How to Pick a good Father for breedinng

Also curious to hear a response to these questions.

Hi everyone,

so it was stated that the earliest males are usually discarded. But what is the reason for this? Is earliness not usually a desired trait? Also what does early mean in terms of male flowers? I ve seen males shed pollen after 2 weeks in flower. Would that be an ealy one?

thanks and best wishes

DjG
 
Read up braddahs! The information is within this site. In post #2 and #25, Shanti's explanations gives a good rundown on what to look for in a male. He explains, "Males that flower too quickly or too tall are also not the best for breeding since they put too much energy into fiber production which is not the trait one is looking for in a medicinal plant."
Morphology does not give a complete picture. If you've seen earlier pics of haze males, one would wonder why anyone would use such outwardly anemic and sparse plants. One needs to look deeper, e.g. "Males that produce tight floral clusters rather than airy sparse floral clusters are usually better to breed with."
There really is a lot that goes into selecting the right male. The critically important piece as Shanti mentions is, "Male plants of this species need to be carefully selected to avoid a lot of laborious work, which means one will need to do a lot of testing of F1 seed made from a particular male to verify if the sex linked traits are real or not." As with most things, to do it the right way one needs dedication.


🤙mu
 
Thank you musashi. I actually read that posts but still it is unclear to me why an early flowering male would put too much energy into fiber production. I suppose that was related to the males flowering too tall. And also what is early in terms of male? Males flower more quickly than females ime but what is too early?
 
Alright I found the answer. In another thread someone posted this quote of Dj Short.:

'The very early declared males have a tendency to be less desirable in terms of their contributions to the quality of the finished product. (If you are trying to specifically create an early-flowering strain, then your priorities may be different.)'

And this is quoted from Shantibabas article 'Hobby Seed Breeding' on the MNS webpage:

'After introducing the male into the flowering cycle it will take approximately 2 weeks before the male flowers begin to become visible.'

So i guess that early male means everything flowering before 2 weeks in 12/12, although it also might be species specific. What are your peoples experiences?

DjG
 
Yes if cannabis was wheat. Hops is grown from cuttings, either because of variation or inbreeding depression using seed stock. Majority of cannabis breeding industry is based on elite individual plants, many being f1. Shanti grows whole hillsides of plants, with thousands of the same plant, cloned.
I wouldn't sweat big business plans. Best stuff ever came out of the down low. The moonshine still flows in the darkness.
but hops have male and female and only the females produce the hope is needed for beer brewing so its logic the use clones like we do to make sure u have fems
 
Interesting topic, have made many hobby crosses. Currently i always use all the males and select on the female side. From my own failures is why i do this now. Saves a seed run from becoming a pure failure lol. Sometimes the male selection is wrong. And you dont figure it out for a longtime lol. Is nice to know u had 4 or 5 males if your not testing them 1 by 1. More peace of mind imo. Is pure numbers and odds. 1 male is a gamble imo. Have read and will reread the knowledge dropped here by the big dogs.
 
depends on a few criteria, but in general you could gain more insight if you know what female(s) you re gonna be playing with.

if you know what your male(s) ideally should add to the progeny

sometimes its better to use more than one male and female

these are all general comments but could contribute further if you are in the know about your intentions, goals, desires

and if you dont know what to keep yet, maybe its easier to select the ones you dont want to keep

best regards
 
depends on a few criteria, but in general you could gain more insight if you know what female(s) you re gonna be playing with.

if you know what your male(s) ideally should add to the progeny

sometimes its better to use more than one male and female

these are all general comments but could contribute further if you are in the know about your intentions, goals, desires

and if you dont know what to keep yet, maybe its easier to select the ones you dont want to keep

best regards
or just all polinate one flower with each male on 1 female and do the same with all females selecting females it's easier than males but its alot work to grow them all and see wich one gets better
 
depends on a few criteria, but in general you could gain more insight if you know what female(s) you re gonna be playing with.

if you know what your male(s) ideally should add to the progeny

sometimes its better to use more than one male and female

these are all general comments but could contribute further if you are in the know about your intentions, goals, desires

and if you dont know what to keep yet, maybe its easier to select the ones you dont want to keep

best regards

1:1 matings is something I'd like to address. People suggest that I'm creating a bottleneck and it's true. A bottleneck of quality. Seeds are usually produced by using two parents. With a 1:1 mating you know which ones they were.

As a seed breeder, the job as I see it is to ensure that the customer has the highest chance of producing a keeper pheno, whilst at the same time keeping the median a high standard. Every packet should produce top shelf plants. These guys who say you have to buy numerous packets of seed to get a keeper, crack me up. The job is not to save the gene pool, but to satisfy the guy who gave you the money. Few people want to give you money to save the genepool (but I am taking donations) Haha!
If I'm making Early Skunk and the mother EP has been chosen. Which Skunk male fathers the seeds does make a difference. Single progeny tested males is your best guarantee of quality and crop uniformity.
 

as previously mentioned it depends on the goal. in the quote he refers to his goal satisfying the customers, who apparently sought quality and uniform progeny.

preservation would be a whole different story for example, eventhough in both cases you are still culling a lot likely both males and females. not everyone strives to satisfy
random growers around the world, despite its noble cause or for $.

then theres another topic he addresses, uniformity: desired by a lot of fem growers for example but striving for uniformity was part of the downfall for previously
reputable seedmakers, you know who I mean. I stand by what I said depending on what you are looking to do and its been done it can be advantageous to obtain an "overall better plant" to experiment with >1: >1 pairing.

sure its easier to test and attempt to determine who passes on what. sometimes you have more than one plant with desirable traits that has breeding potential.
 
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