Grail: The Ultimate Haze Hybrid

[b0b_b1tch1n]

id like to comment on my opinion of indoors v outdoors

since i first recieved any indoor grown weed in the early 80's i have never seen outdoor grown come close to compairing

ive recieved different outdoor weed "suposidly" grown from various locations around the world

maybe everyone has lied to me over the years and it was all grown from the wrong locations (i cant confirm)

needless to say that earthy dirt tasting weed tastes like shit compaired to a nicely grown indoor weed , and as far as potency ive only ever found the indoor stuff to be the more potent , ive had to hide from everyone before because i was tripping , and that was from indoor grown weed

only plus ive ever encountered from outdoor grown weed is yeild

these are just my experiences and like i mentioned , maybe ive been lied to about where it was grown , or maybe there are a couple places around the world that can produce the best and ive not been lucky enough to sample from them ,,, but i am talking about as far back as the early 80's maybe even late 70's so chances are i didnt miss the good spots , i do remember thai sticks from around 1978 to 1980 (little kid stealing from parents at too young an age lol) although i was young and cant properly judge anything from before the early to mid 80's when i became chronic

anyway im rambling , ill leave it at ,,,,, imo indoor is better in flavor and potency but lacks the yeild from outdoors

 

[bigherb]

Hi Bh,

You are wrong...

There is no contradicting statement here.

The early 80s date you mention relates to the last crop of Haze hybrids grown by Sam in the US.

Nevil obviously mentioned in his 1988 catalog the last crop of pure Haze grown by their original creators well before Sam made his own hybrids with it in the late 70s.

Hope that helps.

Peace.

K.

This was just a point not somthing i really wish to debate ,im glad we can express our opinions in a civil manner

No it does not relate to this that is your opinion.

Im not sure how you come this that conclusion from the description .Clearly its your opinion because Nevil doesnt state anything of those words

Again Nevil said his stock was labeled 66-70 ,Soo were in there does that give you your thought of last crop grown by the originators It was just being created .Its known the last crop of haze was grown in 80 not by SAMS which was stated by SAMS.

Funny, I still know them and they both said point blank no way.
BTW One of the Haze Bros spent all of the 80's & 90's in Mexico retired, the other Haze grower had quit growing Original Haze in 1980 because he found Skunk #1 easier to grow

The fact that the MNS genetics have always been said to come from 69 and nevil clearly explains in detail in his post to me which year the plants come from is what i was saying was contradictorary.Your statement doesnt make sense


Its not important was just a point

Hempy

I have always apprecaited facts

Its clear our feelings toward each other .But it be great to speak as gentlemen.

I did state if i recall which meant i wasnt sure and didnt recall exactly .


We both have been corrected more than once ,i admitt to my mistakes is the only difference


The point was although your strain is not throughly documented.I felt it could be a possible contribution to the grail options ,Do you not agree?


JOSH

I just reread this post.

UM I don't think you should refer to whatever original haze stock Nevil had as "OHAZE" that is a bit deceptive.

Whatever it was Nevil had is not like any other "haze" out there. That is why everybody freaked out when they tried the original 5Hz, because there was nothing like it. That is how it could spread like wildfire and become all the rage in NYC within a year or 2 of its introduction, the same way it did where I am from.


I used to hang down in santa cruz with some old cats on the scene, and they had never seen anything like my 5hz, in fact, one of them initially accused me of lacing it with angel dust. This is a guy who used to put angel dust in a canteen with water and sip it. He called it "Holy Water".

He knew of the "purple haze" that was going around santa cruz in the 60s, and used to smoke it a lot, and he just laughed when I suggested holland haze, as I was calling 5hz at the time, might be a descendant. In his words: The 2 shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence

Deceptive only because Nevil has been kind enough to share his experience saying the plants were clearly haze hybrids ,later giving insight to his thoughts on the stock he recieved

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevil
I didn't say the bag was labeled burning bush. Sam said something about burning bush being an ancestor of the Haze. If Sam is Knowsitall4sure then he didn't smoke Haze til '71.
If that's true, what would he know about seeds made by somebody else 2 years before he had even smoked the variety?
N.

