Fem seeds and there impact on the future of the species known as cannabis.

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BullSHIT!!!

If i may be so bold as to ask, 'why do you care soo much?'

Are you planning something?

Do you know something i dont?

I know you dont, and i know you dont.

Why do you insist on bullshit?

I bet you do do care...

How much???

Fucking Awesome!!! i got some sub-par sib matings in the form of hermie low yeilding copies.

At least do it right in the form of an emergency. Fuck everyone at that point just cuz there is no other option.

No make that your bussiness plan bro...Hows it sellin'?

I will fight you for it...

GITT i know you are a thirteen year old girl typing on your lap top, but...
Anywhere.
Anytime.

Fuck you on the behalf of every person you have ever encountered
:D
 
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If i may be so bold as to ask, 'why do you care soo much?'

Are you planning something?

Do you know something i dont?

I know you dont, and i know you dont.

Why do you insist on bullshit?

I bet you do do care...

How much???

Fucking Awesome!!! i got some sub-par sib matings in the form of hermie low yeilding copies.

At least do it right in the form of an emergency. Fuck everyone at that point just cuz there is no other option.

No make that your bussiness plan bro...Hows it sellin'?

I will fight you for it...

GITT i know you are a thirteen year old girl typing on your lap top, but...
Anywhere.
Anytime.

Fuck you on the behalf of every person you have ever encountered
:D

maybe he gives a shit about the state cannabis is now in... and the reason shanti et al has to travel the planet for new genes!!!!
 
WHO AM I TO TELL? well i am a equal a person sat on a computer just like you. a person who treats others as they treat others. do you not like that? dose it not suit your ego? well maybe people should think about how they treat others if people like you or GITT want others to treat them any better. you get what you give and if you don't like it give better.:rolleyes:

PS welcome to the net were a name is just that not someone in the real world. in fact you could try and find out who i am by my IP address or what ever its called. but well that wont go no were with who i am so i guess you will never truly know who i am. guess that makes me a stranger that treat others how they deserve to be treat based on how they treat others. it's call treating people fairly were i come from in the real world.:D

edited to ad i shouldn't of wrote this but i have. instead i should of just put you on ignore. me and you aren't going to see eye to eye. you think i am picking on your friend in the real world so i am just putting you on ignore now with our friend GITT. i wish i could say its been fun but well its not fun talking to you 2. that's why i am not going to no more.

no I enjoy some of your posts, its the net I don't know you, but I know hypocrisy when I see it.
 
Warmke and Davidson established many years ago that Hermaphrodites in Cannabis are the sole result of tetraploid sexual expression, ie XXXY. Zhatov confirmed these results several decades later. Diploid samples can only express themselves as male or female. Whether chemicals like Gibberelic acid actually cause diploids to mutate into tetraploids or they just cause latent tetraploids to express themselves is a matter that to this day has not been resolved scientifically.

you crack me up Josh. well I have got rid of a lot of tetraploids (4n) then, how foolish of me!

all from RCC's book

4.6 ~ Polyploidy

Cannabis usually is a simple diploid plant, but polyploids having several sets of chromosomes can be produced by mutation. Polyploid cannabis usually is larger, produces more resin, and reproduces better than diploids. It is distinguishable by its darker, thicker foliage, and by microscopic analysis. Tetraploid monoecious hemp plants are selected by examination of the number and size of stomata, the number of epidermis and stoma cells, the size of pollen grains, and their number of pores. (19)

Polyploids are valuable for their genetic diversity, but they are unpredictable and usually are unstable in the first generation. They also tend to be sterile and must be propagated by clonal cuttings to be useful for subsequent breeding.

Studies by Warmke and Zhatov revealed that the normal sex ratio for diploids (2n) is nearly 1:1, but tetraploids (4n) form a new class (XXXY) and develop about 7.5 females:1 male, plus female-hermaphrodites. The XXXX is female; XXXY is female-hermaphroditic; XYYY is male-hermaphroditic, and YYYY is male. The XY determination of sex does not account, however, for the development of some monoecious strains. Seemingly, the sexual expression of hemp can be controlled by some other gene set(s) influencing different aspects of flowering. Environmental conditions also can overpower the genetic expression of Cannabis' gender, especially in the final stages of flower production. (20-23)

A. Zhatov (1979) reported these results of his research into hemp genetics:

"Change of ploidy... induced changes on some economically valuable characteristics and biological features. Tetraploid plants of dioecious hemp are characterized with sharply pronounced dioecism: plants with sexual deviations appear in the population of tetraploid hemp. Sex chromosomes of hemp on the tetraploid level play a paramount part in sex determination, but the process of determination is affected by autosomic genes...

