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itsbenfun
Guest
It bothers me to have such confrontation when discussing a subject.
If I was rude I apologize.
My argument stands.
IBF
If I was rude I apologize.
My argument stands.
IBF
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what confrontation? you carry yourself well ibf. nor did i note any rudeness so by all means, welcome to the discussion.
it continues to amaze me that such a variety of members can read the same article yet have vastly different opinions on what they have read? first off, i do not see where bh makes any claims as to the veracity of this sequence of events? as a reporter, bh is only able to attest that he honestly chronicled the claims made by others and put them to print.
it is the cast of characters at our point of origin with the haze that must be questioned imo. some are not who they appear to be. bh has requested i not soil his thread with events that are at that point of origin but are cloudy at best. and i will respect his wish. in your research, you will not have to venture back very far before discovering that sams may not be who he claims to be? and this could be as good of a conspiracy story as anything in the mj world! the tale supporting the origins of haze was put together after the fact imo. the truth may never be found either. peace-biteme
it continues to amaze me that such a variety of members can read the same article yet have vastly different opinions on what they have read? first off, i do not see where bh makes any claims as to the veracity of this sequence of events? as a reporter, bh is only able to attest that he honestly chronicled the claims made by others and put them to print.
it is the cast of characters at our point of origin with the haze that must be questioned imo. some are not who they appear to be. bh has requested i not soil his thread with events that are at that point of origin but are cloudy at best. and i will respect his wish. in your research, you will not have to venture back very far before discovering that sams may not be who he claims to be? and this could be as good of a conspiracy story as anything in the mj world! the tale supporting the origins of haze was put together after the fact imo. the truth may never be found either. peace-biteme
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hempy
Guest
You know the main points of relevance here are just being ignored and thats okay to as it really dose not matter any longer as people will believe what ever they want to believe in the end and its there right after all.
But the facts are these like it or not.
No one knows what the make up of haze is there all guessing and that is the truth of it.
Sam for years sed there were only 2 haze brothers and now a month ago says there is a third.
Sam had posted and sed he gave the haze brothers the seed that they grew and used in haze well Sam was to young when haze was first developed or sed was developed.
Bigherbs source for the article G is a guy he knows nothing about and only spoke to him on the phone and big has sed Sam is not credible along with his information and yet then when Sam later changed his story from 2 haze brothers to now 3 big says Sam is now credible sorry it does not work that way.
Also a few of you say that the people in Amsterdam dont matter or should not be part of the haze history or haze story well sorry i see it different they are the ones that made haze famous in the first place and the ones that preserved it and spreed it far and wide for all to enjoy even if its in hybrid form.
The origins of haze is from unknown commercial growers the genetic make up of haze is also unknown so really its only credible history like it or not is from the point Sam and Neville got it.
And as most of you do not care about that time of history and after then really there is little if any left to say on this topic any longer.
But the facts are these like it or not.
No one knows what the make up of haze is there all guessing and that is the truth of it.
Sam for years sed there were only 2 haze brothers and now a month ago says there is a third.
Sam had posted and sed he gave the haze brothers the seed that they grew and used in haze well Sam was to young when haze was first developed or sed was developed.
Bigherbs source for the article G is a guy he knows nothing about and only spoke to him on the phone and big has sed Sam is not credible along with his information and yet then when Sam later changed his story from 2 haze brothers to now 3 big says Sam is now credible sorry it does not work that way.
Also a few of you say that the people in Amsterdam dont matter or should not be part of the haze history or haze story well sorry i see it different they are the ones that made haze famous in the first place and the ones that preserved it and spreed it far and wide for all to enjoy even if its in hybrid form.
The origins of haze is from unknown commercial growers the genetic make up of haze is also unknown so really its only credible history like it or not is from the point Sam and Neville got it.
And as most of you do not care about that time of history and after then really there is little if any left to say on this topic any longer.
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hempy
Guest
cannatari there is a reason why Neville's haze and all of Neville haze hybrids won cups and are favored by so many growers around the world still to this day and its not just down to good breeding it was due to the seed Neville got and was lucky to work with.
If Sam's haze was better than what Neville him self got and used then why has sam never won a cup or why are Neville's haze hybrids still more popular so many years after he made them than Sam's offerings.
You should not assume cannatari.
Elmer Bud
Banned
G`day Hempy
I remember you saying that you had not read Herbs article . Is that still the case ?
If so here it is for you go back and read it . It may help the discussion .
http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-shantibaba-mrnice/8434-true-origins-haze-bigherbs-article.html
Here`s a quote from the opening paragraph .
A lot of your queries are answered right there ....
Thanks for sharin
Elmer Bud .
I remember you saying that you had not read Herbs article . Is that still the case ?
