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bigherb
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Everyone is entitle to there opinions
Im open to discussion ,but lets keep it respectful
I ask again if this thread can remain civil
1luvbigherb
Im open to discussion ,but lets keep it respectful
I ask again if this thread can remain civil
1luvbigherb
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cheesefucker
Guest
I think the story is true, the successful writer who was one one of the haze brothers reminds me of Jonathan Franzen he lived in boulder creek at the time and smokes pot. His a good writer and has three brothers and went to santa cruz college at the time. He also devided his time between New York and Boulder Creek. Coincidence hmmmm.
and i believe this story is also true in that these events are said to have occurred by others. bh is only recording these events in the sequence they were presented to him, so in effect he is mainly a reporter and he has written an article.
but one caveat; major players in this sequence are known to not speak the truth, or worse. and once their words are committed to print will not make these players any more honest imo nor does it make words truthful. but others see things differently? personally, i believe very little of what sams states as a version of events. i tend to believe he was a pimply faced low level gofer at that seed center who was allowed to talk for his walk. the dea was in its infancy and sams became one of their first mj moles. he attained his current guru status only with their help and guidance. one day the og forums may resurface? the question is 'with or without the old sams threads' left intact? it depends on what the real powers feel is important? peace-biteme
but one caveat; major players in this sequence are known to not speak the truth, or worse. and once their words are committed to print will not make these players any more honest imo nor does it make words truthful. but others see things differently? personally, i believe very little of what sams states as a version of events. i tend to believe he was a pimply faced low level gofer at that seed center who was allowed to talk for his walk. the dea was in its infancy and sams became one of their first mj moles. he attained his current guru status only with their help and guidance. one day the og forums may resurface? the question is 'with or without the old sams threads' left intact? it depends on what the real powers feel is important? peace-biteme
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bigherb
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bigherb
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Well put my brother
I want it to be understood to all that Sams had no part in my info presented in the article .I was eager to see a response from him an thankful he confirmed it aswell as took it kindly as to my respecting his contributions to the community .
Now sams an his relation to haze im open to Discuss but what some ponder on, that other Stuff i dont want to touch.
There has been much info on the net with the whole DEA thing Santa cruz bust Etc etc .I dont wish for anything on that subject to be spoke on in this thread .That is negative stuff an my hope an intention is for this thread to be positive an Haze related .
I hope you all can understand an respect that .
1luvbigherb
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hempy
Guest
With all due respect big you are only favoring comments from Sam or any person that is positive to your course that being your article and the truth of it like it or not is that your alleged source being G could be any one and more than likely not even grown a cannabis plant in there life for all you and we know.
here is Sam's post about your article.
And here is what you sed about Sam's favorable remarks about your article.
I find it disturbing that you discredit shanti me jesse british hemp and who ever else that dont Cohen Side with your story and you even discredit Sam yet when he posts supporting your article his now right and factual.
Face it big G your source was not posted about by Sam until you posted about it.
There is so much confusion surrounding haze its become sicking to be honest.
In all this the main facts have been left out regarding haze these being that haze was never breed in California it was created by chance and the real breeding and selection all happened in Amsterdam Europe and not California and yet more focus is placed away from were the real work was done and the preservation of this line be it in hybridized form why is that.
As a reporter why are you not interested in the real breeding of this line and why are few interested in those that breed it selected and preserved it for the people that still grow it today and yet all i see is people like you focus on the history that is never going to be related in its truth.
I believe what i was told by shanti in 2004 the guy does not lie his story has remains true since 2002 and before yet Sam story has not .
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coop
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And yet Sam's the only one still claiming to have/sell pure haze.....
what breeding on haze was done in Amsterdam? We all know it was used in hybrids, but news to the rest of us that its an IBL that everyones got.
what breeding on haze was done in Amsterdam? We all know it was used in hybrids, but news to the rest of us that its an IBL that everyones got.
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jwf
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Hello big herb, not to intrude(tell me if i do an ill remove). What is haze - ie a non historical definition, a botanical/ lineus if you like.
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hempy
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you seam to know it all coop so why you needing me to enplane it for you ?.
Why is there no pure haze available in the USA and all thats grown is ether from Neville or Sam's work.
Haze was created in the us by commercial growers they are the haze brothers.
They the haze brothers made haze by crossing there best lines to produce seed for next years commercial crop and struck gold.