"The viability of microspores of polyploid hemp is lower as compared with microspores of diploid hemp. During the storage, polyploid pollen loses the ability to produce pollen tubes of normal length. Selection of plants with the best regulated meiosis may raise the viability of polyploid microspores." (24, 25)

A. Zhatov, N. Migal, and other researchers have used gamma-irradiation of hempseed to mutate the subsequent plant. Presowing irradiation causes a drastic decrease in the survival rate of dioecious male plants and monoecious heterozygotic plants. Male sterility is manifested by empty pollen grains. The proportion of male plants in M1 is reduced to about 14%, and the height of plants is reduced by almost 75%. The number of branches and seed yields are increased, and the fiber content is increased by 30%. (26)

W. Hoffman and E. Knapp treated hemp seeds with x-rays, with these results:

"With increased dosage, the damage to the plants increased, the number of survivors decreased, and the sex ratio changed in favor of the females... With increased dosage, an increasing number of divergent types arose, especially of monoecious plants, and of male-like females. With increased dosage of x-rays, an increased percentage of tendrilled plants was also found... It is possible by means of x-ray treatment to change the sexuality of hemp and to get the normal dioecious hemp to a constant monoecious strain."

When hemp pollen is treated with ultraviolet light for one hour, the seed obtained from the resulting plants produces twice as many females as males.

Colchicine--- Tetraploidy can be induced by the mutagenic alkaloid colchicine, which is found in the autumn crocus, (colchicum autumnale). Colchicine allows a cell to double its chromosomes, but prevents meiosis (the splitting of cells), thus forcing the cells to become polyploid. When applied to cannabis, colchicine produces tetraploid plants which tend to be taller, with greater stem diameter, seed and pollen size. The THC content can increase up to 250%.(27)

A. Zhatov, et al., reported these findings from their research:

"The greatest % of polyploid plants is obtained when hemp plants are treated with 0.5% colchicine solution for 2 hours in the phase of cotyledon leaves. The treatment with colchicine solution inhibits growth. This inhibition continues for 2.5-3 weeks, after which the surviving plants resume normal growth and development. The guard cells in the leaves and the pollen grains of tetraploid plants are larger and the number of pores on the pollen grains are greater. Tetraploid plants are taller and the diameter of their stems, seed size and weight of 1000 seeds are greater. The anatomical structure of the stems differs from the diploid plants in a greater amount of primary and secondary fiber. The pollen viability of the tetraploid plants is lower than that of diploid plants. Vegetation period in tetraploids continues 8-15 days longer than in control plants." (28)

Colchicine also can sprayed on the seeds while they are developing on the mother plant. The flowers of plants treated in this manner should not be smoked because the concentration of colchicine may be dangerously high. A third method is to soak seeds in the solution for 2 to 4 hours. Colchicine stimulates the development of the taproot at first, but this effect ceases within a week; then the seedlings go into shock. About 30% of the survivors will be polyploid.

Colchicine can be bought, or prepared by grinding 100 grams of colchicum seeds to powder and percolating with 2 volumes of ethanol and 1 volume of water. The solution contains approximately 4 milligrams of colchicine. Label the bottle and store it safely: colchicine is toxic. Always wear rubber gloves when handling colchicine.

and from chapter 3.

