Fem seeds and there impact on the future of the species known as cannabis.

[REDEYE_420]

Awww man, c'mon peeps! Chill out and roll a phattie will ya?

redeye, I'm not quite sure how to receive your post or if it was even directed at me, but with the "stoner-gate" tag in your sig......

Hi Herbert, my post wasn't aimed at you specifically. It was aimed at all the people in this thread-whether they're a member with one post or whether they're a member with a million posts-who are bringing the debate down to a childish level with their name calling, shit slinging, belittling or by trying to be Sherlock Holmes with their detective work. As soon as a thread goes this way it's hard to get it back on track again.

On other forums this usually sounds the death knell of that thread and it gets locked up and forgotten forever, over here that isn't the case. So whatever you say here will be read by whomever joins this site or whoever breezes through looking for information for the period that Shanti sees fit to keep the forum up and running whether it be 10 years, 100 years or forever.

Shanti runs this site out of his own pocket unlike other forums, so if Shanti feels that this site is no longer serving it's purpose-ie to help like minded people talk, learn and show about this plant we all love Cannabis-then I wouldn't blame him for closing it down. I truly hope Shanti doesn't as this site is completely uncensored and it has a wealth of information, not only that but it has two of the greatest Cannabis breeders in the world on hand to help with your issues and to top it all off there is a great community of growers (medicinal and recreational) here that recognise the significance of the hard work, time and effort that has been put into bringing these genetics to our tables.

P.S the Stoner-Gate tag in my sig is because I do believe that there are dark forces at work within the Cannabis (Feminized) seeds industry that have ulterior motives. But hey they are my half baked thoughts and suspicions-nobody else's. GHSco taking landrace seeds from other countries and giving them handfuls of their feminized seeds to plant the next season being one of them thoughts. Random poorly selected feminized seeds releasing their pollen into the air and heaps of landrace genetics being spoilt and fertilized by this pollen....hmmmm no thanks.

If anyone has a specific problem with any of the members here at MNS then I would suggest speaking to Shanti, Nevil or Admini. There is no point arguing in open forums, as like I said this detracts from the topic at hand.

Hi Sadie, I would also like to hear Shanti's take on working with the group/crew of people who intend on releasing feminized seeds. Great point. Hopefully Shanti will be able to fill us in as soon as he gets chance. He is busy though so be patient.

Lets be civil now please peeps....if it helps I'll say 'please' again?

Peace.

Red.

 

[gobshite]

Hi Herbert, my post wasn't aimed at you specifically. It was aimed at all the people in this thread-whether they're a member with one post or whether they're a member with a million posts-who are bringing the debate down to a childish level with their name calling, shit slinging, belittling or by trying to be Sherlock Holmes with their detective work. As soon as a thread goes this way it's hard to get it back on track again.

On other forums this usually sounds the death knell of that thread and it gets locked up and forgotten forever, over here that isn't the case. So whatever you say here will be read by whomever joins this site or whoever breezes through looking for information for the period that Shanti sees fit to keep the forum up and running whether it be 10 years, 100 years or forever.

Shanti runs this site out of his own pocket unlike other forums, so if Shanti feels that this site is no longer serving it's purpose-ie to help like minded people talk, learn and show about this plant we all love Cannabis-then I wouldn't blame him for closing it down. I truly hope Shanti doesn't as this site is completely uncensored and it has a wealth of information, not only that but it has two of the greatest Cannabis breeders in the world on hand to help with your issues and to top it all off there is a great community of growers (medicinal and recreational) here that recognise the significance of the hard work, time and effort that has been put into bringing these genetics to our tables.

P.S the Stoner-Gate tag in my sig is because I do believe that there are dark forces at work within the Cannabis (Feminized) seeds industry that have ulterior motives. But hey they are my half baked thoughts and suspicions-nobody else's. GHSco taking landrace seeds from other countries and giving them handfuls of their feminized seeds to plant the next season being one of them thoughts. Random poorly selected feminized seeds releasing their pollen into the air and heaps of landrace genetics being spoilt and fertilized by this pollen....hmmmm no thanks.

If anyone has a specific problem with any of the members here at MNS then I would suggest speaking to Shanti, Nevil or Admini. There is no point arguing in open forums, as like I said this detracts from the topic at hand.

Hi Sadie, I would also like to hear Shanti's take on working with the group/crew of people who intend on releasing feminized seeds. Great point. Hopefully Shanti will be able to fill us in as soon as he gets chance. He is busy though so be patient.

