Northern lights#1 vs. northern lights #5

I am going off memory HK but if I remember correct it was posted here. That shanti went to old nl5 seed from nevil the only one seed popped and it was the plant used in ortega. Never got much info on where the male came from. Obviously shanti does not need to sell seeds to be ok, so to think he would list something that would be super misleading just to sell a couple seeds really doesn't fit the guys personality. The only real example someone might use is listing mm as s haze in the la nina cross, but if shanti calls it haze and nev was considering it in his "holy grail haze" then I'll take the man's word that's what it is.
 
Fellas,

I see you all have a very lively passion for the plant.

Lets not get bogged down in hypotheitcals in name calling.

Praise share teach and learn about the plant.

If you really have further doubts about the issue, a PM to Shanti should resolve your doubts.

Lets keep the thread free of bickering and go back to sharing secrets recipes of love for the sacred plant.

Bless up
 
I believe that it said nl5xnl1 on the bag, and that's all we (including the breeder) know. Its true as he knows it.. But maybe it was mislabelled by the original owner of the seed. Ask shanti he'll no doubt give a straight answer to a straight question...

I was told that the new nl#5 was selected from an old bag of seed labeled nl#5xnl#1 but Ortega was selected from a different bag of seed (a few years have passed), so all shanti knows is what the labels say. The rest is in the seed.

Peace
BL
 
Yep I was going on the same info .
Even Nevil said he thought it was sposed to have Thai but he never saw it .

My buddies in Ha tell me there was plenty of Thai weed around n the late 70s / early eighties . Was it an Hawaiian grown Thai descendant ?

Also just learnt lately not all Thai plants are tall Sativas . Over in the Nth West they have indica types as well .


So the #2 the Hindu Kush type that was crossed to Ortegas #4 by the Seed Bank sold as Hindu Kush . Was it a different Afghani parent to the NL #1 and NL #5 ?
It certainly shows different phenos . To the #1 and #5 .


you just confirmed my suspicion!! your buddy could be right imo.
anyway its my suspicion that chems are a result of mixing a afghan/thai x afghan skunk.
any insight anyone?!
 
another issue that comes up with the NL is whether we are talking about a strain or an individual plant.

when I see nl5 x Haze, we know we are talking about a single specific plant, NL5.
well its not so clear anymore now that there is a new NL5, but even then we know there was an old one and the new NL5 crosses use a different one.

but same goes for NL1 and NL2, would we be talking about a seedline or specific individuals selected from that seedline?

I certainly know for 100% certainty that Ortega is not NL1 x NL5, because NL5 is extinct. im not sure if there is an original NL1 or not.also, written like that, is it supposed to be an NL5 male?

if Ortega was NL1 x new NL5, that's possible if there was a NL1 mother still in existence and an NL5 male was selected. but how do you select a NL5 male? it would be an NL male but I just don't see it right to name it NL5.

and then there is the quote BL just posted, where SB said the new NL5 was selected from NL1 x NL5, but Ortega was selected from something else. so what was the something else, and did both parents of Ortega come from those seeds or is it a cross of something else?
 
I wish he would of just used a different name as its not the old NL5...I thought Shanti found an old bag of NL seed that he had put in a wind chime and that he sprouted the seeds with a decent success rate for the fact of their age and that they weren't stored in a fridge. My assumption is that he found some plants to work with maybe even inbreeding a bit...I wish he'd called Ortega something like Shanti's Northern Lights which would show its distinction in terms of new selections. I also wonder if the same female used in Ortega is used for the NL5xAfg he made which also could of used a different name. I know the NL5xHz is an ibl so it would actually have the original NL5 in the genes but even then its a new selection made by Shanti. Having grown NL5Hz I can say that I see the NL5 shine through with huge thick buds and heavy yields. I didn't see that same effect on the plant when I grew NL5xAfg which was very different than the old NL5 clone that floated in my area, it was clone only and if I understand it correctly NL5 was developed a few states away from me and it is a way different plant than the new NL5..different names would solve the issue and the genes could be put in the pedigree area of the strain base
 
as far as I know NL5 x haze is not an ibl, I thought it was the new NL5 crossed with the Haze C male. that's what I thought I was buying anyways...

even if I knew exactly what Ortega was, there was an issue in the fact that it would be found out through PM, and sharing the contents of PMs is against the rule.

