Hazes and hard water?

A

Alaska

New member
Hello shanti hello all

I am wondering if you have any experience growing hazes with hard water. NH in specifically, buy I also have MH and AgxHz in seed form as well.

My water comes out of the tap at ~8pH and ~300+ ppm

The NH plants leaves don't look that healthy, some off color spotting and necrotic spotting, and I have basically only been giving ferts like ever third watering, trying to watch and see what the plants tell me they need....

My indica dom plants don't seem effected by it too much, and the SSH i just finished didin't have a deformed leaf on the plant...

Is RO water best to use with NH?

btw I do pH test pH with a drop indicator test, and adjust to ~6 with pH down. Usually the ferts will bring the pH down a bit, sometimes they bring it down enough, sometimes not, but I always pH to ~6 and pH adjust the plain water to about 6 as well.

Thanks

Alaska
 
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hiya Alaska i have had water probs the last few years my self due to a drought and to be honest its a hard one to realy sort my waters ph was a 7 ph nutreal since i started testing my pm and it went to 8.2 and above since the drought.

I tryed to use a RO water filter and the plants looket great but your takeing out the nastys but your also removeing the good minerals at the same time i found out the hard way in the harvested product was good but not close to wat it should of been and as a resolt wont use it agine.

When you use a RO filter you need to add calcium and patasium back to the water as i found out later by researching the positives and negitives of water filters like RO filters with something like cal mag tablets i think there called in short you just creat more dramas.

What i find is once you mix your hydro nutrents to the water you will find the nutrent mix in the range recomended by the nutrent instructions and the plants will be fine and love it all the way threw vegg .

Now as they go into flower some strains mostly heavy sativa lines like haze will start to show probleams so what i do is basicly stop feeding them nutrents and just feed them plain water .

See sativas realy dont like feeding once in flower normaly.

I have grown Thias and even haze hybreeds like NH / Shithaze / even MH depends on the phino to in a given hybreed line were once they started to sex realy started to suffer from the feeding and once you stop the nutrents and only feed them plain water will bounce back and realy look healthy in no time.

This only works for sativas and heavy sat hybreeds as you will find other strains like indicas or sat / indica hybreeds wont suffer and at worse will get a little leaf tip burn wich realy is only cosmetic and the flowers are not afected threw the grow at all were the heavy sats or pure sats will realy get hammerd.
 
wow 8ph and 300ppm is pretty high.Btw are you growing in soil? A r/o unit might not be a bad idea. I have seen them as cheap as $99 on ebay. Have you tried letting your watter set out for a few days and then test? I noticed that my ph and ppm would change as the clorine and other impurities evaporated.GL hope it helps:)
 
Hempy Thanks for the response and I hope you are having a good night or day or whatever time you read this :).

You are correct, after I mix my nutes, the pH is usually right on, and the ppm is acceptable too.

My NH plants look great in veg, tucked to one side out of the way, regulary fed, green and healthy. When they get into flowering however, it is a different story.

This is only my second NH grow, and the first time I treated them like any other plant I grow. A low npk organic hydro nute at full strength. The results were not wonderful, so I decided to give this run only pH adjusted water with occasional ferts as the plants ask for it.

I will try to get a pic, and lately they have been showing a wee bit of phosphorus deficiency, so I have been giving them food the last couple waterings.

Skunkydemon - Thanks for the reply, If I get an RO I am gonna get the cadillac, the new GE merlin RO system, capable of 750gpd with no storage tank, $350! I am sure you know standard ones only do 30-50 and 100 gpd. Basically an on demand RO, no waiting on a little trickle :). If anyone needs an RO and is on a well I know aquascience.net has a nice one with a booster pump included, all set up, fo $169. A friend has one that works great, fwiw

Thanks and be safe

Alaska
 
Yo AK, long time.

Don't worry about that water...untill you get into the 500+ ppm range there is nothing to worry about.
If you doubt that, dip some water out of a local lake and test it....you'll be in for a surprise.
I've never had a problem using lake water on my outdoor stuff.

