Introduction

Bob's Auto's

Active member
Hi to all 👌

My name is Bob and like the rest of my avatar's name suggests I'm in to growing Auto's. I know...I know, auto's aren't real weed, but I would like to prove you guys otherwise.
I've been growing for a couple of years now. Starting out with feminized photo's, which didn't work inside my greenhouse as where I'm at, there's quite some light pollution from a nearby factory. After that debacle I started reading up on how to grow weed in such environments and came upon auto's...And never looked back.

I've grown multiple cultivars ranging from US, UK and Dutch based seedhouses/breeders with varying success and since I'm a cheapskate, looked for a way to lighten the monetary load on my wallet by means of STS, in actual fact creating my first S1/F1 seeds. Yeah, I know...nothing to be proud of, but then I'm not playing with the genetics in order to sell these as my work, but rather to learn from the experience while not breaking the bank.
Fast forward a couple of years later and I'm still at it making my own seeds, but by now I got my hands on some regular auto genetics in the form of Coal Miner's Daughter from Gnome genetics (formerly know as Mandalorian). This opened up a whole new world and omitted the use of the STS for me.
As I progressed more and more into the world of breeding, if you might call it that, I learned how some breeders turned a photo into an auto, but to get that auto gene in the gene pool of said cultivar some serious work has to be done...
This is where I'm at now...Looking for photo genetics, which 'I' like and turn them auto so I can grow them inside the greenhouse over summer...

By now, I've been granted a "small" space inside the house to install the smallest of growing tent my money could afford, which enables me to grow weed the entire year unlike when I was growing inside the greenhouse...And still I manage to find myself without weed at the moment, but that's another can of worms...
This tent put me in the opportunity to separate my males from the females, but will also put me in the opportunity to grow some photo's and play with their genetics.

Rewind back to the mid nineties and Bob's about 16 years old. On one of my first trips to Holland (a school trip of all!!) I got to know my favorite weed of all times....White Widow, which became a staple in my younger experimentation years. About thirty years later I took another (camping)trip to Holland with my family and ended up in coffeeshop Catweazel...After asking the guy behind the counter for "good" weed I got a baggie of what do you think? Yup, White Widow...Thirty+ years might have past, but the taste, smell and high I experienced brought me back to that first encounter...
So, looking where I'm at now I started researching the history of White Widow and where I could find an original source of this wonderful cultivar. I even called back to the people at Catweazel to ask if they could help me source a cut from the White Widow, but this was only replied with a lot of laughter on the other side of the phone...hehe...So my search continued and I ended up on MNS's auction site among others...And my luck couldn't get any better, because an auction for the Black Widow was nearly ending...I stayed up the whole night as I never partook on an auction before, refreshing every five minutes or so. Long story short, I won the auction for the Black Widow and a couple of hours before that even won the auction for a pack of Dreamtime, which I found out is a kind of mystery seedmix. For the moment these seeds will go inside my seed collection and I'm anxiously awaiting the arrival of the Black Widow seeds so I can continue on my breeding journey.

To be quite honest, I've also ordered said cultivar from several other sources, which according to the fuzzy history also lay claim to these genetics, as I'm planning to do a blind test.
I don't care about all the politics that surrounds this origin story, I just want to find the best possible Widow and use it to make the best possible Auto Widow for my own enjoyment.
My missus, who doesn't use canna at all, will be numbering and anonymizing the seed samples so even I can't be influenced by the fact that I'm sponsored by Dutch Passion, might think that Ingemar is the 'One' or that @shantibaba did take the original parents with him in his exodus from GHS.

I'll be posting about this entire endeavor on AFN as this is my breeding ground, but will also be posting it here out of respect for all the hard work the old timers have done to provide me and the rest of the world with this fine example of Dutch ingenuity.




Regards,

Bob 🎩
 
Hi to all 👌

My name is Bob and like the rest of my avatar's name suggests I'm in to growing Auto's. I know...I know, auto's aren't real weed, but I would like to prove you guys otherwise.
I've been growing for a couple of years now. Starting out with feminized photo's, which didn't work inside my greenhouse as where I'm at, there's quite some light pollution from a nearby factory. After that debacle I started reading up on how to grow weed in such environments and came upon auto's...And never looked back.