Lets be civil now please peeps....if it helps I'll say 'please' again?

Peace.

Red.

Sorry the only person most have a prob with is stressie and his many delusional things.. I'll ask again what posts of stressies are that rel to the thread or any discussion being had? he/she is troll here no one else.

Kopite (not hoosier mr delusional)

 

[british_hempire]

P.S the Stoner-Gate tag in my sig is because I do believe that there are dark forces at work within the Cannabis (Feminized) seeds industry that have ulterior motives. But hey they are my half baked thoughts and suspicions-nobody else's. GHSco taking landrace seeds from other countries and giving them handfuls of their feminized seeds to plant the next season being one of them thoughts. Random poorly selected feminized seeds releasing their pollen into the air and heaps of landrace genetics being spoilt and fertilized by this pollen....hmmmm no thanks.

I don't have any solid info about dark forces so I can't comment really, like you I have my suspicions that there is something afoot.

I don't think that is the real danger though, to me, the really big problem is how a lot of people have jumped on the femmed seed bandwagon to make easy profits. A lot of the femmed stuff being sold is simply quick n dirty hacks of a small number of well known lines such as Jack Herer, SSH, Widow, Rhino, Skunk etc. A lot of seed companies these days just take some cuts, spray em with chemicals and produce seeds, the easiest, quickest route to produce a ton of seed and make a profit from their sale. They only introduce new genes in the form of the odd cut here and there, they aren't doing any growing from seed themselves, no selection, no actual breeding, they are contributing nothing to the genepool, just further muddying the already stagnant waters and reducing the genetic diversity. I mean, how many hacks of SSh are there out there now? Without guys like Shanti doing actual breeding work to preserve old lines and create new ones we have precious little beyond the very limited genepool being used by the fem seed profiteers.

The really big danger imho is that real breeders won't be able to stay afloat and in business because they can't sell enough product. If Shanti can't sell enough packs of SSH, Widow, Critical Mass etc to make ends meet because people are buying the fem hacks of his lines instead then that is a very bad thing. I know Cannabiogen and Magus Genetics (both real breeders who do fine work) were forced to produce fem versions of their lines or face going out of business.

Very good point about the damage GHS could and probably have done to the genepool in Southern Africa. Already we have lost substantial parts of the cannabis genepool. Thailand has lost it's indigenous genes, Colombia has too, in Colombia almost everything being grown is 'cripi' - hybrids between the original Colombian lines and imported stuff. It would be immensely sad if Malawi Gold were to be lost because it became polluted with GHS genes.

 

[djoak]

Hello:
I´m not an expert in cannabis&genetics;all I want to say is that in the country where I live (spain) most of the people is using feminized seeds.
I would say that is around 75% 80% of the people that grows.You can´t find anymore regular seeds in the growshops.The last "big" thing are the automatics(autoflowering plants);I have just find out that there´s a new version of critical + (critical mass) called critical + automatic,60/65 days from seed to harvest.
Nice day all.

 

[bushweed]

Hello:
I´m not an expert in cannabis&genetics;all I want to say is that in the country where I live (spain) most of the people is using feminized seeds.
I would say that is around 75% 80% of the people that grows.You can´t find anymore regular seeds in the growshops.The last "big" thing are the automatics(autoflowering plants);I have just find out that there´s a new version of critical + (critical mass) called critical + automatic,60/65 days from seed to harvest.
Nice day all.

That's the crux of the problem right there, & why people need to be alert to this feminized bullshit.

 

[GreenintheThumb]

I accept that a loss of vigour is a major downside to the use of feminised seeds in a breeding program, but I don't know enough about genetics to have any firm opinions on any other possible downsides so I can't really offer further comment.

You can outcross as easily as you can self with reversed pollen; feminised seeds do not necessarily lead to loss of vigor. It depends on SELECTION, and the way you use the tool.

 

[GreenintheThumb]

Stoner-Gate[/B] crew GreenintheThumb, Kopite aka Hoosierdaddy, aka Gobshite aka ?(God knows who else), and a quick glance at the rest of their threads here at the forum and profiles linking them to other Stoner-gate members Moonunit, Darwinsbulldog, krk, Donald Mallard, British Hempire and the rest...its pretty blatently obvious that these trolls/nasty pieces of work have all worked in tandom to take the thread off topic, hide behind facades of lab coats, statistics and other bullshit all in an effort to defend perhaps one of the greatest threats to the cannabis species in Feminized Seeds, a trend which is only growing in popularity, one which could have significant ramifications, (a genetic crisis as Shanti put it) in the future!

