The True Origins of Haze- BigHerb's Article

[cannabisspfecund]

You are confused an confusing me

Id would have enjoyed explaing better if you were as enthusiatic as you were nasty .ill make my last attempt


Just because you put a porsche sign on a hyundai doesnt make it a porsche .I have said in the past why would Sams speak about burning bush which was released in 81 when giving Nevil his haze stock supposedly from 69 .What he actually said was it was an ancestor to the haze meaning of descent


quote from Sams




This above quote would mean that it would not be possible for 69 stock to contain haze ,i am just sharing what has been posted but i have more proof .



What im sayin in case you still dont see it is i dont believe that Sams gave Nevil 69 haze stock i believe it was from 76 or later .To add i dont believe Sams had 69 haze stock himself .I believe Nevil was given the Haze hybrids that Sams created aka line he tried to save ,I also believe the haze he broght to holland was from his preservation works an he never sold the santa cruz stock to anyone


Another note is is beyond laughter to me that you an others would believe that Sams would give Nevil haze stock older that what he possed.Why would Sams give nevil 69 stock an keep a later one ?

Remember this if the haze contains thai ,it is not Ohaze from Santa cruz

Its obvious your not familar with the posted history from Sams or nevil .If your interested just do some research ,you can search the thread an type my name for further details .




1luvbigherb

"You are confused an confusing me Id would have enjoyed explaing better if you were as enthusiatic as you were nasty ."

um excuse me big herb but i am not the one being nasty here. both our posts are here to compare.

the problem is you dont explain, dont aswer the questions.

you do not know what your talking about, now you are trying to convince everyone that haze has no thai?

i'll tel you what im done with your bullshit sam promo. get off your high horse and give it a break.

a few other senior members have already called bullshit to your article and the 'facts'. im just stepping in as well as you have already shouted down the others.

i can tell you personally that nevil doesnt like being called a liar. he has already had his sam debate (and sams ever changing story on haze) , now your telling everyone that the original haze is the one with thai and south indian added 10 years after haze first came about?

you dont get it, cant see the real picture, however you say it. trying to bring down my intelligence to make yourself sound smarter, telling evetyone im nasty to make you sound nicer. you are quite the manipulist and its shows for anyone that looks into posts.

call me nasty again but if it you ask me your just spreading more lies and falsities to everyone other person trying to find out about haze. i wish the truth wasnt impeded as such. and no i do not like you for what you have done.


on the topic of origins,

"Saying that however, the older Malawi when brushed smells of worked leather and really old fashioned pipe tobacco. Reminds me of times when I was a wee boy visiting my Grandpa. I much prefer the more 'savoury' smells to some of the overly fruity, bairns sweetie aroma that I smell in lots of dutch strains."

i always thought that thai was breed from malawi. or introduced to local stock then breed and selected from that. its definetly possible.

cheers

 

[Namaskar]

I want to tell you I appreciate you have been a positive contribution an have stayed Focused on haze topic ,while all else occured


I know it was a punto Rojo X mexican maybe red hair .

It funny you ask because when he spoke about his long list of haze hybrids including something like Grail haze ,this had my eye .For a long time i took notice of his Description of haze bros haze aka original haze ,nobody really made a fuss about or even reported growing out stock but its been confirmed the stock is from Sams .Soo in my opinion its an intriguing fact/statement an id think reef is qualified to give a decent description of haze ,which is why i post his direct quotes to me below from threads i started to Reef at THC farm


side note

Reeferman was the first seed company aside from sensi that i had alook into thier catalog .I think if Reef hadnt had his personal issues he would have been a big positive influence in this community .This is in my opinion an experience ,I dont care much about his past but his work is somthing i consider worthy of takin a look at .when i had very little knowledge of cannabis it was easy to see his strains being sold in the Dam were of much higher quality than what was steadily available












Id say its interesting he notes AH as having Serious haze undertones ,considering he has some of the most recent haze stock from Sams .I have no idea of when the haze stock is considered to come from ,but what i mean is he is one of the most recent breeders/guys to obtain it .



