Grail: The Ultimate Haze Hybrid
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Dr. Purpur
Active member
Soothing to the eyes
Got some seeds drying. 5 varieties. Including Nevilles Haze mixes and Mango mixes.
Got some seeds drying. 5 varieties. Including Nevilles Haze mixes and Mango mixes.
Piff Rhys Jones
Banned
I should probably direct this at British Hempire as he seems to have a gift for recalling vital gems of canna information prevalent on this forum... I'm sure this has been asked more than once previously in this thread but I can't seem to find the answer...
Is there any particular reason Nev is choosing to use vintage Nevil's Haze seed in order to find a potential Grail father as opposed to fresh NH seed stock?
I was under the impression both parents still exist as they did when the first batch was produced all those years ago? And any generic drifting is negated once fresh seed is produced?
Anyones input is much obliged.
Bless
Is there any particular reason Nev is choosing to use vintage Nevil's Haze seed in order to find a potential Grail father as opposed to fresh NH seed stock?
I was under the impression both parents still exist as they did when the first batch was produced all those years ago? And any generic drifting is negated once fresh seed is produced?
Anyones input is much obliged.
Bless
joshuahazen
New member
In my experience genetic drift does affect progeny, although this is not meant as an answer to your question.
Piff Rhys Jones
Banned
Your thoughts on the subject are much appreciated Joshua, as is your bonsai sultan technique.
I have no first hand experince with genetic drift so if in your experience you have seen it affect progency, then I can't see why this logic cannot be applied to Nevil's reasoning for choosing vintage seedstock.
Exciting times!
K
Kangativa
Guest
Hi......When Nev first decided to do the Grail his first thought was to use the old F1 seeds because he believes this was the strongest stock. He hadnt seen any of the new stock growing until now.
As you know that if you cross the N Haze over each other you tend to get the cat piss smell, but we now know that we can cross it to the Mullum, which Nev say's is as strong as his strongest haze, over the N Haze and this should not happen as the Mullum has a completley different smell ( report coming ).
A lot of discussion is going on as to the origins of the Haze and Mullum, but it does appear they are originally from the same source, please dont quote me on that as I said it is just a discussion. Hopefully when everything is done on the Grail a full written report will be put up, including our thoughts on where or how these lines MIGHT have started...... I am sure this will lead to a very heated topic
Piff Rhys Jones
Banned
Hi......When Nev first decided to do the Grail his first thought was to use the old F1 seeds because he believes this was the strongest stock. He hadnt seen any of the new stock growing until now.
As you know that if you cross the N Haze over each other you tend to get the cat piss smell, but we now know that we can cross it to the Mullum, which Nev say's is as strong as his strongest haze, over the N Haze and this should not happen as the Mullum has a completley different smell ( report coming ).
A lot of discussion is going on as to the origins of the Haze and Mullum, but it does appear they are originally from the same source, please dont quote me on that as I said it is just a discussion. Hopefully when everything is done on the Grail a full written report will be put up, including our thoughts on where or how these lines MIGHT have started...... I am sure this will lead to a very heated topic
Hi Kanga,
Thankyou for your response, I appreciate you are very busy with the job at hand!
I would be grateful if you were to elaborate on the reasons why older stock might be considered stronger than the progency of a more recent mating between the original NH parents. Could this be due to the genetic drift experienced when holding cuttings for long periods and the effect this may have on the resulting progency?
I'm incredibly excited to see the outcome of the NH & MM matings. I've got a strong feeling something very special is on its way.
Take care.
bushweed
New member
In light of the observations of Frank and Rosenthal in regards to the increase of potency and polyploidy of cannabis strains in tropical conditions, I expect that the genetic drift that makes potent sativas degrade over generations, would be halted by growing them in as close to the original climactic conditions as possible. So in the case of Haze and MM, that is Thailand, India, Mexico and Colombia. Colombia is equatorial, Thailand and India - between 10 & 20 degrees and Mexico - 20-30 degrees. Kangativa is situated between 20-30 degrees and this may explain why he has been able to keep a single strain potent for close to 30 years.
This notion leads one to the unfortunate conclusion that successive generations of sativa kept under artificial lighting, will inevitably lose potency ...and perhaps why Nev believes the old NH seeds to be more potent.
This notion leads one to the unfortunate conclusion that successive generations of sativa kept under artificial lighting, will inevitably lose potency ...and perhaps why Nev believes the old NH seeds to be more potent.
joshuahazen
New member
D
Donald Mallard
Guest
Hi mr kanga ,,
i know you said dont quote you ,, so im just wondering ,,
when u say from the same stock ,,
do you mean from similar lineage ??
Obviously it couldnt be the same ?
Just bred from similar strains and the result has a similar outcome??
i know you said dont quote you ,, so im just wondering ,,
when u say from the same stock ,,
do you mean from similar lineage ??
