The True Origins of Haze- BigHerb's Article

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Does this imply that he took a clone of the mother, then backcrossed it? In 69?

Skunk most famous lol maybe where your from :D

Please knwo im not the expert with canna terminology

From what i was told an understand the punto rojo was grwon out an females crossed to the male sof the same stock an from that many many seeds came about an were used threwout the history


1luvbigherb
 
Puday

Sup brother

Thanks for the positive vibez ,that was a great post

Its been a long road travel ,but im just starting my journey .Frank is out there wheter it be NYC or Down under ,im waiting to get reaquainted



1luvbigherb
 
Skunk most famous lol maybe where your from :D

Please knwo im not the expert with canna terminology

From what i was told an understand the punto rojo was grwon out an females crossed to the male sof the same stock an from that many many seeds came about an were used threwout the history


1luvbigherb

Your a smug one big considering you dont even grow cannabis.

Were bushy comes from and i come from sk was being imported in as far back as 1980 was when i first saw it so it was pre ducherfied sk lines.

But to even think that the lines used to make sk is related to whats used in haze is worse.

What do you base your information on big ?.

Were you there or was any one you spoke to there i bet no your using a source that has done what post on line correct.

Even those that have worked with pure haze dont know to much about the topic at hand.

Haze was created by commercial growers who made seed for there next season using there best sativa lines and they struck gold.

Each year the haze was different because they did not breed but made seed again for there next commercial grow and that is why it the haze changed from year to year after it was first made and why they say the first batch of haze was the best.

Then it went to Amsterdam were the real breeding was done and yet for what ever reason people like you do not want to acknowledge this and the truth that with out people like Neville Sam Shantibaba and a few more not one of us would be smoking or having it available to grow and smoke today even if its in a hybrid.
 
Four varieties, six flavours?

I like that you have been inquisitive

This was Sams Response to me an a first real description i have seen during my time online .When he said rootbeer i was blown away .But seems that those in the know referred to the purple haze as the rootbeer pheno .

A while after happyhi had given a more indepth description

Now im not sure what the question is really as you have given me descriptions of a single variety with a multitude of flavors .Which is what i have explained as indepth as possible in the article according to each variety


1luvbigherb
 
Haze was created by commercial growers who made seed for there next season using there best sativa lines and they struck gold.

Each year the haze was different because they did not breed but made seed again for there next commercial grow and that is why it the haze changed from year to year after it was first made and why they say the first batch of haze was the best.

Then it went to Amsterdam were the real breeding was done and yet for what ever reason people like you do not want to acknowledge this and the truth that with out people like Neville Sam Shantibaba and a few more not one of us would be smoking or having it available to grow and smoke today even if its in a hybrid.

did you miss all that in his article or did you not read it and just start slinging shit?
 
bigherb I enjoyed the article. I wish you had touched on the other strains that went into the Haze after the Puto Rojo, but it was an interesting piece. You know, you could keep working on it and fill in those gaps. Question I have is, are there any reports of red sap coming from Nev's Haze, Tom Hill's Hz, or any of Sam's offerings?
 
did you miss all that in his article or did you not read it and just start slinging shit?

I tried to read it but it was like reading a 5 year olds home work assignment coop so could not go the distance but i bet you did and found it soothing reading.
 
Your a smug one big considering you dont even grow cannabis.

Were bushy comes from and i come from sk was being imported in as far back as 1980 was when i first saw it so it was pre ducherfied sk lines.

But to even think that the lines used to make sk is related to whats used in haze is worse.

What do you base your information on big ?.

Were you there or was any one you spoke to there i bet no your using a source that has done what post on line correct.

Even those that have worked with pure haze dont know to much about the topic at hand.

Haze was created by commercial growers who made seed for there next season using there best sativa lines and they struck gold.

Each year the haze was different because they did not breed but made seed again for there next commercial grow and that is why it the haze changed from year to year after it was first made and why they say the first batch of haze was the best.

