LED tutorial forum

[BrotherBoris]

I see a lot of talk about LEDs and learning curves, problems, results etc and it seems to me that a LED tutorial forum may be a good idea. Some guys have had excellent results and others are still learning or haven’t had great success. I’m waiting to learn more. Not sure about all the YouTube guys as many get free lights to test and promote but there sure seems to be some excellent results. Plus, I’d like more real information on every aspect of using them. Growth, taste and potency are what we are all looking for. Advice and experience is always welcomed.

 

[DannyTwoJoints]

Hey @BrotherBoris I'm a couple of years into my LED learning curve and like everything else in growing, there is no one size fits all advice that will suit every growspace or climate.

I've grown from seed to harvest with just LED, and with LED + CMH (Having retired my HPS & MH rig) in small tents in an unheated shed @54N, so long cold winters & short humid summers.

I'm just sourcing some new 400/600w HPS digital ballasts for next winter flowering as I'm having to use supplemental heat with the LEDs at this time of year, negating any power saving and adding unwanted clutter to an already tight space.

The LED/CMH combo is really sweet. Good fast growth & dense buds.

I'm running LEDs @ 20/4 for my mothers and any autoflower runs.

The most important thing I've learnt about using LEDs is to really keep an eye on your soil/hydro solution temperatures. The leaf goes into overdrive with the intensity of the light, and it can be hard for the roots to deliver nutrients quickly enough if the soil is too cold. I thought I was having pH lockout issues/deficiencies that were sorted by increasing soil/nutrient temp.

 

[Diesel840]

The most important thing I've learnt about using LEDs is to really keep an eye on your soil/hydro solution temperatures. The leaf goes into overdrive with the intensity of the light, and it can be hard for the roots to deliver nutrients quickly enough if the soil is too cold. I thought I was having pH lockout issues/deficiencies that were sorted by increasing soil/nutrient temp.

Do you think keeping a simple heat mat underneath would suffice?

 

[Swifty]

I see a lot of talk about LEDs and learning curves, problems, results etc and it seems to me that a LED tutorial forum may be a good idea. Some guys have had excellent results and others are still learning or haven’t had great success. I’m waiting to learn more. Not sure about all the YouTube guys as many get free lights to test and promote but there sure seems to be some excellent results. Plus, I’d like more real information on every aspect of using them. Growth, taste and potency are what we are all looking for. Advice and experience is always welcomed.

Good idea BrotherBoris,

i will contribute with my own findings when i have some more time.
I did a lot of research and thought i was ready for LED but my few grows left me very confused and now I want to get to the bottom of this.
This thread will be a good place to gather more insight and hear others experiences.

like @DannyTwoJoints stated, CMH+LED is a golden combo for me also.

 

[DannyTwoJoints]

Do you think keeping a simple heat mat underneath would suffice?

Seems to do the trick for me!

 

[Apollo]

Led is as easy as the Hp or Md if you grow organically and your soil is alive and can produce nutrients its self,
Also if in some waterings add only sew weed extract no nutrients will help alot with cal mag adjustments intakes.

Very good airflow also have helped me ( double from what is recommended for led)
Far red is the issue if is to near the canopy and if you have UV and infrared then it gets more complicated

Keep it organic I will say as number one Key to success .

I hope this helps.

 

[BrotherBoris]

Good idea BrotherBoris,

i will contribute with my own findings when i have some more time.
I did a lot of research and thought i was ready for LED but my few grows left me very confused and now I want to get to the bottom of this.
This thread will be a good place to gather more insight and hear others experiences.

like @DannyTwoJoints stated, CMH+LED is a golden combo for me also.

Whenever you’re ready Swifty, your learned knowledge and experience will be a great help everyone.

 

[BrotherBoris]

Hey @BrotherBoris I'm a couple of years into my LED learning curve and like everything else in growing, there is no one size fits all advice that will suit every growspace or climate.

I've grown from seed to harvest with just LED, and with LED + CMH (Having retired my HPS & MH rig) in small tents in an unheated shed @54N, so long cold winters & short humid summers.

I'm just sourcing some new 400/600w HPS digital ballasts for next winter flowering as I'm having to use supplemental heat with the LEDs at this time of year, negating any power saving and adding unwanted clutter to an already tight space.

The LED/CMH combo is really sweet. Good fast growth & dense buds.

I'm running LEDs @ 20/4 for my mothers and any autoflower runs.

The most important thing I've learnt about using LEDs is to really keep an eye on your soil/hydro solution temperatures. The leaf goes into overdrive with the intensity of the light, and it can be hard for the roots to deliver nutrients quickly enough if the soil is too cold. I thought I was having pH lockout issues/deficiencies that were sorted by increasing soil/nutrient temp.

