G13

[JessE]

Yet another G13 variety, this one a JLP variety of G.

There are dozens of folks with a mysterious G13, who's origins are questionable yet they market their varietys as G13 with little supporting evidence to back up the claim of authenticity.

Some information from JLP on the origins of his G13 varietys.

Hey guys,

Here's some seeds I just made.I used a Haze female for the seed mother.Here's a link that lays out the lineage of the Haze I used: http://www.icmag.com/forums/showthr...15&pagenumber=1
The female finished at 130 days which is about as long as I'm willing to flower one,any longer and it may never finish,at least on a 12/12 light cycle.
I used a POG G-13 Backcross male to pollenate the plant.Here's a link to the my last grow of G http://www.icmag.com/forums/showthr...15&pagenumber=1 .I used the same male here that I used to make the G-13 f2.My hope is that the G will reduce flower time and stretch while maintaining the some of the soaring Sativa high.
The Haze took a long time to flower but the high goes straight to your head.It won't win any beauty contests,the buds are kind of wispy.I'm hopeful that the G will add some solidness to the buds.The flavor of the Haze is kind of peppery/spicy.
It's a little hard to pin down a flowering time for the seeds.The G finishes around 60 days and the Haze around 120-130.What I'm looking for is a nice mix of the 2 that will finish around 90 days,but be advised if you hit a Haze pheno it will take 4 months to flower and will stretch substantially.

Anyways,as always the seeds are free.If you want some just PM me with a safe addy.Make sure you type it like it should appear on the envelope and include the postal or zip code.This is a free offer to all responsible adults.I will edit my post when I run out.

Here's a pic of the seed mother at about 75 days and the resulting seeds.They are dinky seeds,Sativas usually are, but that just means more fit in a pack.

#25
JLP
Moderator


I used the Haze for the mom and usually the offspring take after the mother more than the father but there will be variation.If you get lucky and hit a G pheno it may finish in 60 days but otherwise it will out grow a cab,the mother was 5 feet tall,took 130 days and I flowered it from seed.So that should give you some idea.



Good luck to everyone.

 

[JessE]

Some random information about the origins of the different "G13 varietys" floating around out there.

POG = Purple Kush x OG Kush

so POG G13 = Purple Kush x OG Kush x G13

so basically Miss Mud = Purple Kush x OG Kush x G13 x Soulshine x Blueberry

seems a fitting name, because when you mix a lot of different 'colors', you usually always end up with 'mud'.

which is odd, because you need a pure g13 mother/father plant to do so. of course, I don't care for the G13 rumors because who knows what to believe. It is more than likely a myth. I think some people just name stuff g13 when it comes out really well, or a certain phenotype is just wildly different than others. I don't care if it is called G13 or Shit21...as long as it is good genetics, and you like the smoke, it shouldn't matter. If there was a real pure g13, then they would be selling it. Hey all you old timers...quit hogging the pure g13 genetics!


also didn't know who JLP was, but I've found dozens of articles referring to him on OG, and I think this may be him too...

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/005542.php

scroll down to comments, and look for his name, lol.


another interesting note, all who have received seeds will be basically trying a cross and configuration of genetics no one else has before, or not many if otherwise. So enjoy!

Thanks guys.

Yeah,it's Plural of G collection G-13 Backcross F2 female crossed to a Mountain Jam F2 male.That's the only lineage I have for the G,just what was on the seedpack(I made the F2).Mountain Jam is a Soulshine(old BC cut) female crossed to a select DJ Short Bluberry male.MJ is the creation of the Cannabis Cowboy and I made F2 from it.The Cannabible 3 contains an MJ F2 bud that I grew from the same F2 seedbatch.

The number of seeds varies,I don't count them or sort them,I usually load them while I'm watching tv.The immature seeds make good packing material and it is beyond tedious to remove them.


John Lee Pedimore is a charachter from a Steve Earle song called "Copperhead Road".I went to a lyrics site for the spelling but I think I got it wrong,I think the original lyric is "Pettimore".
Yep,that's me at Jihad Watch.I post at the Hank III message board under that name too.

I am the one exception to rule #7,but Gypsy has a great free seed dispersal program.I used to give away seeds at OG before I came here.There aren't too many places on Earth that I haven't sent seeds too.
I've sent seeds to every state in America except one,and that is Utah.If you're looking to score weed don't go to Utah.Come to Cali,or go to Texas.

Also,for those wanting some of these seeds I am all out of Miss Mud seeds.There will be other seeds down the line,I plan to continue as long as I can.



Here's some pics to show phenos for those wondering what they have.I havent grown the Miss Mud yet but I just put some in the flower tray.I'm hoping to have finished product by 420 for the cup.

Here's the G mothers:

-JLP

Looks like JLPs g varietys are from the POM collection.

 

[zigzag]

Jlp

..........

 

[Hashish]

Is quite a wonderful person.He does everything out of the kindness of his heart and never asks for a thing. He brings varieties to the masses for free that some could never obtain any other way. While he doesn't select out of large populations, you can expect something worthwhile everytime you receive something from JLP. For those of you unfamiliar with JLP, take some time to look up some of his threads and imagine what it takes to do what he does and then find a way to thank him for his contribution to the plant everyone here knows and loves.

I have to agree with you on that Zigzag,JLP has been kind to myself aswell,and one of the most generous and kind hearted people i have gotten to know in a short period of time,i also recieved some of his Mississippi Mud a while ago but have,nt started those yet, and he sent me some of his "Sour D IBL x Og Kush Bx1",i,ve popped a couple and are now in there pots,like Zigzag said, if you don,t know Jlp look him up and see what he does and how big his heart really is.Take Care All...Hashish

 

[JessE]

Hey guys,
Thanks for viewing the thread and responding. JLP has been a member of the forums for quite some time. He has definitely given away alot of seed, nobodys questioning his kindness. This thread is a G13 information thread, documenting just a few of the dozens of G13 varietys floating around out there.