Then it went to Amsterdam were the real breeding was done and yet for what ever reason people like you do not want to acknowledge this and the truth that with out people like Neville Sam Shantibaba and a few more not one of us would be smoking or having it available to grow and smoke today even if its in a hybrid.

ahh , nice to be back onboard amongst the bitchyness ,
i was kinda missing it whilst quietly sitting in the jungle pruning copious amounts of fine cannabis (not) ..
id like to address a few points from your post ...

firstly bigherb not being a grower ,, how do you know??

secondly skunk having no relation to haze ,, again , how would you know??

third "even those that worked with haze dont know much ab out the top[ic at hand"????
who is that ,, and why ??

fourth
"each year was different because they did not breed"
so what is making seeds if not breeding ??

fifth ,,

'Then it went to Amsterdam were the real breeding was done and yet for what ever reason people like you do not want to acknowledge this'

ive asked this before ,, what happened to the haze in amsterdam ??
what real breeding ??
was nt the orginal used to make hybrids ???
so what work was done on the haze ???
 
I tried to read it but it was like reading a 5 year olds home work assignment coop so could not go the distance but i bet you did and found it soothing reading.

and reading you is like reading a 4 year olds home work assignments

Congrats to bigherb on being the bigger man
 
Ohh ,, my apologies ,,

i must thank bigherb for taking the time to research and write this article ,
i have only skimmed it so far , ill take time out to have a good read later on ,,

knowing what a blood hound youve been reguarding haze information ,
i m shocked how anyone could say you plagerised it ,
a lot of time and research has obviously gone into it ..
 
Your a smug one big considering you dont even grow cannabis.

Were bushy comes from and i come from sk was being imported in as far back as 1980 was when i first saw it so it was pre ducherfied sk lines.

But to even think that the lines used to make sk is related to whats used in haze is worse.

What do you base your information on big ?.

Were you there or was any one you spoke to there i bet no your using a source that has done what post on line correct.

Even those that have worked with pure haze dont know to much about the topic at hand.

Haze was created by commercial growers who made seed for there next season using there best sativa lines and they struck gold.

Each year the haze was different because they did not breed but made seed again for there next commercial grow and that is why it the haze changed from year to year after it was first made and why they say the first batch of haze was the best.

Then it went to Amsterdam were the real breeding was done and yet for what ever reason people like you do not want to acknowledge this and the truth that with out people like Neville Sam Shantibaba and a few more not one of us would be smoking or having it available to grow and smoke today even if its in a hybrid.

Please dont ruin this thread

Id love to talk haze ,but there is no conversing with you


Post #15 by bushy

I took as a joke

he quoted me

This accident would go on to become most famous cannabis strain of all time

Why would i talk about skunk if its a haze article ,Hence i thought it was ajoke an made one back .

Never once did i implie that skunk had parents from the haze

But if you would read an pay attention which you dont an cant .Sams post specifically in my thread would lead one to believe they are related .though i know its not true or possible

My information comes from a friend of G who was there still has contact with him an was kind enough to relate much of our shared convos soo this was second hand from a close friend of G.I also spoke with one of the 3 brothers who still lives in the cruz


I have decided without question this is my last response to you

There is just no talking you only talk to yourself i hav answered you with valid answers an foot notes /quotes /pages an references to back it up but you ignore it an just carry on with the same nonsense that has no point .


You are no one to speak on the origins as you have no clue about them ,you dont even knwo about mns haze origins let alone the actual Santa cruz haze


Who is they the haze was not different each year take a minute to read the article .anyone who has grwon the haze will tell you the leaf pattern was the same an always green but the differnce was the color of the flowers .

as i mentioned

The best plants were always volunteers from the previous year’s seed droppings


lets see what an if Sams has a response than you can assume with some credibility my story is bogus

say what you wish about me as you have for a long time now .but please do it in another thread

I ask again please dont ruin this thread
 
ahh , nice to be back onboard amongst the bitchyness ,
i was kinda missing it whilst quietly sitting in the jungle pruning copious amounts of fine cannabis (not) ..
id like to address a few points from your post ...

