The True Origins of Haze- BigHerb's Article

[Hemphrey Bogart]

But did he win any for his haze or haze hybrids ?

Not in Amsterdam. From what I understand, the idea for the cup came from the harvest festivals local growers used to have in California back in the day.

have you ever asked your selfs why does Sam's original haze along with tom hills haze ever flower faster than a Neville's haze would i know i have since 2002.

According to legend, the haze changed from year to year. The addition of Thai in later versions of the haze that nev got from sams would definitely lead to longer flowering times.

From what I understand, Tom's stock is from Positronics, but does that mean it's more or less hazy than Nev's?? I honestly can't be sure since I've never actually smoked the real deal Original Haze and chances are most of us here have never actually smoked the real thing in it's pure form, so where does that leave us? If I can't smoke the Original Haze, I can at least grow and smoke something that has it's roots in the original.

I'm growing out both Tom's and Nev's haze right now. Both have lovely qualities, but they also have major differences in structure, smell, etc. The males, however, DO look similar...which is rather strange.

HB.

 

[blackberry]

everytime I hear about some insane long flowering periods I see photos of deleafed plants, wonder if has some connection?

 

[Elmer Bud]

G`day Hempy

The One thing the on line community shows me daily is that you dont need to be a grower of cannabis to be an expert in cannabis as on line posters that dont grow can claim to be experts to lol.

You are changing tack again bro .
To write what someone else relates has little to do with how many plants you`ve grown .
And once again your experiences and reality are your own . And yours only . Projecting your own experience as the only reality is to be narrow minded .
How many packs of NVL`s haze have you grown out ?
Donald and resin Bud both got 8/9 week phenos . That you didn`t find them in your stock doesn`t mean that they don`t exist ...

And again saying people don`t grow is a long bow to pull . Big Herb has posted more than once that he has shown his plants to both Shanti and NVL . Thats a big call if he is not a grower .

Thanks for sharin

Elmer Bud .

 

[hempy]

where did i say anything about growing pure haze in my comment?

Do the reports in the Nev's Haze forum have no validity on those flowering times?

Also another point for you to ponder. If Sam or Tom has a "pure" haze, it would be a min of an f5 (lets say they need to make another seed-lot ever 5 years for it to be viable) You can't compare an inbred line to an f1 hybrid.

And i grew homegrown fantaseeds haze years ago, 12-13 weeks of nothing. but one pheno had killer smoke, but only about 3 grams a plant.

I also have a 70 day nev's x mango. Thats a lot less then 16 weeks, and does have more haze then the other hybrids.

correct you didn't sorry coop i thort you did see thats being honest i think a few posting in here need to try a little of that to lol.

3 grams a plant thats a joint coop why would any one bother growing that out is my question.

Coop i have lines and seen lines inbreed for 30 or more years there flowering times did not change or did the vigor or yields and people have disputed this points for years there the facts and by inbreeding your not going to speed up flowering.

That is why breeders real breeders like shanti Neville and others use faster lines and add them to things like haze so they can speed up there flowering times as a breeder you combine things for a reason.

I have had seed plants in say the magohaze go 17/18 weeks yet from clone go 9 and 10 weeks it can happen from seed plant to clone no real valid explanation but some plants still take as long as they did from seed grown in clone to.

 

[coop]

Mexi-Sats are also early, as well as some africian varaties. Not saying they are in the haze, but even a Mexican dominant haze hybrid could be ready in 10 or 11 weeks and still be pretty sativa.

 

[coop]

3 grams a plant thats a joint coop why would any one bother growing that out is my question.

that a bob marley hempy

I did not keep it i grew it for about 3 or 4 cycles.

I was also a more novice grower back then so that could have accounted some what for the low yields but it was pretty unimpressive stock, I don't even know if HGF still sells a haze or just hybrids now. I'm not even sure what that was. But had I known a bit of what I know now, it might have been good stock to use as a parent in something.

It was some great smoke, really great soaring sativa. But its an impractical plant for most people to grow anywhere at that point

 

[hempy]

G`day Hempy



You are changing tack again bro .
To write what someone else relates has little to do with how many plants you`ve grown .
And once again your experiences and reality are your own . And yours only . Projecting your own experience as the only reality is to be narrow minded .
How many packs of NVL`s haze have you grown out ?
Donald and resin Bud both got 8/9 week phenos . That you didn`t find them in your stock doesn`t mean that they don`t exist ...

And again saying people don`t grow is a long bow to pull . Big Herb has posted more than once that he has shown his plants to both Shanti and NVL . Thats a big call if he is not a grower .

Thanks for sharin

Elmer Bud .