 

[zigzag]

..........

 

[JessE]

The best source for a G13 hybrid is Mr. Nice seeds, where Shantibaba, Neville and Howard have the original lines to work with. There is no doubting their authenticity, and if G13 is what you are searching for, this is the place to get it. Everyone else either has a copy of a Seedbank/Mr.Nice hybrid that was made available to the public, a hybrid or a mystery variety they called G13 for marketing purposes, based almost souly on hearsay, instead of fact. So you can take a gamble on other varietys, but its my opinion the best place to start is here at Mr.Nice. Ofcourse selection is always required, so maybe consider buying two or three packs to find the ideal phenotype.

Some additional G13 information I found to help add to the overall body of knowledge.

Texas Kid
Here is the fable or the truth or fantasy, who knows. I have seen the actual players in this little story refute it all and contribute it to an overactive imagination. It's a good entertaining read either way.

G13 History
The G-13 clone was discovered by a guy named Sandy Wienstien. A founding member of Sacred Seeds, Breeder of Early Girl, He also discovered the Bay Area Durban Poison clone (the same clone All dutch DP is based on). During the mid 70's Sandy W and members of the Bay Area (SK#1) group were working in cooperation on some of their afgans. A couple of the plants intro'd early into both programs brought a near fatal vunerabilty to grey mold. Both programs had to backtrack while new afgans were found to replace the culled plants, as well as beginig an extensive tourure testing program for the remaning stock. Sandy had a group of friends, growers who lived in his area (S.Ark-N Miss) One of these friends was a grower, and first year botany student who had,
by shear accident, landed a job working with Carlton Turner , who ran the US gov. pot program @ U of Miss. Sandy's friends job? using the early,rather primitive tests they had at the time to test Afganica plants for THC level! As Sandy's Early Girl program in the MW and the Skunk#1 people in Cali were on a desperate search for Afganicas. Sandy enlisted his friend to send him anything "interesting". Sandy's friend sent him 23 plants in all, and to differetiate these from his regular Afgani stock, which he labeled A1, A2 etc., Sandy designated his
"government" plants G1-23. None of these were used in any Sacred Seeds breeding program. Sandy saved only a very few of these G clones, among these was G-13. He was to busy and never had a chance to do anything with it, so it stayed on the shelf. But he saved it knowing it was a special plant, a "sport". In its pure form it was apparently not very pleasant smoke, tasting like lawn clippings, soaked in a mixture of urine and feces (fecal flavors are common in pure afganicas) with a lovelly aftertaste of burning tires. The shear power could not be
denied however and that's what made the strain's rep. As I sayed, G-13 was a breeders plant, (see MJ Botony p70) for a description of a sport but basically it's a plant that shows benificial mutations which can be passed down to the next gen. In the case of G-13 it was a scraglly plant with lowish yields, but it had the desirable trait of massive resin production. So much so, that if you let it go to long it could supposedly choke itself. Some sativas can do this, what Shanti calls the "Widow" sport is an example, but it's very rare in an indica. It was during Nevil's 83/84 collection trips to the US that he aquired, from Sandy W the only G-13 cuttings to ever leave Sandy's garden. Nevil returned to Holland and made three crosses with G-13 @ the Seed Bank. G-13x Haze (in catolog only 1 yr, discontinued, no extent P1's) G-13x Hashplant (discontinued, currently Sensi Seeds: mr nice) G-13x Skunk#1 (last and, according to Nevil, the best of the G crosses. Nev gave Shanti the last of this stock. Shanti, after suffering alarmingly low germ rates initially from the 20 year old seeds, put them though a number of breeding cycles and you all lucky bastarts are beta testing the results.) Sandy Wienstein passed away in 1987. If you have the '88 edition of Mel's Indoor Guide, then you have Mel's wonderfull euligy to his friend.(Mel was part of the upstate NY group, which was a sattelitte of Sandy's midwest group. Mel and Co. were not breeders but the ran beta grows for Sandy's Early Girl proj. Just look pic's captioned Durban poison x Afgani in upstate NY from any
of mel's books.) For those who don't have this vintage edition, just turn your copy of Mel's Deluxe MJ grow guide to the back cover. The guy in the red pendelton shirt and the long hair and shades, Thats Sandy. You owe him more than you know P.S. No more than a few weeks after Sandy's death in 1987, all of Nevil's G-13 cuttings went down, including safety clones he had kept in remote places. The plants just wilted and died, despite the best efforts made to save them. No cause was ever found As for the f2s well they cant be f2s mate becouse if you or eny one researchet things ( just stateing facts nothing personal clips as your a good guy and you know i respect you) people whould know that the last ever x of the G13 clone Nevile had ( the only g13 clone in the industry at that ) the g13/sk seeds shanti was given were f1s as they came from Nevile who used the sk male over the G13 clone before it was lost ( Sed to be the best X useing the G13 of all neviles g13 hybreeds as it exprest itself best in this x sed by nevile )so that makes what ever people are makeing and passing around far from f2s and with out knowing what to select for there takeing the line further from what it should be so maybe why there getting more sativa phinos in there generations wich are not f2s mate .
I am only talking for my self here i would never speek for shanti and as i do research things and its all there for people to work out also for them selfs if they wont to mate but im thinking few did becouse if people did they would know shanti selected us the testers to give an honest report be it good or bad on the test strains and as a collective type group help each other and shanti with these strains like they do with flowers like rose clubs or even people working together to save old wold fruiet and veggys who are scated around the world yet work together as a collective group. jesse turner still shared cuts with others[canadian,univerity of washington,ohio and cple others] but there is only one g13 and nevil owns it .now the chance to be assosiated with others on the net very slim and doubtfull with the info nom has posted clears alot up .before ya speak read and investigate i put plenty of information up in breeding forum on the closed post to support what ive said. Nom de fleur my sentiments are the same as muggles as 20 plus years here growing and im a 3rd generational my family has been in growing since before the 40's .i cant wait to enjoy and try shanti's and nevils good works till then enjoy and ill chat ya later clips more info to be considered canada's conection to miss research Did you have a relationship with Dr. Carlton Turner?s research group at the University of Mississippi?
