Would you invest money in insecticide?

Cannalicous

Cannalicous

Well-known member
Hi all,

I’ve got trips. Big time. Don’t like spraying chemicals so I found a product which is a bio solution against all types of insects.
But would spraying them with a homebrew of tobacco and neemoil work equally good?

Leaf Insects Leaf insects Concentrate - 250 ml for 250 m2 - Applicable to aphids, scalloid, root lice, caterpillars, gall midge, spider mite, thrips, leaf flea and other sucking or eating leaf insects - Organifer : Amazon.nl: Garden

Leaf Insects Leaf insects Concentrate - 250 ml for 250 m2 - Applicable to aphids, scalloid, root lice, caterpillars, gall midge, spider mite, thrips, leaf flea and other sucking or eating leaf insects - Organifer : Amazon.nl: Garden
www.amazon.nl
 
I am not going to touch them in flowering. But they infect those in growth too.
So I need to protect those in veg too kill them off by the next round.
 
Cannalicous said:
I am not going to touch them in flowering. But they infect those in growth too.
So I need to protect those in veg too kill them off by the next round.
Click to expand...
I would treat the sh*t out of the vegs and only release the Neoseiulus for the ones in flower. They wont kill the adult ones but at least eat their eggs and youngsters so you will stop it from getting worse.
 
Try spraying andiroba oil diluted @2ml per liter of water.

It's organic and less toxic to our health than neem oil.

It can be applied to skin (it's even part of some cosmetic products)
as it has anti-inflammatory and healing properties,
and a few drops can be ingested as medicine for some ailments.

Andiroba oil is more effective against small insects, so they
wont kill honey bees at this concentration, unlike neem.
 
Neem oil is not toxic, even if you bathe in it. It is also not toxic to honey bees unless you spray it on pollinating males that will ingest the pollen. Neem works great on thrips and is one of the best knockdown sprays for thrips. Get the refined 70% neem as raw neem is hard to work with. Refined neem also does not have any azadirachtin in it. Some claim that aza is toxic and leads to Cannabis hyperemesis syndrome , but azadirachtin is used in virtually ~every~ organic farm in existance, and hence, if it were toxic, we would all be dead or in the least, suffering from CHS.
 
For now it’s neem, soap and baking soda. They look very polished.
No worries for the bees though, I’m not outside. :D

I figured the baking soda would help prevent mold as they will get sprayed on a regular basis. Gonna simulate morning dew with that brew before lights on.

Thank you all.
 
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We use a mix of Neem, T tree and agricultural soap as a preventative home made spray or dip...then we also grow our own tobacco and soak leaves in the water over night and spray this around the base of the plants....these all seem to keep pests away from our plants long enough to do a crop....so we go for preventative rather than anything else...Sb
 
shantibaba said:
We use a mix of Neem, T tree and agricultural soap as a preventative home made spray or dip... ...so we go for preventative rather than anything else...Sb
Click to expand...
Excuse me, I'm a foreigner ;-)
What is "T tree"? Do you mean tea tree oil?
Source wikipedia:
"...While tea tree oil is strictly the oil of the Australian tea tree (Melaleuca alternifolia), in a broader sense it includes the essential oils of various species of these genera; for example, oil of Melaleuca cajuputi, Melaleuca viridflora, Melaleuca leucadendra and Melaleuca quinquenervia. However, these mostly contain 1.8-cineole and come from Asia and Madagascar and should therefore not be confused. ..."
 
Big Sur said:
Neem oil is not toxic, even if you bathe in it. It is also not toxic to honey bees unless you spray it on pollinating males that will ingest the pollen. Neem works great on thrips and is one of the best knockdown sprays for thrips. Get the refined 70% neem as raw neem is hard to work with. Refined neem also does not have any azadirachtin in it. Some claim that aza is toxic and leads to Cannabis hyperemesis syndrome , but azadirachtin is used in virtually ~every~ organic farm in existance, and hence, if it were toxic, we would all be dead or in the least, suffering from CHS.
Click to expand...

Forgive me if I missed something, and Im not trying to antagonize anyone here,
but I thought azadiractin was the MAIN active ingredient in neem, that's why
it's concentration in the product is listed on the label, normally
0,12% p/p or 1200ppm.