1luvbigherb

Thanks for the info bro.Reef didn't know that it all began with Colombian Punto rojo, so he is right about that AH has serious Haze undertones.The Mex which is used in this variety is not the Acapulco Gold you mentioned earlier if the Mex used in AH is actually a red hair variety.I shall ask some growers who are totally Mex freaks if they know something about a Mexican red hair.

Namaste

 

[Hemphrey Bogart]

why does everyone have to be considered a liar if the information they were given was wrong?

who knows what sam gave nevil, just because 69 was on the bag doesnt mean it was seeds from 69, they could in fact be hybrids that sam made with 69 haze stock and thai, couldnt it?

nevil did some amazing things with whatever he was given.

Interesting.

Hey Big, can you give me your take on the following, please?

1. Is it possible Sams misled Nevil about the origin on the seeds he sold him? Is that even a possibility or no? Sams has not answered this question clearly, from what I've read. We know he needed money and telling Nev they were pure haze seeds from the last crops in the US would be a great selling point, no?

2. Where, in your opinion, did Sams get his haze seed if G said he didn't ever give Sams any haze stock? From RL? Did RL have the pure haze or hybrids?

Thanks.


HB.

 

[bigherb]

I dont think it could be spelled out anymore simply if you put a connect the dots puzzle in the middle herbie. Some people just don't get what they don't wanna get. Then they get mad if you ignore their inane questions and comments. Anyway, I wish we could delete the rest and stick the first part of it... anybody, anybody?

I appreciate your support threwout this ,your 100% correct in your above post


you have just reaffirmed that i need to ,do as i ask say my piece an move on

I honestly felt like i was talking to hempy explaining to this guy


1luvbigherb

 

[bigherb]

why does everyone have to be considered a liar if the information they were given was wrong?

who knows what sam gave nevil, just because 69 was on the bag doesnt mean it was seeds from 69, they could in fact be hybrids that sam made with 69 haze stock and thai, couldnt it?

nevil did some amazing things with whatever he was given.

I have explained this in Full

I didnt call him a lair i said he has lied ,my words were twisted as usual .If you recall its still all there remember no moderation .I only did it in attempt to defend myself an make a point .i could have handled the situation differently .

But again what ive touched on was fact public info which was contracdicted by both parties at different times .Which makes it a lie ,no matter how you look at it .Why ?if ?how ?when ? ,again i said the post/info were lies not that these fellas were liars .There is a difference in my opinion ,a lie can be told for many reasons according to the situation .A lair is someone who knowingly constantly tells false facts

who knows what sam gave nevil, just because 69 was on the bag doesnt mean it was seeds from 69, they could in fact be hybrids that sam made with 69 haze stock and thai, couldnt it?

That is very true ,Anything is possible


What people are forgetting is i keep sayin in my opinion ,But i will keep saying it because of facts i know . Nevil admitts they were hybrids an Sams has told us that thai was a later edition an thats just a piece of the many facts/post that support what ive said.Soo if anyone in their right mind believes that this stock containing thai comes from 69 ,They obviously havnt followed the information which has been posted from both Nevil an Sams


1luvbigherb

 

[bigherb]

Thanks for the info bro.Reef didn't know that it all began with Colombian Punto rojo, so he is right about that AH has serious Haze undertones.The Mex which is used in this variety is not the Acapulco Gold you mentioned earlier if the Mex used in AH is actually a red hair variety.I shall ask some growers who are totally Mex freaks if they know something about a Mexican red hair.

Namaste

Thanks for your post an sheding light in these dark situations

As for the red hair if i recall ,there was a Sk#1 red hair leaning hybrid offered again if i recall by sacred seeds .Id love to hear any thoughts or more info on the strain

I think Reef has some amazing genetics ,I hope he can get on his feet an maybe make his stock available once again

Mexican hasnt been reported to be seen in any of our hazes available .Ive long questioned wheter it was ever added at all .This is somthing only Sams can tell us more about .what i do know it was his doing/work an had to have happened in 76 or a later year


1luvbigherb

 

[bigherb]

Interesting.

