Grail: The Ultimate Haze Hybrid

[joshuahazen]

Hi Hempy,
I basically agree with you, and all the plants I have grown indoors whether indica or sativa have been similar to their outdoor counterparts. But in my experience they just aren't quite as dense, or stony, in most cases it is not a profound difference however, its the yield that is the profound difference.


I do agree that it is mainly about the genetics, a haze is still a haze, whether indoor or out. I would take an indoor haze over just about anything else I've tried grown outdoors. But if I had two of the exact same cut proven both indoors and out, and one was outdoor and one indoor, both grown to full potential, it would be pretty close in terms of smoke, but I would take the outdoor.

 

[joshuahazen]

as long as we can maintain a respectful discourse here and not argue, i'd like to make a comment from my personal experiences and state that environment was equally important as genetics in the very best mj i have ever seen. the strains i refer to are the jungle reds and it made little difference whether grown in columbia or panama, they were that similar to each other.

all of these plants were grown between the equator and approximatlely 7 degrees north using similar ag methodology which amounted to slash and burn of the existing jungle followed by setting seedlings directly into the burned foilage. this burned plant matter is purportedly a fine fertilizer though environmentalists look down their noses at those employing these techniques today.

these seeds have been around for years but i have yet to see a satisfactory representation of the true panama red as it once was and the one feature i find most lacking is the inability to duplicate the resin production. these dark red buds were so gooey with resin that joints would not light. the best way to smoke this product was to break it up as fine as possible and then allow it to air for a few days. even then, joints would gum up after a few hits and go out.

imho, this sort of resin production is directly attributable to the jungle climate which is obviously difficult to replicate with an indoor garden. it can be done with enough lighting and a humid indoor environ akin to that of some orchid growers, i think? someone could have such a garden now but i have yet to see it although i have seen the work of others who are close, but have yet to match resin production. peace-biteme

Hi Biteme, thanks for the discription, I wish the Panama I used to get would have been like that. The stuff I used to get was kind of fluffy and completely covered in red hairs, and smoked just fine in a joint, not too resinated but quite a nice strong and uppity kind of high. This was in the early mid 80s.

 

[hempy]

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[joshuahazen]

A greenhouse is the best of both worlds, nothing can compete with a greenhouse.

Good point, lets not forget why we had to move indoors in the first place. It sure wasn't because indoor is preferable. It was because of prohibition. Thank God for human ingenuity.

 

[hempy]

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[hempy]

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[hempy]

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[hempy]

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[hempy]

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[Donald Mallard]

No coop your delusional and so are any of you that think indoor growers cant grow plants to there best indoors your very mistaken.

Lets stop this pissing match as i am tiering fast of it fast time to stop with the talk and time to put up or shut up .



I challenge any of you to show me a picture of an out door grown mango haze flower with the resin and look of these in these pictures.

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Thia plant grown indoors if it stood upright it would stand 14ft agine look at the resin on the flower and it had much more to mature.

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Coop you guys are agueing about something you have no understand of as i see it i can and have grown many sativas out doors here ow weather allows us to grow them but do them indoors now for other reasons.

What you lot are basically saying is its pointless growing sativas or heavy sativas indoors the results will be ok at best well no point growing hazes the grail and other lines also you guys are doing new growers trying to Lorne a massive injustice by telling people they cant do something when they can if you your selfs cant then work out how is my message to you lot.

Now go find me an out door mango haze flower that can compete with what i posted bet you cant.

No one is saying theres no point growing them indoors ,, check it out , not one person said that hempy ,,
what they are saying is that some cannabis from particular regions grows better in those regions to anywhere else ,,
thats a fact ...

 

[Donald Mallard]

as long as we can maintain a respectful discourse here and not argue, i'd like to make a comment from my personal experiences and state that environment was equally important as genetics in the very best mj i have ever seen. the strains i refer to are the jungle reds and it made little difference whether grown in columbia or panama, they were that similar to each other.

all of these plants were grown between the equator and approximatlely 7 degrees north using similar ag methodology which amounted to slash and burn of the existing jungle followed by setting seedlings directly into the burned foilage. this burned plant matter is purportedly a fine fertilizer though environmentalists look down their noses at those employing these techniques today.

these seeds have been around for years but i have yet to see a satisfactory representation of the true panama red as it once was and the one feature i find most lacking is the inability to duplicate the resin production. these dark red buds were so gooey with resin that joints would not light. the best way to smoke this product was to break it up as fine as possible and then allow it to air for a few days. even then, joints would gum up after a few hits and go out.

imho, this sort of resin production is directly attributable to the jungle climate which is obviously difficult to replicate with an indoor garden. it can be done with enough lighting and a humid indoor environ akin to that of some orchid growers, i think? someone could have such a garden now but i have yet to see it although i have seen the work of others who are close, but have yet to match resin production. peace-biteme

good post biteme ...
mid 30s everyday , hot direct sun , yep sure does pump that resin , hard to do in a grow room ..

 

[JessE]

No one is saying theres no point growing them indoors ,, check it out , not one person said that hempy ,,
what they are saying is that some cannabis from particular regions grows better in those regions to anywhere else ,,
thats a fact ...

Hi Donald,
I have to think you're a bit off the mark with this statement.

Originally Posted by coop
i've grown cannabis both indoors and outdoors. And properly grown outdoor cannabis far outshines indoor any day of the week.

Having grown haze (50% haze hybrids) both indoors and outdoors/green house I feel comfortable telling you that its amazing cannabis anywhere you grow it, as long as you grow it and attempt to do her justice.

Some of the strongest marijuana, in fact the strongest marijuana Ive ever smoked was grown indoors. But I also enjoy marijuana grown outdoors. Its a subjective thing, with no true answer being present. Rather opinion based on experiences. And as long as we're alive, future experiences can and will change perspective.

