Grail: The Ultimate Haze Hybrid

[coop]

about haze and smells, it is tough to decribe,

One of my master kaze has that smell its very noticeable. Its a nice looking sativa too, will have to get some pics up

Similar to SSH and durban in my mind

 

[hempy]

1969-1972 was mostly mexican sativa here

Maybe 1973 or 74 the Columbian red and Gold started coming in.

Also in the early 70s there was a lot of great pine tasting senso going around. Sativa with a strong pine flavor and an up head high. mid 70s was Thai stick. Hawaiian was here in 1976. I lived on Maui in 1977,went to smoke Maui Wowi. It was the end of 1977 when I had full on Afghani Indica for the first time. No one around here had anything like it. There was no Indica. My friend grew it, and I introduced all my Friends to it.

doc i know a lot about the Maui and the guy or group of guys that breed it grew it and do you know that the first hash plant or Afghani was in Maui between 1967 and early 70s and the main breeder of Maui wowie was the guy that took it there.

The Appalachian mountains have grown Afghani and indicas for many years even gorge Washington grew indicas as did others Afghani has been in the us well before the 70s mate.

You guys are also trying to determine a smell that is haze and you have not even seen or smoked a pure haze to be able to determine this have you but firstly haze is a hybrid and had different batches so they would of had different smells and tastes to but my guess and guess only is all any one can achieve regarding haze would be columbine and Thia combined.

Early skunk when being smoked also had a incent type smoke and its not haze is it so why is it few bring that point up.

 

[coop]

The Appalachian mountains have grown Afghani and indicas for many years even gorge Washington grew indicas as did others Afghani has been in the us well before the 70s mate.
.

George Washington grew Indian Hemp seed, meaning from India.
The east India trading co had ports in southern India and all along the east coast of the usa.

 

[hempy]

George Washington grew Indian Hemp seed, meaning from India.
The east India trading co had ports in southern India and all along the east coast of the usa.

read this.

[/IMG]

 

[hempy]

Lots forget that Pakistan was once India as was Afghanistan or parts of Afghanistan.

Durand Line Agreement between a representative of colonial British India and Afghan Amir Abdur Rahman Khan for fixing the limit of their respective spheres of influence. It is named after Henry Mortimer Durand, the Foreign Secretary of British India at the time. The single-page agreement which contains seven short articles was signed by H. M. Durand and Amir Abdur Rahman Khan, agreeing not to exercise interference beyond the frontier line between Afghanistan and what was then colonial British India (now Pakistan).[2]

Durand Line - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Dr. Purpur]

doc i know a lot about the Maui and the guy or group of guys that breed it grew it and do you know that the first hash plant or Afghani was in Maui between 1967 and early 70s and the main breeder of Maui wowie was the guy that took it there..

Capn Kenny ( Kenneth R Niezman) The deceased, but celebrated painter known as the Picasso of the Pacific, told me that He and His brother brought the seed to the Hawaiian Islands. He was an old man in 1977 when I used to hang out with him and watch him paint. He said that there was no weed in Hawaii before that. He told me that He and His brother tried it in Korea and brought the seeds back to the Islands in the 40s I think. He might have said 1947. It was long ago. He painted me a picture. Ill show you some time.The Appalachian mountains have grown Afghani and indicas for many years even gorge Washington grew indicas as did others Afghani has been in the us well before the 70s mate.
We didnt have it around here. Dennis Peron didnt have any in San Francisco in 1976 either. It was a rare commodity in my neck of the woods.
You guys are also trying to determine a smell that is haze and you have not even seen or smoked a pure haze to be able to determine this have you but firstly haze is a hybrid and had different batches so they would of had different smells and tastes to but my guess and guess only is all any one can achieve regarding haze would be columbine and Thia combined.

You know the Haze Brother story. That happened right here. Im a bit northeast where it all went down. I spent many summer vacations at a cabin on the Ocean a mile from Deerpark Amphitheatre( Where the dog story started) and I was just across the freeway and just north of where Haze brothers would have lived in the story. Ive had Haze long ago Brother.