Quote:
Burning Bush was an Original Haze with a strong Thai influence. I named it
SamS

I just remember him talking about it as being a superior haze, and I was left with the impression that it was an ancestor of the '69 seeds that I got from him. In hindsight, this was an incorrect assumption on my part and not necessarily Sam's fault.
The evidence is that he did not smoke and therefore breed haze until at least '71 by his own admission. I'd now guess that he crossed the '69 haze seeds to a Thai and this hybrid was probably similar in quality to stuff that I produced with the '69 seeds.
I saved cuttings from the '69 haze seeds and he probably didn't and the rest is history.
My memory is generally pretty good, but not perfect. I do what I can to report history and pedigrees as accurately as I can. I tend to forget peoples faces at times. I remember being at a party once talking to a chick who I thought I'd never met before. She kept acting stranger and stranger until she angrily pointed out that we'd had sex together a year before. I still cringe when I think about it.
N.

I refer to MNS haze stock Nevil was handed/sold as haze /OHAZE/HBH out of respect and recognition .The fact SAMS did live on the block of the creator and did bring haze to holland in what form is unknown exactly .But the stock did have OHAZE blood and Nevil's hybrids derived from it .


What i agree on is the last paragraph highlighted in bold.They should never be mentioned in the same sentence pure haze and a hybrid .At lenght we have had this discussion when ole TOM joined us



1luvbigherb

 

[Yosemite Sam]

From my point of view its hard comparing outdoor vs indoor.
The weed that comes out of both methods is completely different from eachother.
Good indoor weed is like a bodybuilder, lot's of muscle and power but not always the most enjoyable thing to have around and often a bit to much of the good stuff, over the top.
Indoor growing clearly has its limits. There is no sun, wind, natural soil, rain, interaction with other plants and a free environment.
Indoor weed is usualy much stronger then outdoors but it laks character and colour in the high it produces.
Outdoor weed is very enjoyable when it's grown in or around the tropics. That's a great climate to grow herb in.
The grows are less dependable on the grower and more on environmental issues. Not only sun/rain but everything that interacts with the plants.
Insects can be a great bugger in indoor environments and in my experience less in outdoor grows cause there is always a natural solution(predator) when it comes to these pests.
So can the two methods be compared objectively...? Hardly i guess...
Now let's talk grail again.
Regards,
YS

 

[kashrocks]

Deceptive only because Nevil has been kind enough to share his experience saying the plants were clearly haze hybrids ,later giving insight to his thoughts on the stock he recieved

Bh,

When Nevil speaks about pure Haze he in fact refers to the thai ancestor which he believes is the main contributor in the old seeds he got from Sam.

That is why he talks about Haze hybrids: ie hybrids of different sativas from which the key qualities come from the thai.

Do your mathematics bro...

Peace.

K.

This tells me that there was likely no pure haze among them (...)
(...) the inbreeding coefficient to the haze ancestor in NH is at most 37,5%.

Hi Nevil,

May I ask you what you consider the Haze ancestor to be ?
Is it the thaï or its colombian counterpart ?
From what you posted I am inclined to think that you consider it is the thaï.
I always thought the key qualities of the Haze came from the union of the thaï x colombian.
Why let half of the genetics out of the equation ?

Thanks.

Peace.

K.

No one really knows Kashrocs, but my best bet is that the haze effect comes from a Buddha Thai. It's similar to the Thai I remember from the '70s.
N.

 

[Dr. Purpur]

I run both Indo and outdoors in Cali

Your long winded hazes may not have time to finish up properly outdoors here.

Even with the columbian red back in 1973/74. We planted plenty but I never got any to finish. I think DJ Short had the same trouble.