 

[JessE]

While certainly not in hempys league, below are my humble attempts at growing MNS SSH (50% Haze) outdoors/green house on the east coast of the United States. They were not truly ready at harvest, but I was more than rewarded for my efforts. A very special line imo.

MNS SSH

 

[Donald Mallard]

Hi Donald,
I have to think you're a bit off the mark with this statement.



.

why so jesse ,,
most things do better in their natural setting wouldnt you say ?

thats the point im trying to make ,,
put a plant in the tropics for 500 yrs ,
it will be pretty used to that , and prefer to grow there ..

i too have had some great indoor ,
i way prefer outdoor ,
the high is a lot nicer for me , the taste , the smell .
and by far the best cannabis ive had was grown outdoors . (tropical sativa grown outdoor in the tropics )

its just different experiences , none of which are really wrong ..

 

[bigherb]

Wrong yet agine bigherb surprise surprise its from 1978 and it has been inbreed 6 generations since 1978.

Do your research and get the facts is my tip.

MNS fam can we label this relating hating or disrespecting ?

Things were peaceful till you spoke up

If you looked at my first reference below post #1498 ,i clearly state if i recall

Might we see hempy's thai 82 if i recall as a possible candidate for the Grail .

You cant even handle a compliment

 

[kashrocks]

we managed to salavage a few viable seeds from the last crop grown in the us .That is a contradicting statement according to Nevil's post which he states the OHAZE seed stock given to him had labels from 66-70 and as we know the last crop was grown in 81

Hi Bh,

You are wrong...

There is no contradicting statement here.

The early 80s date you mention relates to the last crop of Haze hybrids grown by Sam in the US.

Nevil obviously mentioned in his 1988 catalog the last crop of pure Haze grown by their original creators well before Sam made his own hybrids with it in the late 70s.

Hope that helps.

Peace.

K.

 

[hempy]

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[joshuahazen]

Much respect to Nevil




I always give respect when its due ,Remember Nevil had nothin to do with OHAZE the creator is well and still smokin in the cruz.Nevil has told us in his experience that the 7 plants from SAMS stock were hybrids (burning bush).

Another interesting note which was clearly a sales pitch in the 90 SB catalog description of nl5haze was the line we managed to salavage a few viable seeds from the last crop grown in the us .That is a contradicting statement according to Nevil's post which he states the OHAZE seed stock given to him had labels from 66-70 and as we know the last crop was grown in 81

Hemprey bogart

thanks for sharing your experience


1luvbigherb

I just reread this post.

UM I don't think you should refer to whatever original haze stock Nevil had as "OHAZE" that is a bit deceptive.

Whatever it was Nevil had is not like any other "haze" out there. That is why everybody freaked out when they tried the original 5Hz, because there was nothing like it. That is how it could spread like wildfire and become all the rage in NYC within a year or 2 of its introduction, the same way it did where I am from.


I used to hang down in santa cruz with some old cats on the scene, and they had never seen anything like my 5hz, in fact, one of them initially accused me of lacing it with angel dust. This is a guy who used to put angel dust in a canteen with water and sip it. He called it "Holy Water".

He knew of the "purple haze" that was going around santa cruz in the 60s, and used to smoke it a lot, and he just laughed when I suggested holland haze, as I was calling 5hz at the time, might be a descendant. In his words: The 2 shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence.

 

[Ras]

would like to clarify coupla things

Are some of us perhaps referring to 'outdoor' as plants grown in pots in the sunshine? Cuz that could never be full expression of outdoor potential. Truly outdoor must refer to a plant in the ground, as no pot can recreate the full rhizosphere of the earth. Just wanted to make sure we are discussing what we think we're discussing haha

It seems to me that we are thinking of environment and genotype as discrete ingredients, separate effects, to the end product of a plant. They are not.

The plant's mechanisms will select phenotypical expressions of each gene based on the myriad environmental influences. Same genotype, different environment = different phenotype. This is a fact. The phenotype term that I am speaking of is not the oversimplified 'is it the the haze pheno, or the chunky pheno?' that we commonly talk about for the purpose of identifying similar plants. This phenotype that I am talking about is the 'micro phenotype' if I may make up an apt word to explain myself, VS the 'macro-phenotype' that we commonly simply refer to as 'pheno'.

Cannabis responds to the environment and to stress in very interesting ways, and an outdoor climate is going to present all of its own unique situations (unique influences on the zillions of micro-phenotypes), many of which an indoor grow would ACTIVELY AVOID. The indoor grower is playing at being The Alpha and The Omega, and having such a stable and optimized environment is going to select for certain phenotypical expressions... the pretty, heavy yielding ones - that is why we say 'oh wow billy bob you sure have dialled in those clones!'

Outdoors, well the plant is at the mercy of the grand interplay of the chaos of weather, the attack of insects etc, is interacting with a far different soil biology, and lets not forget the awesome power of the sun. Hard to replicate ANY of those conditions indoors IMO. Undesirable in fact, an indoor grower might (rightly) say. There's such a massive range of genes that are involved in the end smokable product, and their interactions (yes, genes are not discrete things, there are inter and INTRA-allelic reactions) chaotically vary the phenotype in accordance with the environment. Which is why outdoor buds maybe don't look as bedazzling as the indoor ones, but the outdoor ones may be more complex, because we are judging a phenotype that has been shaped by a more complex range of influences, that are not optimized for the plant’s resin and bud mass output.

And I have not the experience to judge which is the best out of the two, because I have never smoked YOUR weed. For example Hempy's MH LOOKS awesome and took massive skill to produce it, but the argument is not over looks and resin production is it!

 

[hempy]

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