I've grown multiple cultivars ranging from US, UK and Dutch based seedhouses/breeders with varying success and since I'm a cheapskate, looked for a way to lighten the monetary load on my wallet by means of STS, in actual fact creating my first S1/F1 seeds. Yeah, I know...nothing to be proud of, but then I'm not playing with the genetics in order to sell these as my work, but rather to learn from the experience while not breaking the bank.
Fast forward a couple of years later and I'm still at it making my own seeds, but by now I got my hands on some regular auto genetics in the form of Coal Miner's Daughter from Gnome genetics (formerly know as Mandalorian). This opened up a whole new world and omitted the use of the STS for me.
As I progressed more and more into the world of breeding, if you might call it that, I learned how some breeders turned a photo into an auto, but to get that auto gene in the gene pool of said cultivar some serious work has to be done...
This is where I'm at now...Looking for photo genetics, which 'I' like and turn them auto so I can grow them inside the greenhouse over summer...

By now, I've been granted a "small" space inside the house to install the smallest of growing tent my money could afford, which enables me to grow weed the entire year unlike when I was growing inside the greenhouse...And still I manage to find myself without weed at the moment, but that's another can of worms...
This tent put me in the opportunity to separate my males from the females, but will also put me in the opportunity to grow some photo's and play with their genetics.

Rewind back to the mid nineties and Bob's about 16 years old. On one of my first trips to Holland (a school trip of all!!) I got to know my favorite weed of all times....White Widow, which became a staple in my younger experimentation years. About thirty years later I took another (camping)trip to Holland with my family and ended up in coffeeshop Catweazel...After asking the guy behind the counter for "good" weed I got a baggie of what do you think? Yup, White Widow...Thirty+ years might have past, but the taste, smell and high I experienced brought me back to that first encounter...
So, looking where I'm at now I started researching the history of White Widow and where I could find an original source of this wonderful cultivar. I even called back to the people at Catweazel to ask if they could help me source a cut from the White Widow, but this was only replied with a lot of laughter on the other side of the phone...hehe...So my search continued and I ended up on MNS's auction site among others...And my luck couldn't get any better, because an auction for the Black Widow was nearly ending...I stayed up the whole night as I never partook on an auction before, refreshing every five minutes or so. Long story short, I won the auction for the Black Widow and a couple of hours before that even won the auction for a pack of Dreamtime, which I found out is a kind of mystery seedmix. For the moment these seeds will go inside my seed collection and I'm anxiously awaiting the arrival of the Black Widow seeds so I can continue on my breeding journey.

To be quite honest, I've also ordered said cultivar from several other sources, which according to the fuzzy history also lay claim to these genetics, as I'm planning to do a blind test.
I don't care about all the politics that surrounds this origin story, I just want to find the best possible Widow and use it to make the best possible Auto Widow for my own enjoyment.
My missus, who doesn't use canna at all, will be numbering and anonymizing the seed samples so even I can't be influenced by the fact that I'm sponsored by Dutch Passion, might think that Ingemar is the 'One' or that @shantibaba did take the original parents with him in his exodus from GHS.

I'll be posting about this entire endeavor on AFN as this is my breeding ground, but will also be posting it here out of respect for all the hard work the old timers have done to provide me and the rest of the world with this fine example of Dutch ingenuity.




Regards,

Bob 🎩
Nice will definitely be interested to see what you will get.
The best genetics are here so you are in the right place .
It has been a while since I've visited afn
Very busy compared to here.
 
Nice will definitely be interested to see what you will get.
You and me buddy ;)

t has been a while since I've visited afn
Very busy compared to here.
Yeah, Auto's are starting to gain popularity.
The time that you barely got stoned from an auto is far gone my friend. Loads of great breeders are taking the time to do it the right way...
This is a project I'm currently working on...here we are looking at a Bx from Mephisto's Wedding x Coal Miner's Daughter, crossed back to a Mephisto's Wedding.
The plants left front corner and left back corner are seeded with their respective pollen donor's to result in a F1 from a large and small pheno.
1699133000140 _small.jpg
 
You and me buddy ;)


Yeah, Auto's are starting to gain popularity.
The time that you barely got stoned from an auto is far gone my friend. Loads of great breeders are taking the time to do it the right way...
This is a project I'm currently working on...here we are looking at a Bx from Mephisto's Wedding x Coal Miner's Daughter, crossed back to a Mephisto's Wedding.
The plants left front corner and left back corner are seeded with their respective pollen donor's to result in a F1 from a large and small pheno.
View attachment 78136
welcome dude,

curious to learn what comes out of your blind test!
 