firstly bigherb not being a grower ,, how do you know??

secondly skunk having no relation to haze ,, again , how would you know??

third "even those that worked with haze dont know much ab out the top[ic at hand"????
who is that ,, and why ??

fourth
"each year was different because they did not breed"
so what is making seeds if not breeding ??

fifth ,,

'Then it went to Amsterdam were the real breeding was done and yet for what ever reason people like you do not want to acknowledge this'

ive asked this before ,, what happened to the haze in amsterdam ??
what real breeding ??
was nt the orginal used to make hybrids ???
so what work was done on the haze ???

you know wally for a guy that has basically grows c99 for most of this decade you really seam to feel your an authority on all lets take png gold as 1 example you posted and acted like you were an expert on this topic then after some info exchanges you finally admitted you were 6 when you were in png.

I am older than you wally and yet not one hour of a single day in all the years i have been posting on line have you shown me any form of respect and still i tried to show you respect when you ran over to this site even after years of calling shanti and Neville hacks strain herders and Neville a thief.

All i ever would of liked from you wally was mutual respect and nothing more but it never came life and like i loose sleep over that mate.
.
Reality is wally you have trolled me attacked me insulted me and acted smug like a few others and now again you try to once more.

If your such a good grower wally you to would of picked up from bigs posts he does not grow just from what he posts but the fact he has never done a single grow post or even posted a single picture says volumes and you try to deflect this truth please its useless.

As for sk not having a relation to haze well did you smoke sk in 1980 no you did not so you have no idea of what pre dutch sk was i did and it was nothing close to even a good haze hybrid of say 50% haze or would it even come close to a good mullum that is basically what you would expect from haze.

Making seed is not breeding is it wally you sell seed and you should know this more than most posting on this site or are you telling us you dont breed your lines and all your doing is crossing 2 plants and selling the seed from the pollination .

The work done in Amsterdam was breeding and pure haze was unstable as it was a hybrid so its my guess they worked on stabilizing the best quality's but i wasn't there ask those that were.

But even 50% haze can go 18 weeks in flower pure haze could go 40 weeks in flower and still not finish that is why it was hybridized but again ask those that breed it worked on it.
 
:D
bigherb I enjoyed the article. I wish you had touched on the other strains that went into the Haze after the Puto Rojo, but it was an interesting piece. You know, you could keep working on it and fill in those gaps. Question I have is, are there any reports of red sap coming from Nev's Haze, Tom Hill's Hz, or any of Sam's offerings?

Im glad

Please understand there are no other varieties in the santa cruz haze .The other varities mentioned were what ever Sams added after 76 .

I have pointed out many times countless reasons/post for my belief which was confirmed soild when G said he didnt give Sams haze seeds .


Almost forgot

Sams quote
If you were smoking Thai back east before you saw the Original Haze then it was a bit later then the Original Haze was first available


hooteroll quote

As Sam correctly points out:

If you were smoking Thai back east before you saw the Original Haze then it was a bit later then the Original Haze was first available.

My memory failed me. First Thai Stick we saw was in 1973 in Santa Cruz, lime green and so strong and electric we thought we were tripping (slightly). Over the years, as the popularity and demand grew, there seemed to be more dark green and gold sticks.


Soo how is it possible that 69 haze stock contains thai ???


Also these post below confirm that it cannot be true that the 69 haze stock contains date btw Sams is knowitall

Originally Posted by Knowsitall4sure / Cannabis World
When did you first see and smoke the Haze?
1971 for me
.

I gave the Thai and S Indian Kerala genetics to the Haze Bros to use and they did. They never did add any Ceylon (Sri Lanka) genetics and I am glad because the herb in Ceylon is crap. I lived and traveled in Ceylon several times, and spent time hunting local genetics. All the local sadhu smokers wanted S Indian ganja because it was so much better, they all complained about the lack of good Ceylon herb, and loved to smoke Kerala or Indian/Afghani hash. They all said that Kerala weed was much better then Ceylon weed, they should know.