If so here it is for you go back and read it . It may help the discussion .
http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-shantibaba-mrnice/8434-true-origins-haze-bigherbs-article.html
Here`s a quote from the opening paragraph .
A lot of your queries are answered right there ....
Thanks for sharin
Elmer Bud .
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hempy
Guest
Elmer i read his article and as i sed i dont buy any of his story or any of the story posted any more.
A journalists is only as credible as there sources credibility and there information that normally needs to be checked and found to be also credible and lets be honest and open here elmer what part of any of this do you believe and what do you and the rest supporting bigs article base your beliefs on.
It is commendable to see you guys support your friend bigherb but this is not about bigherb is it its about the history of a cannabis strain that has changed many peoples lives lets be frank here those that smoke a good haze hybrid often grow it out for very long times and hope to keep growing it for as long as they can because its that good.
Be a nice change to see people not over look the facts for a change and try to keep things honest and truthful.
A journalists is only as credible as there sources credibility and there information that normally needs to be checked and found to be also credible and lets be honest and open here elmer what part of any of this do you believe and what do you and the rest supporting bigs article base your beliefs on.
It is commendable to see you guys support your friend bigherb but this is not about bigherb is it its about the history of a cannabis strain that has changed many peoples lives lets be frank here those that smoke a good haze hybrid often grow it out for very long times and hope to keep growing it for as long as they can because its that good.
Be a nice change to see people not over look the facts for a change and try to keep things honest and truthful.
b0b_b1tch1n
Banned
i dont get it , why are you argueing about this hempy ? did your friend JessE have better sources ?
ive seen nevil post in these very forums that he indeed got haze seed from sam , and something like 7 of them sprouted , and they are actually the haze used in his hybrids
no i wont go find the posts for you , you can do that yourself , they are in this forum somewhere , maybe/probabally the grail thread
anyway hempy why dont you just leave big and his artical alone as you dont know anymore then what it says or have any proof that what it says is wrong , so in short ,,,, why are you argueing something you dont know the truth or complete history of from beginning to today ? is ,,, ah hell ill stop here , im sure its no use reasoning with you anyway
ive seen nevil post in these very forums that he indeed got haze seed from sam , and something like 7 of them sprouted , and they are actually the haze used in his hybrids
no i wont go find the posts for you , you can do that yourself , they are in this forum somewhere , maybe/probabally the grail thread
anyway hempy why dont you just leave big and his artical alone as you dont know anymore then what it says or have any proof that what it says is wrong , so in short ,,,, why are you argueing something you dont know the truth or complete history of from beginning to today ? is ,,, ah hell ill stop here , im sure its no use reasoning with you anyway
B
Brick Top
Guest
Unless people from Amsterdam can be proven to have been involved in the actual creation of the original Haze strains, not others Haze strains that later followed, there is no place for mention of them in a thread titled "The True Origins of Haze."
Origin:
or·i·gin/ˈôrəjən/
Noun:
The beginning of something's existence.
What you are doing, again, Hempy is misunderstanding something. You are confusing "origin" as meaning an extended, and possibly yet ongoing, history.
Origin is something finite, it is the very beginning, the starting point, when and where something began.
What someone else did in later years working with what had been previously created is in no way part of it's origin. And the thread is about "The True Origins of Haze," not a complete history of Haze.
And not crediting someone who later on in time after the origin of Haze who did exemplary work is not in any way insulting them or not a case of not giving them credit that is due for their efforts. They just do not have any credit coming for the actual "origin" of Haze.
If the thread was titled, The Complete History of Haze, than what you are saying would be totally accurate and others should be mentioned. But in this case that is not how things are.
Possibly you wish to alter or amend or expand the thread title to The Complete History of Haze so you can then bring more names/people into it and credit them.
But that is not what the thread is about and it is not what people are interested in. They are interested in the origin of Haze, which predates the efforts/work of those you desire to bring into the discussion.
Hemphrey Bogart
Member
He never won a cup? Maybe you meant to say he's never won a cup with haze? Sam won in the first high times cannabis cup in 1988 with skunk#1, no?
HB.
b0b_b1tch1n
Banned
my original post then 2 quotes from nevil , first one from page one of the grail thread and second one from page 2 ,,,,,,
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thumbnailgreen
Banned
you guys are really reaching aint ya (Pocketed some pollen )
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hempy
Guest
Hello bob well first off the minuet bigherb put his name to an article and had it printed and then had it published it exposed him to peoples comments and criticisms like it or not its not just all about praise is it bob.
It has nothing to do with Jesse bob and when i say i dont believe any thing to do with the haze story any more it means all of it not just bigs article.
