SSH and Mango Haze are pedigree breeds incorporating both sides of Haze A and Haze C combinations....in their breeding

Come on jack, own it man . Not looking for yourquotes or quoting word for word, it's/what's yourve said isn't that important but come on man. I even asked who would be doing better with same stock as Shanti and you replied with, everybody or anybody, again not a quote but close to mark.. ..
 
it is funny to see people so caught up in their side us vs. them like some sports fans.
they will go and riot just because their team won or lost.

maybe try to take a look at life in a different perspective than that.
not everyone is out to get you. or mns.

you take the tone like i am an enemy and i am full of evil intentions.

im just a grower sharing my experiences, good and bad.
i thought that is what this place is for.
i dont know why you seem to have an issue with that.

you claim to call out bullshit artists.
i would like to know specifically what you think is bullshit.
 
yes, sorry if i wdont put shanti on a pedestal and think he can do things any other human could not. sorry but this is plants and you take this male and that females and make seeds.

even shanti and nevil are not so amazing that they could improve on haze.
at best the did some good preservation.
but you know well that whatever haze was back when it was more pure was better than where it is today. but we dont have that option as readily available. what we do have is haze hybrids and im grateful for that. sorry if you think at times it doesnt sound like that, but thats just how i am. never satisfied, always pushing for better.
sorry if some of you have given up.
 
That response sounds like bullshit


I'm here for a laugh and truth when the topic arises.. not evil vs good guys, as I'm an evil gemini, I'll go to the other side to spite myself.. but your complaints and expectations, for a solo grower with no other intentions is strange, you expect to much from others, got others to do the work you want so you can glory hunt but complain until the works fine for you..
I believe most of us would be friends in reality, if smoke and not just growing for dollars .internet isn't reality..
 
try to explain yourself a little bit better so i can understand you.

that comment was directed towards the negativity that has arisen from nevils new genetics being involved. like it is some mns vs them thing, and those seeds arent mns seeds so they are evil.

they are just plants, how they came to be was not under their control, and i dont fault them for that.

i would have preferred if shanti and nevil worked together to release these seeds, as im sure many others did. i know it would have turned out to be a better product with cooperation.

whats wrong with any complaints or expectations i have? please elaborate more so i can understand where you have such an issue.
what do you think is strange about my intentions? getting more accurate information and seeds that sprout in sufficient quantity?
 
what i mean by that is that in pure haze, 1 in 20 are supposed to be excellent.
is it any higher of a ratio in the hybrids, or even harder to find that exceptional quality?
can you even attain that level in the hybrids.
many would say that the indica waters it down, and the high isnt as good.

i dont know for myself, because i havent had both to compare.
but im growing original haze now, so ill see for myself how they compare.
 
Vlads already exposed it, I'm not as smart and I'm just diminishing what's already been shown... You want proof of plants and question the authenticity of plants/seeds from a 20plus year old business but claiming something that was a week long breeding project as legitimate.. no personal or anything, just reading what you write, can only comment on how it's coming across .
 
Duck it jack, mate do.you see jack herera on auctions list or in list of strains? Yet your here trying to find it.. lol...
 
im here because sensi were acting kind of like you guys when i was complaining about the quality of the jack compared to the original one i grew.
im fine with searching longer, but dont want a dead end.
but because of their attitude at the forum, i choose not to do business with them.

nevil said that ssh and jack have the same pedigree, so thats why im here.
and to try other versions of those genetics that may lead to finding an exceptional plant again.

i never asked for proof of any plants, you seem to confuse me with other people.
i also do not question the authenticity of the seeds, for reasons ive previously stated.
i dont have enough experience with them either way to say if anything is original or a decendant.
i dont know what shanti has for plants, only what he tells us.
vlad on the other hand, seems to know all about shantis plants, what he actually holds and what he doesnt.
and vlad not questioning, but flat out saying that shanti doesnt have any of the original f1s gets ignored?

i didnt even want to talk about any of this stuff, id prefer to only talk about mns stuff here from here on out since you gentlemen cant hold a respectable conversation.
 
so what are you guys growing now?

Ive got NH, MH, NHx Mango, G13 haze, skunk haze, and Nl5 haze females.
im putting in the work to try and make what im looking for.

as a different perspective on shantis quote that i started this thread about, what if it wasnt an error. what if he just told more information or different information than he told in the past?