Polyploidy

Polyploidy is the condition of multiple sets of chromosomes within one cell. Cannabis has 20 chromosomes in the vegetative diploid (2n) condition. Triploid (3n) and tetraploid (4n) individuals have three or four sets of chromosomes and are termed polyploids. It is believed that the haploid condition of 10 chromosomes was likely derived by reduction from a higher (polyploid) ancestral number (Lewis, W. H. 1980). Polyploidy has not been shown to occur naturally in Cannabis; however, it may be induced artificially with colchicine treatments. Colchicine is a poisonous compound extracted from the roots of certain Colchicum species; it inhibits chromosome segregation to daughter cells and cell wall formation, resulting in larger than average daughter cells with multiple chromosome sets. The studies of H. E. Warmke et al. (1942-1944) seem to indicate that colchicine raised drug levels in Cannabis. It is unfortunate that Warmke was unaware of the actual psychoactive ingredients of Cannabis and was therefore unable to extract THC. His crude acetone extract and archaic techniques of bioassay using killifish and small freshwater crustaceans are far from conclusive. He was, however, able to produce both triploid and tetraploid strains of Cannabis with up to twice the potency of dip bid strains (in their ability to kill small aquatic organisms). The aim of his research was to "produce a strain of hemp with materially reduced marijuana content" and his results indicated that polyploidy raised the potency of Cannabis without any apparent increase in fiber quality or yield.

Warmke's work with polyploids shed light on the nature of sexual determination in Cannabis. He also illustrated that potency is genetically determined by creating a lower potency strain of hemp through selective breeding with low potency parents.

More recent research by A. I. Zhatov (1979) with fiber Cannabis showed that some economically valuable traits such as fiber quantity may be improved through polyploidy. Polyploids require more water and are usually more sensitive to changes in environment. Vegetative growth cycles are extended by up to 30-40% in polyploids. An extended vegetative period could delay the flowering of polyploid drug strains and interfere with the formation of floral clusters. It would be difficult to determine if cannabinoid levels had been raised by polyploidy if polyploid plants were not able to mature fully in the favorable part of the season when cannabinoid production is promoted by plentiful light and warm temperatures. Greenhouses and artificial lighting can be used to extend the season and test polyploid strains.

The height of tetraploid (4n) Cannabis in these experiments often exceeded the height of the original diploid plants by 25-30%. Tetraploids were intensely colored, with dark green leaves and stems and a well developed gross phenotype. Increased height and vigorous growth, as a rule, vanish in subsequent generations. Tetraploid plants often revert back to the diploid condition, making it difficult to support tetraploid populations. Frequent tests are performed to determine if ploidy is changing.

Triploid (3n) strains were formed with great difficulty by crossing artificially created tetraploids (4n) with dip bids (2n). Triploids proved to be inferior to both diploids and tetraploids in many cases.

De Pasquale et al. (1979) conducted experiments with Cannabis which was treated with 0.25% and 0.50% solutions of colchicine at the primary meristem seven days after generation. Treated plants were slightly taller and possessed slightly larger leaves than the controls, Anomalies in leaf growth occurred in 20% and 39%, respectively, of the surviving treated plants. In the first group (0.25%) cannabinoid levels were highest in the plants without anomalies, and in the second group (0.50%) cannabinoid levels were highest in plants with anomalies, Overall, treated plants showed a 166-250% increase in THC with respect to controls and a decrease of CBD (30-33%) and CBN (39-65%). CBD (cannabidiol) and CBN (cannabinol) are cannabinoids involved in the biosynthesis and degradation of THC. THC levels in the control plants were very low (less than 1%). Possibly colchicine or the resulting polyploidy interferes with cannabinoid biogenesis to favor THC. In treated plants with deformed leaf lamina, 90% of the cells are tetraploid (4n 40) and 10% diploid (2n 20). In treated plants without deformed lamina a few cells are tetraploid and the remainder are triploid or diploid.

The transformation of diploid plants to the tetraploid level inevitably results in the formation of a few plants with an unbalanced set of chromosomes (2n + 1, 2n - 1, etc.). These plants are called aneuploids. Aneuploids are inferior to polyploids in every economic respect. Aneuploid Cannabis is characterized by extremely small seeds. The weight of 1,000 seeds ranges from 7 to 9 grams (1/4 to 1/3 ounce). Under natural conditions diploid plants do not have such small seeds and average 14-19 grams (1/2-2/3 ounce) per 1,000 (Zhatov 1979).

Once again, little emphasis has been placed on the relationship between flower or resin production and polyploidy. Further research to determine the effect of polyploidy on these and other economically valuable traits of Cannabis is needed.