Id bet they would have run indoors under a halide/sodium with good humidity and heat.
I imagine You could probably order volcanic soil from Hawaii if You wanted to take it that far.

The type of High I like is the instant green out type. The one that You have to be careful about not falling.
I can attain the THC level both indoor and out with the right genetics. The indoor, when done correctly every step of thye way , will consecutivly give more and far stronger of these headrushes.

I love Both Indo and Outdoors. If You are saving mothers ( I have about 38), Your doing both anyway. If Your not saving mothers, I hope You have friends who are. DP

 

[bigherb]

Kash

Not sure how or why you interpet things as you do but its very clear IMO

As I said before, I got a total of 7 plants from the original seed stock. They were all different. The Original female (the one that I didn't keep a clone of) and Haze male A, may have been siblings, but just as likely not. Yet there was a common Haze like thread among all of them. This tells me that there was likely no pure haze among them. Haze did not improve when put back to itself as I was told and later discovered. People who think that B.C. is the hope for the future ( if it can be resurrected) are likely to be disappointed. A NL5xHzA would be the best mate for it to test this out. Haze males A+C were at best half brothers, but certainly shared a common ancestor, so my guess is that the inbreeding co-efficient to the haze ancestor in Nevil's Haze is at most 37.5%.
So if we want to go back to a Haze hybrid, we are looking for one not directly related to A or C. So don't talk to me about S.S.H. or Jack Herrer or Diesel or Sage (all the same plant). Double up HzC! I'm not saying that excellent plants can't be produced from inbreeding what we have, but we are going for the Ultimate (Grail). If anybody pinches this name I'll be pissed off.
This should start the ball rolling, I'll continue later.
N.

Well Bigherb, I wouldn't swear on a kilo of Haze Hash, that he told me that he grew them himself.
I seem to remember one batch had a number of years mixed together something like '66,'67,'68. A prominent ancestor was a thing called "Burning Bush". If Sam didn't grow burning bush then the person that did will be able to tell us more.
Everything useful was from before 1970. The one plant that came up from '70 batch, Omega, was at best 25% haze and didn't make the grade.
N

I remember the Catalogue of Seeds
It was in a High Times.
You raise some interesting questions Bigherb, but not ones that I can answer. My guess is that Sam got these seeds from an old Master. One thing I am convinced of is that these seeds were part of his working gene bank and were irreplaceable. He was reluctant to sell.
I also clearly remember that the first 6 plants came from batches dated prior to 1970.
As I said before, the plants were hybrids. By all means, see if you can get to the bottom of this. I have given my testemony.
N.

Yeah, I've heard Sam whining before about how he should really get a royalty from everyone who he sold seeds to who used his genetics, 50% for pure lines and 25% for hybrids. This is after he sold you something for more than the price of gold in the first place. By his own admission, he didn't start working with Haze until the 70's. All the good ones I grew were from prior to 1970, so whose seeds were they, or is Sam a secret Haze brother. It seems that Sam feels that he deserves a lot of respect for getting seeds from one competent guy and selling them to another. Indeed, it may well be his finest achievement.

I got 7 plants out of a couple of thousand seeds and they were all different. So which ones were the pure ones exactly! Royalties indeed, I think I'll call him 'Monsanto Sam".
N.

In a short time i will hopfully make things clear with my artcle and enlighten you my friend .


Lets get back to the grail


1luvbigherb

 

[Dr. Purpur]

I made this cross outdoors

then turned around and grew in indoors. As You can see it turned out very nice. The quality of the resin was wonderful as well. I wish I still had this plant. I have the sister seeds tho.

 

[kashrocks]

In a short time i will hopfully make things clear with my artcle and enlighten you my friend .


Lets get back to the grail


1luvbigherb

Would you be hiding preponderant informations to the MNS community...that would be not nice.

Or do you plan to enlighten us only after gettin $ from your article.

You re a toy...

Peace.

K.