 

[hempy]

Capn Kenny ( Kenneth R Niezman) The deceased, but celebrated painter known as the Picasso of the Pacific, told me that He and His brother brought the seed to the Hawaiian Islands. He was an old man in 1977 when I used to hang out with him and watch him paint. He said that there was no weed in Hawaii before that. He told me that He and His brother tried it in Korea and brought the seeds back to the Islands in the 40s I think. He might have said 1947. It was long ago. He painted me a picture. Ill show you some time.The Appalachian mountains have grown Afghani and indicas for many years even gorge Washington grew indicas as did others Afghani has been in the us well before the 70s mate.
We didnt have it around here. Dennis Peron didnt have any in San Francisco in 1976 either. It was a rare commodity in my neck of the woods.
You guys are also trying to determine a smell that is haze and you have not even seen or smoked a pure haze to be able to determine this have you but firstly haze is a hybrid and had different batches so they would of had different smells and tastes to but my guess and guess only is all any one can achieve regarding haze would be columbine and Thia combined.

You know the Haze Brother story. That happened right here. Im a bit northeast where it all went down. I spent many summer vacations at a cabin on the Ocean a mile from Deerpark Amphitheatre( Where the dog story started) and I was just across the freeway and just north of where Haze brothers would have lived in the story. Ive had Haze long ago Brother.

You know doc haze in its pure form before it was dutchafide as i call it looked like complete shit it looked like leafy immature sativa flowers worse than any mex brick would look and it was called tripping weed here and to date i have dated it being here as far back as 1973 from the older guys i know and could of been here before that to.


Yet this swag looking leafy material called tripping weed for 2 grams or a small coin bag full would sell for as much as a oz bag of prime seedless sativa here i saw it first in 79 and smoked it first then.

It looked nothing like what we see on todays market mate and the story of the haze brothers is at times conflicting all we can say is that they were not breeders they were growers that x there best sativas to make seed as they were commercial growers and struck gold and why each season after they struck gold there haze was different to the year before and it was different.

The pure haze looks like nothing i seen offered today but some with selection sure smokes close to it thats thanks to breeding bu people like Nev shanti and few others.


Doc the guy i know from Maui his family have been there a very long time there natives he told me that lots dont really know when the first cannabis first arrived in Hawaii some say the Chinese brang it others the Indian and other workers brought it there when they arrived to work the cane fields but if history is something to go by any were ships past to trade cannabis was grown for sails ropes so on so maybe the Brits or Spanish or even the dutch could of taken it there or Chinese again as they were explores to and traders as were others.

The guy i know knew the guy they called Mr Maui his the guy that breed the mauie wowie he brang a indica line from Cali to mauie in the late 60s and he moved there married so on.

I was gifted this line.

I was told all this and more by my friend he also told me a lot of strains came back with the vets returning from nam and even ww2 so its hard to really say who got wat from were but i know for a fact indica was taken there and used in the breeding of mauie and other lines that were there.

 

[cannabisspfecund]

Hempy Nevil refers to the same thing as thai.

"To continue:-
What ever the legend behind the seeds that I got from Sam, It is my belief that the qualities in the Original Haze that we admire so much, come from Thai. I grew up in Western Australia and started smoking in the early 70's. Most of the Australian cannabis was descended from Thai and was grown in Queensland. Perth is as close to Thailand as it is to Queensland and W.A. got more than it's fair share of Imported Thai. I remember one batch was unparalleled and Haze A male's best progeny, reminded me of it. The guy was selling ounces of it for $30, but he had bags of what I now realise was loose resin, for $60. I wish that I had bought it.
Hence my desire to scour Australia for the best descendants of the old Thai imports to put back to the Haze.
N. "

I guess when the best qualities of both perhaps come from a recent ancester it might be hard to tell when the haze came in. I dont know, i wasnt allive.

About smell, i was looking for the Nevils description on 'first haze' that i've seen before but anyway i found this and thought it was worthy bringing up.

"Northern Lights 5 crossed with Haze male C. Is the best Indica / Sativa hybrid that I've ever done. HzA male to NL5 was also excellent and was the mother of N.H. The HzC was a complex sweet aroma, while HzA produced plants with a leathery smell, more reminisent of the old Thai's.
Complex liver/ leather smell is what I'm looking for in a good Thai descenant to cross with the Haze.N.

