SSH and Mango Haze are pedigree breeds incorporating both sides of Haze A and Haze C combinations....in their breeding

ok, so let me be more clear.
i was saying mhi was bred for faster flowering.
sarcasm doesnt carry so well sometimes.

the point of the thread was to point out inconcistencies in what we are told.

we finally get an answer about the afghan haze being haze C, but then he adds this new statement that is very confusing.

i dont doubt that an nl5 x haze C mom could/is used in mango haze, i just meant from my experience with it that the haze C is not very dominant in the cross, and along with the new statement, could be interpreted as SSH and MH having both sides of haze A and haze C in their breeding, as in SSH is haze C side and Mango Haze is Haze A side.
i dont think that is true, but it wouldnt surprise me if it turned out it was.

now what i think the statement meant, was that NH and Mango haze both have A and C in combination.
but what was said was SSH and mango haze have both sides A and C.

its a very simple statement to make, for someone who does things that are "so complicated that most of us would not understand", why cant such a simple explanation be told clear and concise?

we wouldnt have to speculate about the meaning of his words if he didnt make confusing statements.

let me ask every member of mns this:
do you understand what shanti meant in that statement, and if so please explain it to me.

its ok to make mistakes, but dont let those mistakes spread and fester.

we dont want our interest curbed, we want it nurtured.
 
I have been growing for 20 years now, but on mns forum for almost the last decade.
i was growing this great jack cut before mns was even a thing.
The jack herer has definitely affected my opinion.
if nevil was right, and it is the same pedigree, then the difference comes down to that male selection.

knowing C5 takes about 90 days, to have a 67 day plant would require some fast flowering genes from the dad, or a very rare recombination of genes from the nl5 ancestry. or even a recombination of genes from the dad and mom, even if both were a little longer flowering.
i didnt select for fast in my skunk haze male, but that is not that important to me.
 
one version was a tester release, and the other version is what actually was sold to the public.
someone should go and put an edit next to that description explaining the situation and the real pedigree to avoid confusion for all those that come across that info.
 
jack hairy said:
ok, so let me be more clear.
i was saying mhi was bred for faster flowering.
sarcasm doesnt carry so well sometimes.

the point of the thread was to point out inconcistencies in what we are told.

we finally get an answer about the afghan haze being haze C, but then he adds this new statement that is very confusing.

i dont doubt that an nl5 x haze C mom could/is used in mango haze, i just meant from my experience with it that the haze C is not very dominant in the cross, and along with the new statement, could be interpreted as SSH and MH having both sides of haze A and haze C in their breeding, as in SSH is haze C side and Mango Haze is Haze A side.
i dont think that is true, but it wouldnt surprise me if it turned out it was.

now what i think the statement meant, was that NH and Mango haze both have A and C in combination.
but what was said was SSH and mango haze have both sides A and C.

its a very simple statement to make, for someone who does things that are "so complicated that most of us would not understand", why cant such a simple explanation be told clear and concise?

we wouldnt have to speculate about the meaning of his words if he didnt make confusing statements.

let me ask every member of mns this:
do you understand what shanti meant in that statement, and if so please explain it to me.

its ok to make mistakes, but dont let those mistakes spread and fester.

we dont want our interest curbed, we want it nurtured.
Click to expand...

While clearly sarcasm doesn't translate on the internet.
So you set up this thread to display you comedy techniques?

You don't doubt that haze C mum *COULD* be used ??
So you still aren't sure that it is used??
You are hinting pretty strongly you don't believe it has haze C at all.

Why does mango and ssh run to cat piss ( a consequence of crossing hzC onto hzC ) if one is pure A and the other pure C?
It would run to fire bro, and Shanti would obviously offer this cross.

The haze A was a bit scary stone, uncomfortable was it's description actually. But mango isn't, so you base your opinion on chemotype or just phenotype?

What is still causing you to believe that it is haze A??



You don't have to speculate, you do it from choice.

Most members here would accept that C5#122 is C haze Jack. Totally new one to me that you think mango haze is nl5/hazeA)(hazeA*skunk.
What are you basing this hunch on exactly?




If you are honestly convinced that mango is haze A, then just proceed as such.

But Jack, what difference does it even make to you?
How will you use mango haze differently.
If it is haze C you wil?????
Haze A you will use it differently how?????

Please don't ignore those last questions, as I would hate to think this thread is about a moan fest with poor comedy asides.
 
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Quote from Nevil
The only good haze that hit the market was from two males A and C.
Hz C male produced 5Hz1 which won a Cup or 2, this was a daughter of NL5 which won a cup. 5Hz1 when crossed with Sk1x HzC produced Silver Haze which won a Cup. Ben renamed it Jack Herrer. Somebody else renamed it Diesel. 5HzC X Sk1Hz C was not as good as 5Hz1. Mango Haze (5Hz122)is a full sister to 5Hz1 and these two were the best out of tens of thousands.
Haze A produced 5HzA2 (5A2) and was featured on the cover of the 1990 catalogue and is the mother of Nevil's Haze, the father being HzC.
If you are smoking any good Haze, I'll bet you London to a brick that it comes from Haze A or Hz C or both!