The seed was taken to Amsterdam some years later were Sam and Neville along with others worked on it breed it selected so on as it was an unstable sativa hybrid.
The best was selected and gone on with and hybridizing done to create legendary lines like super silver haze Neville's haze mango haze And the Dutchman offering original haze being Sam's version.
But you knew that right ?.
Why are these peoples efforts and others that worked behind the sens not recognized or praised and yet all most seek to know about is the haze brothers that only were interested in there commercial crops.
To know the true story you need to know the hole story not selected parts i find it funny that no matter what people say its always about Cali and it really upsets people when it has to do with Amsterdam why is that.
And BIG
The New haze brother has 3 sources 1/sam 2/ you big and 3/ G who big spoke to on the phone.
Yet sam has changed his story's big well no offense your not credible as your just writing this down and lastly G well it could be dea for all we know so really this new article has no credibility..
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bigherb
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okay i will comment Respectfully an hope you can either converse or not post in here again
Just as Bh post you havnt added anything insightful Nor positive .
I always give credit where its due an you should give me abit
You shanti an all else you mention have nothing to do with the origins of haze .
I havnt favored anything this is not my story i just shared what ive been told and to me its till surprising that you and BH still dont agree to these verison of events .Those who dont agree can say what they wish (Respectfully i hope) but they havnt made any valid point Not one
What happened in europe had nothin to do with Original haze an what made it soo special it has nothing to do breeding when it was breded it became a hybrid .If Sams writes his book he can tell you all about it .
I give Sams all the credit in the world for what he has done but i will not give him credit for things he did not do .i have said this publicy an in pm to him .He knows my feelings an i understand his .I addressed the contradiictions an was given more insightful info an more contradictions lol .I will say again from my pm with him he has confirmed what ive stated and or thought in further detail
Simply Remember this
Which makes them a haze hybrid ,all haze with thai an S.indian .We all know that the haze Today expresses thai traits .Soo common sense Nevil haze stock was not from 69
I would enjoy pointing out to you all the post which imply what ive stated in the article an what ive assumed an made my opinion on Sams Role an the haze stock in the community .Its all common sense really an anyone who has followed would see it clear an understand it .But i know you would just insult me an talk about things not related such as your convo in 2004 .Its not possible to converse with you
I know the truth is hard to except ,You can believe what you wish
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXoNE14U_zM
1luvbigherb
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itsbenfun
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Didnt someone say his haze seeds were hybrids and half siblings at best?
Makes sense doesn't it.
No one will know the entire truth so leave it in speculation or in the AC theory. Or in the male driven line that became.
Makes sense doesn't it.
No one will know the entire truth so leave it in speculation or in the AC theory. Or in the male driven line that became.
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hempy
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Big firstly you need to fully understand you put your self up for scrutiny and criticism from the point you put your name to this article and then had it published as the truth as you saw it.
The facts are like it or not your source is a guy you know nothing about that you spoke to on a phone and Sam who for years posted saying there were only 2 haze brothers that were R and J.
And now magically theres a 3rd G.
And you also had sed in the past Sam is not a reliable souse of info yet now that his supported your article he now has become a credible source sorry it dont work like that big.
What i and Jesse and shanti and kas and even British hemp have gone with and posted haze info on was info from people who have worked with real haze big and posted about it and grown it for a long time not some guys info we got from on a phone you know nothing of.
Big even when Neville tells you something who we ow a lot to in preserving this line be it in hybrids you dispel all and any info he posts because it dose not fit you agenda and with your article or what you want to believe that is poor journalism right there big and bad form.
What happened in Europe was a huge part of the haze story like it or not big and its important and should of been part of the story as that is were the real work took place again the truth.
You dont know what a Thia plant is you wouldn't know a Thia plant if you fell in one mate i have grow lots and Neville did in fact grow out the early haze that is sed to be from 1969 you talk as if you grew these seeds out your self and you were there and yet you were not so why are you so sure about things you know little about big.
I know what the early haze looked like because i asked Neville it was described to me just like the early tripping weed looked like i first saw in 1979 and i have dated back to 73 so far here.
You could not grow such a line indoors with out having to weight close to a year to end up with leafy flower or even out doors you could not grow it in to many locations and haze was unstable not all haze was good but those that were good were selected from those original seed and worked with.