Nevil obvuisly feels its an important building block for the best haze. Enough important people have talked about the Cannabinoid/terrapin link for it to have enough merrit.

was a little bored so i did up my own petigree from Nevils Post. this kinda shows how easy it is for someone to create thier own grail you just need good ingredients. I think the nevils haze side should stay the same, unless you have found a better breeding female Nevils haze than a male, but nevils haze on the male side sounds natural and where nevils first thoughts.

.................................................. ...........................................X
.................................................. ..........................X
.................................................. ...........................................X
.................................................. ..Haze C
.................................................. ..1969 (USA)
.................................................. ...........................................X
.................................................. ..........................X
.................................................. ...........................................X
..........................Nevil's Haze
..........................2011 (ES)
.................................................. ...........................................X
.................................................. ..........................Haze A
.................................................. .........................1969(USA)....X
.................................................. ..NL5xHzA(2).........
.................................................. ..1989 (NL)
.................................................. ...........................................X
.................................................. ..........................Northern Lights 5
.................................................. ...........................1984(NL)
.................................................. ...........................................NL5
.................................................. ..........................................(USA)
.
My Grail
.................................................. ...........................................X
.................................................. ..........................Brazilian
.................................................. ..........................19??(BR)......X
.................................................. ...Black Widow
.................................................. ...2011?(ES)
.................................................. ...........................................X
.................................................. ...........................South Indian
.................................................. ...........................19??(IN).....X
...........................Black Tiger
...........................
.................................................. ...........................................X
.................................................. ...........................Meo Thai
.................................................. ...........................20??(ES)....
.................................................. ....................................Highland Thai
.................................................. ....................................90's(TH)
.................................................. ..Golden Tiger
.................................................. ..2011(ES)
.................................................. ...........................................X
.................................................. ...........................Killer Malawi
.................................................. ...........................19??(ES)
.................................................. ...........................................KM
.................................................. .......................................(19?? ?)

i didnt mean easy, i mean its not hard to understand how it can be achieved. the time consuming part would be sellecting males. I would love the make a heap of progeny tested 'black tiger' seeds, the nevils haze would sit in the fridge in wait.

cheers

 

[coop]

read this.

[/IMG]

isnt that what i said, Indian hemp seed meaning from India?

but wouldn't that like being trying to say a Kerelian is a "indica" type hashplant?

its also well known the areas of cannabis cultivation in that area during that time

 

[hempy]

isnt that what i said, Indian hemp seed meaning from India?

but wouldn't that like being trying to say a Kerelian is a "indica" type hashplant?

its also well known the areas of cannabis cultivation in that area during that time

No Kerelian is a sativa India is a massive country that was also once including Afghanistan and Pakistan.


This is what you posted.

Originally Posted by coop View Post
George Washington grew Indian Hemp seed, meaning from India.
The east India trading co had ports in southern India and all along the east coast of the usa.

southern India is no were close to what is now Pakistan and Afghanistan its on the coast at the other end of India and your going to find sativas at that elevation.

 

[coop]

Right as the ships that where in commerce between those 2 nations, left ports Like Bombay and Malabar and then sailed to places Like Salem and Philidelphia.

The British wrote extensively about ganja cultivation thruout India, I don't think much is written about the making of hashish.

And Washington knew his crop no doubt, we can agree that Indian means the type your smoking not growing for rope. But to claim its an Afghan I would say is pretty baseless with what was going on at that time.

Also where in Virginia and Washington DC area, its to warm and humid to grow mt type hash plants.

 

[hempy]

Right as the ships that where in commerce between those 2 nations, left ports Like Bombay and Malabar and then sailed to places Like Salem and Philidelphia.

The British wrote extensively about ganja cultivation thruout India, I don't think much is written about the making of hashish.

And Washington knew his crop no doubt, we can agree that Indian means the type your smoking not growing for rope. But to claim its an Afghan I would say is pretty baseless with what was going on at that time.

Also where in Virginia and Washington DC area, its to warm and humid to grow mt type hash plants.

No we cant assume thats not factual is it Indian hemp refers to cannabis and Gorge Washington was growing indicas it says it below he and others at the time traveled collected seed from other country's traded seed with other growers so they grew not just one line of seed.