I copy, and pasted this to my desktop so I can remind myself any time, or share any time...
I should be able to retain it finally, and grasp the shit lol..
 
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The only thing that makes me think mango is all haze A would be shanti's statement, otherwise i tend to beleive what we have already been told, that it is NL5/HzC x Skunk/Haze A.

from my experience with growing it, i said i would believe it if he said it was A on both sides, however that doesnt change the fact that it is probably still NL5/HzC mom.

anyways guys, we almost got back to a modicum of civility, can we at least keep it there? it gets really boring reading people argue when there is no one listening to each other and replying to questions asked.

I personally dont care as much for the A side, i think the C is what i like.
so dont you think that could make a difference in the choices i make on what to grow, whether a plant has a or c or both?
and whether it is on the male or females side?
i would prefer to continue the Haze C as the sire line and therefore need males fathered by C. and hybrids of the f1's also need good selection to find the C dominate males.

I think NH is the good option though, because it has C as the father but also has NL5 and haze A. i dont dislike the A characeristics, but they make it harder to distinguish between A or C and then NL5. with the other f1's it skunk or haze, afghan or haze, nl5 or haze.
but the percentage of NL5 is reduced, compared to the 50/50s.
and i dont really need much NL5 in there, so that is a good thing.
i would rather have A than skunk, afghan, g13, or NL5.
thats the difference between Mango and NH, mango should be 25% of the four strains, where NH has no skunk and 25% more C.
 
NHM gives me the chance to look at the type of cross that i think could/should be better than SSH or jack herer, and with selections that shanti made.
it will be a good benchmark.

but i will be able to make a lot of different versions and a lot more of them, so at least i can go through larger numbers for selection and hopefully find better plants than the average of what ive been seeing.
i take say ten plants and narrow it down to the best.
do this again and again with different strains, whatever, every plant is another chance.
so the plants i hold now are the best out of a few hundred, but they still arent quite there. and which ones are the best out of them? starts to become hard to judge.
i dont know that making mixes of them will be able to change that, but im willing to try.

knowing that what i saw before was at least likely mothered by C5, the male side is what i need to find.
so C5 x NH may be the best place to look. i may not get a 67 day plant out of that mix, but if i can get something in the 80-90 that has the traits, or even if it takes 120, ill be happy.
 
Vlad the Inhaler said:
Last thing I want to say on this to you mate.
If ssh was a nl5/hzC f1 bred to a skunk/hzC f1 it wouldn't consistently finish at 9 weeks.( *CONSISTENTLY FINISH <70 DAYS*) It would throw from 8-17 weeks.
If mango was a nl5/hzC f1 bred to a skunk/hzC or hzA f1 it wouldn't consistently finish at 10 weeks either.
But ssh was designed as a quick finishing commercial haze polyhybrid.
The same as mango is a quick finishing haze polyhybrid.

I put my logic up.
You don't have an open mind to even consider it.
A hz f1*hz f1 would throw shit every which way.

I'm not stating it as gospel fact, it is merely theory. How could I know anymore than you.
It is Shanti and Nev business. And neither of them are speaking up on it.
For all I know what you call a5 and c5 could be S1 anyway. Who can even say what people are holding after 30 years. Would most people holding c5 or a5 truly know?

But I'm not as invested as you.
I'm happy to trust Shanti and MNS to provide me with the best available haze stock @2020. Whatever it may be.

If you truly wanted to debate, you would be gracious to others, to try and understand their logic.
And keep an open mind.

Take care Jack.
And good luck with your gardening.
Click to expand...

G `day VTI

NL #5 x Hz C F1 x SK HZ F4
Early and resinous male father of SSH .

Thanks for sharin

EB .
 
Pyran said:
From my little experience, and if we have the same "view" about what is an "incense" pheno, here what I can say:

Afghan Haze: I don't remember them being "incense" but more lemony/pine, but I did not grow this strain so much. Buds were more dense than SH
Skunk Haze was metallic but I had one very Haze leaning, citrus/pine the same way C5 with this after taste a bit "metallic". Lot of diversity (F1??).
SSH: Not so much experience with her, only a few seeds popped. I remember them being a good mix with some good yielding one, but I did not find a good one.
NL5xHaze: Maybe a good bet to find an incense one, some were clearly pine/citrus, but some has this kind of incense odor, especially when it's burning, when you are entering the smoking room you can smell this special odor, church like.
MH: I spend quiet some time with this line, and most of them had a "mango" kind of taste, late to finish (100 days approximately) and despite this fact, buds were quiet dense/compact. Not so much diversity in taste, to me it is the most "stable" MNS strain I grew, and I don't believe it's F1 cause of it.
I did MHI too but I can remember only one girl, a good one, long spears, good yield, late finisher, taste was a bit different from MH, and less compact. If I remember correctly I had other MHI and they were less dense than MH too.
Finally NH, few girls popped, I had one very C5 like but denser, good yielding and long flowering, one was quicker (80-85 days from seed) with corn style bud, dense, and a strange nut/earthy taste. I also found one very very similar to the one I call 5C122, same shape, very stretchy, and almost the same taste (a bit darker/less nice/smooth than 5C122). Lot of diversity and a good work of selection but you can find some gems for sure....