No i am not doing that elmer but you guys are you are steering the post away from the valid points i made and that is a normal thing with you guys and nothing i or others are surprised to see.

Facts

Bigherb opened him self up to scrutiny and comments from the time he had an article written and published fact.

Bigherb is down on record saying he was never going to write a haze article fact.

Bigherb sed Sam's info was not credible and yet when Sam supported the third haze brother being G after years of Sam saying there was only 2 haze brothers bigherb then sed Sam's info was credible again fact.

Also no one knows what the origins of haze is they dont know the true story regarding the growers of it or do they know the genetics that went into breeding the haze again fact.

The real work growing out the haze seed and then selecting and breeding what we all now call haze hybrids was done in Amsterdam that is were haze became famous and were the real preservation took place and yet this story that is the only one that can be traced and verified is ignored and no interest is taken in it fact.


There the facts there lays the truth and as hard as you guys try to move this post past these points you can not hide what is the real facts here so stop trying to.

 

[coop]

I'm not discrediting any work Nev or SB has done,
But all these plants come from what 4 plants?

It should be looked on more like a stud breeding program. Thankfully the correct combo of the males seems to pass on greatness down the line. Maybe haze was always out-crossed and that's where you will always find the best plants.

 

[hempy]

that a bob marley hempy

I did not keep it i grew it for about 3 or 4 cycles.

I was also a more novice grower back then so that could have accounted some what for the low yields but it was pretty unimpressive stock, I don't even know if HGF still sells a haze or just hybrids now. I'm not even sure what that was. But had I known a bit of what I know now, it might have been good stock to use as a parent in something.

It was some great smoke, really great soaring sativa. But its an impractical plant for most people to grow anywhere at that point

You know coop i have smoked and grown lines people talk about like they were mythical they were good still have some of these lines but when i say that in lines like mangohaze ssh and Neville's haze with selection and effort you can find plants that will equal or come close to any of these lines people still rave on decades late i mean it.

The Yields people can get on these haze hybrids are amazing as with big yields you will find top quality flowers and thats what really matters.

The fact is with out people like Neville and shanti and many others these lines would no longer exist thats the fact few get.

Pure haze would at best given people stringy flowers that would of taken 9 months to a year to grow and lets be honest how many would grow such a best few right they complain if a NH takes 16 weeks.

 

[coop]

in general your patience with sativas is well rewarded with larger harvests.
I would say that a proper 11-12 week sativa hybrid will out-yield most indica's per watt/day how ever you could figure it.

I'm sure you've seen a few lb plants in your room.

 

[Hemphrey Bogart]

Facts

Bigherb opened him self up to scrutiny and comments from the time he had an article written and published fact.

Yes, he did do that. Not sure what that has to do with the veracity of the article though.

Bigherb is down on record saying he was never going to write a haze article fact.

So what? He wrote an article anyway. Not a deal breaker, imho.

Bigherb sed Sam's info was not credible and yet when Sam supported the third haze brother being G after years of Sam saying there was only 2 haze brothers bigherb then sed Sam's info was credible again fact.

I asked Big if he spoke with Sams before writing the article and he said no. The focus of the article wasn't really Sams anyway, so not sure what that has to do with anything. Maybe I'm confused on this and have to go back and do some re-reading, but it's very possible that the person Sams referred to as "J" was actually "G." Again, Sams wasn't a source for the article.

Also no one knows what the origins of haze is they dont know the true story regarding the growers of it or do they know the genetics that went into breeding the haze again fact.

SOMEONE knows, hempy. To discount the whole history of the haze plant in California just because Sams was involved in some way isn't really fair to the guys that now claim to have done the actual work. Does anyone in the dam know what is in the haze after all these years of working and hybridization? If not, then why is the dam a more important point of reference than where the seeds came from? Because it got worked and outcrossed? Meh.

The real work growing out the haze seed and then selecting and breeding what we all now call haze hybrids was done in Amsterdam that is were haze became famous and were the real preservation took place and yet this story that is the only one that can be traced and verified is ignored and no interest is taken in it fact.

Haze was popular in the states before Amsterdam, and that's a fact. It was grown, sold and smoked long before it came to the dam as was Skunk #1, hempy. I should know, I was smoking California skunk in the mid 80's with my friends. To say it all began with Amsterdam is to choose to ignore that these seeds that came to the dam came from somewhere else. Again, I'm not saying growers from all over didn't come to the dam and do great things, they did.

I'm saying that you can't put the cart before the horse and say "well, since we're not sure about where these seeds came from or what is in them, we'll just say that they didn't exist until they got here."

In my opinion, that viewpoint isn't fair to the people who were actually growing the stuff out before the cups and the like came along, whether it be "g" or "j" or "r" or sams himself. Someone did find it and grow it out before it came to the dam and for all these years, no one I've heard of in the dam other than sams has claimed to know what went into the haze.