Useful information Danny. Thanks. How about distance from canopy? I see guys talking about dialing down intensity. Any advice on adjusting the spectrum? Thanks again!

 

[BrotherBoris]

Led is as easy as the Hp or Md if you grow organically and your soil is alive and can produce nutrients its self,
Also if in some waterings add only sew weed extract no nutrients will help alot with cal mag adjustments intakes.

Very good airflow also have helped me ( double from what is recommended for led)
Far red is the issue if is to near the canopy and if you have UV and infrared then it gets more complicated

Keep it organic I will say as number one Key to success .

I hope this helps.

All info helps Apollo. Thanks for adding some of yours.

 

[Skuncle Lenny]

I’ve used LEDs for 8+ years and have seen the evolution of the quality. That said, low end/inexpensive lights give low spectrum depth and aren’t worth it. Invest in a good bar system for your space with dimming, and get a light meter to use for the canopy.
I’ve had great success in used market for lights, knowing that grows end often and people frequently over indulge

 

[CanaViper]

started a thread instead of this post

 

[Freedom_Fighter]

I see a lot of talk about LEDs and learning curves, problems, results etc and it seems to me that a LED tutorial forum may be a good idea. Some guys have had excellent results and others are still learning or haven’t had great success. I’m waiting to learn more.

Hi BB,

The best thing anyone could do, imho, who is really interested in LED gardening, and prepared to learn the tech, (in order to size-up & compare the different lights out there,) and optimize their grows, would be to sub to the Dr. MJ Coco and MIGRO YouTube channels. There's a great wealth of knowledge on those 2 channels alone.

LED Grow Light Physics || Dr. MJ Coco

The CFC Grow Light Guide
https://www.cocoforcannabis.com/grow-light-guide/

Neither of them have tested every LED grow light on the market; nor would they ever, as there is a lot of low budget garbage out there, not worth their time & effort; and some extremely high end light makers who would never submit their gear to them, for public review.

Not sure about all the YouTube guys as many get free lights to test and promote but there sure seems to be some excellent results.

Yes, a lot of YouTubers promote LED lights these days, and there's nothing wrong with that, as long as they're keeping it real; not making blatantly false claims about them that can't be backed up by fact(s).

MIGRO, for example, is an LED brand owned by Shane Torpey, but he's not out there claiming his gear is the best value for the money. He readily admits his lights are mid-level quality, and that there are other brands which are better value for the money than his own. In other words, he's as credible as they come. He collaborates a lot with Dr. MJ Coco, and so I place them both ahead of all other review channels on YouTube.

According to Torpey, many light companies send him their gear to review, much of which he rejects straight out of the box, as soon as he looks at them. Doesn't waste a minute on testing them; but all lights that are sent to him get returned, even the good ones that get reviewed. He keeps none of them.

Plus, I’d like more real information on every aspect of using them. Growth, taste and potency are what we are all looking for. Advice and experience is always welcomed.

Now this is what you won't find on any YouTube LED review channel, that I'm currently aware of; and there aren't many channels, yet, if any, doing any controlled tests and grow-offs; to compare the effects of different LED light spectrums on cannabinoid & terp profiles. Those trials are still in their infancy, but look to Dr. Bruce Bugby's work in that area. He seems to be the tip of the spear there:

Apogee Instruments YouTube Channel
https://youtube.com/@ApogeeInstrumentsInc?si=7hUoeFWo5aHXPsnz

Bugby can be quite controversial at times but he's as solid as they come, in my opinion; and doesn't "dabble" in "bro' science", which irks a few people who think "bro' science" is cutting edge. At the end of the day, results are what count. If CMH produces the best tasting medince for you, stick to it; even if it's less efficient and costs you more over a 5 year grow time.

The one piece of advice I'd give to the new LED grower, trying to decide what light to buy as their first LED, do NOT start with a "Cadillac" LED. Start with a mid-level to low-budget light, but if you're growing in a short tent, it must come equipped with a good light dimmer. If you're growing in a tall Gorilla Grow tent, with lots of head room, the light dimmer is not as critical.

Part of learning what your light can do involves light measurement. Every LED grower should have something to measure their light spectrum and output, if MIGRO and Dr. MJ Coco haven't already done that work for their particular light. Another excellent light review channel, for light spread/ distribution, is the: LED Gardener. Check it out sometime:

The LED Gardener Channel
https://youtube.com/@LEDGardener?si=XnN-ow7noiKVOBQC

Fwiw, the best low-budget LED, currently, for a 2' × 2' tent, is the ViparSpectra XS1500 PRO with the New-Gen lense(s). Absolute best light spread of any comparable light, for a 2'×2' footprint. Light spectrum could be better but it produces crystal laden flower. So, for the price, it's great value for the new LED "hobby" grower.