Colchicine is sold by laboratory supply houses, and breeders have used it to induce polyploidy in Cannabis. However, colchicine is poisonous, so special care is exercised by the breeder in any use of it. Many clandestine cultivators have started polyploid strains with colchicine. Except for changes in leaf shape and phyllotaxy, no out standing characteristics have developed in these strains and potency seems unaffected. However, none of the strains have been examined to determine if they are actually polyploid or if they were merely treated with colchicine to no effect. Seed treatment is the most effective and safest way to apply colchicine. * In this way, the entire plant growing from a colchicine-treated seed could be polyploid and if any colchicine exists at the end of the growing season the amount would be infinitesimal. Colchicine is nearly always lethal to Cannabis seeds, and in the treatment there is a very fine line between polyploidy and death. In other words, if 100 viable seeds are treated with colchicine and 40 of them germinate it is unlikely that the treatment induced polyploidy in any of the survivors. On the other hand, if 1,000 viable treated seeds give rise to 3 seedlings, the chances are better that they are polyploid since the treatment killed all of the seeds but those three. It is still necessary to determine if the offspring are actually polyploid by microscopic examination.

The work of Menzel (1964) presents us with a crude map of the chromosomes of Cannabis, Chromosomes 2-6 and 9 are distinguished by the length of each arm. Chromosome 1 is distinguished by a large knob on one end and a dark chromomere 1 micron from the knob. Chromosome 7 is extremely short and dense, and chromosome 8 is assumed to be the sex chromosome. In the future, chromosome *The word "safest" is used here as a relative term. Coichicine has received recent media attention as a dangerous poison and while these accounts are probably a bit too lurid, the real dangers of exposure to coichicine have not been fully researched. The possibility of bodily harm exists and this is multiplied when breeders inexperienced in handling toxins use colchicine. Seed treatment might be safer than spraying a grown plant but the safest method of all is to not use colchicine. mapping will enable us to picture the location of the genes influencing the phenotype of Cannabis. This will enable geneticists to determine and manipulate the important characteristics contained in the gene pool. For each trait the number of genes in control will be known, which chromosomes carry them, and where they are located along those chromosomes.
 
no I enjoy some of your posts, its the net I don't know you, but I know hypocrisy when I see it.

i am going to take this opportunity to apologize to GitT. i think i jumped on him prematurely. the reason i did so was based on the manner in which i seen him posting in this thread with a aggressive manner which i stick by i might ad. there is no need to post in a manner like that hence i have had both you on my ignored list. however i read a few posts recently made towards GitT on other threads by people who have posted in this thread and feel he's just simply retaliated to them. i am not saying that behavior is right GitT but i am not perfect like everyone else and have done so without really thinking about it myself in the past.

so i hope you accept my apology GitT and understand i was simply responding to the posts made at the time on this thread. without understanding about other post made towards you on other thread's at the time which may of caused you to retaliate. i just hope you can just use the ignore function in future or discuss the difference of opinion on chat or pm. as you can see posting in a aggressive manner as a response can make you seem a really nasty piece of work like i did.

UP i may of been hypocrisy as you said but that's what my point was at the time of posting. my posts weren't meant to be nice hence (you get what you give) hypocrisy. see the posts i had read on this thread weren't nice ether. i like to learn from these threads and posting nasty posts about each other and telling people to leave is really annoying and off putting. would you not agree? i apologize to you for having to read them and feel you had to get involved.

so i apologize to you both for my actions but i ask GitT can you please think about how your posts look to others before making them please? i think your not a bad person but just got caught up in things that make you post in a bad manner at the time of writing. i think you have a lot to give to this thread and forum but need to stop responding to others that make your post seem aggressive to the reader to be fully appreciated.

so i apologize here publicly not by pm because i feel that's the right way to do it as my posts have all been public. i am going to stop there as its starting to look like a rant not a apology
 
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UP i may of been hypocrisy as you said but that's what my point was at the time of posting. my posts weren't meant to be nice hence (you get what you give) hypocrisy. see the posts i had read on this thread weren't nice ether. i like to learn from these threads and posting nasty posts about each other and telling people to leave is really annoying and off putting. would you not agree? i apologize to you for having to read them and feel you had to get involved.