Awwww, did Shanti call it a genetic crisis? Then the right thing to do MUST be to partner with a company making fiminized $eed$. Cha-ching!

This thread is dead and it's dead because of rabid ignorant dick riders like you Jesse. Who have nothing to say on the topic but want to derail it with pictures. Keep it on 4chan you know nothing waste of our time.

Stoner gate is over, you made it up; you derailed the thread with it and the people who you so obviously want attention from are in the process of making fem seeds. GAME OVER.

 

[Nevil]

Well there is something weird going on out there in stonerland. I don't really get why penis size has become an issue especially as it is coming from the corner of people who say they don't need males at all. At first I thought it was directed at me, you grow one crop of undersized heritage broccoli....
But seriously, 6 pages of crap. If anyone does say something interesting, it's likely to be glossed over by readers trying to skip the bullshit.
Chimera, you've done a bit of a drive by here. You've taken the time to dump your frustrations on people, who may or may not deserve it, in letters that would have taken me a couple of hours to write, but you didn't give your attention to the subject at hand. Giving a few people a slap in the face and then running off without delivering a useful thing to talk about except your insults has left the thread in disarray. For the second time I ask you, what's your agenda with this?
If you want to debate the topic, then go ahead, but looking at your recent posts, I'm left with the question..
Where's the meat!
N.

 

[GreenintheThumb]

But seriously, 6 pages of crap. If anyone does say something interesting, it's likely to be glossed over by readers trying to skip the bullshit.
Chimera, you've done a bit of a drive by here. You've taken the time to dump your frustrations on people, who may or may not deserve it, in letters that would have taken me a couple of hours to write, but you didn't give your attention to the subject at hand. Giving a few people a slap in the face and then running off without delivering a useful thing to talk about except your insults has left the thread in disarray. For the second time I ask you, what's your agenda with this?
If you want to debate the topic, then go ahead, but looking at your recent posts, I'm left with the question..
Where's the meat!
N.

The meat was in the MADC paper...which I can assume you didn't read? The meat was in the evidence of the Y being responsible for males. The meat was in the fact that the MADC is on the Y. The meat was his statistical certainty that drug cultivars arising from normal m/f matings are always 1:1 male to female.

If all you saw was him slapping your ignorant dick riding fans in the face then you need to work on your reading comprehension.

 

[bushweed]

Hello:
I´m not an expert in cannabis&genetics;all I want to say is that in the country where I live (spain) most of the people is using feminized seeds.
I would say that is around 75% 80% of the people that grows.You can´t find anymore regular seeds in the growshops.The last "big" thing are the automatics(autoflowering plants);I have just find out that there´s a new version of critical + (critical mass) called critical + automatic,60/65 days from seed to harvest.
Nice day all.

There's the meat right there...dismiss that so easily ...

 

[Nevil]

The meat was in the MADC paper...which I can assume you didn't read?

Don't assume that GitT, I thought that it was interesting but hardly definative in support of your/ Chimera's position ( I keep getting you two mixed up for some reason ).
This paper seems to support Kanga's position (can't cut and paste pdf's).
http://www.bio.uaic.ro/publicatii/a.../papers/2007/2/2007_Anale_GBM_VIII_f2_l07.pdf
I can't find your paper anymore (could someone post it again?) but what I do see is that neither you nor Cimera can limit themselves to the topic without being nasty.

If all you saw was him slapping your ignorant dick riding fans in the face then you need to work on your reading comprehension.

Three insults in one sentence, excellent work. Is that to stop me responding to this?

The meat was his statistical certainty that drug cultivars arising from normal m/f matings are always 1:1 male to female.

To which I would reply, What is the percentage of matings that can be considered normal M/F and what role do intersex plants play and to restate my earlier question,
Is the MADC sequence found on intersex/ Hermaphrodite plants?
Now I know that you are at least a member of Chimera's fan club ( you'll notice that I avoid mentioning you and his dick) and that's OK, but if neither of you can be civil, I don't really care what you have to say. If this keeps up I'm going to ban you both, which would be a shame as I am interested in what you have to say when you stay on topic.
N.