 

[CanaViper]

Totally agree on Migro and I love Dr MJCoco. I think MJCoco has been the biggest influence on my restarting my grow a year ago after 25 years. I use the self draining saucers and just trust a lot of his info!

Last time I grew we were using street lights, 1000w HPS on a rail plus several 400 and 175 MH. Just dealing with the ballasts we’re fin rude!
Now with my ViparSpectra K2500 in my 2.3x2.3 tent, when I’m cranking I’m running under 300w for everything, fans, pumps, timers everything . 3 friggin lightbulbs total, that stat alone just blows me away.

I find the LEDs so much easier because of heat, footprint and spectrum but I’m just in a lonely 2x2 but planning on expanding to our 12 plant limit. plus with Photone, lux meters and so much tech, it’s so much more manageable and measurable. I’m loving it.

But my best find so far is the genetics here, very excited

/steve

 

[Freedom_Fighter]

Totally agree on Migro and I love Dr MJCoco. I think MJCoco has been the biggest influence on my restarting my grow a year ago after 25 years. I use the self draining saucers and just trust a lot of his info!

Last time I grew we were using street lights, 1000w HPS on a rail plus several 400 and 175 MH. Just dealing with the ballasts we’re fin rude!
Now with my ViparSpectra K2500 in my 2.3x2.3 tent, when I’m cranking I’m running under 300w for everything, fans, pumps, timers everything . 3 friggin lightbulbs total, that stat alone just blows me away.

I find the LEDs so much easier because of heat, footprint and spectrum but I’m just in a lonely 2x2 but planning on expanding to our 12 plant limit. plus with Photone, lux meters and so much tech, it’s so much more manageable and measurable. I’m loving it.

But my best find so far is the genetics here, very excited

/steve

Hey Steve, nice set-up there and great looking flowers! Love the air-pots!! Are those Superoots originals? Or knock-offs?

 

[CanaViper]

I couldn’t justify the cost of superoots. I looked at them but decided to go with a 10 pack for 2/3s the cost on a pack of 3 superoots pots. I can post the link but don’t know the rules about posting equipment links. Pm me if you want.

The confusion I find is in the sizing metrics and volume, sometimes a 5 gal isn’t really a. 5 gal . The ones I choose we’re cheaper plastic than the superoots but to get more for less makes up for it. Plus once you put it together it’s solid and works great!

I have 3 - 5gal in the tent now but I just looked at the 3gal air-pots and have decided to downsize to the 3 gal in my 2x2 because the 5 gal are just a little to big for the space. No worries though I’ll use my 5gals In my upcoming adventure with a additional 2.5x5’ tent and a 3x3’

Enjoy
/steve

My full service growlab.

 

[Freedom_Fighter]

I couldn’t justify the cost of superoots. I looked at them but decided to go with a 10 pack for 2/3s the cost on a pack of 3 superoots pots. I can post the link but don’t know the rules about posting equipment links. Pm me if you want.

The confusion I find is in the sizing metrics and volume, sometimes a 5 gal isn’t really a. 5 gal . The ones I choose we’re cheaper plastic than the superoots but to get more for less makes up for it. Plus once you put it together it’s solid and works great!

I have 3 - 5gal in the tent now but I just looked at the 3gal air-pots and have decided to downsize to the 3 gal in my 2x2 because the 5 gal are just a little to big for the space. No worries though I’ll use my 5gals In my upcoming adventure with a additional 2.5x5’ tent and a 3x3’

Enjoy
/steve

My full service growlab.

Yes, the current prices of the Superoots air-pot are crazy, and it's really hard to find the larger sizes, like the 15 gal & above; especially where I live. Scarcity has driven up the price(s). I have to wonder if Superoots may go out of business; or if they're waiting for a court resolution on patent infringement violations before producing any more product.

Their pots are guaranteed to last for 10 years outdoors, in the most extreme weather conditions. I don't see any of the cheap knock-offs lasting that long.

I currently own 5 Superoots #12 (10 gal) pots, but preferred the 15 or 20 gal size. Couldn't find them anywhere. I'll wait to see what happens to the company before deciding to get knock-offs. The Rootmaker II air-pot looks like a good alternative; and great value for the money. I may try some of those, in the near future.