Indeed we had cordial relationships with Dr. Turner and the Mississippi group for many years, exchanging information and keeping each other abreast of developments. As you know, after his work on Cannabis Dr. Turner went on to occupy the prestigious position of Domestic Policy Advisor to the president of the US. We used a Mexican strain supplied by Dr. Turner to grow a large supply of standardized medicinal marihuana in Ottawa for Canadian use. Climatic conditions in Mississippi and Canada are of course different - a longer, hotter, drier situation in Mississippi, and this resulted in the plants in Mississippi tending to be taller, with much more leaf fall, leaving the remaining younger leaves with higher THC content on the plants. Nevertheless, morphological and chemical characteristics tended to be comparable between the two Who directed that the Agriculture Canada Ottawa Cannabis farm be started and what was your initial mandate?
As noted above, cultivation of Cannabis was initiated by two Canadian federal ministries, Health Canada and AAFC, for the purpose of clarifying a number of botanical issues, and to grow a standard supply of medicinal marihuana. A 3 acre plot was established in 1971 in the main agricultural research area in Ottawa, known as the Central Experimental Farm, where both high-THC and low-THC forms were cultivated. This was in a rather open location, and elaborate security measures proved necessary. After 1971, it was decided to conduct cultivation in Ottawa only in more secure indoor areas, and this lasted until 1979. Outside of Ottawa, hemp has occasionally been grown outdoors at various AAFC stations across Canada in recent years, but currently cultivation is entirely on the private property of cooperating entrepreneurs. I am cooperating in research on hemp, both in the field and greenhouse, but the research sites are not in Ottawa. Our current mandate is to assist the private sector in conducting commercially oriented research on low-THC Cannabis, i.e. industrial hemp.
How did you obtain seeds for the Ottawa Cannabis farm? Curiously, it was easier to obtain seeds of Cannabis for research purposes in the early 1970s than it is today, and by 1971 I had accumulated in excess of 400 different stocks of seeds. The United States Department of Agriculture supplied dozens of samples, but today informs inquirers that it has none. Similarly it is also increasingly difficult today to obtain hemp seeds from some other seed banks. In my early research I concentrated on means of distinguishing drug and non-drug strains, and numerous police forces around the world cooperated in supplying seeds from confiscations. Today the emphasis is on non-drug strains, and it is necessary to have a reasonable indication that imported seeds are non-drug. And of course, with the recent realization that hemp is an extremely promising crop for which seed collections are critical for future breeding, many private seed collections are available only on a cooperative developmental basis. I was not aware of the Canada connect to Turners proj. BTW according to the way I heard the story, the G plants were not the result of a U of Miss breeding program but point of origin P1 afgans bing tested for later use. Sandy's buddy's job was to make the most crude tets for THC level, he fownd this particular wierdo that tested off the chart. e passed it on to his friend and the rest is history. I don't claim anything I state here as absolute fact, in fact part of the reason I posted this here was to try and spark exactly this kind of conversation, one I think is long overdue. I very much hope that you all can/will check me on the facts and if anybody has any additional info on any matter related to these old lines, please feel free to add, even if only to debunk some myth that "I" might without knowing it, be carrying forward . As far as this tale is concerned, there are three people still alive and in the public domain so to speak, who can confirm or deny any or all parts of this post Those being: Mel Frank, Who was Sandy's close friend. Nevil who also met him personaly. and of course our own Shantibaba, in whom Nevil has entrusted to steward the last remains of this plant into the future. Shanti also has dir. access to both Nev and Mel F I was no more than a fring dweller on the edges of this seen back then. Barely a grower and certainly no breeder. Just a snotnosed skate grommet who was enlisted by a friend's older brother to assist with harvest and trim. a year or so later , when my friends and I started to drop some seeds in the ground it was this guy who mentored us. We would later find out that said older bro was himself being mentored by an even older grower who had close enough connections to the Sacred Seeds bunch to be "on the list". That is to say, this guy was one of probobly less than 1000 people total who ever was sent the Sacred Seeds catolog of seeds(a pic of the '81 list is in 25 yrs of HT p.85)It was from these two that I first heard these story's and over the years , articales published in the varios pot rags of the day, especially those my either Mel or Connissuer R tended to confirm the story and also kill the odd myth or campfire story. I was close enough not just to ctch a contact high, but to sample things that most people only get to read about. Only now, in hindsight do I realize just how lucky I was to simply be born in the right place at the right time and know the right people. My only porpose here is to both share and gain information for the bettrment of the whole community. So if nothing else, I'm glad I got some folks talking.

 

[Niemand]

The best source for a G13 hybrid is Mr. Nice seeds, where Shantibaba, Neville and Howard have the original lines to work with. There is no doubting their authenticity, and if G13 is what you are searching for, this is the place to get it. Everyone else either has a copy of a Seedbank/Mr.Nice hybrid that was made available to the public, a hybrid or a mystery variety they called G13 for marketing purposes, based almost souly on hearsay, instead of fact. So you can take a gamble on other varietys, but its my opinion the best place to start is here at Mr.Nice. Ofcourse selection is always required, so maybe consider buying two or three packs to find the ideal phenotype.