[/IMG]

 

[coop]

No we cant assume thats not factual is it Indian hemp refers to cannabis and Gorge Washington was growing indicas it says it below he and others at the time traveled collected seed from other country's traded seed with other growers so they grew not just one line of seed.

[/IMG]

Yes like i stated Washington knew his crop. He wrote a letter to the King in the 1760s? describing how the Ohio River Valley was one of the most fertile plots of land for growing hemp, and even today, that area of western Appalachia grows enough to rival Cali in numbers.


The note on Washington and Indian Hemp is some letters he wrote to I think Franklin Pierece, He kept on asking for Indian hemp seed, as he stated, "I know its better then the others"

When did the British first get to Afghanistan? mid 1800s?


http://www.jstor.org/pss/4122711

Cannabinoids are important chemotaxonomic markers unique to Cannabis. Previous studies show that a plant’s dry-weight ratio of
D9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) to cannabidiol (CBD) can be assigned to one of three chemotypes and that alleles BD and BT encode
alloenzymes that catalyze the conversion of cannabigerol to CBD and THC, respectively. In the present study, the frequencies of BD
and BT in sample populations of 157 Cannabis accessions were determined from CBD and THC banding patterns, visualized by starch
gel electrophoresis. Gas chromatography was used to quantify cannabinoid levels in 96 of the same accessions. The data were
interpreted with respect to previous analyses of genetic and morphological variation in the same germplasm collection. Two biotypes
(infraspecific taxa of unassigned rank) of C. sativa and four biotypes of C. indica were recognized. Mean THC levels and the frequency
of BT were significantly higher in C. indica than C. sativa. The proportion of high THC/CBD chemotype plants in most accessions
assigned to C. sativa was ,25% and in most accessions assigned to C. indica was .25%. Plants with relatively high levels of
tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV) and/or cannabidivarin (CBDV) were common only in C. indica. This study supports a two-species
concept of Cannabis.

Allozyme analysis revealed that the hemp accessions in the
germplasm collection under study derive from both the C. sativa
and C. indica gene pools (Hillig, 2004). Hemp landraces
from Europe, Asia Minor, and central Asia are assigned to the
hemp biotype of C. sativa and hemp landraces from southern
and eastern Asia are assigned to the hemp biotype of C. indica.
Accessions of wild or naturalized populations from eastern
Europe and the northwest Himalayas are assigned to the feral
biotypes of C. sativa and C. indica, respectively. Ruderal accessions
from central Asia are tentatively assigned to C. ruderalis,
although few morphological differences were found between
these accessions and those assigned to the feral biotype
of C. sativa (Hillig, in press). Plants of accessions cultivated
for drug production were characterized as having either narrow
lanceolate or linear-lanceolate leaflets or wide oblanceolate
leaflets. Both biotypes derive from the C. indica gene pool
and are morphologically distinct (Anderson, 1980; Hillig,
2004, in press).

 

[tinleefloufa]

howdy

with respect to title and term....one perspective perhap with consider to keep with mind....experience and perspective.

such many hundred year past various knowledge and term....such current knowledge and term change with suit to culture and experience and preference.

easy for allow word to distract.

am interest with indian vs india hemp. perhap much difference with addition 'n'.

much debate with respect to say similar phrase and opinion. hehe
much funny.

coop much respect.
hempy much respect.

what make name? one perspective and experience perhap?
with respect to one perspective and name cannabis sativa l jack herer quote to:
'Also known as: Hemp, cannabis hemp, Indian (India) hemp, true hemp, muggles, weed, pot, spinach, marijuana, reefer, grass, ganja, bhang, the kind, dagga, herb, etc., all names for exactly the same plant!'

let not distract with word please. am not agree with most current definition to various hemp, cannabis, indica, sativa, and more. much to think to with individual perspective.

keep with mind such 2011....such not 1700.

am notice coop mention india hemp....hempy you mention coop wrong and indeed perhap what now pakistan and what now afghanistan past to be india total. how to belittle coop with respect to him mention india? with you to mention such india past to include region now to know pakistan and afghanistan....coop comment accurate with you to provide such information. with respect to 1700 vs 2011. such perspective vary with respect to experience and culture.

what am mean, you both to say similar same point....yet am curious how to escalate to debate and disagree? perhap am read incorrect. pardon if such accurate am read incorrect.

such DM say....same side! much respect and much love to mns community.

positive vibration

 

[coop]

nothing wrong with a little debate if we can keep it civil.

but i do find it interesting that the modern studies state that all herb we smoke is c. indica regardless of leaf morphology.