HB.

 

[BucketBong]

I always thought that Durban was basically a pure sativa and I've seen many of those that take 9 weeks max indoors .

 

[hempy]

Yes, he did do that. Not sure what that has to do with the veracity of the article though.



So what? He wrote an article anyway. Not a deal breaker, imho.



I asked Big if he spoke with Sams before writing the article and he said no. The focus of the article wasn't really Sams anyway, so not sure what that has to do with anything. Maybe I'm confused on this and have to go back and do some re-reading, but it's very possible that the person Sams referred to as "J" was actually "G." Again, Sams wasn't a source for the article.



SOMEONE knows, hempy. To discount the whole history of the haze plant in California just because Sams was involved in some way isn't really fair to the guys that now claim to have done the actual work. Does anyone in the dam know what is in the haze after all these years of working and hybridization? If not, then why is the dam a more important point of reference than where the seeds came from? Because it got worked and outcrossed? Meh.



Haze was popular in the states before Amsterdam, and that's a fact. It was grown, sold and smoked long before it came to the dam as was Skunk #1, hempy. I should know, I was smoking California skunk in the mid 80's with my friends. To say it all began with Amsterdam is to choose to ignore that these seeds that came to the dam came from somewhere else. Again, I'm not saying growers from all over didn't come to the dam and do great things, they did.

I'm saying that you can't put the cart before the horse and say "well, since we're not sure about where these seeds came from or what is in them, we'll just say that they didn't exist until they got here."

In my opinion, that viewpoint isn't fair to the people who were actually growing the stuff out before the cups and the hybrids came along whether it be "g" or "j" or "r" or sams. Someone did find it and grow it out before it came to the dam and for all these years, no one I've heard of in the dam other than sams has claimed to know what went into the haze.

HB.

Really well if haze was so popular back then why is it no longer available and why is Californian over run with dutch lines re named for domestic markets maybe you can explane it to me as i am a little confused mate.

It haze was never famous or popular as you claim up until it won the cups in Amsterdam.

Back in the day African black the line DJ still to this day raves about was still only seen as good smoke lets be honest here.

Thais panama red columbine and many others were grown like what sk1 lines are today every man and his dog were growing them and yet no one back then raved about set lines all they sed was it was good or it was okay or it was shit thats how we rated cannabis.


Decades later what do we see i will tell you we see the modern cannabis Geno pool made up of basically lines Neville selected and breed and please dont tell me thats not the case as it is fact and people are still just recombining the same set clones Neville selected decades ago or using seeds Nev sold threw his seed shop or outlets and there all just re naming the same genetics now.

Shantis the only one to offer what nev did.


As for bigherbs article what basically G IN SHORT sed well who is G the 3rd haze brother well who confirmed this Sam did correct and his the same Sam guy that for years has posted and sed that there were only 2 haze brothers sorry mate its time people stuck to the facts and not talk about history like its something that can be manipulated to suite set agendas.

Sam sed R and J were the haze brother not R and J and G but now G added so i am saying its all bull shit prove i am wrong you cant can you.

 

[cannatari]

You're pounding sand if you respond to that.

 

[hempy]

and as for Hempy making bold statements about regarding the haze hybrids he grew taking at least 14 weeks so that by his logic everybody else's must take more than 14 weeks pretty much sums the bloke up. As for the selective ignoring of statements about what Hempy himself said by other posters , typical. As for the selective irrelevant quoting - cut and pasting that ignores what other posters main point was : another typical Hempy argument. The articles name is " Origins of Haze " . Something Hempy hasn't even basically acknowledged as he performs his usual spin doctoring - aggressive type posting. I thought the article was a decent attempt by a member of our site to try and delve into the history of a famous strain. So you disagree with him Hempy. Cool, but no need to belabour the point and punish Big Herb. Cheers Everyone.

Bucketbong your turn is it i make no bold statements unlike you i have posted fully documented grow threads from seed germination to harvests for 10 years now and all i sed was true fully documented and backed by posts so there not made up or bull shit that is what others post.

Do every one a favor here bring something of subsistence next time you post.

 

[coop]

cali's over run with a lot of s1 clones that's about it.

 

[hempy]

You're pounding sand if you respond to that.

You cannatari need to add something of substance to because so far all i am seeing from most of you guys is the same old tactics you always pull in this site.

You target a member who posts points or opinions you dont like and you come at them wave after wave to discredit them and move the post away from the valid argument and points they have made.

Its sicking really.

You all trying to discredit me for what telling the truth and pointing out the facts please thats a week case you have no chance of stopping.