I agree the C5, A5 and 5C122 I have could be S1 (fem?) or not the original, but I trust people who gave them to me. According to that, I found C5 and A5 very similar in many way and on the other hand, 5C122 was the one I prefer and quiet different too. More tasty, really special....

Concerning Incense pheno, I would say it's more a Haze C thing than Haze A, but I can be wrong. And I would go for NL5xHaze or NH or maybe AH, NH would be the most difficult with more selection work.
An other guess, I think if Jack Herer was so special back in the day it's of course because of it's good mother (NL5xHaze?) but especially the father. How many seedlings were made with NL5xHaze as a mother? I think a lot. But I have always heard about how Jack Herer was special. This match between this mom and this dad was something "different".
Click to expand...

Hey Pyran.
Thanks for this cool info.
It certainly looks like a hzC thing.
Do you know anything about the Jack Herer cinnamon phenotype?

S1, selfed is fem, yes.
 
Mango Widow
NL / Haze / Skunk x Brazilian / South Indian

Mango NHS ?

https://mrnice.nl/auctions/product/mango-widow-43/

Nevil`s Haze x Mango Widow
V8nAHOp.jpg
 
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Definitely wanna get mango widow.. hopefully I don't lose my account and all the auction wins because of 2 month timer... Anyone know anything about the 2 month deadline for auctions?
 
jack hairy said:
The only thing that makes me think mango is all haze A would be shanti's statement, otherwise i tend to beleive what we have already been told, that it is NL5/HzC x Skunk/Haze A.

from my experience with growing it, i said i would believe it if he said it was A on both sides, however that doesnt change the fact that it is probably still NL5/HzC mom.

anyways guys, we almost got back to a modicum of civility, can we at least keep it there? it gets really boring reading people argue when there is no one listening to each other and replying to questions asked.

I personally dont care as much for the A side, i think the C is what i like.
so dont you think that could make a difference in the choices i make on what to grow, whether a plant has a or c or both?
and whether it is on the male or females side?
i would prefer to continue the Haze C as the sire line and therefore need males fathered by C. and hybrids of the f1's also need good selection to find the C dominate males.

I think NH is the good option though, because it has C as the father but also has NL5 and haze A. i dont dislike the A characeristics, but they make it harder to distinguish between A or C and then NL5. with the other f1's it skunk or haze, afghan or haze, nl5 or haze.
but the percentage of NL5 is reduced, compared to the 50/50s.
and i dont really need much NL5 in there, so that is a good thing.
i would rather have A than skunk, afghan, g13, or NL5.
thats the difference between Mango and NH, mango should be 25% of the four strains, where NH has no skunk and 25% more C.
Click to expand...

I get what you are trying to do.
But have you read where Nev and Shanti said time and again that crossing haze into itself makes it run out of puff?
In quarter horses look at the way they line-breed Blue Valentine. You can still get horses line-bred to him with almost 50% blood. And they still maintain his quality.

I think bubblegum strain may be a ssh line-breed.
Strawberry banana (banana og/bubblegum) has really high thc%, but no real zing.
It is quite pleasant.
So starting with NH/MH just takes you one more gen to breeding out.
I think you got to go back in time, if you can.
Like MNS NHS (not hzC on male line, unfortunately) but as Pyran said, a true f1 with variability.
Or someone's excellent selection of haze/jack cut crossed to something that won't sludge it. Does Shanti still have any SSH/WID laying around?
If you just want a fire cut, you might be able to just crack heaps of beans until you find her.
Trying to stay as close in generation to the original breed stock as possible.
Only real reason you need to roll your own is to give beans away.

Cos you like Charlie G's stuff also, have you thought of out-crossing.to destroyer?
It's punto rojo*oaxaca )( thai.
One chemotype is pleasant and destroys depression.
The other is like the Thai, and destroy you.
It is high in thc and has tiny trichs, so you know it's legit sativa. -/+90 days. It's adequate out-cross for haze.
 
Or even a Destroyer/la Nina.
This would give you Kerala, Colombian, Thai and Brasilian, combined with the Thai, Mexican and Colombian of destroyer.

Unless you can get a time machine and go back to grab haze beans, that horse may have already bolted.

Nev was talking about progressive development of haze.
He clearly believed it couldn't be developed to a higher degree by conservation.
 
Super silver haze and mango haze and what shanti calls a/c were all original made in 95-97 they all use the same father...if another parent plant is used from a different line at anytime in the breeding of these pedigrees it becomes a different strain..meaning no longer super silver haze, mango haze or a/c. Nevil said the pedigrees were. super silver haze = c5hz(1) x skhz-c
Mango haze.= c5hz(122) x skhz-c
A/C = a5hz (2a) x skhz-c
He clearly stated there was only one difference between super silver haze and mango haze and thats what I see above..so why are people trying to make out there are more differences or that the parental plants were changed at one point in time or another.
 
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