At least that's how it goes in my 3rd world place.

Perhaps it works differently in your country and perhaps there are other
active ingredients that render it effective even without azadiractin in it,
but I still wonder, why removing it? Perhaps they are separating it
in order to create a more concetrated version of it? Could be.

Anyway, just clarifying some points:

Being toxic is NOT synonymous of being deadly, and is always related to dosage
and form as well as frequency of exposure.

In other words, "toxic" doesnt mean you'll die or get nasty side effects
if you get a few droplets on your skin eventually.

I myself have done it repeatedly with no noticeable harmful effects at all. Countless others have,
but I'd never bathe in neem oil, even though Im sure you were joking, which is fine.

I even use it regularly on my plants, It works great and I'd go for it any
day over synthetic insecticides.

But I choose not incurring on the risk of using it on plants that I'll be ingesting,
mainly leafy greens that I'll be eating or buds that I'll be smoking, specially
because it seems to be more toxic when ingested (or less safe, depending
on whether you're a half empty or half full glass type of person) ;)

Also, carrying the label "organic" is not guarantee of being 100% safe.
Copper sulfate is toxic in certain doses, yet allowed to be used as anti-fungal spray in organics.
(it's also great btw and I use it all the time in my fruit trees as I live in high humidity area)

If those products had 0 toxicity there would be no need for PPEs to be enforced by law.

One can argue that this is because the law operates on the safe side
and that even table salt or pure water, or even sea water can be toxic
if ingested in large amounts, even though you can bathe in it, fair enough...
I wont go down that path.

In the end, it all boils down to personal choice and preference and it's good
that we have so many options.

Even a solution of water and vinegar with a few few drops of detergent will kill insects.

As SB suggested, prevention coupled with a multi pronged strategy seems to be key.
 
Virus Myth said:
Forgive me if I missed something, and Im not trying to antagonize anyone here,
but I thought azadiractin was the MAIN active ingredient in neem, that's why
it's concentration in the product is listed on the label, normally
0,12% p/p or 1200ppm.

At least that's how it goes in my 3rd world place.

Perhaps it works differently in your country and perhaps there are other
active ingredients that render it effective even without azadiractin in it,
but I still wonder, why removing it? Perhaps they are separating it
in order to create a more concetrated version of it? Could be.

Anyway, just clarifying some points:

Being toxic is NOT synonymous of being deadly, and is always related to dosage
and form as well as frequency of exposure.

In other words, "toxic" doesnt mean you'll die or get nasty side effects
if you get a few droplets on your skin eventually.

I myself have done it repeatedly with no noticeable harmful effects at all. Countless others have,
but I'd never bathe in neem oil, even though Im sure you were joking, which is fine.

I even use it regularly on my plants, It works great and I'd go for it any
day over synthetic insecticides.

But I choose not incurring on the risk of using it on plants that I'll be ingesting,
mainly leafy greens that I'll be eating or buds that I'll be smoking, specially
because it seems to be more toxic when ingested (or less safe, depending
on whether you're a half empty or half full glass type of person) ;)

Also, carrying the label "organic" is not guarantee of being 100% safe.
Copper sulfate is toxic in certain doses, yet allowed to be used as anti-fungal spray in organics.
(it's also great btw and I use it all the time in my fruit trees as I live in high humidity area)

If those products had 0 toxicity there would be no need for PPEs to be enforced by law.

One can argue that this is because the law operates on the safe side
and that even table salt or pure water, or even sea water can be toxic
if ingested in large amounts, even though you can bathe in it, fair enough...
I wont go down that path.

In the end, it all boils down to personal choice and preference and it's good
that we have so many options.

Even a solution of water and vinegar with a few few drops of detergent will kill insects.

As SB suggested, prevention coupled with a multi pronged strategy seems to be key.
Click to expand...

i use this no chimical prod inside

dcb3f56b15f70f9f6127778e3bf45039.JPG
 
While azadiractin is an important component to neem, it is not the only ingredient that shows biological efficacy within neem, though I don't believe the clarified hydrophobic extract is as effective i.e. hormone disruptor vs suffocator, but it is less expensive. Neem oil combined with tea tree oil or another citrus oil is a safe and effective organic strategy that can function as a full-spectrum miticide, fungicide, bactericide. The application of a second product with a different mechanism of action may provide synergistic effect. Alternating with Spinosad has been an effective IPM strategy for me.

mu
 
Virus Myth said:
Forgive me if I missed something, and Im not trying to antagonize anyone here,
but I thought azadiractin was the MAIN active ingredient in neem, that's why
it's concentration in the product is listed on the label, normally
0,12% p/p or 1200ppm.
Click to expand...