I don't know if this is still an issue around here, I really don't understand how sharing info on these plants can get you banned.
 
Well I´d like to think one would know how to use discretion and logic when revealing this info.

Yes, posting up other peoples PM´s WILL get one banned.

But if its simply information about the plant, and you type it in your own words, and if you have the permission of the person who wrote the PM, then I see no reason why you cant continue discussing the plant.

Common sense must be applied. The no showing PM´s rule did not come from an idea where MNS whordes information. It came up as a tool to protect member privacy.

So to sum up, dont simply cut and paste a PM. Use the info (if youre allowed to share it) in your post and continue to learn share and praise the plant.
 
well that is not how the previous moderator put it. I was banned at one point for mentioning that a pm existed. He said posting content of pms was against the rules. I told him I didnt post any actual content that was contained within the pm, just mentioned that there was a pm between me and shanti, and I was banned for it, or it was part of other made up "warnings" that I received and led to the ban.
anyways...as long as those problems are in the past then it should be much easier to get real info out there, there shouldn't be any real reason anyone should have to pm shanti, the info should already be out there.

as far as I know, the new NL5 is the mother of Ortega. im going to try and find some of those old pms and see what info I can dig up.
 
Id like to post the pm just so everyone can read it in shantis words so nothing is misinterpreted. as the rule is to protect member privacy, there is no member privacy issue that would be violated if it was posted.

but until I get the go ahead to post it verbatim, I ask clearly what is the female side and the male side for the parents used in Ortega.
he answered it halfway, and said NL5 female side.
I assume if NL5 is the mother of Ortega, it is not the old one, it is the new one.

I did not get an answer yet on what the father of Ortega is.
but it must be from a different batch of seeds as shanti said in the past.
 
Jack,

Consider this is his business and he will let us know what he can/wants. The problem with answering via PM is that sometimes the information asked of him which he reveals is either unimportant or secret insider info. If he answers things via PM its often because he trusts the person he corresponds with and would like to keep it between them, otherwise he would post it up himself. So if a question you asked goes unanswered, consider either hes read it and considers it not an inportant detail to get bogged down in, or it could not be convenient for him to reveal. It is a business after all, and though Shanti is more transparent about his lines than the majority, there is no real reaso for him to give the public the exact formulas to his breeding programs. They are, after all, the results of years of his hard work. He expects us to be happy enough with the seeds, and when the seeds and the flower arent enough, and we delve too deeply into history and lineage, he (Scott) may believe that we should rather focus on the selection and working of his lines to find our answers, rather than look back into the past for what may or may not have been.

Some questions will simply go forever unanswered, and the ones he does answer, is a privilege, as he´s under no obligation to do so. Plenty of seed companies have hacked his work, so Im sure you could understand his reticence at answering any question coming his way he deems unimportant or too delicate. So normally, if he does answer one of these questions via PM, its out of respect and caring for the person who asked. And sometimes keeping this info to yourself is more than enough. Personally Ive been told my fair share of company secrets, even before this current moderator job, but have been satisfied with knowing these answers. Sharing a private conversation has been less important.

Hope this helps.
 
I don't believe there should be any secrets when it comes to the genetics of seeds that you pay money for.

it doesn't really matter what anything is, its just a name.
specifically for the strain in question, Ortega, most likely they came from seeds that are no longer available.
so what is the point of keeping information about lineages secret, when they could not be reproduced anyways? and even if someone does use the same formula as shanti used, it is the selection of the grower/breeder that determines the outcome, not just the formula.
no one can pick the same plants as shanti, so no one can make the same seeds as shanti.

lets not think for a second I am not appreciative of the sharing of info. it is one of the most important things in this world. knowledge can be free or can be very expensive.