 

[GreenintheThumb]

Don't assume that GitT, I thought that it was interesting but hardly definative in support of your/ Chimera's position ( I keep getting you two mixed up for some reason ).
This paper seems to support Kanga's position (can't cut and paste pdf's).
http://www.bio.uaic.ro/publicatii/a.../papers/2007/2/2007_Anale_GBM_VIII_f2_l07.pdf

Maybe you're confused because we have the same position. I'm the one who posted that article...which is about hemp. And lets face it there's no new research in the article; it's trying to sum up a bunch of antiquated experiments that happened in hemp cultivars in the 20s and 40s. If I wanted to make an article about CAT scans I wouldn't start with a chapter on phrenology.

What is the percentage of matings that can be considered normal M/F and what role do intersex plants play and to restate my earlier question,

Most matings in drug cultivars were normal m/f. Most "feminized" release are not.

Is the MADC sequence found on intersex/ Hermaphrodite plants?

Chimera said he found it on no intersex females.

Now I know that you are at least a member of Chimera's fan club

He's been the most educated person working in drug canabis I've been able to find. I respect him and his opinions on our favorite plant. If you would read what he shared in here and ignore the comments aimed at your fanbase (who are often much more aggressive than Chimera while having nothing of value to add to the discussion at hand) you'll probably end up doing the same thing.

 

[GreenintheThumb]

There's the meat right there...dismiss that so easily ...

Most growers want female plants. Autoflowering cultivars have been around since the 80s. I think Nevil released a few commercially. And now they're working with a company that is releasing feminized seeds. DISMISSED.

 

[hempy]

Most growers want female plants. Autoflowering cultivars have been around since the 80s. I think Nevil released a few commercially. And now they're working with a company that is releasing feminized seeds. DISMISSED.

Most people want good quality cannabis but that has not stopped many releasing poor quality cannabis has it and i don't think that many want fem seeds but if a given line is only available in fem seed they will get what they can.

As for the med strain and it being offered in feminized form along with regular seed did you ever stop to think that it is a project by a few people and company's and some must of felt a feminized version was a good idea to and if you support it or not working with other people you need to respect there opinions and vues and as shanti has not sed to much about this project i think its funny how you along with others think shanti is now releasing fem seed.

 

[JessE]

This thread is dead and it's dead because of rabid ignorant dick riders like you Jesse..

It would seem Ive struck quite a chord with the connection between yourself, Kopite aka Hoosier aka Brian aka goshite and Chimera. I thought you cats would like that. It would seem the pieces fall into place bit by bit, nice to know we're getting somewhere.

 

[englishrick]

hempy,,,in them quotes from icmag you mention something about me and a roast dinner ,,lol,,i was trying to understand jesses post and im sure someone is accusing me of being british hempire,,,is that what you believe nowadays hempy ?,,,,if you dont can you please tell jesse

 

[hempy]

hempy,,,in them quotes from icmag you mention something about me and a roast dinner ,,lol,,i was trying to understand jesses post and im sure someone is accusing me of being british hempire,,,is that what you believe nowadays hempy ?,,,,if you dont can you please tell jesse

hiya rick were ya been mate you been MIA on us don't tell me your been in them books again trying to prove fem seeds are better still.

What quote from icmag ? Post it up so i can read it along with your post so it makes sense.

I believe in lots of things rick one being regular seeds are the way forward and coke is better than Pepsi i also believe in god and in my fellow man but i also believe that 2 wrongs make no right i believe in women having a nurturing nature and i believe the sun rises and sets and i have more to shear if you are interested.

 

[JessE]

I believe Rick is referring to the original Stoner-Gate postings hempys, located on this page, where British Hempire aka indifferent aka free fields aka (?) was caught hiding behind different handles at Icmag. (located below)

http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/showthread.php?t=4311&page=87

That thread, as you know, was soon closed after BH was exposed, leading one to wonder what the Administration is hiding?

Its funny how many of the fem central/Stoner-gate crew can be traced back to Gypsy Nirvana and Icmag. Gypsy, as you all know, has used the elite clone hype as a means to market feminized seeds to people all over the world who were all hyped to acquire one of these "elite" clones, but were not able to acquire them. The answer? Feminize those elites, which are "so good", and then sell them to every Joe and Suzy Q who were lead to believe this shit was so good.

That explains why there are so many different OG Kushes, Bubba Kushes, Trainwrecks etc at the various clubs on the west coast.

