Fem seeds and there impact on the future of the species known as cannabis.

[Donald Mallard]

Donald when I say 70-80% fems I am talking all strains, not that 1 strain and that plant that I found the flower was from my cross in 85. That strain has been grown in 3 different areas of Australia and has been through stress you couldnt imagine.....never did it again.
I can also tell you that I have never used intersex plants for breeding.
Bushy got a 70-80% ratio as well and that is using a few different strains of Shanti's, Nimbin and mine, cant get much better proof that what I say about percentages is true.

ill start here cause im still trying to disipher hempys reply ...

ok so we are talking numbers again , how many plants is our friend bushy growing to forumlate a % . remembering ,and im sure he will know , ,a % is a number out of 100 ... any less is not a % ...

 

[bushweed]

No but its a convenient (if specious) argument that anyone who gets more than 50% females are growing intersex plants. Reminds me of the sort of formulaic reactionary rationale the conservatives come up with to refute anthropogenic climate change, or better yet, "the Earth is FLAT."
"but we've observed it to be round"
"that's because your telescope has a concave lense."
That's alright we'll just chuck more chemicals in the environment - that's the intelligent way to go, research has shown it thus, its irrefutable. Well, but who paid for the research MONSANTO? Yes but, no but, yes but no. And Monsanto Sam reports 70% females in the original Haze. "Well fuck him - you Luddites have been saying all along he's a shyster - we'll get another deity"

 

[Donald Mallard]

Another icon of the pro fem seeds crowd - Rezdog - perpetually has people on his vendor forum complaining of hermies from his stock, but we'll just infer its the dumb cunts in the Bush who are perpetuating those intersex lines..

definately not an icon of mine , he uses clones that show intersexed traits , so you get what you pay for there ,, mind you , you do pay a lot ,, lol ... and dont expect a replacement for none striking ,,, darn , what a business man ,,, anyhow ,, definately not an icon as far as i know or in my books ...

 

[Kangativa]

Pop 1000 and show us. Why speak genetics to someone who obviously doesn't understand simple statistics?

Lol...What you think after 40yrs of growing Ive only grown 1 plant a year.
ah I love it when kids try to preach to someone who has been around MJ for over 50yrs It makes my day..lol

 

[hempy]

You mean a recessive intersex trait can be masked in outcrosses? teach us more oh wise one. Surely it must mean that gynoecious releases are worthless. Sing it to the mountain for all the ignorant to hear. STONER-GATE indeed.

Its funny i post a pic of the S1 MH i selected sed after extra weeks of veg i got her larger and its on agine lol (In my god father the movie text) I try and stay out of it yet they just keep pulling me back in kicks comp desk well okay lol.

Green how many seed plant grows you done from reading think you have grow 4 or 5 years correct me if i am wrong as i know you will and in that time you have grown mostly clones correct maybe so many hybrids select from to and grown indoors under perfect or almost perfect environmental conditions correct unlike found in nature.

Explane to us as your the man in the white coat that seams to know more than any one posting here or thinks to know more than any one posting what importance dose a male bring in the union of a fem and male canna plant because the male brings more than pollen but we have been threw this pages ago any way.

while your at it explane to us on a more complex level and not in unproven thearys as there like a cheep whore over used and no fun why do some plants express in late flower a few male pollen pods and yet seeds from it if pollen is used to pollinate a clone of its self that is in early flower will not or why clones of it will not for generation after do the same or why a plant in early flower can produce a single seed at the node yet have no seed in any part of the plants flower at harvest.

Why not explane to me and others how can a plant in flower grow out a new small branch with only a male flower yet the clones from this plant grown generations later dont you cant can you.

But willing to here your valid proven explanation that has been proven and backed up by real research not some half ass unproven theoretic argument that is related to peas corn.

 

[Kangativa]

ill start here cause im still trying to disipher hempys reply ...

ok so we are talking numbers again , how many plants is our friend bushy growing to forumlate a % . remembering ,and im sure he will know , ,a % is a number out of 100 ... any less is not a % ...

Ahh but Donald what you need to put into that equation is that I gave him some of those plants ( not seed ) and there are a few other friends around that I also did the same to....# are starting to add up now.
If I ever stop growing Ill put up some #'s and photos for you, but until then if you dont believe me .....well what can I say.