If any of you have any experience with Mango haze, id like to hear your opinion on this idea. of course this all could have been cleared up so easily by shanti, but he was trying to clear up a different question when he threw this statement out there.

he could have meant NH and Mango Haze are pedigree breeds incorporating both sides of Haze A and Haze C combinations....in their breeding... just an error and said ssh by accident?

or, was he eluding to mango haze having haze A on both sides and SSH having haze C on both sides?

id like to think that he didnt make a mistake, and it was just a meaning that i didnt understand at first.

the MH i saw were all dominant in haze A smell. i always wondered why there was no 50% haze A x 50% haze A hybrid on the menu.

could this be a possibility? i did see one mh that had a little sweetness to it, so i couldnt say there is no haze c in it. maybe some sweetness could still come out of the a side with the skunk and nl5 in there too.

i thought it was well known that the mother of MH was nl5 x haze C #122, but at some point we also thought that SSH and MH shared the same father.
maybe the production mango haze used a different mother and father than the tester version that the pedigree details were originally explaining.
 
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Yes it's easy to misinterpret or not convey true meaning, when writing on internet. I'm not trying to bash but merely understand. It's kinda confusing but we all on our own path and I really do hope you find what your looking for and find the right spot to make what your searching for available to find.
 
Vlad the Inhaler said:
Jack, I'm not sure you have s problem with comprehension or you are just playing stupid.

The issue isn't with quality at all.

You have no proof the jeans come from where you say they are from, but you are spouting their creation story as fact.

What was that about misrepresentation again??
Click to expand...

Wow.
You went from asking Jack to do your research for you and give you links to the answers you seek from a 500 page thread, like you have some academic interest in the topic.
Then suddenly turn on him and start pelting him with conspiracies of fraud and BS pedigrees. Acting like he's hyping the stuff when you are the one that literally dragged the topic out of him while he is here talking about something different completely.

Clearly you dislike Jack and were playing nice for some reason.
If you want to know the answers to your questions, read the threads here and the threads on eye see mag about the lines they worked yourself.
Choose not to believe the descriptions and the pictures. Who cares.

What, are you jealous that Jack exchanged emails with Nevil about seeds and growing? A lot of people did. He was talking to people about buying his seeds via PM here and that is why Shanti shut down the grail thread.

Yes, Mullum is a place and is what Kanga called the line he worked himself since the late 80's that Nevil was so impressed with.
You can't drive over to Mullum and get kanga's line.
There's plenty of bush weed being grown over that way but Nevil wanted KANGA'S gear, not random sativas from unknown people in Mullumbimby.
As far as the world is concerned, the legend of Mullum Madness is forever associated with a handful of plants Kanga grew and shared with Nevil.
THAT'S what Jack is talking about.

It took balls to deal direct with Nevil, the prices were WAY higher than most seed on the market. The whole transaction done in secret.
Dealing with Rimmeo took even BIGGER balls. Nev verified Rimmeo was distributing the gear (had bought some of the lines in bulk from Nev to re-sell) but the guy was paranoid, not rational, and had no track record at all besides Nev's endorsement.
Sending him $500 or more felt like trying to go to space in a homemade rocket.

Jack took the chance while most were too scared to try. He got the seeds and grew/smoked the weed. He knows what it is, and I don't mean just some name.

What Jack knows from his experience is something you will never know. You can't learn it from reading, because Kanga's big mullum mother was lost, and the gear people are selling now is selections from hybrids made by Nev.
Multiple parent selections from Kanga, multiple hybridization cycles, multiple selections. Jack got his when it was the original F1 crosses.

Vlad, I'm pretty sure Jack doesn't care what you think about the legitimacy of his seeds. It's not like you'll ever get to smoke or grow any of it. At best you'll get some watered down F-gen or hybrid, but you won't even know what you missed out on.

Jack, I'd suggest you stop arguing with this guy.
You know WAY more about the situation and the players than he ever will, and there is no need to gift such hate filled people with what you know.
Let them earn the knowledge the hard way like you had to.
 
Vlad the Inhaler said:
Yes, I will clarify.
As you are clearly acting simple to deflect, or you are as dumb as dog shit.

You have many times requested Shanti edit this whole board, to satisfy your view of truth.

You have questioned his and MNS integrity, repeatedly.

You can't justify this, so you defer, and attempt to deflect.
You are the definition of a CAPRICIOUS FLAKE.
Now, saying who really cares bout truth.
Let the genetics talk for them self.

There is no cat and mouse.
Just you playing both sides of the field, without the self awareness or dignity to work out that you are wrong.
Click to expand...

Vlad, your posts reflect a complete inability to understand Jack's points about Shanti's pedigrees.
You are so aggressively antagonistic and abusive that you do not deserve the effort needed to type explanations for your misinterpretations.
 
jack hairy said:
so what are you guys growing now?

Ive got NH, MH, NHx Mango, G13 haze, skunk haze, and Nl5 haze females.
im putting in the work to try and make what im looking for.

as a different perspective on shantis quote that i started this thread about, what if it wasnt an error. what if he just told more information or different information than he told in the past?