-SamS

Im not sure what more proof is needed


Also these post below which intrigued me for sometime an finally made snese when learning aboout the split between R.L. an G in 76 .If you read Sams post he seems to have a better relationship with R.L. an his story was a bit differnt reguarding R.L.

quotes from Sams

Bottom line is if you want an almost Haze line that is stong and popular get Nevilles Haze, SSH, Kali Mist, Sage, or a dozen other Haze Hybrids that mostly used my Original Haze as a parent, directly or through a Haze Hybrid based on my Haze genetics available from 1976 from me
.


As for anyone (if I got this right) implying that Original Haze clones from 1969 are used, and alive, that is plain insane, there are no Cannabis clones from 1969, that is for sure. But maybe he meant seeds from 1969? And not grown until the 80's? To be honest I do not know, except the only Original Haze seeds sold prior to the 80's were mine, That I made after 1976. One way or another something is not correct about the 1969 date, and that is what you are going on. As far as I know all Nevilles work with Haze was from Original Haze he got from me, that's what he told me anyway, back in the 80's.

-SamS


quotes from nevil which gave em my thought that Mns haze stock was not pure cruz haze/haze bros haze but most likey hybrids with burning bush being at the top

After the first batch of '69 Haze seeds only produced 1 plant, I decided to plant the rest. This produced 5 plants A,B,C,D and E.
Plants B,D and E were females, of which B was the best. I tried all possible combinations and the best was B x C. BC was actually grown commercially alongside 5HzC1, so it was a 10/11 week plant. This fact alone indicated that HzB was a Haze Hybrid to something early. I suspect that most of BC's quality came from Dad.
I planted the rest of the old seeds. One came out. O for Omega. It was a 1970 seed. I suspected that it was only 25% Haze with one parent being Indica. It too did not really pan out

As I said before, I got a total of 7 plants from the original seed stock. They were all different. The Original female (the one that I didn't keep a clone of) and Haze male A, may have been siblings, but just as likely not. Yet there was a common Haze like thread among all of them. This tells me that there was likely no pure haze among them.


Well Bigherb, I wouldn't swear on a kilo of Haze Hash, that he told me that he grew them himself.
I seem to remember one batch had a number of years mixed together something like '66,'67,'68. A prominent ancestor was a thing called "Burning Bush". If Sam didn't grow burning bush then the person that did will be able to tell us more.
Everything useful was from before 1970. The one plant that came up from '70 batch, Omega, was at best 25% haze and didn't make the grade.
N

The best quote for Last ,burning bush was released in 81 soo that Doesnt make sense but explains volumes more that what i have revaled :D


I didn't say the bag was labeled burning bush. Sam said something about burning bush being an ancestor of the Haze. If Sam is Knowsitall4sure then he didn't smoke Haze til '71.
If that's true, what would he know about seeds made by somebody else 2 years before he had even smoked the variety?
N





I have had lenghty Pm discussion with Sams which also confirm my story an belief to a T.He has said things to me that havnt been said before an ill leave it at that


1luvbigherb
 
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Please understand there are no other varieties in the santa cruz haze .The other varities mentioned were what ever Sams added after 76 .

So the O haze was a Colombian landrace - punt rojo? interesting. A strain Charlie Garcia is working on at the moment.

What about Tom Hill's contention that his pure haze is predominantly Thai? Was that Sam's doing do you think?

As usual with the Hazestory, each bit of information/conjecture raises more questions than it answers.
 