You and me buddy ;)


Yeah, Auto's are starting to gain popularity.
The time that you barely got stoned from an auto is far gone my friend. Loads of great breeders are taking the time to do it the right way...
This is a project I'm currently working on...here we are looking at a Bx from Mephisto's Wedding x Coal Miner's Daughter, crossed back to a Mephisto's Wedding.
The plants left front corner and left back corner are seeded with their respective pollen donor's to result in a F1 from a large and small pheno.
View attachment 78136
I agree with you they have their place in the scene.
 
i will never understand people who grow auto indoor totaly stupid
indoor you control the time of light you no need automatic
automatic is just good outdoor for people linving in to extrem north or south
i never used because if you compared the same strain with automatik trait are always lower than a 100% sativa indica hybrid
 
i will never understand people who grow auto indoor totaly stupid
indoor you control the time of light you no need automatic
I wouldn't call it stupid my friend...A lesser fellow might be offended, luckily I'm here to make you understand instead 👨‍🎓
I can give you several examples why it's just a good thing to grow auto's inside...
Running my lights 24/7, I can keep the lights at a lower setting as the DLI will remain the same. This will result in less heat generated, the voltage regulator will live longer and so will the SMD leds.
Also VPD is kept way more stable, which is what it's all about, right? Oh yes!!! I'm all about VPD you guys!! 👌

automatic is just good outdoor for people linving in to extrem north or south
Like I said during my intro, I live +50°N and would be able to grow photo's in my greenhouse, were it not for light pollution...

i never used because if you compared the same strain with automatik trait are always lower than a 100% sativa indica hybrid
That's a bit like saying, I'm not smoking weed, because people say it's bad for you...
Have you grown an auto lately? It's got nothing to do with the first auto's like lowrider anymore. Smart breeders are doing it in such a way that only the auto gene is left over. This is a lot of work, but ask the owner of this site. It takes dedication to select, reproduce and then select the same traits over and over again until it is stable. The same applies to great auto's. I know of guys who cross an auto with a specific photo plant for it's attributes, then work the offspring until it's 100% auto, just to backcross it again with that same photo as to gain even more genetic similarity with the photo parent and then turn it full auto again. This is hard work and something which get's my respect any day of the week.
In my greenhouse plants are grown in 7gallon fabric pots and become 1.5m high and full on with flowers "when" I want them, as this is also another advantage of growing autoflowers outside. In normal conditions outside weed is ready at a certain time of year. The fuzz knows this and will be doing flyovers around that time. Canna emits a certain infrared signature which can be detected with special camera's and that's how many outside grows are detected. Well, by the time the coppers start flying over, I'm already smoking the first harvest after a months cure.
This is shot July 7th...Almost ready. 😍 Oh, and I made sure I had something to harvest every month as trimming is such a drag ✂️
1688748042837 _small.jpg

And all that because of this beautiful auto gene ❤
Come on...You know you wanna give it a try now, right? 🤏



Regards,

Bob 🎩
 
i will never understand people who grow auto indoor totaly stupid
indoor you control the time of light you no need automatic
For most people, I agree %100 with your train of thought. For some though, such as elderly or those with certain limitations... could be a good thing.

My grandmother partakes, I knew that money I give her wasn't going for extra snacks 🤣. If she were growing though, her physical limitations, and the capabilities of her caretakers would likely find autos much easier. The smaller size of most autos, being able to plant a seed or two every month or so, no worries for people fucking up the light schedule. These would all benifit them.

Myself though, Photo train all the way!

@Bob's Auto's I'm super excited to see how your breeding program plays out. What are your goals for the Widow Auto you are breeding? Is it to recreate your previous Widow experiences as closely as possible?
 
For most people, I agree %100 with your train of thought. For some though, such as elderly or those with certain limitations... could be a good thing.

My grandmother partakes, I knew that money I give her wasn't going for extra snacks 🤣. If she were growing though, her physical limitations, and the capabilities of her caretakers would likely find autos much easier. The smaller size of most autos, being able to plant a seed or two every month or so, no worries for people fucking up the light schedule. These would all benifit them.

Myself though, Photo train all the way!

@Bob's Auto's I'm super excited to see how your breeding program plays out. What are your goals for the Widow Auto you are breeding? Is it to recreate your previous Widow experiences as closely as possible?
Imagine a proper ssh auto or a mh auto would do well in the northern or far southern territories.. especially when winter sneaks up like a thief on the night and decimates the longflowering sativas .
 