 

[Donald Mallard]

No but its a convenient (if specious) argument that anyone who gets more than 50% females are growing intersex plants. Reminds me of the sort of formulaic reactionary rationale the conservatives come up with to refute anthropogenic climate change, or better yet, "the Earth is FLAT."
"but we've observed it to be round"
"that's because your telescope has a concave lense."
That's alright we'll just chuck more chemicals in the environment - that's the intelligent way to go, research has shown it thus, its irrefutable. Well, but who paid for the research MONSANTO? Yes but, no but, yes but no. And Monsanto Sam reports 70% females in the original Haze. "Well fuck him - you Luddites have been saying all along he's a shyster - we'll get another deity"

Hey bushy ,, man ,, least we all have something to do on a lazy wednesday hehe ..
its finally stopped raining here and is quite a nice evening ...

yes i do have to do a little work on my vision ,, getting older i guess , still i think im seeing better further and not so well closer , thank goodness for that + button on pics , hehe ... .

im really not telling tales with the typical female to male ratios ,i know your a articulate fella ,, do some research on statistics ,, plant female to male ratios , etc , dont listen to an old hippy like me .. i just grow gunja ....

 

[Donald Mallard]

Lol...What you think after 40yrs of growing Ive only grown 1 plant a year.
ah I love it when kids try to preach to someone who has been around MJ for over 50yrs It makes my day..lol

hey kanga , wow you look so good in the pics ive seen for your age , im betting thats the good wholesome living and nice erbs , good vibes down there , i think peace of mind and wholesome healthy living in a nice environment is like the elixer of life ,, keeps you young and healthy ...

Im not sure its how long you grow that counts , i think your a great grower and deserve great rep for it , but it certainly doesnt mean you know everything ,,

well at least here none of us know who is a young person and who isnt , im not sure that counts where knowlege is concerned ,,, a good balance is practical and theoretical ...
its a big world out there ,, some really intelligent folks with a lot of experience , we are just big fish in a small pond living where we do , thinking we need to prove something ..

 

[Donald Mallard]

Ahh but Donald what you need to put into that equation is that I gave him some of those plants ( not seed ) and there are a few other friends around that I also did the same to....# are starting to add up now.
If I ever stop growing Ill put up some #'s and photos for you, but until then if you dont believe me .....well what can I say.

a bunch of folks growing small numbers of plants in different locations isnt a controlled experiment . it doesnt count .
the total numbers of plants of many small grows in different locations isnt the same as a controlled experiment of 100 , or 1000 , or 10000 plant in one location ...
im no scientist , but remember experiments at school ,, and its pretty easy to read in a book on how to conduct one properly ...
i dont believe you because its not a properly controlled experiment , its just speculation ... the folks that have done controlled experiments have found different ...

 

[Donald Mallard]

shit that must be the most ive written in ages ,, still to reply to hempy ,, darn thats never an easy task ...
dont think of me as an assehole that gives you a hard time (though im probably just that , hehe),, i just want us to be correct ,,old wives tales should be tossed aside .. no harm in that right??

 

[bushweed]

Hey bushy ,, man ,, least we all have something to do on a lazy wednesday hehe ..
its finally stopped raining here and is quite a nice evening ...

yes i do have to do a little work on my vision ,, getting older i guess , still i think im seeing better further and not so well closer , thank goodness for that + button on pics , hehe ... .

im really not telling tales with the typical female to male ratios ,i know your a articulate fella ,, do some research on statistics ,, plant female to male ratios , etc , dont listen to an old hippy like me .. i just grow gunja ....

Of course mate, what's a bit of banter among friends? I've got a couple of mates down the road who are dyed in the wool conservatives, and my politics are as Green as they come, but they're still my friends and that's not gonna change. Likewise with any good people here.

But mate you said yourself - you've observed 60% females in your time. Now Kanga - who along with you, Nev, Shanti and a couple of others - is someone whose grow log over the years numbers in the thousands - reports 70 - 80%. And SamS who has probably grown more ganja than anyone on the planet (with the possible exception of Howard Marks) reports 70% for Original Haze.

Now 60%, 70-80% and 70% - from statistically significant numbers - is a little different to 50/50%.

The most salient point in the whole Fem seeds debate is that cynical vendors know that each year the consumer has to buy more of their seeds to grow the plants, because the Fem seeds won't reproduce themselves. And this is why pundits have likened the Fem seeds trend to the way Monsanto has operated - it is a trend that holds a severe risk that if everybody buys Fem seeds, the guys who hold the original stock will have a monopoly on reproducible seed, at the same time diversity is decreased - exactly as has been the case with wheat or corn.

That some people work that angle is the worst that capitalism has to offer.