Azadiractin (aza) is but one of many active ingredients in raw Neem oil. There are maybe a dozen active agents known in Neem oil that have been identified. There are other ingredients that have yet to be identified. They act as fungicides and miticides and pesticides along with the oil that is an active ingredient on its own. My point is that Neem oil is not toxic to bees as you state, raw or refined. Bees would have to ingest the neem to be toxic, and in order for bees to ingest Neem you would have to spray blooming Cannabis males with ripening pollen. No one would have any reason to do that. Male Cannabis plants have no commercial value here in North America. Cannabis grown here in the states (both hemp and marijuana) are 99% females. Few people like myself grow both male and female regular plants for breeding and for preserving old lines. As for Neem being toxic to humans, only one case has ever been reported in the US of a man that drank a half pint of Neem oil on his salad thinking it was salad oil. He went to the hospital and was released and sent home. No ill effects other than feeling weird. A mild case of food poisoning at the most. Drinking mineral oil might have had the same effect. Neem is commonly recommended for use on human skin for several ailments, including lice, acne and warts. So I do not see any need for PPE when spraying Neem. I have had no ill effects from spraying it anyway. Or from smoking weed sprayed with it.

FYI: Raw Neem oil is not very common here in the US. Refined Neem oil (sold as 70% Refined Neem oil) is common and it has the aza removed. Raw Neem oil is very difficult to mix with water. I have a gallon of Raw Neem Oil that I spray my bamboos with here for mites, and I do not use any protection when spraying it or the refined neem, as they have no ill effects. Aza is also sold here separately as an organic pesticide. The reason why Neem oil is refined here is for two reasons: one is that raw neem is very hard to mix and spray, even with a lot of agricultural soap mixed in hot water. For that reason I use it more as a root drench. Hence they refine Raw neem oil to make it soluble in water. When they refine raw Neem oil they also remove the aza, as aza is a high value 'organic' ingredient to sell by itself. Also note that Canada banned the use of Neem oil as an agricultural spray along with mineral oil and all other oil sprays, due to their insane labeling laws there. In Canada you have to show proof with research that the oils work for bugs and fungus on plants in order to sell any product there stating such, even though everyone knows that they work on bugs and fungus. As Neem and mineral oils have been around it is not patentable and no company could recover the costs to prove that they are effective. In the US they are both sold as pesticides, miticides and fungicides. Go figure. As for Neem oil being organic, I could care less about that. Organic in the US means whatever the USDA says it means, and they control anything labeled as "organic" here.
 
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Hi Big Sur, you need to mix it with warm (not hot) water and soap. Or else it mixes bad yes.
I rubbed it on my skin as well and it was nice.
 
I use hot water for mixing raw neem, as that stuff is hard to dissolve, even with agricultural soap. I tried warm water and it became gloppy and separated. I only use agricultural soap designed for plant spraying, as things like dish detergents and even mild hand soaps will dissolve leaf wax. You also need to emulsify the neem oil by mixing it well with the soap first, and then add it to the (yes, I use) hot water. By the time I mix it all up in a cold bucket and then and pour it into a cold sprayer, the hot water will have cooled off a lot. At least it does here in the cold PNW where we are still experiencing winter. I have a fire going in my wood stove now. In mid June. Global cooling. 7 inches of rain here so far this June.

BTW, refined neem does not need ag soap or a spreader mixed with it. It will mix with water and spread well as is. I found that a 1:100 solution of refined neem works well for PM, which is 3.66 TB refined 70% neem in a gallon of water. It also kills white fly, aphids, mites and mite eggs on contact. It is a contact spray, so you have to saturate the plants with it to be effective.
 
At first glance on Amazon (.CA), I can't find any refined neem, just 100% maybe because I'm in Canada? Can @Big Sur suggest brand names for refined, I'm sold? Heading to the states soon, maybe I'll pick up a gallon or 2.
 
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