HazeC, C5, what did I miss?

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This is supposed to be so the internet says a NL#5xC but the catalouge says different, the lineage is put the opposite way round and it isn't listed in the catalouge as available to buy ;)

In 1988 we bought Haze X Northern Lights #1 F1 Hybrid seeds from Nevil. My friend started buying from Nevil late in 1985 and every year he was in business. My friend talked to Nevil a lot on the phone. Nevil said this was the first Haze he released to the public. Who knows what to believe? Believe me when I tell you that shit was crap. I think the following year he released a different Haze that was much better. Then Nevil went to Australia and my friend lost contact with him.. While I would not swear to this on a stack of Playboy magazines, the parts I made up are true!

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A common trait I see in NL is the floppy leafs. Not the curl, above or in the Haze x NL#5 F1 hybrid, they have a tendency to just hang low the long leaf NL. The clone of cheese x NL does the same at the old Sensi NL I have pics of What was NL 2 IMHO looking at the various NL accessions. I think LIfebreather has had the most exceptional NL plant i've ever seen a picture of. If you could get that plant phenotype/genetype with 0.1% deviation it would be great. I've not grown much NL but I can tell you that what LB got looks like a better plant to grow for production than the NL#5 cutting shown on the 1991 Sensi catalouge cover. If that is NL#5 it doesn't say.. But it's a NLD or short leaf indica.. How it looks and how it breeds can/could be different from my experience. SB could maybe tell us a bit about what the Widow select did with the Origional Release Dam compared to the Line he showed Nevil, how that made a decision for breeding choices based on the progeny performance and why he chose the 2 Dams. That would fascinate me hearing the guts behind the real work.
 
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The first Haze cup winner you would have to ask the Guys that were at the event but there is no 88 catalouge a revised 87 is what there is, the Haze to win the first cup was a female haze crossed to a male Early Pearl/Skunk#1./NL#5 so the descriptions read.

Aparently this was Haze 'B' Nev says in his messages that is was something he made hash from and didn't keep a clone of and regretted it.

Steve Hagar says he was smoking this at the first cups infront of Rob and Dave and they didn't have haze hash then, I don't know how truthfull any of this old school is.

It's in the catalouge and NL Haze isn't. Hope that helps.

If you look at the Mango Widow the resembelance of this plant in the top pic and the Mango widow is uncanny to me. Almost all the leafs are curled and in the same locations off the main lead. Makes me thing the mums the same and this Dad is also recessive alowing the rest to shine through


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This is supposed to be so the internet says a NL#5xC but the catalouge says different, the lineage is put the opposite way round and it isn't listed in the catalouge as available to buy ;)
Hi mate Dave, thank you for all of this. Nevil definitely made mistakes in these catalogues, he has clarified some of them on the forums. I can find many references to a 1988 catalog, so I assume there was a 1988 catalogue, it just appears that no one has uploaded it online anywhere, or if they have, I cannot find a copy of it.

I think for this thread, the focus was far more on the Nl5xHzC and NL5xHzA, or at least these are some of the lines I am most interested in, which is why I'd also responded to this thread.

Personally I can't agree with looking at a picture and claiming that they look the same. Similarities, for sure. I've not heard praise being held for Haze B, much like longball mentioned. Nevil does answer what plant it was in this catalogue on the forums, if I can find the post I'll share it.

I think you summed it up perfectly though, and Sammy has said the same to me, he is only going by what he's been told. With Nevil passed, and Sam now too, I dont think we will ever know the true story.
 
lozac123. I have a crew of forum members who are not on this site that ask the difficult question and we have extracted all the Catalouges available. Even the One in my Hometown the UK the Sun Light Stsyems with the Skunk 3. Which was the skunk 2, that was the later finishing one in the 84 catalouge of seeds. Nevil himself says he remade his Skunk 2 from no 1 in a repro.. Our UK skunk scene is very active.

This Strain you talk of which we call the origional cup winner as Sam turned up laate with skunk at the 1st as he wasn't sure he could win or his quality would be good enough. Which is our favourite. It's not what you call it it's what we call it.