RO water is for paranoid people to drink, not to water your plants with...save the bucks.
 
Hey Thorax, good to read you, and you're right, its been a while. I hope life is finding you well, and well stoned too!

Thanks for the water advice, and personal exp with haze varieties?

Thanks

A
 
I've grown every sativa I've ever known to exist over the years...and years...and...

Like Hempy says, stay away from nutes, none at all unless you see a deficiency, and don't be quick to think it's a deficiency if you do see something.
Sats don't need squat but water and time.

I only grow sats when I do outdoors....seems a waste to toss a bitty little 3 ft indi outside when they do just as well inside.
I use a 100 ft piece of auto vacuum hose and a 9v powered pump to draw water from a nearby lake...it's silent and does the job.
I 'spose there's a bit 'o fish turd in the lake...and it's not exactly what I would choose to drink, but the plants love it.

If you could test your water accurately I think you'd find it has traces of iron, copper, manganese and silica from the piping....and those are all beneficial trace nutes.
Try not using the PH adjusters if you're in soil, I've had more problems trying to pre-emptively sort things out than I ever have had just doing nothing.
I bet if you checked carefully the soil PH is a bit off from using PH down all the time, it does build up ya know...
 
Hi All

the NH , after it shows sex does not really need feeding unless it is a dose of active trace nutrients like a vitamin pill. Water and time is all they will need as well as extreme dark when it is their night...good luck...SB
 
Thanks for the reply shanti.

So, could hard water with 3-400 ppm's cause problems, since it needs no ferts?

Thanks

Alaska
 
hi alaska does this apply to sativas indoors in pots if so wot size final flowering potsize would be used to carry it through 12/12 with no nutes, strong soil mix or standard thanks
 
redeye24/7 said:
hi alaska does this apply to sativas indoors in pots if so wot size final flowering potsize would be used to carry it through 12/12 with no nutes, strong soil mix or standard thanks
Click to expand...

Hey redeye, I am still learning how to handle the sativas myself, so not the best to answer your questions.. I use a soilless mix with no ferts in it, 2g size, and water the plants a little bit every or every other day. Will see how they progress, I am gonna use plain water for the rest of this grow.....
 
You can use Fox Farms soil with a handful of Dolomite and 2 handfulls of perlite added.
Nothing else required other than (as Shanti mentioned) maybe a shot of micronutes, EJ microblast works very well for me....your hard water might just be enough AK.
 
hi all found this info thort to add it hope it helps.


Water, Water Hardness, pH and Feeds


Some notes on preparing your water. A look at hard and soft water and suitable feeds for both. Also includes detail on pH adjustment of fresh and running solutions, preparing rockwool slabs for use, and water and feeds for soil.



Water, Water Hardness, pH and Feeds

Water

For most indoor growing applications whether growing in soil or with hydroponics, tap water is the best water to feed your plants with. The excess Chlorine sometimes associated with tap water can be dissipated by standing the water in a container open to the air for a few hours before use (12 to 24 hours). Sometimes excess chlorine can make the leaves twist and contort out of shape, so we would always advise allowing your water to stand before adding to your system or watering.

Apart from the excess chlorine, tap water is excellent to use. Whether it is hard or soft water, it’s clean, bug and bacteria free and should give you no growing problems. Do not use de-ionised or distilled water and always choose tap water over rain or well water.

The pH of tap water will vary from 5.5 to 8.5. For practical purposes the lower the pH the softer the water and the higher the pH the harder the water. Added chlorine will also affect the pH, so let it dissipate before testing. Before adjusting the pH, add any necessary feed as this may also affect the pH.

Soft Water

Soft water generally has a low pH due to the low amounts of calcium bicarbonates and other ‘light’ atoms and ions in the water. You can use the pH of your tap water as a guide when choosing whether to use a Hard or Soft water hydroponic feed. If your pH is between 5.5 and 7.7 then your water is not hard enough to use hard water feeds and you should use only soft water or universal feeds.