@Bob's Auto's I'm super excited to see how your breeding program plays out. What are your goals for the Widow Auto you are breeding? Is it to recreate your previous Widow experiences as closely as possible?
Thanks for that question my man. Well, like you must know already I'm all about auto's and what I would like to learn how to do, is create that perfect auto from the genepool of a photo. ie, Keep as much properties of the original photo plant and insert the auto gene into it. It's been done before as almost all seedhouses have some sort of auto widow these days. But I want to see what I can make on my own and learn from my own mistakes.
 
What is your plan of attack for breeding the auto trait? Are you starting with a male or female auto? Are you open pollinating or selectively breeding with 1-1 pairings? Are you going to work on a single line, heavily inbreeding then backcrossing, or were you thinking of making several parallel lines you can cross into each other?

I'm curious about your preferred autoflower archetype. Do you have a preffered size or height for your auto', ie. An auto that only gets 2 feet tall vs an auto that can become six or seven. Do you like autos that reek like oldschool ganga or something more descreet with little aroma during flower. Any preferences for the flower, ie. density, flower cluster shape, large vs small calyx, bud color. Perhaps a timeframe from seed to harvest that you preffer?

Also, have you had a chance to read any of the info on Mr. Nice about auto's? There are a few good threads of other members who work with autos. Plus, some info scattered about Nevils work with Ruderalis.


Diesel840
 
Hello Bob , welcome to the forum.
Looks like you know what you are doing when it comes to Autos . I've always been skeptical, but then I got a cheese Auto as a freebie from attitude seedbank . I was very surprised with the outcome . 😮
The Genetics have improved alot since then , now most autos claim over 20% thc and the seeds are quite expensive too.

I'm considering Growing Amnesia Skittles from fast buds . If do decide to grow some Autos I will definitely ask you for some advice .

I'm Krazykillar47 from UK 🇬🇧 !
Best of Luck !
 
First off, thank you for taking the time to think along with me. It's really appreciated 👌
What is your plan of attack for breeding the auto trait? Are you starting with a male or female auto? Are you open pollinating or selectively breeding with 1-1 pairings? Are you going to work on a single line, heavily inbreeding then backcrossing, or were you thinking of making several parallel lines you can cross into each other?
Well, I didn't want to limit myself in the genetics by starting with feminized seed. So the last couple of grows have been to breed with regular auto's. Which I was lucky to receive as a fellow member from afn just had an (accidental) open pollination inside his grow room. Loads of Meph gear being pollinated by a regular male coal miner's daughter. Lot's of hybrid vigor in those seeds, I can tell ya!!
I'm currently busy in making my first F1 after doing a Bx from Mephisto's Wedding to a Mepshisto's Wedding x Coal Miners Daughter. I've pollinated two female's with the pollen of their respective male donors. Had been keeping an eye on those plants and placed together those that looked and smelled similar.

First baby mama. At 51 days old from emerging from the soil. She's inside a 60x60x160cm tent and being blasted by a TS-1000 which is only 150W from the wall, but still overkill for this small footprint of a tent. At day 44 she got pollinated by one of the males from her generation, creating a F1 (please do correct me if I get this F1, S1 and short note wrong, I do care if things get pronounced correctly so please set me straight ;) ).
This is the 'short and stout pheno'
1699269451105 _small.jpg

And this the 'large one'.
1699269451073 _small.jpg

I'm completely satisfied in how both have turned out. Knowing that they still have three more weeks to go, for it to be considered a fast auto, lol. These girls will probably be ready in 65 days, at least some of the plants in there will be...
But these offspring will be regular. I've selected this Wedding cultivar as it was the most white auto I could find, which hasn't got anything to do with the Widow, even though I still believe that somewhere in her lineage the Widow will make an appearance or two...