I agree 100% with your Mr. Nice assessment..... Thats why I got a pack or 3 of both the G13widow and the G13Skunk.....

I WILL say that I believe the G13xHaze I smoked in A'dam was reefermans even though I bought it at Barneys because Reef and Derry used to have a loose partnership....

I have smoked Gypsys G13BX and it WAS potent but tracking down factual info about it is hard.... And its actual G13 lineage (IE G13 cutting, G13NL, G13Haze, G13Sk, G13HP) is unknown

Ofcourse selection is always required, so maybe consider buying two or three packs to find the ideal phenotype.

I HOPE 3 packs will give me a keeper.....I know some people find a keeper in 3 seeds but "I'm" a little more selective

As an interesting aside I know the people discussing the G13Bx and the person who claimed to have grown the original G......This person as far as I know has never talked bullshit! He is a med patient who KNOWS what he is talking about.... A knowledgable person as well who knows some old timers who know some shiznit!

And..... I think it IS safe to assume that Shanti saying the original G13 cut was dead, he WAS speaking of the cut that made its way across the ocean.... Its REASONABLE to know in A'dam that the clone is gone but How could he know that EVERY cut in the US was gone......

UNLESS....... we go back to the school of thought that Nevilles G13 was the ONLY G13 because HE christened it that.......

I KNOW this is a subject that has been talked to death BUT maybe when Shanti returns he can at least chime in about whether he was speaking of the cut that made it across or if he was talking about the entire line.......Because from what "I" read into it.... he seems ONLY to be talking about Sensi's cut......

.I recently learnt that the G13 lost alot of vigour at Sensi a long time back untill they eventually lost the original mother line

Did Neville REALLY guard that G13 so that there was ONLY the cutting(s) he gave Sensi? No friends received a cut?

I REALLY have to thank you again..... Getting all this info in one place is very convient....... Peace

 

[JessE]

I dont put much weight into claims like that, but by all means search for what it is that you desire.

 

[Niemand]

More G13 Stuff from 2005

Here is some more stuff I found.....without comment or editing

[quote name='Ferengi420' date='Jun 22 2005, 05:19 PM' post='81668']
The only US government produced cannabis we've heard of, is from NIDA. The National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA; a government agency) contracts with the University of Mississippi at Oxford, Mississippi for the production of cannabis used in the few approved research studies and for distribution to the eight surviving medical cannabis patients grandfathered into the Compassionate Use Program (established in 1975 and cancelled in February 1992). More recently, San Mateo County received permission from NIDA--and subsequently 300 pre-rolled joints--from the Mississippi operation for a medical cannabis study conducted with 60 AIDS patients.

The Mississippi cannabis is notoriously low in THC (reports range from 2-3% to 5% for an exceptionally good crop). If higher-grade plants have been grown there, it has not been published in the literature.

According to a report prepared in November 1996 by Dr. Mahmoud El Sohly, the scientist directing the University of Mississippi growing operation, it costs $200/kilogram to produce marijuana suitable for use in human clinical research and approximately $920/kilogram to process it.

For more information about the struggle to conduct research into the therapeutic use of cannabis, see the MAPS Medical Marijuana Research Page. "

**************************************************

"- The G-13 is alleged to have been stolen from the U.S government during test trials for cannabis research. The truth is that the government did do tests and still do test with the University of Mississippi.

The Potency Monitoring Project (PMP) at the University of Mississippi has come up with some great data over the years. It must also be pointed out that in 1973 PharmChem independently conducted a PMP which found the average potency to be 1.62% of tested strains. Many samples were over 4%, and the highest single reading was 9.5%. The highest sample measured by PharmChem in 1975 contained 14% THC (Zimmer and Morgan, 137).

The University of Mississippi refuse to talk about this because they are under government contract to do so. The G-13 is an alleged female smuggled out of either the UOM or PharmChem in clone form.

Since the allegation has been made that it is government grown marijuana, one can only assume that it was from the UOM. To add to this, PharmChem still have the highest PMP measurement to date. So the G-13 can not be the holy grail we are looking for. Whatever PharmChem is sitting on it worth a look at."

*********************************************

The G-13 has been around and is still doing the rounds. There are a number of variations and I can think of one grower here who has grown 4 or 5 version of the top of my head. Since we are talking about a clone that has been duplicated quite a number of times we might have to consider that the possible variations in the G-13 that we have seen may have been induced by Cloning Mutations.

This thread is not about "Who has the true G-13". The only way we can seriously consider such a claim is if the person can tell first hand how they smuggled the clone out of the government test labs, or how they concocted the story.

So apart from this we can look at how the G-13 phenomena came about. Nevil's old bank offered G-13 seeds back in the mid 80's. This doesn`t match up with the story that the G-13 is in clone format only which predates the 80's seed-bank. Knowing this, one can be certain of one thing. The G-13 name (and story) has been exploited for profit. A number of things must be taken in account when looking at the G-13 story.

- The original G-13 may no longer exist, or may not be in the hands of anyone who would be willing to share it.
- The original G-13 may just have been a hybrid created by Joe Soap and someone created the story about this amazing plant to boost sales.
- The original G-13 is real and is a clone that was smuggled out from some government test lab.

It is quite possible that the G-13's that have done the rounds are decoys, or hybrids of the G-13 and the original has never left the hands of the 'owner'. However we do have 4-5 variations of the G-13 so ONE of them may be the real thing. Even if it is real, it doesn`t mean that it came from a government test lab. All of this is still Speculation, however we have proof that the government G-13 strain exists......... or we have proof that a plant going by the name of G-13 exists because people have it and grow it. Either way, there is no tag on the plant that says - "Look at me I am part of government research project", however if G-13 is GM, then maybe in the future with enough experts and equipment we can prove that the G-13 was the first GM cannabis plant and that would certainly help back the story that the plant was indeed part of a government project. That is...... if the G-13 is GM.