They then breed the selected haze plants to other lines to add meat to the flower of the haze and try to speed up the flowering times and they carried the haze high threw to the hybrids and that is why there haze hybrids have stood the test of time and are so favored by growers all over the world both indoors and out big.
Look at Neville's haze most phinos go 20 plus weeks i even saw Mango haze go to 17/18 weeks and there a 50% haze hybrid the truth big all any one expects and i am honestly sorry to inform you you added little of that to your article.
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itsbenfun
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Not true. Hybrids have have many levels of competition. 8 week to 16 week so don't get confused hempy.
IBF
IBF
bushweed
New member
I think a good argument has been made for the original haze being a backcrossed Colombian - punt rojo, but perhaps equally an argument can be made that the haze that became famous as the world's best dope, was the later hybridised model of Colombian, Mexican, Thai & Indian that was brought to Holland by Sam, and the Colombian, Mexican, Thai, Indian and Afghani that was disseminated around the world by Nevil.
If we look at the early literature of which there is little, haze doesn't get labeled as the world's best dope until well after the fact. This is understandable given that of the hundreds of tonnes of cannabis that were being consumed in the US every year - 0.000000001% was grown by G and RL In fact by the time R wrote about that Haze Bros New York visit in High Times, it was reported that they considered their best offering an indica!! Seems likely to me that the really good haze product was the later one offered by Sam.
Remember too, that Sam is on record as saying that the best landrace he ever encountered was Thai, which gives weight to the argument that the best haze was the later product that Sam contributed the Burning Bush to.
But the man who really entrenched the myth that Haze was the world'ss best dope was the man who grew the largest numbers of it to select from, and then crossed it to the best strains he could find.
That man was Nevil.
Anyway I don't see anything wrong with what bigherb has written. He expresses confidence in the information collected from his sources. Naturally this doesn't mean that the story is correct. But it seems uncontroversial enough and contradicts little of what we know about the original haze, which is next to nothing.
Do I think the original haze was the world's best dope? Not likely.
Do I think the original haze was the best dope being grown in northern California at the time? Quite possibly, I just don't think the select SE Asians could be finished in northern California.
Have a look at Ganja D's fine thread in the outdoors growing section of ICMAG. He couldn't properly finish of an SSH before the cool weather interceded.
If we look at the early literature of which there is little, haze doesn't get labeled as the world's best dope until well after the fact. This is understandable given that of the hundreds of tonnes of cannabis that were being consumed in the US every year - 0.000000001% was grown by G and RL In fact by the time R wrote about that Haze Bros New York visit in High Times, it was reported that they considered their best offering an indica!! Seems likely to me that the really good haze product was the later one offered by Sam.
Remember too, that Sam is on record as saying that the best landrace he ever encountered was Thai, which gives weight to the argument that the best haze was the later product that Sam contributed the Burning Bush to.
But the man who really entrenched the myth that Haze was the world'ss best dope was the man who grew the largest numbers of it to select from, and then crossed it to the best strains he could find.
That man was Nevil.
Anyway I don't see anything wrong with what bigherb has written. He expresses confidence in the information collected from his sources. Naturally this doesn't mean that the story is correct. But it seems uncontroversial enough and contradicts little of what we know about the original haze, which is next to nothing.
Do I think the original haze was the world's best dope? Not likely.
Do I think the original haze was the best dope being grown in northern California at the time? Quite possibly, I just don't think the select SE Asians could be finished in northern California.
Have a look at Ganja D's fine thread in the outdoors growing section of ICMAG. He couldn't properly finish of an SSH before the cool weather interceded.
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hempy
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Really well i have been growing haze hybrids since 2002 non stop and trust me i am far from confused.
I saw ssh plants go 18 weeks in flower even.
I did not see one Neville's haze come in before week 18.
All the 50% haze hybrids i grew the fast ones i called were around 14 weeks and they were shithaze and even some of them went to 16 weeks all the rest of the 50% haze hybrids came in from 16 weeks and up to 18 weeks.
Clones of the seed plants came in faster but not all some still took as long as there seed mums.
Some people have found faster i am talking of my experiences.
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hempy
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bushy they dont know what was used to create the haze line they believe it was Thia and columbine and later other lines were sed used over the first haze each year but no one knows for sure there only guessing.
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itsbenfun
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Good points and mine exactly. USA or ausie doesn't make a big difference. Outcross does.
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