As for sk not having a relation to haze well did you smoke sk in 1980 no you did not so you have no idea of what pre dutch sk was i did and it was nothing close to even a good haze hybrid of say 50% haze or would it even come close to a good mullum that is basically what you would expect from haze.
.

i smoked sk back then , and hempy if you actually did like you claim , you would know it knocked even the most seasoned smokers on thier asses , ive seen it turn 24/7 smokers green and once a friend even went white

i know an older man who to this day is still growing the late 70's early 80's skunk and one time i bought a baggy of it off him , i rolled a pin sized joint and smoked it with 4 other friends , one of them who wakes up not reaching for his alarm clock but reaching for the joint he rolled the night before , he continues his day smokeing joints like others smoke cigarettes , well this friend started puffing away like a mad man thinking he better get as much of this small joint as he can , we told him to slow down as it is killer stuff , he laughed at us ,,,,,,,

5 mins later he was sitting on a milk crate with his head in the palms of his hands rocking back n forth repeating over and over "im so stoned imso stoned"

ive offtin wondered if i got some seeds from this old dude and i sent them to shanti would he work with them as they put sk#1 of today to shame

peace :cool:
 
bigherb you want to gain some credibility and respect in this community my suggestion is start a grow post show all of us you grow and even if your plants look like shit and your grow skills are lacking then and only then will many members feel you even grow and smoke cannabis.

I really dont care any more about lots of what is being claimed in this and other sites threw the net or in Amsterdam by suite wearing biasness men that hire out growers to produce there seed and then they claim they breed and made the seed.

The true information that was the truth once has now been diluted and twisted so much that it is now broken and any real grower out there reading any of such articles as your bigs knows it.

Its really sad to see the evaluation of the canna community goes down hill in such a short time.

Being an author bigherb gives people the right to dissect your articles and the sources you used to obtain your info from so now you have finally got what you worked so hard for notoriety and dilutional fame well with that comes a cost and that my friend is scrutiny.

There are 2 topics in the cannabis community that in the last 10 years have never ever ended well haze and the g13 enjoy.
 
good luck to find the truth ! :)

i'm waiting for the grail !! hey nevil how is your work ?
 
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you know wally for a guy that has basically grows c99 for most of this decade you really seam to feel your an authority on all lets take png gold as 1 example you posted and acted like you were an expert on this topic then after some info exchanges you finally admitted you were 6 when you were in png.

I am older than you wally and yet not one hour of a single day in all the years i have been posting on line have you shown me any form of respect and still i tried to show you respect when you ran over to this site even after years of calling shanti and Neville hacks strain herders and Neville a thief.

All i ever would of liked from you wally was mutual respect and nothing more but it never came life and like i loose sleep over that mate.
.
Reality is wally you have trolled me attacked me insulted me and acted smug like a few others and now again you try to once more.

If your such a good grower wally you to would of picked up from bigs posts he does not grow just from what he posts but the fact he has never done a single grow post or even posted a single picture says volumes and you try to deflect this truth please its useless.

As for sk not having a relation to haze well did you smoke sk in 1980 no you did not so you have no idea of what pre dutch sk was i did and it was nothing close to even a good haze hybrid of say 50% haze or would it even come close to a good mullum that is basically what you would expect from haze.

Making seed is not breeding is it wally you sell seed and you should know this more than most posting on this site or are you telling us you dont breed your lines and all your doing is crossing 2 plants and selling the seed from the pollination .

The work done in Amsterdam was breeding and pure haze was unstable as it was a hybrid so its my guess they worked on stabilizing the best quality's but i wasn't there ask those that were.

But even 50% haze can go 18 weeks in flower pure haze could go 40 weeks in flower and still not finish that is why it was hybridized but again ask those that breed it worked on it.

wahooo there big fella ,,,

lets just see there shall we ,
and rather than we i ask u something and u ignore ,,
lets see some answers this time to back up your shit shall we ....

sooooo ive basically grown c99 for a decade ,, huh , , nothin else ??
u must know more than me about what im growing mate ...

png ,, acted like i was an expert ,, doubt it ,,
ive grown it , ,smoked it , and yes ive lived there , butg never did i claim to be an expert ,, i do have some inside info that many dont though given i have lived there and still have contact with people there , so whats your point??

never shown u respect ,, check the posts ive made to you ,, you better read them all ,, youll see your misreading again , and infact its you that has not shown me respect rather than the otehr way round ,, twisting things a little mate there ...