 

[CanaViper]

Damn that's some big pots

 

[longball]

I have used knock off pots for growing out doors, some are 5 years old and work fine. The suns UV light does slowly dry and crack them. The sizes do not seem quite right either. The big ones are supposedly 7.5 gal but the same size as the 5 gal pails(I drilled holes in them) next to them. On the far right is a 3 gal one. Seems small to me but I think fine for a tent. These are called Ultra Oxy Pots. I would say all models look and perform exactly the same. The only difference may be the quality of the plastic in terms of UV protection. It is ok to name products on this Forum, links not so much. Slowly switching to drilled pails as they work the same plus they have handles as I need to carry the plants around the yard. Handles not needed for tent.



Longball

 

[Freedom_Fighter]

I have used knock off pots for growing out doors, some are 5 years old and work fine. The suns UV light does slowly dry and crack them. The sizes do not seem quite right either. The big ones are supposedly 7.5 gal but the same size as the 5 gal pails(I drilled holes in them) next to them. On the far right is a 3 gal one. Seems small to me but I think fine for a tent. These are called Ultra Oxy Pots. I would say all models look and perform exactly the same. The only difference may be the quality of the plastic in terms of UV protection. It is ok to name products on this Forum, links not so much. Slowly switching to drilled pails as they work the same plus they have handles as I need to carry the plants around the yard. Handles not needed for tent.

View attachment 82000

Longball

Hey Longball,

Nice looking garden there! Wish I had that much outdoor space & privacy. Yes, the size does look off compared to the 5 gal pail, which is itself not a true 5 gal volume, I don't think.

Thanks for the feedback on the longevity of the Ultra Oxy. Good to know. It sounds like a good alternative to Superoots, but not as well made. Drilling holes in the bucket is a good idea, as it will help build better roots; just not as good as a true Air-Pot root-ball.

Those Air-Pot side cones are necessary to trap & guide the roots to the air holes, for optimal root pruning and new growth. And the wall angle of the bucket isn't optimal for root glancing and redirection. Would like to get a good look at the root ball on the plants grown in the modified 5 gal pail; to see if there was any root circling go on.

Superoots claims, based on large nursery field studies, that their #12 Air-Pot will grow a healthy 8 ft tree, and sustain its root system for 2 years; so I don't really need anything bigger than that. I was aiming for a bigger size to encourage less frequent watering, and shorter, wider plants, if possible.

The bigger size pot is also better suited for living soil that is never replaced; only regenerated and reused for at least as long as the pot holds up. The bigger size is also better suited for growing alternative plants in them, from time to time.

Having said all that, your modified 5 gal pail looks like it's certainly getting the job done nicely enough. Good job there!!

 

[longball]

Hey Longball,

Nice looking garden there! Wish I had that much outdoor space & privacy. Yes, the size does look off compared to the 5 gal pail, which is itself not a true 5 gal volume, I don't think.

Thanks for the feedback on the longevity of the Ultra Oxy. Good to know. It sounds like a good alternative to Superoots, but not as well made. Drilling holes in the bucket is a good idea, as it will help build better roots; just not as good as a true Air-Pot root-ball.

Those Air-Pot side cones are necessary to trap & guide the roots to the air holes, for optimal root pruning and new growth. And the wall angle of the bucket isn't optimal for root glancing and redirection. Would like to get a good look at the root ball on the plants grown in the modified 5 gal pail; to see if there was any root circling go on.

Superoots claims, based on large nursery field studies, that their #12 Air-Pot will grow a healthy 8 ft tree, and sustain its root system for 2 years; so I don't really need anything bigger than that. I was aiming for a bigger size to encourage less frequent watering, and shorter, wider plants, if possible.

The bigger size pot is also better suited for living soil that is never replaced; only regenerated and reused for at least as long as the pot holds up. The bigger size is also better suited for growing alternative plants in them, from time to time.

Having said all that, your modified 5 gal pail looks like it's certainly getting the job done nicely enough. Good job there!!

I do love growing in Air Pots and recommend them to anyone who will listen. However, I had a bad accident a year and a half ago and only have the use of one arm. A one useful arm grower. So I am switching to buckets with handles out of necessity, not choice. I can no longer grow or carry giant plants in Air Pots with one arm.

Here is a picture of the roots of a plants grown in a Air Pot.




Here is a picture of roots from a 5 gal pail. I think the roots are healthy. I took the pic a fews days later. May explain the browning. I only had 5 holes in the bottom. There will be more in this year's crop. Just a little bit of circling compared to the years I had less holes in the bucket.




I did grow some pretty big plants in 5 gal Air Pots but I can't carry them with one useful arm. So pail and smaller plants. 2023 was my first year of trying to grow small plants. It's pretty hard!



Longball