If any of you have any experience with Mango haze, id like to hear your opinion on this idea. of course this all could have been cleared up so easily by shanti, but he was trying to clear up a different question when he threw this statement out there.

he could have meant NH and Mango Haze are pedigree breeds incorporating both sides of Haze A and Haze C combinations....in their breeding... just an error and said ssh by accident?

or, was he eluding to mango haze having haze A on both sides and SSH having haze C on both sides?

id like to think that he didnt make a mistake, and it was just a meaning that i didnt understand at first.

the MH i saw were all dominant in haze A smell. i always wondered why there was no 50% haze A x 50% haze A hybrid on the menu.

could this be a possibility? i did see one mh that had a little sweetness to it, so i couldnt say there is no haze c in it. maybe some sweetness could still come out of the a side with the skunk and nl5 in there too.

i thought it was well known that the mother of MH was nl5 x haze C #122, but at some point we also thought that SSH and MH shared the same father.
maybe the production mango haze used a different mother and father than the tester version that the pedigree details were originally explaining.
Click to expand...

Shanti posted that he lost 5C#122 and had to select a "new" #122.
I have searched for the post but can't find it. I know someone has a link to that. Most of the old members that were here when he said it are gone.

When Shanti did that selection, it was from a batch of the same original NL#5 x haze C seeds made by Nevil that the original was selected from (according to Shanti's post.)
I believed him when I read it. Still do.
This makes a lot of sense as even if he had the Haze C male, he would have to select another NL#5 female pheno which would take that #122 even further from the original.
Shanti got a lot of Nev's breeding stock to work with and probably still has it.
Nev said as much.

The last picture of the Haze C male to be seen in public was taken in Switzerland before the greenhouse business was raided in 2003.
Coincidence that the Nev's haze seeds Shanti gave Nev for the grail project were made in switzerland in 2003?

The only plant on Shanti's menu that would require the haze C male in order for him to make it using the "original" pedigree is Nevil's Haze, and by all accounts, the line is completely different now than it used to be. The most obvious explanation for the change is that it is now an IBL.
Even if he used a completely different NL/haze mother, an F1 would still produce 25% haze C dom phenos.
Those phenos are completely absent in current stock according to recent grow reports.

Shanti says be makes those seeds the same way they have always been made.
He doesn't say the pedigree is the same.
The "way the seeds were always made" was to take pollen from a male plant and fertilize the flowers of a female plant.
In that way, his answer is 100% true.
 
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Growstone said:
Yes it's easy to misinterpret or not convey true meaning, when writing on internet. I'm not trying to bash but merely understand. It's kinda confusing but we all on our own path and I really do hope you find what your looking for and find the right spot to make what your searching for available to find.
Click to expand...

Common pedigree notation is as unambiguous as algebra.
Shanti refuses to use it when describing his lines.

It might confuse 70% of the members here, but the ones asking the hard questions over and over again would finally shut up.

I can write the pedigrees for hundreds of seed lines without looking at any notes. I'm sure Shanti can too.
 
Growstone said:
Nevil couldnt improve on haze from Sam?you should be looking through sams haze then .
Click to expand...

Nevil would agree with Jack.
Nev didn't improve haze, he outcrossed it.
The hybrids are no longer haze. They are a "new thing."

I'm sure that many will consider this semantics, but it's just a fact. Not taking away from the quality and impact of those hybrids on the canna world.

It just so happens that those hybrids are what most people consider to be "haze" today, but of course they are not the same thing.

He killed the only female he got and couldn't produce pure seed. I believe he said he reversed the males with ethylene and made some seeds that way, but nobody has ever seen those offspring.

Nev had 2 plants and he used them to make a lot of great things.

Sam's own haze releases were commercial flops. Tens of thousands of packs given away as freebies over the years and almost none ever grown out.
When Chimera got some of Sam's private supply of Haze seeds and sold them, several people ran them and I don't know of a single keeper plant preserved by those that did the work. Even the hybrids. Big disappointment.

At the same time, Seedsman oHaze produces great plants very much like Haze C dom phenos from Shanti's hybrids. That oHaze line was a selection of pure haze produced for Seedsman by Sam.
Maybe the best chance to "improve haze" still out there.
 
Old Spice said:
Wow.
You went from asking Jack to do your research for you and give you links to the answers you seek from a 500 page thread, like you have some academic interest in the topic.
Then suddenly turn on him and start pelting him with conspiracies of fraud and BS pedigrees. Acting like he's hyping the stuff when you are the one that literally dragged the topic out of him while he is here talking about something different completely.

Clearly you dislike Jack and were playing nice for some reason.
If you want to know the answers to your questions, read the threads here and the threads on eye see mag about the lines they worked yourself.
Choose not to believe the descriptions and the pictures. Who cares.

What, are you jealous that Jack exchanged emails with Nevil about seeds and growing? A lot of people did. He was talking to people about buying his seeds via PM here and that is why Shanti shut down the grail thread.