 

[b0b_b1tch1n]

anyone remember the haze sister ? Damn she was hot ,,,,

oh wait that was every chick i looked at when smoking thai's , sativa's , damn hazy lookin plants back in the early 80's in BC Canada , hell if i know where they were grown , but they were there and wow what a punch

sure hempy , a ton of ppl and i mean a ton breed thier lines from nevil and shanti's work , but thats not every strain and every breeder , i have a pure sativa that i got from a member here , its supossed to be unhybredised and been inbred since the 70's , it came to me from an aussi and its called carrot , ever heard of it hempy ? and if so , have you grown it and can you share your thoughts about it ?

EDIT : has any aussi or anyone for that matter spent any time with carrot ? and have any info they can share ?

 

[bigherb]

I have been busy at work an eagre to respond

Im happy that this thread has had some activity an excitement .But please Remember i do wish it remains civil an Respectful

Id love to hear all opinions an discuss them ,I ask that we all speak our mind an if we dont agree than move on leave it alone .say it once twice an say it nice but dont continue to repeat or act disrespectful.Im Glad no names or foul things have gone on an i hope it stays that way .

I knew from day one when i git the okay to share the story that i would encounter opinions in various forms ,But i Truly didnt exspect such positive reactions .IN all the sites i post on an shared the story maybe 3% -5% made ill comments ,but once again share no valid points


Hempy

you have not understood what ive tried to explain ,please dont assume an please make your opinion based on the actual events ive reported an my experiences


Where to start

G an J are one in the same you have to ask Sams why he choose to tell the story as such .I already stated i believe it was a form of protection ,Just as in using R instead of R.L

G was not one of the brothers he was the originator an R.L was his partner they were the 2 main growers which Sams referred to as the haze bros only

I have not spoke with G personally .My info somes from a close friend who Translated my questions an shared G's story .He also Gifted me the Ohaze poster which is posted in this thread an i consider it to be one of the most precious Gifts i have .In the pic i posted there is what someone told me was Hillbilllyhaze / Nevilles haze /Tom hill haze all grown outdoors in the snow in NYC


Who i have spoke with on the phone i will Refer to as Joey one of the 3 brothers originally from the east coast New jersey to be specific that went ou to he Cruz for school .He still lives in the Cruz ,he has public info as to what ive stated about him that has confirmed IMO the story i was gifted to be true as what my friend said he wrote the same about himself .i spoke briefly on the phone an asked about this brothers in the short convo i had i was more than convinced that he played the role i was told .

Now i will say again ,I dont believe everything Sams has said what i dont believe is obvious contradictions .But i do know he knew both G an R.L an that he got his hands on Ohaze stock .The timelines an different strains are what didnt seem right but he has shared most of the story just hasnt been specific an honest about it all .

We can discuss all his old post of contradictions many which i post now an than but it wont clear anything up for you .


what i ask is what makes your stories true what make syou a believe ,if i could answer the question i ask you it would be some solid evidence like written proof ,several different sources withe the same story .well i have it all .

If you dont believe anything ive said or what sams said how is it possible you believe Nevil has haze stock he got irt from sams remember


I have spoke about writing an article for sometime ,Im not sure an id be shocked if you could produce the post where i said i wasnt gonna write na article



Please Know my intention is to help you understand not to Refute you an knock anything you say because you have written many things in which I/many IMO would think you only express your opinion .It seems you think these are facts just two below

The origins of haze is from unknown commercial growers the genetic make up of haze is also unknown


so really its only credible history like it or not is from the point Sam and Neville got it.



You can have your opinion but what is it based on .I have written an verbal facts that were told to me By folks who were there



1luvbigherb

 

[Kangativa]

Hi Hempy and thanx mate, its good to be back.
Hey mate just something that Hemprhey B said about Haze and Skunk being popular In Cal. It was mate...I was there and that was pretty much all I saw, Dutch strains hadnt really made their impact in the mid 80's, so up in the backwoods of Norcal, old strains were still being grown.
Also you know how it goes....When things start winning cups everybody wants to grow it, so over the years the old is out and the new is in. Bit like the Mullum, everybody use to smoke it and talk about it, but where is it now...yep overrun with new Dutch strains. Same with the Hawaiian strains.

You know this story about G....do you think it might be possible that he wanted to remain a unknown because of his lifestyle.
I had heard about someone that was involved with the Thai stuff In Cal, but no one really said anything so it was a bit like a rumour. Then one day I am on this tiny Island in the middle of the Indian ocean and I bump into him and his family....he was on the run, now he is doing work for a UN Embassy and he tells his story to everybody.
Its possible that this G was just like that...dont ya think.
Anyway mate you know its just a discussion, like we usually have