 

[Nevil]

I'm having trouble with what seems to be contradictory positions. On the one hand we have the position that sex is genetically determined and will produce 1:1 ratios M + F and that they can be verified by the presence of the MADC sequence and on the other hand we have the position that the MADC in not involved in intersex plants and yet somehow matings will still produce 1:1 ratios M + F. It seems to me that you have undermined your argument by categorising intersex plants as females and cut off your escape route by saying that environmental factors don't influence sex.
What we are left with is a genetically determined mechanism for intersex traits which does not involve MADC for which you do not have a marker to determine it's presence.
What is your working model to account for intersex plants? Considering the main argument against fem seeds is the fear of ingraining intersex traits, the issue needs to be addressed. Calling a hermie intersex does not make it go away.
N.

 

[Chimera]

Wow, I'm really surprised. You are going to ban me for the use of a slightly tacky metaphor? Honestly Nevil, I'm quite shocked that you think I'm the one that has derailed this thread... um.. did you read the last 10 pages?
Regardless, if anyone was offended I sincerely apologize... I'm no interested in fighting with anyone, I'm only here to help educate. If you really don't wan my input here, I will gladly leave... my time is short and valuable, and others are interested in hearing what I have to say... so the choice is ultimately yours and Shanti's, Nevil... I respect both of your commendable work in the field over the past 30 years. Shanti even more so for how he handled his problems in Switzerland; however, if you don't want me to post on your forum I will respect your wishes.

As far as Gitt and Kopite go, I know neither of these posters other than having read some of their posts on the internet and a few friendly exchanges with both. Gitt can certainly be abrasive and curt but that's his style and there's nothing I can do about it.. nor do I wish to... but I don't see how it reflects upon me. In fact I've told him on a different site he should tone his message in a way that is more palatable and friendly, less confrontational. I can understand your perspective, but really am quite surprised you'd choose to ban me for it. I personally don't think JessE's abraisive, uninformative comments reflect upon you Nevil or Shanti... and so I disagree with Herbert in that sense... how can one be responsible for another's words on an open forum?

As far as the tacky metaphor, it wasn't intended as an insult... I actually have a hard time understanding how anyone with a post-elementary education could actually, truthfully, interpret it as an insult about the size of anyone's member. Sure it was 'weird' as someone claimed, but I think made the point..... It was intended to show that proof must come in the form of data, not unsupported, unsubstantiated claims. 70-80% could mean 4 of 5. 7 or 8 of 10, 14,15 or 16 of 20, or even 7649 of 10,000. Obviously these numbers would each have different statistical significances and some would weigh more as evidence than others.

To prove my point, grab a coin from your pocket. Flip it 10 times and write down the outcome of every flip, and then make a tally at the end. It would be useful if everyone reading this thread could post and write down how many times they drew heads, and how many times they drew tails...

The point is some will draw 5 of each, some will draw 9 heads and 1 tail, some will draw 7 tails and 3 heads. Overall, however, the more people participate in the experiment, the closer the average number of each heads and tails will approach 5 of each. Does this make the poster who draws 9 heads and 1 tail wrong, or insinuate he is doing some behaviour to affect the outcome? Is it because in one area there is more humidity that somehow 'catches' the edges of the coin, and (perhaps) makes the Queen's head more prominent in the outcome of heads vs tails? (I assume Aussie coins have an imprint of the Queen as the Canadian and other commonwealth countries do). Does the higher Nitrogen levels in the soil that surrounds the house somehow make more heads than tails, or tails than heads?

Of course not, the coin toss is the result of a random event.

Cannabis gender is inherited in the exact same manner.. it's essentially the meiotic flip of a coin... does the X or Y chromosome end up packaged into the paternal gamete (the cell that eventually becomes the pollen grain)... this random event- whether the X ends up in the pollen grain, or the Y does- is the sole factor in what ends up determining sex. If a Y containing pollen grain fertilized an X containing ovary (obviously, females are XX and are only able to contribute X's to gametes (sex cells like the human egg or sperm))- the individual is a male. If the pollen grain contains an X, the individual will be a female.

AFAIC concerned, this is not really open to debate. Published articles in extremely high impact journals (Genetics) confirm this fact. When I say not really.. I mean it would take significant hard evidence to change my mind.... which is why I asked any member who thinks they are getting more females than males to post their ACTUAL results. I have myself done this study over the years, and although sometimes I will get a higher number of females than males, and sometimes more males than females... statistically, over time, the average approaches 50% each males and females. Anything less, with all due respect, is just 'hearsay' speak, from an unknown entity, over the internet. If that suits anyone as evidence enough, that's completely their choice... but it certainly is not credible in context of the relatively large amount of scientific evidence, from multiple sources, to the contrary.

cont'd.....