Obviously it couldnt be the same ?
Just bred from similar strains and the result has a similar outcome??
B
bigherb
Guest
Kangativa
Thanks for the updates
I look forward to all the reports smoke n grow ,The MM x NH has us all i believe on the edge of our seat
Im glad to know Nev is focused on his vision of the grail and in good company
No doubt Clearly not the same stock ,but similiar lineage
IMO the NH from what we have seen hav been more sativa expressive in growth oppose to few MM shots
IMO the catpiss is a recessive trait not Exactly a product of inbreeding ,Its reported the catpiss trait was present in the gold variety of OHAZE
1luvbigherb
Thanks for the updates
I look forward to all the reports smoke n grow ,The MM x NH has us all i believe on the edge of our seat
Im glad to know Nev is focused on his vision of the grail and in good company
No doubt Clearly not the same stock ,but similiar lineage
IMO the NH from what we have seen hav been more sativa expressive in growth oppose to few MM shots
IMO the catpiss is a recessive trait not Exactly a product of inbreeding ,Its reported the catpiss trait was present in the gold variety of OHAZE
1luvbigherb
K
Kangativa
Guest
Ok it seems as if the words stock and source are getting mixed up a bit.
The fact is we all know both have Thai in them, but the thing is and as Shanti has pointed out Thai covers a very broad range and can have a huge variation in actual plant structure and smell and also potency, but something Nev has noticed is a particular smell that is common to both. Now this is why I used the word source, because hyperthetically both strains could have originated in one village from one strain or Haze came to Australia or Haze came from Australia, sorry to you Americans but it is a possibility
Honestly guys we dont really know, as I said it is only in discussion at the moment.....but as someone said " The Plot Thickens "
Bigherb.....I honestly dont believe that all sativa's should look like Nev's haze.
Maybe NH looks more like the Thai linage than the MM.
Mate I dont know a great deal about Nev's Haze, but Nev himself has said that you have a greater possibilty of getting the catpiss smell when crossing a NH male and NH female together, I guess he knows better than anyone.
Ok back on the Grail.....At the moment what the main reciepe is for the Grail is the Nev Haze, Oaxacan and MM, with the later 2 being males and as i have always said whatever these 2 males touch turns to gold. It is also possible the NH will be a male as well....you will get more of the big picture once the reports have been written and then you can see in what direction we are heading with these strains. As I have said the NH and MM are similar, but it is the Oaxacan that is going to add the magic. From there we will look at the other strains that I mentioned earlier after they have been tested.
There really is not much more to tell at this moment as Nev is on walkabouts and I dont think pics of seedling's is that exciting.
Again I thank everyone for their comments and wishes, as Shanti always say's the world is a better place when we all get together for the love of this plant, its so much better then fighting over it.
The fact is we all know both have Thai in them, but the thing is and as Shanti has pointed out Thai covers a very broad range and can have a huge variation in actual plant structure and smell and also potency, but something Nev has noticed is a particular smell that is common to both. Now this is why I used the word source, because hyperthetically both strains could have originated in one village from one strain or Haze came to Australia or Haze came from Australia, sorry to you Americans but it is a possibility
Honestly guys we dont really know, as I said it is only in discussion at the moment.....but as someone said " The Plot Thickens "
Bigherb.....I honestly dont believe that all sativa's should look like Nev's haze.
Maybe NH looks more like the Thai linage than the MM.
Mate I dont know a great deal about Nev's Haze, but Nev himself has said that you have a greater possibilty of getting the catpiss smell when crossing a NH male and NH female together, I guess he knows better than anyone.
Ok back on the Grail.....At the moment what the main reciepe is for the Grail is the Nev Haze, Oaxacan and MM, with the later 2 being males and as i have always said whatever these 2 males touch turns to gold. It is also possible the NH will be a male as well....you will get more of the big picture once the reports have been written and then you can see in what direction we are heading with these strains. As I have said the NH and MM are similar, but it is the Oaxacan that is going to add the magic. From there we will look at the other strains that I mentioned earlier after they have been tested.
There really is not much more to tell at this moment as Nev is on walkabouts and I dont think pics of seedling's is that exciting.
Again I thank everyone for their comments and wishes, as Shanti always say's the world is a better place when we all get together for the love of this plant, its so much better then fighting over it.
Cernunnos
New member
The bottom pic is obviously the Mullum. That whopping tree is one of the most magnificient and beautiful things to my eyes to be seen upon this planet. Space visitors would appreciate that plant I reckon. Was that in Kangativas patch or yours Bushie? That Mullum isn't in the current grow is it?
Very interesting to hear how the Grails cooking. Nev said that the Mullum is as strong as NH, very interesting. There's some alchemical magic taking place.