Yes, Mullum is a place and is what Kanga called the line he worked himself since the late 80's that Nevil was so impressed with.
You can't drive over to Mullum and get kanga's line.
There's plenty of bush weed being grown over that way but Nevil wanted KANGA'S gear, not random sativas from unknown people in Mullumbimby.
As far as the world is concerned, the legend of Mullum Madness is forever associated with a handful of plants Kanga grew and shared with Nevil.
THAT'S what Jack is talking about.

It took balls to deal direct with Nevil, the prices were WAY higher than most seed on the market. The whole transaction done in secret.
Dealing with Rimmeo took even BIGGER balls. Nev verified Rimmeo was distributing the gear (had bought some of the lines in bulk from Nev to re-sell) but the guy was paranoid, not rational, and had no track record at all besides Nev's endorsement.
Sending him $500 or more felt like trying to go to space in a homemade rocket.

Jack took the chance while most were too scared to try. He got the seeds and grew/smoked the weed. He knows what it is, and I don't mean just some name.

What Jack knows from his experience is something you will never know. You can't learn it from reading, because Kanga's big mullum mother was lost, and the gear people are selling now is selections from hybrids made by Nev.
Multiple parent selections from Kanga, multiple hybridization cycles, multiple selections. Jack got his when it was the original F1 crosses.

Vlad, I'm pretty sure Jack doesn't care what you think about the legitimacy of his seeds. It's not like you'll ever get to smoke or grow any of it. At best you'll get some watered down F-gen or hybrid, but you won't even know what you missed out on.

Jack, I'd suggest you stop arguing with this guy.
You know WAY more about the situation and the players than he ever will, and there is no need to gift such hate filled people with what you know.
Let them earn the knowledge the hard way like you had to.
Click to expand...

Hey.
I didn't ask him to do my research.
I asked Jack to provide a link to show that nev, the real one, had anything to do with that breeding.
But Jack didn't want to back himself up.
I also asked, as Jack hates misinformation, to show that kanga had any gear grown in NSW.
Not just named after the area.
But legit stuff.
Cos he's all about the truth.
But he couldn't.
So I asked him why does he grill MNS so hard in legitimacy, but is so careless about his own stuffs legitimacy.
He has spread this theme over 4 threads in this week alone.

I also PM and told him where to buy a mad Jack cut bred to a MNS black widow dad. Hoping he can get an f1 from that breeding, that is heavy haze.
The widow shouldn't glug it up, like a ghan.
He says he doesn't care about stories, just good gear.
But then runs his yap about his unproven , apparently false stories about his own gear.
If the subtlety is beyond you, then OK.
But he is not here to learn, apparently.
Acusjng me of envy is a joke .
I don't understand how someone here for knowledge is so comfortable spreading myth.
I've tried to help him.
Not sure he wants help.
I don't know what he's even trying to do actually
The guy wants to insinuate that MNS don't allow open chat.
He seems to be a victim.
Like how he was ostracised on other sites cos similar behaviour.
While if totally separate groups of people are saying he same thing, maybe you should listen.

But no, it's my envy.
My aggression.
My sadness, haha.
My hate.
My inability to grow F grade haze.

You guys just deflect, and defer.
I asked him for facts go back himself up.
N he couldn't.
You , old spice, want to pretend it's about my emotions. And change Jack's nappy for him.

If he can't work out his own part in this thread. Whatever.
We are both wasting each others time then, aren't we.
If he is not mature enough to be responsible for himself, why would he even post on this board.
He hints now people don't respect his secret breeding.
I just don't see its legit what he claims it to be.
And that's the whole issue.
Even you say it's not true mullum gear. No problem.
But when he calls out MNS and says they are failing compared to others, and then takes a scammers story as truth, and spreads that story around,then he is just taking the piss.
Isn't he
But if you didn't read the whole thread, and your boy dragged you out of IC to back him up against the bully, then you've got your own motivation, I guess.
( and if your not on IC I apologise.
Easy to think that though.
Jack was saying how its best site in the world. And all the reasons why this site wasn't as good. And you clearly haven't read this whole thread, so real easy to call you a ring-in.
Go chat your boy on how not to shit in his bed, then maybe Jack can gain something positive for himself)
 
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jack hairy said:
id prefer not to here, too many negative people around.
although we are here to talk about cannabis, sometimes these companies favor brand image and reputation over free speech and knowledge.

but nevil got some NH seeds from shanti from 03 and made some crosses with a bunch of stuff.
Click to expand...

This isn't me dragging anything out.
This is a grotty little hint.
He just hint that he wants to chat. But the website won't allow it.

But OK old spice, it's about my envy.

Nothing wrong with your boy at all.

Did you go back him up when he shits the bed at Sensi site also??
 
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