the internet are not exactly antiquities) where Nevil's true contributions to the cannabis community were brushed under the rug, not spoken of and even diminished by Skunkman and company who took full advantage (and still do) of the propaganda power in which these forums (and other media) are used by many in order to market their wares.
A great example of how the public is mislead would be rubbish stories from Skunkman, which are published in magazines etc. where tens of thousands of people read them, and bite everything published hook, line and sinker. Despite the fact these stories from Skunkman have holes in them big enough to drive semi's through. These stories of course paint Skunkman as the cannabis mesiah, despite the fact there is plenty of information to indicate there is a much more broader context of actuality than his narrow point of view. And in the process the public is mislead, purposely, and the true facts are lost in the propaganda machine of business. What really can make you stop and think is the fact some of these propaganda machines know full well there is another side to the coin, a very valid side, yet go along with the rig anyway!
If it was just ego on the line, that would be one thing. Unfortunately there is much more at stake, especially in light of the fact the Bitter Petrols, Original Gangsters and M16s of the world are all in fact hybrids derived from lines Skunkman and company would like everyone to believe are in fact their responsibility. And it doesnt take very long to see how that benefits these individuals in the long run and how that could affect the "community" later.
Bean Cracker
Member
Unfortunately, you're right.
I've found this thread quite interesting and am glad to see there are others that have similar thoughts to those of my own.
I recently had a conversation with a buddy regarding some issues addressed in this thread and he accused me of being a conspiracy theorist. Maybe I overthink things at times, but I would rather do that than buy things hook, line and sinker.
Great thread!
Then the opportunity for you to write the book on the very subject is wide open. I know everyone here really loves your articles but you should put it all together. Maybe something like "The true story of the cannabis seed industry". Documenting all the stories and players with actual interviews would be hella cool! Starting with the stories of the origin of haze to the actual origin strains (NL,SK,ect) right up to the dutch hyrbid craze up to today. If you could coax Neville out of hiding for an exclusive that would be a guaranteed best seller.
J
JessE
Guest
Then the opportunity for you to write the book on the very subject is wide open. I know everyone here really loves your articles but you should put it all together. Maybe something like "The true story of the cannabis seed industry". Documenting all the stories and players with actual interviews would be hella cool! Starting with the stories of the origin of haze to the actual origin strains (NL,SK,ect) right up to the dutch hyrbid craze up to today. If you could coax Neville out of hiding for an exclusive that would be a guaranteed best seller.
Hey Gert
Always nice to hear from you brother, trust you're fine in this world? Nearly a decade ago I found a small reader submitted sketch in the back of a High Times magazine that simply read "Overgrow.com." Upon logging on to the website, I found a plethora of information from many passionate members in the community and all around it was a very exciting discovery. Overgrow.com was a large community then, but it actually grew into a monster of a forum and I eventually moved on to Cannabis World which seemed like it was a little more laid back than the widely popular OG.
I remember what initially caught my interest from Shanti was the fact he wasnt feeding a line of BS to his customers in order to make a sale. Which stood in stark contrast to some of the other "breeders" with sub forums at the website. The rest is pretty much history from there, but quite an interesting history without question for those with a passion for the plant. One can never be sure what the future holds, but I suspect MNS will be there still leading the way and I believe we're all privledged to have a true professional working in the industry like Shanti.
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Matt Rize
New member
The situation of medical marijuana in California is a nightmare for companies like GW Pharmaceuticals.You can buy for $150 a medical card after a visit of physician who prescribes you a recipe and you can grow your own medicine at home.
A patient can not wait for several years until there is a medicine on the market which might work for him/her and the average 5% THC he is talking about is from hashish from Morocco, but this hash has a higher % of CBD in it.
The bright future of the drug is in everybody's garden and not in the greenhouses of Hortapharm & GW Pharmaceuticals.
Thanks to breeders like Shanti & some others we have access to good genetics, so why must we dependent on companies like GW Pharmaceuticals.When you have found a strain which gives you great relieves than you have the right to grow it by yourself or with help from someone else perhaps if you cant grow your own like the situation you have in California.(perhaps not in every county)
Namaste
I just wanted to bump this post. Forget big pharm, forget the drama, grow your own medicine. High THC or High CBD varieties are abundant. Thanks for the info everyone.
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supercazzola
New member
Um, sorry for the bump I but can't let this pass unchallenged. Untrue. By '89 we here on the West coast of North America a least had ready access to genetics easily comparable to Skunk #1. In fact in many ways the choices available then (although '89 is getting late in the game by perhaps about 10 years) were better, frequently still being locally unworked lines from bagseeds from the source- farmers. These cultivars- and that's what they were- such as the original RKS, were the result of decades, centuries (millenia? who knows really?) of bulk open pollinated selection by farmers who knew their shit in their own way. These lines when left alone and uncrossed would breed true within a phenotypical variation that is all but unthinkable today. We took these cultivars and crossed them and were very pleased with the results because they were as potent as the parents and frequently exhibited heterotic vigour. We thought we were geniuses- our crosses were in some ways superior to their bagseed parents!
Except.
What we didn't know was that those early heterotic crosses between choice inbred cultivars were about as good as it would ever get. Once you've done the first generation crosses between those old cultivars it's mostly downhill from there. The progeny of those crosses are the famed and dreaded 'unstable polyhybrids' the stuff of today's seed market. We were naive about botany and genetics and in a sense irreversibly undid the untold generations of patient selection the lines had undergone in their source countries. Sure the resulting polyhybrid crosses were frequently potent like their progenitors but in most cases the phenotypical variations inherent in small scale "breeding" made every grow an unpredictable pheno hunt.
Which brings us to where we are today with literally hundreds of putative 'varieties' (or worse called "strains") of every conceivable description, but few that will reliably deliver what the marketing hype promises. No wonder people tend to grow from cuttings now, it's the only reasonably safe way to assure any degree of product quality in these innumerable polyhybrids.