I like to know if seeds I buy are F-1 hybrids of if they have been worked. this should always be free information. I also like to know what the parents and grandparents are if possible, going back as far as I can.
it is the same if you buy a pedigree dog or cat.
you want to know the lineage as far back and completely as is possible.
if you buy a pedigreed dog, you will know who both grandparents were, and you will know their names and if you look into im sure you will find descriptions and maybe even pictures of the grandparents.
why is this any different with cannabis?
 
Maybe there should be a type of kennel club for cannabis lol..

But seriously, all pedigree strains could be issued a certificate that says both parents are alive and validated every year. The strain would be DNA mapped to prove linage and retested every year.

An international database could be checked at will by the public, that way if a breeder don't make the database next year, we would be sceptical about the parents.. All true bred seed would have a standard mark printed on the packet.. Buyers would be sure of what they're getting.. And genuine breeders with healthy p1 stock would get the profits they deserve.

But although that's a bit totalitarian, it maybe the future of standardised cannabis..

But until then, we can ask the breeder about linages and do what we will with the answers we received..

When I grew nl5 x Afghan, I wondered where the new NL5 came from so I asked.. I was told from a bag of seed labeled nl5xnl1 but not to share the info until shanti had verified it with the maker of said seed.. Once verified I was given the nod to share the info, but with the disclaimer that Ortega came from a different set of seed.. I wasn't growing Ortega so didn't probe any further...

Peace
BL
 
I found the NL5Haze beans to be much more uniform than the SSH. Just my 2c

I'll be doing a lil nl#1 project that never went airborne. I might post updates in the future if anyone is interested.
 
Maybe there should be a type of kennel club for cannabis lol..

But seriously, all pedigree strains could be issued a certificate that says both parents are alive and validated every year. The strain would be DNA mapped to prove linage and retested every year.

An international database could be checked at will by the public, that way if a breeder don't make the database next year, we would be sceptical about the parents.. All true bred seed would have a standard mark printed on the packet.. Buyers would be sure of what they're getting.. And genuine breeders with healthy p1 stock would get the profits they deserve.

But although that's a bit totalitarian, it maybe the future of standardised cannabis..

But until then, we can ask the breeder about linages and do what we will with the answers we received..

When I grew nl5 x Afghan, I wondered where the new NL5 came from so I asked.. I was told from a bag of seed labeled nl5xnl1 but not to share the info until shanti had verified it with the maker of said seed.. Once verified I was given the nod to share the info, but with the disclaimer that Ortega came from a different set of seed.. I wasn't growing Ortega so didn't probe any further...

Peace
BL

I like this idea.
 
Thanks everyone

I would like to thank each and everyone for their imput on my question, I would like to extend a special thanks to NLGreg I appreciate everyone contributing to my thread.
I wish I could get those genetics I had in the early 90s, if you think about it genetics are kinda like a loved one you really don't know what you got until it's gone (such a shame)
Thanks guys
 
Steve Murphy? Did he rearrange his name into the pseudonym Murphy Stevens and author a grow book? If not what a coincidence. Are you familiar with the origins of the UW cut? Similar timeframe and area.
Crazy that his 1st edition book now goes for $100
 
I’ve got some NL#2 x 88G13/HP by Bodhi and 88G13/HP x NL#1 by Coastal Seeds (Kagyu and formerly Bob Hemphill)

ill try to find pics but the 89 NL5 “noof” x BCSC NL5 was one of my of my favorites that I’ve grown in a while. Seeds were from Bodhi. The mother I used to make some F1s with smelled like forest floor, black pepper, and garlic. Super special and one of my favorite smokes for a while. Unfortunately now just have the F1s I made using a Sakura (Bubba Kush x Wookie #15) male by Bodhi as well as some using some pollen from a male Durban Punch (70s African Durban/Highland Ciskei X Ciskei) by Tropical Seeds.
Both crosses are fantastic.

I know Oasis by Dutch Passion was an old NL line as well.
 
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