I have a lot of his posts copied. I've been on this site since the day it started keeping watch.

You won't find a 88 catalouge. More likely to find holes in a mans story than that.

I don't agree with looking at a picture either I am just saying what I see now, what I can't see if you get my drift.. I've worked with plants alone a long time and have a great record with plant identification.
 
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lozac123. I have a crew of forum members who are not on this site that ask the difficult question and we have extracted all the Catalouges available. Even the One in my Hometown the UK the Sun Light Stsyems with the Skunk 3. Which was the skunk 2, that was the later finishing one in the 84 catalouge of seeds. Nevil himself says he remade his Skunk 2 from no 1 in a repro.. Our UK skunk scene is very active.

This Strain you talk of which we call the origional cup winner as Sam turned up laate with skunk at the 1st as he wasn't sure he could win or his quality would be good enough. which is our favourite. It's not what you call it it's what we call it.

I have a lot of his posts copied. I've been on this site since the day it started keeping watch.

You won't find a 88 catalouge. More likely to find holes in a mans story than that.

I don't agree with looking at a picture either I am just saying what I see now what I can't see if you get my drift.. I've worked with plants alone a long time and have a great record with plant identification.
Hey Dave, so I really don't want to create any form of argument, everyone has a set of beliefs that they have built from experiences which brought them to this conversation. I have my truths, you have yours, neither of us are wrong as the people who created these lines have unfortunately passed away.

I am more interested in the A5/ C5 cuts, as I mentioned. These are extremely famous cuts, and have not been called anything by me, I am repeating what the South Holland Crew/ keepers of Nevils original lines have explained to me, along with my own readings and research.

A5 and C5 have no skunk in them. A5 and C5 were named by the South Holland crew, and not Nevil. They technically have the male and female backwards, as it's A5/C5 it would be Haze a x Nl#5. But apparently the reason they renamed the cuts is A5 and C5 flow easier for a Dutch speaker than 5C or 5A.

Still not sure what you mean with the 1988 catalogue. Do you mean no one has a copy of it, or that it never existed? I find it strange if it never existed that Sensi have a photo of it in one of their blogs:


Out of interest, did any of your crew of forum members approach AK Bean Brains? I have been told he can do printed reproductions that look very authentic, but haven't reached out to him myself.

As for the "original cup winner" as you call it, it isn't related to haze or Nevil at all, so I am not sure why you are bringing it up in an A5/C5 thread?

Nevil on the site even states:

Sam won with his Skunk in 1988, but it was close. He entered again in '89, but that was the year I won everything right across the board. I think that they mistakenly gave one of the prises to someone else, but I didn't protest. I had won enough. Sam never entered again. You'd be inclined to think that he's holding a grudge.
N.


Take care
Lozac
 
I have never seen that catalouge. Has anyone even got any pics from inside it? I was just showing that in the catalouge the wording does't quite match the lineage that is given on the forums. This thread has now deciphered why the lables have changed. As far as the Dutch crew that did what they did, while everyone did what they did where they were doing. You didn't have to buy the seeds from Holland as they was available in the UK during this period. The british collection. That's what i'm getting at. I'm not intrested in the A or C story anymore.

If you use cup winners to breed with and so on. How's it possible? The thread title says #What did I miss.. Thank you for elaborating.

I've never even seen the 88 Seed bank catalouge it's not available online. Do you know where it can be viewed without a repro.. The only catalouge from 88 I can find online is the Marijuana seed catalouge.. I mentioned to a fellow that the 88 is missing when they asked for all the back copies in digital format. Would be intresting to see how the revised edition blended into the 88 edition. Who's narrative it fits. This has never been put online I am aware of or it would take a few moments fo find.. Any luck with finding an actual catalouge?

It seems that apart from the #5 all the plants used in the first movement of the Cups was all on the SLS catalouge.

I am activly looking for the 88 catalogue :) have been for decades

If you go by the cup winner making winners then the 88 catalouge is very interesting as the 87 and 89 show that there was no #5 that won anything it was f3 no 1 & Bigbud x Ep/skunk. Critical is extreemly good but the 'Blues' is tastier and faster..