My turn to say thank you Kangativa, thanks for the update mate and thanks Bushie for posting those pics. Don't think I've seen that pic of the Mullum before unless it's in the outdoor grow threads.
Very interesting to hear how the Grails cooking. Nev said that the Mullum is as strong as NH, very interesting. There's some alchemical magic taking place.
My turn to say thank you Kangativa, thanks for the update mate and thanks Bushie for posting those pics. Don't think I've seen that pic of the Mullum before unless it's in the outdoor grow threads.
Yosemite Sam
Active member
Great news.
Thanks for the update.
Like most people following this thread i'm very excited.
Good luck.
Thanks for the update.
Like most people following this thread i'm very excited.
Good luck.
B
bigherb
Guest
I fully agree
I have limited experience/knowledge with satiavs,My thought was and IME growing MNS hazes aswell as the many reported varieties from IC ultimate sativa thread MM seem's more of a compact plant compared to some S.E asian/African n colombian strains which have more of a loose airy open growth in flower and finished product .Soo as you say maybe looks more of the thai lineage
As you say there are many thai varities and the similarities of the haze and MM are some of my favorite traits of taste/aroma sandlewood and sweet/ hash.The last 2 being described for me by SAMS as taste/aromas of haze
Thanks again to bushweed for this great smoke report below
Im justing trying to let it be known that catpiss was present in one of the four varities of OHAZE in santa cruz,Oh course i believe Nevil knows his stock best ,But if i recall Nevil admitts to not smoking haze from the cruz in the 70's.So although its a possibility it landed in OZ aswell many things are possible just not probable
Id like to mention ,i understand Nevil spoke highly of Hempys MH soo i dont doubt he be opened to give nevil his Thai line ,i recall Nevil first saying a thai might be agreat addition to the Grail ,Might we see hempy's thai 82 if i recall as a possible candidate for the Grail .
Best wishes to you All in your findings,I HOPE nevil is checking in and see's he has much support from us all.
1luvbigherb
joshuahazen
New member
Thanks Kanga,
That makes sense. I know Thailand is a big place, but the Thaistick I used to get when I was a kid, was very consistent. and the haze reminds me of this Thaistick I used to smoke. So while Thailand may have a very diverse genepool, I think whatever giant operation in Thailand was producing the Thaistick was probably using one stock, and that stock, whether opiated or non opiated is what everyone associates with "Thai bud". I had access to both chocolate, or opiated Thai, and non opiated. the opiated was twice as expensive but worth it. They looked the same accept one appeared to have been dipped in some brown goo.
Then there is the very real possibility that a random surfer brought some crazy australian back to Santa Cruz with him that may have made it into the hands of the haze brothers. Because both areas are known for having some of the best surfing in the world, and we all know the correlation between surfers and dope.
Who knows, but one thing is certain, if Nevil says the MM Kanga has is as strong as any Haze he's ever smoked, then we must have the makings of the Grail.
Just look at the photos of phenotypes Bushweed has presented us with; It is uncanny, how similar they are. Add some oldschool Oaxacan to the mix....
We are talking about intersteller orbit here.
This is history in the making.
That makes sense. I know Thailand is a big place, but the Thaistick I used to get when I was a kid, was very consistent. and the haze reminds me of this Thaistick I used to smoke. So while Thailand may have a very diverse genepool, I think whatever giant operation in Thailand was producing the Thaistick was probably using one stock, and that stock, whether opiated or non opiated is what everyone associates with "Thai bud". I had access to both chocolate, or opiated Thai, and non opiated. the opiated was twice as expensive but worth it. They looked the same accept one appeared to have been dipped in some brown goo.
Then there is the very real possibility that a random surfer brought some crazy australian back to Santa Cruz with him that may have made it into the hands of the haze brothers. Because both areas are known for having some of the best surfing in the world, and we all know the correlation between surfers and dope.
Who knows, but one thing is certain, if Nevil says the MM Kanga has is as strong as any Haze he's ever smoked, then we must have the makings of the Grail.
Just look at the photos of phenotypes Bushweed has presented us with; It is uncanny, how similar they are. Add some oldschool Oaxacan to the mix....
We are talking about intersteller orbit here.
This is history in the making.
bushweed
New member
Both of those plants are Kanga's - the Neville's Haze is current, the MM last year. Here's a look at some MM leaf structure...
This last shot is only one branch system from one of last year's MMs - that grew into three identical xmas trees from the base and yielded 10 pounds dry. The shot previous to that was from an 18 footer. I would consider such characteristics Thai.
This last shot is only one branch system from one of last year's MMs - that grew into three identical xmas trees from the base and yielded 10 pounds dry. The shot previous to that was from an 18 footer. I would consider such characteristics Thai.
Dr. Purpur
Active member
That looks like it would be a bitch to trim.... LOL
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