Hey Big, can you give me your take on the following, please?

1. Is it possible Sams misled Nevil about the origin on the seeds he sold him? Is that even a possibility or no? Sams has not answered this question clearly, from what I've read. We know he needed money and telling Nev they were pure haze seeds from the last crops in the US would be a great selling point, no?

2. Where, in your opinion, did Sams get his haze seed if G said he didn't ever give Sams any haze stock? From RL? Did RL have the pure haze or hybrids?

Thanks.


HB.

Back on track ,this is one of the many reasons why i enjoy being here


Again anything is possible

He could have given him labels with dates that had no significance ,Because 66-68 had nothing to do with haze .He could have told him truth with non truths which is what i believe .Why becuase he has done it all his durations of being online .As ive said before ,i believe Nevil to be upfront an very honest i also believe his recollection is still sharp an on point .In fact look at this info below ,he admitts he didnt know what burning bush was (honesty ) an he admitts that he doesnt remember Sams sayin he grew the haze stock
himself (Sams which Sams never actually admitted to just enhanced his doings ).But he did think they came from in his words an old master .Now that shows Sams has given quite a bit of relating info am Nevil has a great memory .

Imagine if Nevil was still here an answering my questions Lmao

Well Bigherb, I wouldn't swear on a kilo of Haze Hash, that he told me that he grew them himself.
I seem to remember one batch had a number of years mixed together something like '66,'67,'68. A prominent ancestor was a thing called "Burning Bush". If Sam didn't grow burning bush then the person that did will be able to tell us more.

We know he needed money and telling Nev they were pure haze seeds from the last crops in the US would be a great selling point, no?

I dont believe/recall Nevil admitted Sams told him they were from the last crops .This line comes from his nl5haze description ,an was what i referred to as a lie .

we know the crops were grwon till 81 .Nevil knew he was given stock from 66 till 71 .Soo even if he thought the haze was grown till 71 ,the parents he used to sell his hybrids he admitted were from 69 .




In my opinion Sams post have been honest about where he got his stock ,he collected an asved as much seed as he could

I have not worked Original Haze as much as tried to save it, I collected as much seed as I could in the early 70's grew them and did free pollinations and did minimal selection to ensure I saved as many genes as I could. That was in the 70's & 80's now I have clones for the last 20 years. My O Haze is not done being worked on that is why I tell people to use it as breeding materials.

-SamS

What i believe is Sams was closer to R.L ,In my opinion its evident bu his post .I believe that when G and R.L had the fallout in 76 that Sams went to help R.L an was given stock to work with .I know R.L had pure haze he was G main partner .But the question is did he still have seeds stock from 69

In my opinion its possible that R.L had 69 seed stock yes but not very probable .Why because R.L wasnt around in 69



1luvbigherb

 

[jack hairy]

I have explained this in Full

I didnt call him a lair i said he has lied ,my words were twisted as usual .If you recall its still all there remember no moderation .I only did it in attempt to defend myself an make a point .i could have handled the situation differently .

But again what ive touched on was fact public info which was contracdicted by both parties at different times .Which makes it a lie ,no matter how you look at it .Why ?if ?how ?when ? ,again i said the post/info were lies not that these fellas were liars .There is a difference in my opinion ,a lie can be told for many reasons according to the situation .A lair is someone who knowingly constantly tells false facts




That is very true ,Anything is possible


What people are forgetting is i keep sayin in my opinion ,But i will keep saying it because of facts i know . Nevil admitts they were hybrids an Sams has told us that thai was a later edition an thats just a piece of the many facts/post that support what ive said.Soo if anyone in their right mind believes that this stock containing thai comes from 69 ,They obviously havnt followed the information which has been posted from both Nevil an Sams


1luvbigherb

not sure if you are talking about sam or nevil being the one that lied.
i was just referring to the other people that were accusing you of calling nevil a liar.
i see it as nevil passing along the info he was given, if sam lied it doesnt make nev a liar.

am i missing something?