 

[bigherb]

nothing wrong with a little debate if we can keep it civil.

but i do find it interesting that the modern studies state that all herb we smoke is c. indica regardless of leaf morphology.

I agree

I also find that post of G.washington growing indica helpful an intriguing

 

[bigherb]

Back to haze

As for determining the smell an taste it comes down to just simply sharing pour experienecs with the haze an haze hybrids we have smoked an grown .As ive said there are less than a handful that have/can share there first hand experience with smoking haze from the cruz in the 70's


There is some info available for the main source Sams who was responsible for just about ALL the available hybrids on the market today .he gave a brief description of taste/aromas .Sams an Happyhi's description had some similarites as did hooteroll in describing the Rootbeer pheno .The Fact Sams hasnt contest or went against anything happyhi said speaks volumes IMO .Especially considering the fact that he had replied to the post that was quoted from hooteroll.

The Incense is mentioned for the main Reason its recognized in several haze lines including Mns Stock which until Nevil posted Some thought to be the purest haze available .The Incense trait has been reported in indicas as for the early skunk comparison its not a good one as there is much South american genetics in the line .Thai (such as buddah sticks) an Colombian (such as Colombian Gold) also hold the trait which are thought to be of haze lineage .that kariba surprise holds the frankincense trait soo its not just a haze thing


1luvbigherb

 

[bigherb]

You know doc haze in its pure form before it was dutchafide as i call it looked like complete shit it looked like leafy immature sativa flowers worse than any mex brick would look and it was called tripping weed here and to date i have dated it being here as far back as 1973 from the older guys i know and could of been here before that to.


Yet this swag looking leafy material called tripping weed for 2 grams or a small coin bag full would sell for as much as a oz bag of prime seedless sativa here i saw it first in 79 and smoked it first then.

It looked nothing like what we see on todays market mate and the story of the haze brothers is at times conflicting all we can say is that they were not breeders they were growers that x there best sativas to make seed as they were commercial growers and struck gold and why each season after they struck gold there haze was different to the year before and it was different.

The pure haze looks like nothing i seen offered today but some with selection sure smokes close to it thats thanks to breeding bu people like Nev shanti and few others.


.

As you say tripping weed ,but please dont misinform those who might not know better that was not haze .Your facts/thoughts are all wrong .

You say Worse than Mex Brick weed that makes it clear you never smoked Ohaze

Your thought that i cant grow a haze hybrid in NYC its impossible or Seed stock of Ohaze from the 70's couldnt possibly still circulate NYC .

But you want us to believe that you had santa Cruz Haze Down under .That is impossible as it never went down there

 

[Cptn]

As you say tripping weed ,but please dont misinform those who might not know better that was not haze .Your facts/thoughts are all wrong .

You say Worse than Mex Brick weed that makes it clear you never smoked Ohaze

Your thought that i cant grow a haze hybrid in NYC its impossible or Seed stock of Ohaze from the 70's couldnt possibly still circulate NYC .

But you want us to believe that you had santa Cruz Haze Down under .That is impossible as it never went down there

You two have had this argument in threads all over this board and will never resolve your differences.
We are all sick of it.

Quit it.

 

[bigherb]

You two have had this argument in threads all over this board and will never resolve your differences.
We are all sick of it.

Quit it.

There are somethings you just have to deal with in life its just knowing how to deal with it

Come on Get off me Brah

I got no problems with you

His post 3101 to me was Okay ? An his rant threw these pages was cool you were alright with that ?

I hadnt responded to his madness for sometime ,check some of his latest post he continues to fight an be the Angry Bucket he is an has always been .


This guy put me down since day one ,it will never be resolved .but ill soon teach the old dog some new things