Neville got the oldest purest haze a small point you are over looking there mate yes the oldest purest version of haze bob and that is why Neville's work to this day in the form of his haze hybrids are sort after by growers from all over the world the quality is the reason for there demand and that is due to the haze plants he found in that batch of seed bob that were used in theres hybrids.
I know the story Neville posted bob.
why are you even defending big bob all of you seam to feel this is a personal vendetta sorry i dont do them others as its all about the truth bob.
The truth is this.
For years Sam posted sed there were only 2 haze brothers.
Then bigherb writes a haze article even after he posted and sed he was never going to write one.
Bigherb posts and says that his info was by a guy he met on line thats the third haze brother named G who he got his story from on the phone.
Bigherb publicly posted sed that Sam is not a credible source of information we all know that and then after bighern writes his article and Sam posts and says yes there is in fact now a third haze brother bigherb turns around and calls Sam a credible source of information only because it supports his article.
Well i am sorry but thats just not good inuf is it bob.
Like it or not the only real credible information regarding the haze can only be sourced and tracked to the point of its arrival in Amsterdam and the work and lines that came from there that people could get and still can get most of them to grow if they chose to.
cannatari
New member
Quit putting words in my mouth, Hempy.
I did not in any way imply that Sam's Haze was better than Neville's nor did I state anything as fact which means that you're wrong for saying that I assumed. It is clear that I did not.
If anybody is assuming anything, it's you assuming that there is a need for you to go around judging everybody else's work and ideas.
Check your ego.
Peace.
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hempy
Guest
Well i honestly thort he never won a cup but your right.
1988 Cannabis Cup-Cultivators Choice for
'Skunk #1'
Cannabis Cup Winners - Cannabis Cup
But did he win any for his haze or haze hybrids ?.
have you ever asked your selfs why does Sam's original haze along with tom hills haze ever flower faster than a Neville's haze would i know i have since 2002.
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coop
Guest
Nev's Haze is a hybrid with phenos from 8-16 weeks?
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hempy
Guest
cannatari no ones putting wards in your mouth but your posting and acting like you know the truth when you dont and you posted this not me ...
Your thearys so how am i putting wards in your mouth cannatari.
How about you stick to the facts and stop trying to stear this from the facts at hand your mate bigherb is open to scrutiny and criticism fact.
Your tactics are clear here.
Elmer Bud
Banned
G`day Hempy
One thing I heard the other day on the radio . The fella said you don`t need to be a bank robber to be a crime writer ...
To me Big Herb is a lot closer to "the truth " than any of the chinese whispers that have been doing the rounds .
In the bigger picture what some guys did back in 69 has little relevance to me really, other than to read some interesting prose ,and some robust debate .
That SSH and Mango Hz are polyhybrids and can take from 9 to 15- 20 weeks shows me the diversity in the genetics .
I`ll roll the dice and see what pops out . The fact that is has haze on the label doesn`t mean much to me .
The proof of the pudding is in the eating .
Thanks for sharin
Elmer Bud .
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hempy
Guest
Really coop and when did you grow out pure haze to know this to be true please enlighten us.
Pure haze is sed to be a hybrid made up from pure sativas i hate to be the one to inform you on this coop but not one pure sativa i ever grew took 8 weeks to mature.
Next point i have grown out so many 50% haze hybrids and Neville's haze i think i can give an honest opinion here and to honestly say not one haze hybrid ever came in at under 16 weeks is what i saw but i did see 1 shithaze came in i think at 14 weeks but that was an exception.
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hempy
Guest
The One thing the on line community shows me daily is that you dont need to be a grower of cannabis to be an expert in cannabis as on line posters that dont grow can claim to be experts to lol.
C
coop
Guest
where did i say anything about growing pure haze in my comment?
Do the reports in the Nev's Haze forum have no validity on those flowering times?
Also another point for you to ponder. If Sam or Tom has a "pure" haze, it would be a min of an f5 (lets say they need to make another seed-lot ever 5 years for it to be viable) You can't compare an inbred line to an f1 hybrid.
And i grew homegrown fantaseeds haze years ago, 12-13 weeks of nothing. but one pheno had killer smoke, but only about 3 grams a plant.
I also have a 70 day nev's x mango. Thats a lot less then 16 weeks, and does have more haze then the other hybrids.
Do the reports in the Nev's Haze forum have no validity on those flowering times?
Also another point for you to ponder. If Sam or Tom has a "pure" haze, it would be a min of an f5 (lets say they need to make another seed-lot ever 5 years for it to be viable) You can't compare an inbred line to an f1 hybrid.
And i grew homegrown fantaseeds haze years ago, 12-13 weeks of nothing. but one pheno had killer smoke, but only about 3 grams a plant.
I also have a 70 day nev's x mango. Thats a lot less then 16 weeks, and does have more haze then the other hybrids.
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