 

[BudBo]

don't take this in offence please

hey all

i know we would all like to know the truth behind things but lets face it these plants were bred by people and not 1 person hasnt stretched the truth in their own way

I dont see why people argue over things that can never be fully proved

i think the bigger picture outa all of this is that Neville and Shantibaba have made the best haze hybrids out today whether their plants are exactly what are said to be doesnt really mean anything.

has anyone else made any haze hybrids close to as good as SSH Nevs Haze and Mango Haze without using parent plants from Nevilles and Shantibabas hybrids?

I haven't seen Sams come out with anything and i never here that his Skunk Hazes and their hybrids stand close to SSH or Nevs Haze

youd think that if sams has the originals hed be able to come out with mixtures greater or nearly as good as SSH and NEvs haze but yet we see nothing

Even if Nev didnt have the real Haze G13 Northern Lights hes one of the only breeders that have come out with hybrids that hold themselves just as good as there parents b4


So let stories be stories and believe who you want but at the end of the day whats the most sought after strains out today...in most peoples minds itd be SSH and Nevs Haze because they are proven potent strains

Take it easy and lets stop the drama we should all be together trying to keep expanding these amazing plants to their capabilities no matter what their genetic heritage is

Budbo

 

[bigherb]

not sure if you are talking about sam or nevil being the one that lied.
i was just referring to the other people that were accusing you of calling nevil a liar.
i see it as nevil passing along the info he was given, if sam lied it doesnt make nev a liar.

am i missing something?

If you missed it you wont see it ever


As you said it how you see it ,I cant explain much more

In the past week or two ,ive discussed these topics indepth aswell as in the past .I only answered you because of respect ,others i wont respond to especially not several times.

why does everyone have to be considered a liar if the information they were given was wrong?

Again its all there in this thread the last three pages the last few years of my post and post #650

Your post i feel was directed toward me ,no other reference


It's not nescessary to repeat myself over an over an over because this is what i have done threwout this thread and those who have asked the same questions still havnt understood

Soo you have made your opinion an that is cool an i have made mine an explained it 101%



1luvbigherb

 

[bigherb]

hey all

i know we would all like to know the truth behind things but lets face it these plants were bred by people and not 1 person hasnt stretched the truth in their own way

I dont see why people argue over things that can never be fully proved

i think the bigger picture outa all of this is that Neville and Shantibaba have made the best haze hybrids out today whether their plants are exactly what are said to be doesnt really mean anything.

has anyone else made any haze hybrids close to as good as SSH Nevs Haze and Mango Haze without using parent plants from Nevilles and Shantibabas hybrids?

I haven't seen Sams come out with anything and i never here that his Skunk Hazes and their hybrids stand close to SSH or Nevs Haze

youd think that if sams has the originals hed be able to come out with mixtures greater or nearly as good as SSH and NEvs haze but yet we see nothing

Even if Nev didnt have the real Haze G13 Northern Lights hes one of the only breeders that have come out with hybrids that hold themselves just as good as there parents b4


So let stories be stories and believe who you want but at the end of the day whats the most sought after strains out today...in most peoples minds itd be SSH and Nevs Haze because they are proven potent strains

Take it easy and lets stop the drama we should all be together trying to keep expanding these amazing plants to their capabilities no matter what their genetic heritage is

Budbo

I appreciate the mindset of the post

Just as the original haze poster says enjoy


Enjoy the plant thats whats important


1luvbigherb

 

[cannabisspfecund]

"Imagine if Nevil was still here an answering my questions Lmao"

nevil is still here, he has made comments regarding your thread. he doesnt like being called a liar. he doesnt get it, so sam lied about the age of the seeds? but nevils offerings won the awards?, remember mns is no part of the type of cups they are today. being conned to buy really old seeds that may not germinate? seems like a strange kind off con job.

the alternative option is nevils a liar incapable of creating a more credable tale to better cover his lies!


quit pretending. your a fool. so what year was haze first created? you are the expert, oh wait any year after nevils oldest seed i guess, wasnt south indian and thai added 10 years after the haze was first produced? doesnt that coincide with nevils recognition of what he called "first haze" from a 66 bag? the 9 month plus thai plant that took over half his grow room that had to be chopped early. it was then the 67,68,69 etc that he called all hybrids, and didnt find anything useful from 70's stock.