- Is the G-13 a clone that was snatched from a bundle of plants in a test lab?
- Is the G-13 a clone that was choosen by the theif because it was the focus of the researcher's attention?
- Was the G-13 grown in a lab at all? or was it grown by a member of the public who was paid to do this for research purposes by the government?

Again these things are speculation and can only be answered if the connection is ever made between the G-13 and a government test lab.

If we look back at the time of origin, 1970's, and the story behind the G-13 we can note down a few things to concentrate on.

- It was developed in the 70's.
- It was developed in the U.S
- It was developed because of a government programe.

This narrows our search down to two major possible sources which fit this profile.

- University of Mississippi
- PharmChem

UoM will not say if someone stole anything, period. They do however still conduct tests and breed marijuana strains.

PharmChem, <http://www.pharmchem.com/.> PharmChem are actively seeking new and innovative ways to test for drug abuse. PharmChem does not appear to breed marijuana but does actively import and test strains and samples. It is not clear if they grow.

The potency of marijuana is currently measured by both bodies using a system called "The Potency Monitoring Project."
http://www.deal.org/knowzoneinfo/in...=67&article=830 <http://www.deal.org/knowzoneinfo/in...=67&article=830>

(You can do your own research and find out more about it on the net. It is a long term project, spanning through to this day.)

How much of this PMP project is factual is also up for debate because of other 'legal' influences. Some monitoring projects have even claimed that 52% THC has been found.

The G-13 arrived on the scene in the 1970's. UOM have continued their research since then. One can only guess that they have improved on the G-13, which may make the G-13 but a short lived tale of a 'once' fantastic strain that is now only secondary to some of the strains that are out there today. Some growers here will also have trouble attaching the word fantastic to this strain. Some growers haven`t been pleased with this strains results. However, we need to look at this in terms in potency and personal taste.

Strawdog.

Feel free to add or subtract from this. This is only my own findings. If anyone can help extract information from the above two bodies please be my guest. I would be interested in hearing if any of the above two bodies have reported break-in's to the local law enforcement during the 70s, or if they have prosecuted anyone for theft of part of a cannabis breeding project. If they don't know it was stolen then they will not be able to give an answer. However they do not answer queries about the G-13. They either don't know or don't want to comment.
[/quote]

 

[Niemand]

I dont put much weight into claims like that, but by all means search for what it is that you desire.

No.... Im not putting weight into anything..... Im merely stating a fact about a persons character

 

[Niemand]

As for nom de flur, some of the information he is quoted as saying was a revelation to me however I do not know if it amounted to tall tales are if what he has stated is fact. Ive never heard Shanti or Nev discredit nom de fluers words............but it does add to the overall body of knowledge of G13, even if he is the only cat Ive heard mention the things hes said. If Shanti could comment on NDF's story sometime that would be great, would be nice to see what he thinks about what NDF has to say about Sandy.

Well...... HERE is a little clue about the veracity of Noms story..... Its a story about Skunk BUT.... Some things do match.... in BOLD Sam the Skunkmans comments

Sam_Skunkman vbmenu_register("postmenu_335540", true);
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 7



WTF????
This guy ###, or ###,
have posted this stupid piece of fiction on every Cannabis web site on the net over the last year or two. I have told them it is not true, but they do not care about truth because that would get in the way of them being the center of attention.
FYI, Skunk #1 was not a communal breeding effort, it was my work and my work alone. CBF is a lier and I suggest you do not believe anything he posts.

"Notice the two shots on the bottomare taken against the backround of Sandy W's barn. I'm almost 100% sure the plant on the lower right is A.Gold and about 90% that it's the primary A.Gold mom in Sk#1"

Well nice opinion but I never met Sandy W and he never worked on Sk#1.

"the late great Maple Leaf Wilson provided most of the genes they scowered every nook and cranny for an Afgani."

I never met MLW and never did any work with any thing from him.

"I already spoke about Sandy W's involment and there were apparently
others though the only one I am reasonably sure of was an East Bay
biker/Vietnam Vet who went by the handle "Mendacino Joe""

More made up crap, I know no one named MJ.

"The Skunkman brought several kilos of these seeds with him along with his other stuff when he moved to holland in '82 in the wake of his release from prison.As far as I know he has only given these seeds to Nevil, Shanti, and Wernhard from Positronics."

Also not true, I was never in prison, this is just made up crap. And I did not even meet Shanti until the 90's.

"Skunk#1 first went on sale in '78 or '79. As far as I know it was the only strain that Sacred Seeds didn't give a discount on orders over 1k seeds. Seeds were 2$ a peice and people bitched about prices even back then"

Wrong, SK#1 was available earlier, and they sold for $.50 each. This post would be funny if it was not so full of lies.

"modern Sk#1 the CC/TFD Skunkman bred "the Pure" is bred for more
consistant plants and towards the SkMans ideal Sk#1. While the stinky
side of the house would be best represented by the SeedBank/Mr Nice
skunks which also have more variation in types like the earlier California
skunks."

What a bunch of crap, just a made up story. SK#1 sweet or skunky were all made by me.

"In '82 I came home one night and turned on the TV. Just as they went
to commercial the news bimbo teased the story, "comin right up after
this" police official say they got the source of the skunk. Yeah right I thought, we'd heard these claims before, always to be followed by shot of some deputies pullingthree scragly plants from some poor sucker's patch. This time it was different, this time they were standing in front of a warehouse. Sacred Seeds was busted in '82. The Skunkman was arrested and the cops were in possetion of the groups main seedmaking op."