The converse argument that growers are given more convenience is rather like fast food outlets pointing to the convenience of a cheap, fast meal. But seriously who's gonna feed their kids McDonalds every day? I bet that idea is pretty much averse to the ethos of an old ganja growing hippie? Can you see the analogy

 

[Donald Mallard]

Of course mate, what's a bit of banter among friends? I've got a couple of mates down the road who are dyed in the wool conservatives, and my politics are as Green as they come, but they're still my friends and that's not gonna change. Likewise with any good people here.

But mate you said yourself - you've observed 60% females in your time. Now Kanga - who along with you, Nev, Shanti and a couple of others - is someone whose grow log over the years numbers in the thousands - reports 70 - 80%. And SamS who has probably grown more ganja than anyone on the planet (with the possible exception of Howard Marks) reports 70% for Original Haze.

Now 60%, 70-80% and 70% - from statistically significant numbers - is a little different to 50/50%.

The most salient point in the whole Fem seeds debate is that cynical vendors know that each year the consumer has to buy more of their seeds to grow the plants, because the Fem seeds won't reproduce themselves. And this is why pundits have likened the Fem seeds trend to the way Monsanto has operated - it is a trend that holds a severe risk that if everybody buys Fem seeds, the guys who hold the original stock will have a monopoly on reproducible seed, at the same time diversity is decreased - exactly as has been the case with wheat or corn.

That some people work that angle is the worst that capitalism has to offer.

The converse argument that growers are given more convenience is rather like fast food outlets pointing to the convenience of a cheap, fast meal. But seriously who's gonna feed their kids McDonalds every day? I bet that idea is pretty much averse to the ethos of an old ganja growing hippie? Can you see the analogy

darn those conservatives , typically ive not been one to show any biased as far as political parties go , but im pretty sure my grandad would haunt me if i didnt vote labour ,, lol ... green ,, yep im all for it ,, all the green we can get ,,..
i hear ;you on the capitalism angle and know well who we speak of ,, man what can you do ?? ,, if it makes us argue then wankers like that win ..

so how does the seed business look like to you in the future ,, a yates seedlist ? lets hope theres also the eden seeds , diggers , and the other open pollenated , rare and heirloom varieties , thats where ill be hanging my hat ...

 

[Kangativa]

Donald the truth is I dont know jack shit about any strains outside of my own little world which I havent collected or worked with.
All I have been doing is stating what I have discovered with what I work with and have grown.
Thats it.....so as I fully state I dont know everything, but I do know about what I have worked with since I first started growing and that my friend is what I base my knowledge on and discuss with the community.
Now I am not stupid enough to say that what I have learnt from what I have done applies to everybody or every strain and that is not my intention.
So the thing is I do know what I have achieved with my strains and people can jump up and down and try to say I am wrong......but Ill tell you what mate I am not

 

[Kangativa]

"hey kanga , wow you look so good in the pics ive seen for your age , im betting thats the good wholesome living and nice erbs , good vibes down there , i think peace of mind and wholesome healthy living in a nice environment is like the elixer of life ,, keeps you young and healthy ... "

Lol.....Photo shop mate, it does wonders

 

[Donald Mallard]

Mate a little pollen goes a long way you know this right so how do you explane a plant standing say ruffly 8 foot or taller in early flower out doors and as you look at it as its starting to flower in very early flower you see a single seed on this plant forming yet no other flower has a single seed and yet this seeds forming in a pod just at the node im all ears for any one to explane it to me as i cant if it was stray pollen from some other plant would it not have seed forming in other parts of the plant you would think so right.

hi hempy ,, yes a little pollen does go a long way ,

if there is pollenation there is a male flower on that female or a male nearby, it may not be a very viable male flower or its pollen mostly died getting to the female , but nontheless it will be a male flower .. . not all male cannabis flowers are as fertile as the average aussie male .. lol ...



[/QUOTE]Now if a plant produces 10 to say 20 seeds max it could of come from a single male pollen pod right any more than that you would find seeds right threw the plant or have the plant produce more seeds becouse for it to produce seed it needs to be pollinated in flower not pollinated late in flower as it wont have time to form seed
[/QUOTE]
not sure on that ,, how would u rate time to produce seed?? immature seeds form very fast ..

[/QUOTE]Chemical sex reversal is not cut and dry is it your treating the plant and stressing it dont tell me your not now for it to change from female to male there has to be change a curing at some biological level which has to be stressful on the plant.