No problem I'm thick skinned, like yourself I think, sometimes I forget the bigger picture instead I go for the juggular something I'm trying to change.. like you I love to learn.. I also feel GitT has plenty to offer, he is a good fella who actually is very kind, it maybe doesn't come across like so all the time but this is the net it is easy to take things wrong or be stubborn..and yes I'm as stubborn as anyone... but I'd put my nuts on he chopper for GitT as I both respect him and like him (even if our first exchange was hostile!)...

Kopite
 
Our first exchange was hostile? I just don't see that happening...I'm a bunny a soft furry bunny




OF FUUUUUURRRRRRRYYYYYYY!!!

(yep, I've been drinking coffee and smoking bubble this morning)

Lets keep this on track folks. No reason to make it all personal. Having said that apologies accepted all around.

Hopefully we're on the same page now:

Proper feminization techniqes (chemical treatments that induce sex reversal) are simply a tool. Tools aren't evil and don't have an agenda they're completely dependent upon how you use them. A hammer can help build a house or you can smash your nuts with one. It's up to you. In the end it's all selection.
 
watership+down.png
 
Oscar-
I posted that paper myself here and happened to be reading it again earlier tonight. I think it's funny that you're using those quotes. The Y isn't empty.
Oops, sorry I missed that. I didn't say the Y was empty. I didn't mean to imply that if anyone thought that. I believe I read that Y is larger numerically wise than the X. I posted the paper because it seemed a good round up of the ideas of what people think about the sex of cannabis.
 
@Freedon_Fighter (maybe some of the rest of you active participants as well) given your intense interest, maybe should think about reading this thread from the first post to the last. _All_ the way through and it'll be difficult, because there is a lot of chaff amongst the wheat. That's a polite saying way of saying, there's a lot of bullshit and flame fests but almost all of them have been removed. ;)

You will learn more about cannabis genetics than you will out of any other thread on this forum. You will find more practical, useful information regarding the development of cannabis in this thread than you will in any argumentative thread debating who originated and/or made the best Hz.:eek:

This thread and this one as well are filled with useful, practical information on the development of cannabis:


Again mu, the next time you and Shanti communicate, tell him _thanks_ from this old geezer for keeping such vital, reference information available. ☮️
 
@Freedon_Fighter (maybe some of the rest of you active participants as well) given your intense interest, maybe should think about reading this thread from the first post to the last. _All_ the way through and it'll be difficult, because there is a lot of chaff amongst the wheat.

Thanks for the tip, Chuck. I'll read through it, all 65 pages. If I have questions afterward, I may post them in a fresh thread and link it this one. I read through page 1 and the one thing I find to be a bit challenging is the lack of supporting citations, or documentation from the relevant literature.

For example, one dude claims, on page 1 of this thread, that the ONLY thing a male passes onto a female is the male chromosome. That's it; but he provides no documented proof for that claim.

Perhaps R.C. Clarke is cited at some point, in this thread, but I have to wonder what he would say to the above claim? And what he thinks about the male's true value in plant breeding? Does he approve of feminized plant breeding and the elimination of males from cannabis breeding?
 
Thanks for the tip, Chuck. I'll read through it, all 65 pages. If I have questions afterward, I may post them in a fresh thread and link it this one. I read through page 1 and the one thing I find to be a bit challenging is the lack of supporting citations, or documentation from the relevant literature.

For example, one dude claims, on page 1 of this thread, that the ONLY thing a male passes onto a female is the male chromosome. That's it; but he provides no documented proof for that claim.

Perhaps R.C. Clarke is cited at some point, in this thread, but I have to wonder what he would say to the above claim? And what he thinks about the male's true value in plant breeding? Does he approve of feminized plant breeding and the elimination of males from cannabis breeding?
Keep reading, it _will_ get better. And try to concentrate on Nevil's posts and there are several others in this thread who I respect but I really don't want to name, because I don't want to skewer any objectivity you may have. Many of the posts you'll find are highly insightful while others are blathering bullshit.:eek:

Such is the nature of communication on web-based cannabis fora.🤪

The more you read, the more you'll gain an understanding of who knows what they're talking about and who's using science and/or bullshit to puff up their ego.

It's been a while since I plowed through all this. I just came back here to pick up some specific info, so I can't remember if there's a lot of externally linked citations/sources. But as you'll see from reading Nevil's posts, you don't have to have a college degree in Molecular Genetics to understand genetic inheritance in cannabis. ;)
 
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