Anywho, next step is to use these F1 offspring, which being a F1 would mean they will take a lot of characteristics from it's parents and use them on the selection I'm about to make with the blind test. For reference, the following widows will be used in said test inside the tent. Summed up in alphabetical order:
  • De Sjamaan - White Widow - reg
  • Dutch Passion - White Widow - reg
  • GHS - White Widow - fem
  • Linda Seeds - White Widow - fem (I found it funny to add these in between hundreds of euro's worth of seeds)
  • Mr.Nice - Black Widow - reg
I have sixteen spots inside the tent. Each containing a 3.5L pot filled with organic, living soil (ie, with worms and creepy crawlers running around). I water by hand with dechlorinated water which is in fact, unadulterated tapwater which has been standing in a bucket for 24 hours. If you have an airstone you can shorten that time to four hours, but I'm lazy...Go figure...a stoner who's lazy :unsure:
I'm planning on germinating 32 seeds in all. This will be done in the only way I know works for sure. This is the cotton pad method with added H²O² for decontamination. After three days the first selection will take place. And only the strongest sprouts will be planted in a solocup with a sterile seedlingmix, just to give 'm as much of a headstart as possible. When it's time to transfer, again the 16 best plants will be used to transplant.
From then on, it's the soil that's doing the hard lifting...I just need to keep my VPD and DLI in check, handwater my lovelies so they aren't getting to much (sidenote; I'm building an autowatering system with an esp module and capacitive sensors. Expandable to a large number of devices... )
During veg I will be doing further selections based upon vigor, shape, node distance and make note of each selectee giving it a score and matching couples / triples and so on... together. I'll also be taking cuttings from each plant, two or three to be sure. Gotta learn how to do it without drying out the clones, but that's work for later...
Then when it's time to switch the light to 12/12 and sex will be expressed, is when the final selection takes place. The males that reside with a selected female get lucky and get's to remain inside the tent. All other males will go to the chickens, which will make quick work of that fresh green treat. Now all females will still remain inside the tent. I'm not stupid...The final selection is my nose, tastebuds and capacity to hold my cool after a joint. Also that memory of old needs to flash before my eyes and that's something I can only do after harvest, drying and a good cure. So that's why the clones of each mother ánd father will remain. If there's any knowledge how to keep 'm small and tiny, without killing them, please do share (y)

I'm curious about your preferred autoflower archetype. Do you have a preffered size or height for your auto', ie. An auto that only gets 2 feet tall vs an auto that can become six or seven.
Well, I grow both inside a tiny teeny 60x60x160cm tent indoors as this is all the space I was granted by my missus. :sneaky: And have a fairly large greenhouse, which is primary used to grow peppers and tomatoes and since not to long ago tropical plants. In between them I strategically place a plant or two. These can get 1.5m tall, but I rather have a plant being only 1m tall, but being bud from bottom to top...If you get my drift. The larger pheno of the girls shown above really shows this well.
What I do care about is time from seed to harvest. Again I got lucky with the CMD hybrids I got from my friend as CMD has got a really short seed to harvest period. So plants that express sex first will receive a higher rating then slower plants.

Do you like autos that reek like oldschool ganga or something more descreet with little aroma during flower.
Well, I'm looking for that mid nineties White Widow I used to get in Roosendaal, Breda and Bergen op Zoom...After more then thirty years I grew auto White Widow from DP and it was a blast from the past, then a while later I got to sample Catweazel's White Widow, even tried to score a cut, but miserably failed, lol. That weed, was what I was looking for, but to drive 300km's to get me that delicious treats is to much to ask from an old cheapscate, with all the high fuel cost these days...
I know they received a cut from one of the old garde, being it @shantibaba or Ingemar's. So that's where my search started...

Also, have you had a chance to read any of the info on Mr. Nice about auto's? There are a few good threads of other members who work with autos. Plus, some info scattered about Nevils work with Ruderalis.
No, please do point me in this direction. I would be very much obliged to gain this knowledge 👊

Hello Bob , welcome to the forum.
Looks like you know what you are doing when it comes to Autos . I've always been skeptical, but then I got a cheese Auto as a freebie from attitude seedbank . I was very surprised with the outcome . 😮
The Genetics have improved alot since then , now most autos claim over 20% thc and the seeds are quite expensive too.

I'm considering Growing Amnesia Skittles from fast buds . If do decide to grow some Autos I will definitely ask you for some advice .

I'm Krazykillar47 from UK 🇬🇧 !
Best of Luck !
Thank you for the warm welcome 👌
Yeah, auto's aren't what they used to be. There are quite some gems to be found in all the commerce that surrounds it.
Ask and you shall receive my friend, that's what were here for (y)
 
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Well, I didn't want to limit myself in the genetics by starting with feminized seed.
My apologies, I didn't mean "fems". I meant to as if auto flower was going to be a male or female, and of the photo was going to be a male or female. It seems you plan on using a male widow as the photo donor?

Check out the Bonsai Sultan Method. @joshuahazen shares his method to breed in confined spaces. In it, he discusses potential auto breeding strategies with another member.
Also @longball just posted a pic of a crazy tall 1/2 auto. I'm not sure how much experience he has, but god DAMN does he love his autogirls. Lol.