All these cup winners float around still. Anyone got a Pic of the NL#1F3? We got pics of HPhaze and G13 and the others.

In 88 there was M37 and M3 M7. Thats when it picked up a bit IMHO and there was some varieties as well as repros..
 
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The first Haze cup winner you would have to ask the Guys that were at the event but there is no 88 catalouge a revised 87 is what there is, the Haze to win the first cup was a female haze crossed to a male Early Pearl/Skunk#1./NL#5 so the descriptions read.
That is the Silver Pearl you are taking about, an she was mentioned in the old Sensi Seeds Catalogs, as the "Mother of the Silver Haze", I grew her Back then and she was a one of a Kind...There is no more Details for the Haze, they used in there Catalogs....

I wish i still Had some silver Pearl Seeds...
 
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@Penny :
So, the strain "Haze B × EPSK1/NL5" does not exist? Yet that is what is written on the image.
And it seems that Neville had confirmed the existence of the female Haze B.
Early Pearl may well have been used in both strains, Silver Haze and Haze B × EPSK1/NL5.

If we draw a parallel with the Cuban Black Haze clone, which closely resembles the plant described in the image as Haze B × EPSK1/NL5, many old smokers on forums claim that the Cuban Black Haze clone has nothing to do with the old Silver Haze clone that is popular in the United States. Therefore, the existence of a strain with Haze B (CBH?) is very likely.
 
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A common trait I see in NL is the floppy leafs. Not the curl, above or in the Haze x NL#5 F1 hybrid, they have a tendency to just hang low the long leaf NL. The clone of cheese x NL does the same at the old Sensi NL I have pics of What was NL 2 IMHO looking at the various NL accessions. [...]
It's more than just floppy or falling leafs on the picture, like those of the Black Haze clone, they are curled leafs.
 
@Penny :
So, the strain "Haze B × EPSK1/NL5" does not exist? Yet that is what is written on the image.
And it seems that Neville had confirmed the existence of the female Haze B.
Early Pearl may well have been used in both strains, Silver Haze and Haze B × EPSK1/NL5.

What I could find out about Haze B. - Longball

while none are noted in the catalouges ,im very curious as too what haze hybrids have you created using the haze female B?

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After the first batch of '69 Haze seeds only produced 1 plant(FH- First Haze, -LB), I decided to plant the rest. This produced 5 plants A,B,C,D and E.
Plants B,D and E were females, of which B was the best. I tried all possible combinations and the best was B x C. BC was actually grown commercially alongside 5HzC1, so it was a 10/11 week plant. This fact alone indicated that HzB was a Haze Hybrid to something early. I suspect that most of BC's quality came from Dad.
I planted the rest of the old seeds. One came out. O for Omega. It was a 1970 seed. I suspected that it was only 25% Haze with one parent being Indica. It too did not really pan out.
The males were the "goods". Without those two plants, I think that all would have been lost. If I'd only kept a cutting of the first female, whose genotype was closer to male A. I'm start to get that sad feeling again.

Ah well, you can be thankful that the seeds fell into my hands, otherwise you wouldn't know what I'm talking about.
N.
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BC as a cutting may still be floating around and there may still be a few 25 year old seeds, but I wouldn't go getting my hopes up. - N. (2010)

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I made a pretty useful 4 way. E.P.xSK1 X NL5xHzC It was meant for outdoor but did pretty good indoors too. - N. (Not Haze B related but answers a question above)

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I don't recall putting out pure haze. If anyone got any off me, it would have been HzBC. This was not as good as the Hz hybrids. - N.
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That is the Silver Pearl you are taking about, an she was mentioned in the old Sensi Seeds Catalogs, as the "Mother of the Silver Haze", I grew her Back then and she was a one of a Kind...There is no more Details for the Haze, they used in there Catalogs....

I wish i still Had some silver Pearl Seeds...

Pearly Queen. Sunlight Systems. Currently growing Early Queen & I got some EQ haze.

I actually have some Early Pearl Skunk Seeds, It's a good NL i'm missing.. I think Afghan Haze and Mango Widow are my next to look into

Intrestlingly the SLS company is still going today..