Not true at all, I never grew in a warehouse ever, and did not get busted either, this is just made up lies.

"But this bunch was savey and had pre-paid bailbonds/lawyers on retainer and so SkMan was out in a matter of hours. And so began one of the greatest capers in Sacred Seeds history. An event I will call "the great rootball rescue". Skunkman, out on bail and eager to find out the condition of his grow rooms stakes out the grow to make sure the cops aren't waiting there for him. After sitting for hours he finally gets over his paranoia and makes a cursery recon and can't believe what he finds, the cops in either there arrogance or ignorance have left the place secured with only police tape. checking the grow as well as the dumpster out back the found many plants cut well above the the first node and some that had been simply pulled from their containers and tossed whole. the dumpster was also full of seeds and it was obvious that the cops had broken many seed containers but because there were so many eventually just started throwing jars out whole. the cops had left all the stuff there until morning when they could properlycatolog it, including all the grow equip. Skunkman sprang into
action, called a number of the un-busted members of the club and the "great rootball rescue" was under way. His friends showed up and they
litteraly stripped the place of every thing usefull. Lights were sold to pay legal fees, the rootballs, including the Haze mom SkMan has to this day were nursed back to health by the people who escaped prosicution and the police were left with a distinct lack of evidence. Causing some of the cases to collapse entirly and some, like SkMan to serve greatly reduced sentances. If they'de gotten him on everything they wanted him for he'd still be there. Instead, He served less than a year and on his release he collected up his strains from his friends, including Sk#18.2 rescued from the dumpster and made his way to amsterdam were he founded Cultivators Choice seed co, named after the top award at the annual Sacred Seeds
harvest fests held in Nor Cal from 67-83"

Sounds almost real but it never happened, I did not even keep clones back in California, I also never used lights, so keeping clones would of been pretty hard. ###/### just made up shit. SK#18.2 never even exsisted in California. No Haze mom was saved as a clone from California. Just made up shit.

### please stop posting these lies, I have asked you nicely many times but it does not seem to work so,
STOP POSTING MADE-UP STORIES ABOUT ME AND MY WORK,
you stupid jerk!!! Get a life.

-SamS
Last edited by Sam_Skunkman : 02-10-2006 at 06:25 AM.

This SAME sandy w had something to do with the G13 in Nom's story

Quote from Nom

The G-13 clone was discovered by a guy named Sandy Wienstien. A
founding member of Sacred Seeds, Breeder of Early Girl, He also
discovered the Bay Area Durban Poison clone (the same clone All dutch
DP is based on). During the mid
70's Sandy W and members of the Bay Area (SK#1) group were working in
cooperation on some of their afgans.

Quote from Sam the Skunkman

Well nice opinion but I never met Sandy W and he never worked on Sk#1.

 

[Niemand]

Last one for now

Hey...... Jesse.......

(please forgive me)

Here is a little more on the G13 and searching out the truth......

quote:
Originally posted by ihaveworms
i know this has been said before but:

how can anyone prove that Neville had the only G13 cut????? IMPOSSIBLE

who is to say, if Neville got a cut, that someone in US did get one aswell??? basically this is a neverending story... the facts are limited... maybe at that... but to say he is the only one who ever had a cut of it.. IMO is to far fletched for me...

worms



Hey worms
If you go back to page 1, and read all the way through this thread your question above would seem foolish. Neville obtained a cutting of G13, FACT! Was he the only one to get the cut? I highly doubt it.
Now this entire thread was started to trace the varietys out there that WE CAN trace to Nevilles G13 clone.
As Kashgari said, PROVE that the G13 was actually marketed or even mentioned before Neville got ahold of it! Nevilles Seed Catalogue is the first official document mentioning the G13 at all.
Nevilles hybrids, the NL, Haze, Hashplant, Skunk are what has generated the "myth" today. So are there those who could have the SAME g13 clone Neville had? Its possible!
Can you prove it? Not without a G13 that is LEGITIMATELY related to Nevilles stock with a DNA test.

So there are those who claim to have the same G13 that Neville got ahold of. Are these varietys good? I would say, yes they are probably pretty powerful if they were given the G13 monicur. But are they the REAL DEAL? THE POINT OF THIS THREAD! The entire point of ths thread, is to send folks to the sources who have G13 that IS LEGITIMATELY provable to be G13. You simply cant prove you have the same G13 neville obtained without a DNA test to prove it.
So basically, Nevilles G13 hybrids are the only ones with legitimate validity in this thread. Unless you can prove the SO Cal G13, or the Airbourne G13 are related to Nevilles hyrbids, I will have a hard time accepting them as FACT! I personally feel, theres a good chance the SO cal and Airbourne are one in the same, but I would not DEFINETIVELY tell you in my opinion they are the real deal. Is it possible? Yes, very possible. But ultimately, not provable without a DNA Test.

So basically, I personally dont care where you got your G13, or G13 "hybrid". To get my money, for your "G13" you will have to prove to me that your stock, is legitimate and worth my time. Im not interested in an AK47 hybrid, that is VERY POWERFUL that has been mislabeled G13 to sell more money.
I am interested in "the real G13 hybirds", not speculation on weather or not your G13 is related. Its all about PROOF!
Sensi Seeds, can prove their stock is legitimate traceable to the original G13.
Mr. Nice seeds, can prove legitimately their G13 is definetively traceable to the Neville G13, because Shantibaba got the F1 hybrid seeds DIRECTLY from Neville himself, and he is now WORKING WITH NEVILLE once again.

So for those of you, interesting collecting "all of the G13s", you have yourself a ball! There are dozens of varietys, whos validity can not be proven but are still labeled G13. You could fill two rooms, with enough different "G13" plants to keep you busy until you retire. For those of us, who wish to skip the retirement area, we are interested in what can and can not be proven to be the real deal.