 

[Donald Mallard]

Ras no its not about the look of the flower as we all know good looking flowers can smoke week i was not the one saying that out doors looks better than indoors or out doors produce more reason others did and i dont agree with that statement or with the statement that you can not grow a sativa to its optimum indoors.

See i am very passionate about my hobbies and every thing i post about growing i have done it seen it not read it.

In 2003 i think it was maybe 2002 i gave my cussin clones of every plant i was growing at the time and asket him to grow each and to give me a sample of each plant labeled so i could compare the indoor grown plants to the out door grown plants to see the differences and did.

My main focus was to see if what some were claiming on line that a sativa or sativa heavy line needs a full veg cycle months and months as in nature to reach there full potential and out doors was better so i wanted to see this put it to a real test as i grew sativas outdoors for years and now grow them indoors i wanted to test this as i did not see a difference is the smoke.

My findings were as i have posted the potency affect of each plant indoors vs out was the same.

The interesting differences were these the out doors had a less resiny look the taste of the out doors to indoors was very different out doors had an earthy taste were indoors more sweeter.

The out doors flowers looked different to indoors also the indoor flowers were more compact and chunky to the out doors flowers.

No point bull shiting people facts are important but i will say to grow sativas indoors you need to do them different to if you were growing indicas .

so id be aok on your testing inside and out , if the outdoor plants had been grown in the tropics and not in a temperate zone ,,,
temperate zones and tropical zones are far from the same , so your test only proves that your indoor room grows sativa more succesfully than your outdoor temperate zone ,,


the real test would be running the plants in the tropics vs indoor ..

 

[Donald Mallard]

MNS fam can we label this relating hating or disrespecting ?

Things were peaceful till you spoke up

If you looked at my first reference below post #1498 ,i clearly state if i recall




You cant even handle a compliment

I would bigherb ,, most of us make a big attempt to say things so as not to offend ,,
cant say that was done there ,,,,
lets face it , how easy would it be to say ,,

"ohh sorry bigherb , but those dates are wrong , this is the correct date " ???

 

[bigherb]

I would bigherb ,, most of us make a big attempt to say things so as not to offend ,,
cant say that was done there ,,,,
lets face it , how easy would it be to say ,,

"ohh sorry bigherb , but those dates are wrong , this is the correct date " ???

Thankyou my friend

Your contributions are appreciated as always


1luvbigherb

 

[bigherb]

Would you be hiding preponderant informations to the MNS community...that would be not nice.

Or do you plan to enlighten us only after gettin $ from your article.

You re a toy...

Peace.

K.

Life is not nice

Im not sure which rock you sit on or came from under,Just as we face everyday obtacles in the real world we have obstacles here at MNS and its clear the nature of coversation will never be the same

You clearly know nothing about Oringinal haze Nor myself ,I believe my intentions are clear

 

[bigherb]

then turned around and grew in indoors. As You can see it turned out very nice. The quality of the resin was wonderful as well. I wish I still had this plant. I have the sister seeds tho.

Sup bro

Great pic as usual ,that is one sexy lady

Im curious to know more about this cross,I wanna say i see some NH in there am i right ?


1luvbigherb

 

[kashrocks]

Life is not nice

Im not sure which rock you sit on or came from under,Just as we face everyday obtacles in the real world we have obstacles here at MNS and its clear the nature of coversation will never be the same

You clearly know nothing about Oringinal haze Nor myself ,I believe my intentions are clear

Well I have seen, compared, smoked several grows of OH from TFD around 2005-06 from growers around me...

Without counting the OH I used to smoke at Posi, or at theHomegrown Fantasy coffie-shops.

I believe you though when you acknowledge you know nothing.

Peace.

K.

 

[Dr. Purpur]

Sup bro

Great pic as usual ,that is one sexy lady

Im curious to know more about this cross,I wanna say i see some NH in there am i right ?


1luvbigherb

That plant is from a Orange Kush/Salmon Creek/Lavender #10 cross I did in 2007 I think. I also crossed the Orange Kush/Salmon Creek with a bright blue hash plant from Humboldt. Its real good too.