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With the haze B I heard it was such a slow flowerer that Nevil had harvested seeds from it before it finished and he crossed it with ruderalis to try and tame it. According to Dwight a friend of his. Wasn’t there, don’t know just what I’ve heard.
 
With the haze B I heard it was such a slow flowerer that Nevil had harvested seeds from it before it finished and he crossed it with ruderalis to try and tame it. According to Dwight a friend of his. Wasn’t there, don’t know just what I’ve heard.

I thought that too. Nevil says that plant was called FH-First Haze. He mated it to ruderalis. He next planted the rest of the seeds and got ABCDEO.
I wasn't there either. Just going by what Nevil posted.

First Haze
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my first question for neville

while none are noted in the catalouges ,im very curious as too what haze hybrids have you created using the haze female B?

The subject of Haze keeps coming up.
I got mine from Sam the Skunkman in the 80's. I bought a couple of thousand of old stock late 60s/ 70. The first batch that I planted produced one plant, a female. It was the slowest to flower I'd ever come across and flowered for longer. I got 3 different crops of seed of it and it had still not finished. It was huge and filled a quarter of the room, it had wispy buds and when you smoked it, other people complained about the smell. It didn't have much resin and after 9 months flowering, with no end in sight, I chopped it. It seem the most impractical plant I'd ever grown. I didn't keep a cutting.

One of the males I crossed it with was Ruderalis x NL1 X NL1. I was testing a 25% Ruderalis male on the most difficult plant I'd come across to see what it would do. I used all the seed I had to find the earliest male for the next generation. I grew the females out and because it was so resinous, I made hash out of it. To this day it was the best hash I've ever smoked, and I've been privileged to have smoked the best.
I truly regret not having made a cutting of that plant. I didn't make that mistake with the 6 that followed.
I'm feeling a bit sad now, I think that I'll go and have a smoke.
I'll tell you the rest later.
N.
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After the first batch of '69 Haze seeds only produced 1 plant, I decided to plant the rest. This produced 5 plants A,B,C,D and E.
Plants B,D and E were females, of which B was the best. I tried all possible combinations and the best was B x C. BC was actually grown commercially alongside 5HzC1, so it was a 10/11 week plant. This fact alone indicated that HzB was a Haze Hybrid to something early. I suspect that most of BC's quality came from Dad.
I planted the rest of the old seeds. One came out. O for Omega. It was a 1970 seed. I suspected that it was only 25% Haze with one parent being Indica. It too did not really pan out.
The males were the "goods". Without those two plants, I think that all would have been lost. If I'd only kept a cutting of the first female(FH-First Haze), whose genotype was closer to male A. I'm start to get that sad feeling again.

Ah well, you can be thankful that the seeds fell into my hands, otherwise you wouldn't know what I'm talking about.
N.
 
Today Sensi Seeds just mention a Northern Light as the other Part of the (Silver) Haze.....seems Like they lost the Silver Pearl ...

Silver Haze Regular Seeds-Sensi Seeds

So I Wonder a little Bit, was is the different between their NL#5 x Haze and the Silver Haze they are offering....
 
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It is very possible that in the catalogue they confused the males and females.
Believing that "EPSK1/NL5" was the mother of the cross with Haze B when it was actually the father.
And the real mother of the cross was therefore Haze B, given that it was the only pure Haze female (maybe whit Haze BC?) that Neville used to sell seeds commercialy.

Edit.
 
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With the haze B I heard it was such a slow flowerer that Nevil had harvested seeds from it before it finished and he crossed it with ruderalis to try and tame it. According to Dwight a friend of his. Wasn’t there, don’t know just what I’ve heard.
I think I remember Shanti saying you could grow the long sativas back then around the edges of a room like espalier and get 2 indica crops in while it finished off.

Nevil did say he got 3 crops of seed off the B plant.. (I wonder if the seeds were different in the 3 matings) different males or different results from pollination timings.

Don't know if this was Haze B but just that type of never ending Sativa on 12/12.. The Dr 'govornian' or whatever might have been ne of these B D E Haze.. Shanti say's he liked that one best..
 
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