There are obvious differences in the Pacific G13 hybrids floating around. Some are Indica dominant, some are Sativa dominant and yet are said to be the same thing. HOW?
Pacific told me herself, she had "two G13" varietys! How can this be? One was a purple G, and the other was the PG13.
The Airbourne G13, looks very similar to the seed bank catalogue picture of the G13xNL. The So cal G13 looks like the Airbourne. But if we are talking ABSOLUTE facts here, without a DNA test would not know for sure if they are related, or not.

Someone brought up the Lg13, that G13 is obviously different than many other "G13" varietys. The pacific G shows to much variation from picture to picture, and the facts have been stated. She had TWO G13s. There can only be one!

Obviously, we are even discussing the feminized G13 varietys out there who claim to be "pure" G13s.
1. They would have to have a cutting of the same G13 Neville got.
2. They would have to avoid all hermaprodite problems, consistant with plants who have been "feminized" or back crossed to themselves.

All of which, is close to impossible if not entirely impossible because then I would ask you...........where did you get a pure G13 cutting? Can you prove its the same G13 Neville had? And if you back crossed it to itself, why would as I as the consumer be willing to try your feminized G13 varietys when it is well known hermaprodites are a notorious problem with feminized plants and plants back crossed to themselves.

Ultimately, my feels are that the G13xHashplant aka Mr. Nice from Sensi Seeds is a legitimate relative. Someone, who would know...............and whos opinion counts for alot said that Sensi Lost the original mother plant, and they went about using the remaining hybrids in the wrong fashion, to preserve the variety.
And the Mr. Nice G13xSkunk, said bye Neville to be the best G13 hybrid ever made will be available in March or April at the latest(hopefully).
If you can get an Airbourne G13, or a SO cal G13 I would not dispute the fact they COULD BE the legitimate G13 hybrids from the 80s. But I would tell you, DEFINITIVELY they are one in the same without a DNA test.

If someone else got a cutting of the G13 Neville obtained, and kept it alive since the 80s.........WONDERFUL. Now go get a dna test to prove it, open a seedbank and CLEAN UP. If you can not prove it, you will join one of the many banks in the world who have something they believe to be G13, or G13 related but can not be proven.

There are numerous Northern Lights varietys, who are not related to the original NL. There are numerous White Widows, who are not related to the real White Widow. Thus, there are many G13 varietys said to be related, but can not be proven. All speculation. So in summary, as a consumer I would recommend you avoid speculation.........and go for what we all agree are the facts. Obviously there is dispute between some facts, but there others that seem to be widely agreed upon. The Sensi Seed G13 and the Mr. Nice G13. Everything else, is pure speculation only.

JessE

NOW..... Some Minor questions this raises......

A quote from RT

If you go back to page 1, and read all the way through this thread your question above would seem foolish. Neville obtained a cutting of G13, FACT! Was he the only one to get the cut? I highly doubt it.

This goes RIGHT back to my original question..... WHO is to say that the people who gave Neville HIS cutting didn't give cutting to others.... Since it has not been suggested that they only gave it to Neville to make money with, it would seem logical that they WOULD gift others..... NOW.... How can we CREDIBLY say that ALL of the other gifts as well as the original mother are also dead.......

I mean - he even admits

So are there those who could have the SAME g13 clone Neville had? Its possible!

Now...... I got one more for you if you are up to it!

Reefermans G13xHaze....... Sold by Barneys in Adam.... I had "heard" that this WAS Neville's G13xHaze....... ANY 411 on that strain? Cut and Paste AND your personal opinion......... THANKS

BTW...... any info on THIS thread? I have NO Mr. Nice forum info from 2002 and was wondering if you had

quote:
Originally posted by Shantibaba
well in my opinion and like alot of those plants that originated in the 60s and 70s the influential countries of origin were around Afghanistan, Kashmir, Nepal and Pakistan..at least when we talk about Indica traits, which is basically G13.
The thread that can give you alot of actual photos that represent the G13skunk can be found on Mr Nice Seedbank under the 8th of July 2002 with the name G13,Master Kush and Mango test grow ...

 

[JessE]

And..... I think it IS safe to assume that Shanti saying the original G13 cut was dead, he WAS speaking of the cut that made its way across the ocean.... Its REASONABLE to know in A'dam that the clone is gone but How could he know that EVERY cut in the US was gone......

UNLESS....... we go back to the school of thought that Nevilles G13 was the ONLY G13 because HE christened it that.......

I KNOW this is a subject that has been talked to death BUT maybe when Shanti returns he can at least chime in about whether he was speaking of the cut that made it across or if he was talking about the entire line.......Because from what "I" read into it.... he seems ONLY to be talking about Sensi's cut......

-Niemond

For which I answered

I dont put much weight into claims like that, but by all means search for what it is that you desire.

Your reply, seems to suggest you have misunderstood what the discussion is about, and where its going.

No.... Im not putting weight into anything..... Im merely stating a fact about a persons character

We arent on the same page Niemond. I am not attacking anyones character, and said that I dont put much weight into claims of a surviving G13 cut in the states, for already stated reasons. Neville marketed the G13 hybrids when he was with the seedbank, thats how it became world famous with the name it has for itself. As for the reeferman G13xHaze, thats a question better left for Reeferman to answer. However, I wouldnt put much weight into his word myself.