I hung the Honeydew Headband cut last week. It has MNS Mango, Nev Haze, and Oaxacan/Durban seeds I will be starting pretty soon. There will be some winners in there.

 

[Donald Mallard]

Hi dr purp ,
man what a pretty plant ,
just checked it out on your gallery ,

gives me that "love to know how that tokes" kinda feeling ..

 

[bigherb]

That plant is from a Orange Kush/Salmon Creek/Lavender #10 cross I did in 2007 I think. I also crossed the Orange Kush/Salmon Creek with a bright blue hash plant from Humboldt. Its real good too.

I hung the Honeydew Headband cut last week. It has MNS Mango, Nev Haze, and Oaxacan/Durban seeds I will be starting pretty soon. There will be some winners in there.

Its lineage is intriguing ,I wouldnt exspect it too look as sativa sit does from the pic.Id love to hear a smoke report when possible.

The honeydew crosses i look forwad to seeing ,that was some looker .

Id love too see some pics of this blue hashplant aswel as hear any info.That is definetly my style ,id love too see some of your pure sativas crossed to the HP


1luvbigherb

 

[joshuahazen]

JOSH

I just reread this post.



Deceptive only because Nevil has been kind enough to share his experience saying the plants were clearly haze hybrids ,later giving insight to his thoughts on the stock he recieved




I refer to MNS haze stock Nevil was handed/sold as haze /OHAZE/HBH out of respect and recognition .The fact SAMS did live on the block of the creator and did bring haze to holland in what form is unknown exactly .But the stock did have OHAZE blood and Nevil's hybrids derived from it .


What i agree on is the last paragraph highlighted in bold.They should never be mentioned in the same sentence pure haze and a hybrid .At lenght we have had this discussion when ole TOM joined us



1luvbigherb

Something just didn't seem quite right about what you were saying and I couldn't quite put my finger on it.
But Now I understand what you are saying, and frankly your revisionist version of haze history just doesn't cut it.

We were talking about NYC Haze, which according to you, your cousin first came across in NY in 90, just a year before it showed up in NYC.

Positronics didn't even start selling haze until early 90s and Tom Hill didn't get it until 94, anyway Positronics OHAZE was way after NYC haze, and by the way, the only source ever shipping 1000s of haze seeds to NY Between 88 and 90 was the Seedbank. Now why did haze start showing up in NYC between 90 and 91?

Oh it must have been Positronics OHAZE because as all of us know Tom Wernard and Sam got together at Hortapharm and built a fucking time machine! OH YEAH.... I forgot about that.

And besides Positronics haze was not the cats meow, even Tom Hill agrees with that. Shit, he is more into his deep chunk which is also mediocre at best.

Time for you to own up and recognize, cause history is truth my friend and you can't revise that.

 

[Dr. Purpur]

Hi dr purp ,
man what a pretty plant ,
just checked it out on your gallery ,

gives me that "love to know how that tokes" kinda feeling ..

Thank You!

That plant tasted like the old time black hash we used to get in the 70s for 8 bucks a gram. There was also a slightly behind the scenes flavor of butyl rubber. But not a bad flavor, if You know what I mean. Thick smoke. It was like a bluish or thick white. I could clip the tiny bead ends off and smoke them right away in a bong, with no chloryphyl cough.

I have over 1200 pics in my albums on IC by the way

 

[Dr. Purpur]

Its lineage is intriguing ,I wouldnt exspect it too look as sativa sit does from the pic.Id love to hear a smoke report when possible.

The honeydew crosses i look forwad to seeing ,that was some looker .

Id love too see some pics of this blue hashplant aswel as hear any info.That is definetly my style ,id love too see some of your pure sativas crossed to the HP


1luvbigherb

My Son still has some seed. It was called LS1 by the Growers wife who gave it too us. They had no idea what it was, only that it had very blue buds, the color of plastic, and unlike any other plants.