but wait bigherbs changed the story, now haze didnt exist until some year after nevils 6 years of seed stock was produced? haze had no thai before 76? the thai/haze connection that shanti, nevil and other oldies spoke about didnt exist, it couldnt, apperently mns haze is not haze or has no thai or both?

quit playing the victim. lol. victim of what? getting caught out for speading bullshit. just as sam has already.

you have not answered any of the real criticism in this thread, you have simply complaned to shati and attacked anyone that criticised what they believed to be incorrect or unreliable. this is supposed to be the"true origins of haze but you look though you posts and it consists of is 'thats a lie' heres the facts, "your story is wrong because I have thefacts!

doesnt work that way.

cheers

 

[Eugene]

Haze is 70's all day. I really can't believe it predates the early 70's. This thread is fueled more by nationalism than by Haze history. I really don't think Herb is being slanted or deceitful. Some of you all...will grasp onto anything to make it fit your view point. Herb...on the other hand...seems to be objective and spent his time doing his research. What benefit does it give him...to make up a bunch of bullshit?

Without a doubt....Sam brought the Haze genetics to Euro....Neville obtained some of the genetics and worked them into some legendary expression. I have no doubt in my mind that Sam knew the original growers. What's the issue? Is that in debate?

Whether Nev's lines won awards or not...which is better/more successful than the other...is a totally moot point. Has nothing to do with the origins....or Herbs's article. The dude has been totally gracious to y'all in this thread...gone out of his way to explain the info he printed. You dudes are not Nev or Sam....none of it really concerns your character....if you don't dig the thread....don't read it. Simple. Cut and dry. Haven't some you already written your own articles? Duly noted.

 

[ganja man1]

Haze is 70's all day. I really can't believe it predates the early 70's....

Is that why Jimi Hendrix done the song "Purpla Haze" in 1966

 

[Eugene]

Is that why Jimi Hendrix done the song "Purpla Haze" in 1966

That's about acid or micro dot dude. It is not about Haze weed. Pretty common knowledge.

 

[JetLife]

Anyone that says Haze didnt predate the 70's is a fool...

straight from my fathers mouth...

"i started smoking haze in 69. it was around for a little while before then, but EXTREMELY HARD TO GET A BATCH."

and i believe it predates 1970 as well.. the line had to be worked before it was released and sold....

 

[ganja man1]

That's about acid or micro dot dude. It is not about Haze weed. Pretty common knowledge.

Wiki quote...
"Hendrix himself denied the drug relation of the song claiming it to be merely another love song. He said that the line "What ever it is, that girl put a spell on me" is the key line to the lyrics..."

But I believe it's still about haze as in cannabis though, and people in the sixties was smoking it

 

[Eugene]

Wiki quote...
"Hendrix himself denied the drug relation of the song claiming it to be merely another love song. He said that the line "What ever it is, that girl put a spell on me" is the key line to the lyrics..."

But I believe it's still about haze as in cannabis though, and people in the sixties was smoking it

Fair enough...though I can't believe that lol. I'm 45 and maybe it's an urban legend...but we always were told it was about purple dots of mescaline. Either way....that doesn't support the case for the song being about Haze weed. Are we really going to base a dateline on a Hendrix song?

Maybe I am a fool...I'll grant that....but I've been living in California for all my life...and find it hard to believe that the California growers of the 60's era were doing a whole lot of specific breeding. True...I believe the initial crosses might have been started in the very late 60's....but what I'd think of as an actual unique line....probably did not evolve until the early 70's. That's why I say: Haze is 70's all day.

Shit man...a date on a bag or some stoner's memory. Shit gets labeled...mislabeled....nicknamed...given #s.....dates get fuzzy..

 

[coop]

Owsley sold purple owls which where lsd pills. It was about the same time as Hendrix's song.

This is where everyone thinks there would be a connection between the boel and haze...

 

[wonkadonk]

69 Haze Dudes!