If you would like to take a chance on a variety that relys on hearsay, as evidence to its lineage do so at your own risk. As Ive stated, I dont consider folks claims of having a G13 clone thats survived this long legitimate, and without any conclusive proof I wouldnt want to waste my time on them. Others ofcourse, are free to make their own decisions. Are these supposid "G13" varietys good? Quite possibly so, they would have to be for a "G13" name to be attached to them, otherwise it wouldnt be believable. But is it a sure thing? A guaranteed thing? No, is the simple answer. If Neville and company, literally legends in the community couldnt keep a clone alive, in Holland of all places I doubt the ability of the G13 line to have continued in the US by avg growers, with much harsher legal restrictions. The argument you are posting, is an old tired argument that its stated in the Seedbank catalogues that it was one clone, of many that was given to Neville for him to market. So there is a chance there are G13 clones floating around still. Well, are you going to spend your life time chasing the numerous clones, that are said to be G13? And how are you going to know for sure what you have is G13? And not some random Afghani that was strong, so the grower called it G13? How are you going to know? Thats where the problem lies with the numerous clones floating around out there, that are said to be G13 but offer nothing other then hear say to authenticate their origins.

There is only one G13, and considering Neville is the first to market the variety and his surviving stock is still alive and well we know for sure that the varietys at Mr. Nice are indeed related to the true G13. Its authenticity is not in question, and thats the difference between a variety with legitimacy and a variety that relys on word of mouth only to authenticate its origins. You will never truely know, unless you do some type of DNA test on the varietys to prove conclusively. The well known varietys that are floating around out there now, could very well be related to the hybrids Neville released around the mid 80's. They could be complete frauds. They could be the real deal. The problem is, nothing is concrete about their origins. There is no proof in the pudding. And when you are dealing with seeds that are $90 a pack, which is alot of money to the avg person.....you are going to want to invest your money on a sure thing, not a rocky, iffy sure thing.

So in conclusion, lets say you want to grow the Airbourne G13 Niemond. By all means, dont let me stop you. I would encourage it actually. Im pretty sure its got to be pretty good, to have made its rounds like it has. Maybe even test grow your G13widows and skunks along side with it? Would be a great compare and contrast thread.

And lets not forget, as discussed earlier in the thread Sensi Seeds has the G13xHashplant variety to choose from. Which origins are not in question considering Nevilles work there at Sensi.
And you have Soma's G13xHaze male, which he found out of 3 seeds given to him by Ed Rosenthal apparently.
Just like with any variety, do your research before you make any kind of concrete decision about what it is you want.

 

[Niemand]

-Niemond

For which I answered





Your reply, seems to suggest you have misunderstood what the discussion is about, and where its going.



We arent on the same page Niemond.

JessE......

Okay..... I was on the wrong page.......Im on the right page now ......

Excellent reply...... THANKS!

 

[JessE]

Here are some more pictures of the MNS G13xSkunk by redeye.

Anyone interested should follow this link to redeye24/7's thread for more information.
http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/showthread.php?t=175

 

[Wizard of Oz]

I think ya will find,that,even Sensi's G-13/Hashplant is a bit unbeleivable!!!
With what Mother plant did they do a supposed breeding program? I truly do not think that there was,a breeding program! Only Mr Nice Seeds has the real G-13 genes in it's strains.

 

[JessE]

Hi Wizard,
I believe Neville was with Sensi Seeds for a time, the G13xHashplant they have is related to the original G13. Sensi lost the G mother sometime ago now, and they are using the GxHP hybrids now. Word has it, that Sensis breeding program is nowhere what it use to be, and even rumors of Sensi letting private growers do their breeding for them have been circulated. At one time, (most likely the time where Neville directly influenced things) Sensi was a prestigious seedbank and still remains so today from all accounts. But they are living on past glory more so then current accomplishments or holdings from my understanding.

Some information about the breeding of G13 hybrids.

Hi all

the G13 was crossed to the male skunk as the g13 was in clone female form with Nev for a long time. When I carried on the work from Nev it was already a 50:50 G13 female :skunk male.

Hope that helps sort it out for you.

All the best Shantibaba
__________________________

Hi All

the G13 cutting was crossed to a skunk male in the early 90's when the G13 cutting seemed to be on its way out. Nev did several crosses to combine the genes before the plant became extinct in its pure female form. So I went on with several of these lines one is G13skunk(female) combined with the widow male(same widow used for the BW, MM ,La N and SS).

I hope that clears things up for you all.

Wishing you all a great and safe 2007...

all the best SB

 

[redeye24/7]

Another Q

Hi JessE, does this mean the G13Widow is

(G13xSkunk#1)xSkunk#1 x Widow Male?

"Hi All

the G13 cutting was crossed to a skunk male in the early 90's when the G13 cutting seemed to be on its way out. Nev did several crosses to combine the genes before the plant became extinct in its pure female form. So I went on with several of these lines one is G13skunk(female) combined with the widow male(same widow used for the BW, MM ,La N and SS).

I hope that clears things up for you all.

Wishing you all a great and safe 2007...

all the best SB"

peace all.

 

[Wizard of Oz]

GWidow is GSkunk female,Widow male.
As for Sensi still having seeds of GHash plant,to do a breeding program,I doubt it very much.And to advertise it as a strain called "Mr Nice",well that is a very stupid thing to do,name a strain after ya old workers,new seed bank. Trying to cash in on that old "G" name,just like every body else who wishes that they had the originals!!! Shanti even asked Sensi not to use that name,but,ya all can see for ya self,what happened!
Neville would never have dreamed that all this controversy would come out of a little cutting,from way back!!!
If Sensi had seeds,then they must have got them from The Seed Bank(Nev), originally,anyway,so why doesn't Neville,Shanti sell this strain,anymore?!!
Sam the Skunkman and Neville,owned Cultivators Choice,then went their own seperate ways,when Neville joined with Sensi! Sam and Neville worked on Skunk,together,at the time,but Sam is responsible for the original crossing!!!