Soft Water feeds do not generally affect the pH of the nutrient solution upon make up, so some pH adjustment may be necessary to get the nutrient solution to around pH 6. Phosphoric Acid is generally used for small pH down adjustments and Potassium Hydroxide used for small pH up adjustments. A small pipette or two may be useful as only small amounts are needed.

Universal formulation feeds like Canna Aqua and Genesis Nutrients will work well in any water, although these and other universal feeds do affect the pH of the solution upon make up. These feeds cause the pH to drop slightly, making them difficult to use in very soft water. Canna Aqua seems particularly susceptible to problems in very hard or very soft water and as a result we only recommend using it if you have mid-range water hardness.

Soft water feeds – Vita Link (SW), Canna Substra (SW), Optimum (SW), GH Flora (SW), Ionic (SW), Formulex.
Universal feeds – Europonic, Canna Aqua, Genesis Nutrients.

Hard Water

The more calcium bicarbonates and other ‘light’ atoms there are in your water, the ‘harder’ it is and generally the higher the pH. For Hydroponic Nutrient purposes, hard water feeds are only for people with very hard water with a cF 8 (500ppm total) or more and a pH of about 7.8 or above. If your tap water pH is below 7.8 then use soft water or universal feeds and adjust the pH of the final solution to around 6 using some pH down.

Hard Water feeds do affect the pH of the final solution and therefore save any pH adjustment until after the feed has been added. Because hard water has a high pH, addition of a hard water feed will automatically drop the pH of the solution and reduce the amount of pH down needed.


Hard water feeds – Canna Substra (HW), Optimum (HW), GH Flora (HW), Ionic (HW), Vita Link (HW).
Universal feeds – Europonic, Canna Aqua, Genesis Nutrients.

pH adjustment

****Do not adjust pH of water or feed solutions for soil or compost.****

When growing in hydroponics with lots of light we must be sure that the nutrients in the solution are readily available for absorption by the roots. This means keeping the pH of the nutrient solution between a range of about 5.5 to 6.5. In re-circulating hydroponic systems, make all new solutions between this range. The pH will generally rise over the next few days but avoid adjusting the pH every day even if it goes slightly out of range. Adding too much acid (pH down) is much worse for your plant than being slightly out of the optimum pH range.

If you are using a lot of acid to reduce your pH, but your water is not quite hard enough for hard water feeds, you may want to consider using Nitric Acid as a pH Down in vegetative growth. This affects the solution less than phosphoric acid although more is needed. Alternatively try changing feed next crop to a universal feed, which will help keep your solution pH down and buffered.

pH in slabs

Rockwool - For the first few days growing in rockwool cubesor slabs, the rockwool will drive the pH of the solution up until it settles down. Soaking slabs for 24 hours in a pH 5.5 solution (with appropriate strength feed added) to help stabilize the slab a bit before use.


Water and feeds for soil/compost mixes

De-chlorinated tap water is the best choice of water. Rain and well water can be used although we do not recommend it and de-ionised or distilled water should never be used. With the buffering capacity of soil and the larger and different pH nutrient availability range in soil environment, pH adjustment of any water or feed solutions is not necessary and only adds un-necessary elements to the water and feed.

Consequently there are no hard water and soft water soil feeds, just universal ones which will work well in all types of water.
Bio-Bizz nutrients – These are 100% biological, natural and a popular match with the All-Mix compost.

Canna Terra – This mineral based feed is a clear solution and ideal for automated irrigation systems unlike most other soil feeds which would block pumps and lines. Also gives excellent yield and quality in any soil or compost situation.

Whatever soil feed you choose to use, with big or heavy feeding plants under high light conditions, we recommend you use some of our popular bio additives like Bio-Bizz Alg-A-Mic, TopMax Bloom Stimulator and Bio-Bizz Root Juice, or alternatively the BCuzz Range of boosters and bloom stimulators.



And heres the water filter i found that may be a good one for you to research . http://www.filterwater.com/pc-33-8-water-garden-filter-system.aspx
 
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