ok ,, show me where ive mentioned shanti and nevil ever in a bad light ,, ever ,, please point out the post ,, go on man , where are they , or are u getting me mixed up with someone else again mate ???

ive not trolled you ,, simply not agreed with you sometimes ,, huge difference there ...

how would my being a good grower have any affect on whethere another person grows ,, why would i care even ,, its up to big herb what he does and how ,, dont worry me in the least ,, but for a non grower /toker he sure seems to be aware of a few things dont u reckin??

what the heck , how do u know when i smoked skunk ??
and yes i did toke skunk before it went to holland , cal skunk ,
why would u be the only guy in the world to have ??

i think ud best look at the defination of breeding ,, it is making seeds man ,, dont matter how its done , the process is called breeding ...

so , show me where they stablised haze in this breeding program you talk of??

haze ,, 40 weeks , ,wow ,, are u sure you have grown outdoors ,, ive never ever ever seen a plant flower that long , , i think your talking of growing something out of its environment and the affect that has arent you ???
 
btw hempy ,,
i had an early nevils haze , ,which is 75% haze right?? ,
one was around 8 weeks of flowering ,, any comments ??
 
wahooo there big fella ,,,

lets just see there shall we ,
and rather than we i ask u something and u ignore ,,
lets see some answers this time to back up your shit shall we ....

sooooo ive basically grown c99 for a decade ,, huh , , nothin else ??
u must know more than me about what im growing mate ...

png ,, acted like i was an expert ,, doubt it ,,
ive grown it , ,smoked it , and yes ive lived there , butg never did i claim to be an expert ,, i do have some inside info that many dont though given i have lived there and still have contact with people there , so whats your point??

never shown u respect ,, check the posts ive made to you ,, you better read them all ,, youll see your misreading again , and infact its you that has not shown me respect rather than the otehr way round ,, twisting things a little mate there ...

ok ,, show me where ive mentioned shanti and nevil ever in a bad light ,, ever ,, please point out the post ,, go on man , where are they , or are u getting me mixed up with someone else again mate ???

ive not trolled you ,, simply not agreed with you sometimes ,, huge difference there ...

how would my being a good grower have any affect on whethere another person grows ,, why would i care even ,, its up to big herb what he does and how ,, dont worry me in the least ,, but for a non grower /toker he sure seems to be aware of a few things dont u reckin??

what the heck , how do u know when i smoked skunk ??
and yes i did toke skunk before it went to holland , cal skunk ,
why would u be the only guy in the world to have ??

i think ud best look at the defination of breeding ,, it is making seeds man ,, dont matter how its done , the process is called breeding ...

so , show me where they stablised haze in this breeding program you talk of??

haze ,, 40 weeks , ,wow ,, are u sure you have grown outdoors ,, ive never ever ever seen a plant flower that long , , i think your talking of growing something out of its environment and the affect that has arent you ???

Wally this is retarded mate you are defending the um-defenible here you do relies this right.

Why are you even attacking me here wally rember you went me not me you as you always do and did and why are you not also pointing out bigherbs not posted a single picture or a grow thread ever.

Your a grower wally are you seriously believing that he is a grower ? britishemp who bigherb were buddy's with and then had a fall out with posted and sed bigherb was a kid a young guy so how in gods name does a guy that was not even born at the time of haze that does not grow or has ever posted any grow info or a picture of a plant claim to be a haze expert.

And why are you even trying to deflect this by targeting me wally.

Post after post wally you come in and start on me from growing indoor sativas to any fucken topic i post on and yet you never posted a indoor picture of a pure sativa to justifies even the rubbish you were posting in that topic alone you my friend are trolling me and as a result looking really childish.

I have been growing longer than you wally i have helped more growers than you and you cant even treat me as an equal can you why is that.

I have treated growers that crack there first seed as equals and will always yet some of you in here think you above the rest well your not.

You guys can bow down to bigherb me i wont i will bow to those that deserve it.
 
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