There are various threads where people talk about autos. I can't recall which. If I remember some I'll shoot a message

Edit: also, if you are looking for a male to be the widow photo, I'd let the males flower out as fully as possible. Male Widows male great breeding specimens, but you may want to let the plant fully exspress itself as to select the frostiest males to use as a donor. I'd also auggest keeping him alive and doing a progeny test to see of he contributes the "good stuff", so to speak. I'd select the 3 best widow males, carefully breed eqch one to the same female auto (different branches and put a baggie over. Then keep these 3 branches sepperate and grow out the crosses feom each male. Pick the male that gives the best genes and go from there. Just a thought.
 
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I can't recall which thread, but I remember Nevil posting that he had combined Ruderalis with a northern lights, I think #1? He said the resulting cross was one of the frostiest, dank looking plants he'd ever seen. Only problem, you could smoke as much as you want and never feel a thing lol. Obviously not an issue anymore, but interesting none the less.
 
My apologies, I didn't mean "fems". I meant to as if auto flower was going to be a male or female, and of the photo was going to be a male or female. It seems you plan on using a male widow as the photo donor?
No, actually I have several auto males already, but the thought of a fine photo Widow male which can be kept as a bonsai is music to my ears.

Check out the Bonsai Sultan Method. @joshuahazen shares his method to breed in confined spaces. In it, he discusses potential auto breeding strategies with another member.
Oh man, this is why you are getting a response just now...Went into that rabbit hole and came out this morning at 5:30, just in time to make breakfast for the family and lay myself on the couch, lol
@joshuahazen sure gave me lots to think about. And I'll sure be applying the knowledge gained from that read. Although my intent is not to create a plethora of hybrids, but rather recreating something I love so much, but in auto format...
I knew this was going to involve keeping clones from mum and dad, but to know I can create a bonsai from the mother and father plants opens up a whole new door of possibilities. Thank you both for sharing 🤜 🤛

There are various threads where people talk about autos. I can't recall which. If I remember some I'll shoot a message
Oh, I'm new here and have loads of time, so I'll find my way around. I'm a regular poster, so as soon as this project goes a foot, you'll all get to know me very well :ROFLMAO:
And be sure to be messaging me my friend...Knowledge is power 👌


I can't recall which thread, but I remember Nevil posting that he had combined Ruderalis with a northern lights, I think #1? He said the resulting cross was one of the frostiest, dank looking plants he'd ever seen. Only problem, you could smoke as much as you want and never feel a thing lol. Obviously not an issue anymore, but interesting none the less.
I've heard these stories as well. In the beginning you could barely get more then a couple of grams from one plant and what you'd get what crap. Luckily those days are long behind us and people like me don't have to start with a pure Ruderalis, but rather get to stand on the shoulders of the people that went before us.
What I'm trying to do isn't new, neither original. But I want to do it just out of curiosity and for the slim chance I succeed and have enough seed for the rest of my life, which is already the case now, but you know what I mean ;)


Anyway, thank you all for the warm welcome!!


Regards,

Bob 🎩
 
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I've heard these stories as well. In the beginning you could barely get more then a couple of grams from one plant and what you'd get what crap.

I believe Nevil had to shut down and sell everything shortly after making that Ruderalis cross. So, unfortunately he wasn't able to pursue that route. I believe he used it with some other crosses. If I remeber correctly he used it to quicken flowering response in some crosses.

Luckily those days are long behind us and people like me don't have to start with a pure Ruderalis, but rather get to stand on the shoulders of the people that went before us.


As does anyone breeding ANYTHING. Doesn't matter if it is photo period ganga, autos, dogs, orchids, anything. We are all standing, or trying at least, on the shoulders of everyone before us. Their failures, their success, all aid us in our quest for perfect Koi, knowledge, ganga. Even Shantibaba mentions how we take up the torch from those before us and continue.
 
Oh man, this is why you are getting a response just now...Went into that rabbit hole and came out this morning at 5:30, just in time to make breakfast for the family and lay myself on the couch, lol
@joshuahazen sure gave me lots to think about. And I'll sure be applying the knowledge gained from that read. Although my intent is not to create a plethora of hybrids, but rather recreating something I love so much, but in auto format...
I knew this was going to involve keeping clones from mum and dad, but to know I can create a bonsai from the mother and father plants opens up a whole new door of possibilities. Thank you both for sharing 🤜 🤛

I'm glad you found the read helpful. I re-read the entire thread occasionally. Lots of good info.

Yeah, no need to make many hybrids, but you would easily be able to utilize much of his style to get the numbers you need to find those killer phenos to breed from as well as keep smaller backups of your mums and dads.
 
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