There is a self preservation triga in cannabis and plants produce a natural hormone that causes a fem to make some pollen there is a very large difference in a plant line that shows both female and male flowers at sexing to a plant that shows a few male pollen pods late in flower mate.[/QUOTE]

nope ,, they are both intersexed plants ,, doesnt matter what time they show it , if they show both sexes , they are intersexed ...



[/QUOTE]Come on mate we have people that have grown 3 grows telling people like Neville what is what that is the reality of the on line canna community most only believe what is written in books or posts in forums and even if its staring them in the face they will use unproven thearys to prove there right and that person wrong .[/QUOTE]
not sure hempy , but im sure youll find theres heaps and heaps of guys around the world witn bunches of grows under their belts ,, we all just try to exhange information in a non hostile kinda way ,, trying to avoid the

my penis is larger than yours thing going on ,, my plants are bigger than yours ,, ive seen more gunja than you ever did ,, my dad is bigger than yours .. you know that


[/QUOTE]
ok at my self as a person that likes cannabis i have never thort of my self as nothing more but i have gained a lot of info from shanti and know hopeful to from Neville but at the same time i know with out sounding cocky i have lots to shear also but i will also say i dont know it all no one does thats the point.

I read so much bull shit on line that i honestly feel some times no matter how hard you try you just cant brake threw it the reality is we have kids with one grow under there belts telling growers of 40 years how it needs to be done.[/QUOTE]

its about humility , as you say no one can know it all ,, im happy to , and have learnt from guys younger than me , just because someone hasnt grown much cannabis , doesnt mean they dont have good ideas ,, growing cannabis is pretty easy , wouldnt you say ,, ???

 

[Donald Mallard]

"hey kanga , wow you look so good in the pics ive seen for your age , im betting thats the good wholesome living and nice erbs , good vibes down there , i think peace of mind and wholesome healthy living in a nice environment is like the elixer of life ,, keeps you young and healthy ... "

Lol.....Photo shop mate, it does wonders

ohh my ,, dont tell me your sticking a young head on an old body there mate , ,heheheheh .... darn i wish i could photoshop myself ....

 

[bushweed]

Well if Kanga's been around pot for 40 years, that means he would have started when he was in his 40s

 

[gobshite]

I understand that some of you that claim to know it all DONT or will you know it all i have been growing for over 3 decades have grown out doors and in and i am first to stand up and say even if i was to grow until i am 99 and then was to fall into my plants cold dead i still wont know it all at 99.

Males do more than throw pollen into a the mix and what real research has been done on fem seeds in the form of real research nil correct has any breeder making female seed sed there going to have loss of vigor no but those that grow female seeds know this why not tell people this point and any other facts they may know.

can you please provide me with some papers/links to proof that males contribute more than just pollen and the Y! how do they do the repairing? for me its in breeding numbers the lower the less chance of good RCA..

I've come to conclude you have blind faith Hempy, i've seen others such as Mr Greengenes go with the "fact" diversity just comes from males!!

Selfing is the fastest form of inbreeding the coefficient speeds up with selfing hence loss of vigor is seen quicker though you aren't just selfing with fem seed production you are substituting a natural male pollens for a reversed plants pollen hence the coefficient stays relatively equal to that of a population with males.

Anyone given much thought to female plants actively selecting pollen from donars?

Kopite

 

[hempy]

can you please provide me with some papers/links to proof that males contribute more than just pollen and the Y! how do they do the repairing? for me its in breeding numbers the lower the less chance of good RCA..

I've come to conclude you have blind faith Hempy, i've seen others such as Mr Greengenes go with the "fact" diversity just comes from males!!

Selfing is the fastest form of inbreeding the coefficient speeds up with selfing hence loss of vigor is seen quicker though you aren't just selfing with fem seed production you are substituting a natural male pollens for a reversed plants pollen hence the coefficient stays relatively equal to that of a population with males.

Anyone given much thought to female plants actively selecting pollen from donars?

Kopite

Mate faith has nothing to do with growing or breeding cannabis but more to do with selling fem seeds long term i see them on there knees praying to the bobbing head Arjan doll with burning incent asking for sales to remain lol.

Why ow Why goddess Arjan has ow sales reduced to such a level i now need to sell my farrari please help us avoid doing any real breeding lol.

 

[gobshite]

Mate faith has nothing to do with growing or breeding cannabis but more to do with selling fem seeds long term i see them on there knees praying to the bobbing head Arjan doll with burning incent asking for sales to remain lol.

Explane to me why

Hempy thats not just applicaple to fem seeds, its across the board in cannabis. shisters are shisters regardless.