Fem seeds and there impact on the future of the species known as cannabis.

[DarwinsBulldog]

Lol.....mate I knew that word science didnt look right when i wrote it......glad you understand, so hehe what have you got to tell me about the questions I ask......or does this need a BBQ

hehe i'll have to get back to you on it when i get around to using feminization in breeding mate until then i can only go off what i read and see

 

[Kangativa]

hehe i'll have to get back to you on it when i get around to using feminization in breeding mate until then i can only go off what i read and see

Ok mate......No first hand knowlege

So here is another question for the advocates of fem seeds, remember I am learning here, I want to buy some fem seeds, so who here that is for them can back their seeds to be 100% female.
Can I with no worries at all take 10 fem seeds out of a pack and put it with my MM and have no worries that those seeds will not hermie or do something I dont want......and I still want to hear first hand experiences

 

[Doobz]

I won some fem seeds from Big Buddha/GHS and was expecting them all to just produce fem plants.. Guess what??

There was a full blown male.. Not even a hermie.. Just a boy. I wanted to keep it but it never ever produced pollen.. I kept it nearly all summer

 

[Nevil]

Well, isn't that interesting Cytrax. Anyone got any theories on how this could happen?
N.

 

[DarwinsBulldog]

Ok mate......No first hand knowlege

So here is another question for the advocates of fem seeds, remember I am learning here, I want to buy some fem seeds, so who here that is for them can back their seeds to be 100% female.
Can I with no worries at all take 10 fem seeds out of a pack and put it with my MM and have no worries that those seeds will not hermie or do something I dont want......and I still want to hear first hand experiences

a mate gave me some white widow seeds from nirvana which were fem, they're pretty cheap for fem seeds from what i remember. i've grown out 3 of the seed myself and not a single one has ever showed a single male flower... i've flowered one of these girls now 3 times through and still no male flowers so i think they've done a pretty good job with this white widow. a friend has asked me to self the sativa dominant one i came across with STS in the future so i might give it a go and get back to you guys with the results

 

[Kangativa]

a mate gave me some white widow seeds from nirvana which were fem, they're pretty cheap for fem seeds from what i remember. i've grown out 3 of the seed myself and not a single one has ever showed a single male flower... i've flowered one of these girls now 3 times through and still no male flowers so i think they've done a pretty good job with this white widow. a friend has asked me to self the sativa dominant one i came across with STS in the future so i might give it a go and get back to you guys with the results

Ok pretty good job is ok...BUT would you put these seeds in a outdoor grow and be confident that they would under no circumstances do something you wouldnt like......hey mate I did say 10 seeds

 

[DarwinsBulldog]

Ok pretty good job is ok...BUT would you put these seeds in a outdoor grow and be confident that they would under no circumstances do something you wouldnt like......hey mate I did say 10 seeds

lol well i can't say under no circumstances that they wouldn't reverse, the only way to know that about any plant would be to examine the genetics to be sure it's 100% fem, those are incredibly rare from what i hear, but who knows, i've put out a bunch of these girls in my patch, so i've got confidence in them

 

[Kangativa]

lol well i can't say under no circumstances that they wouldn't reverse, the only way to know that about any plant would be to examine the genetics to be sure it's 100% fem, those are incredibly rare from what i hear, but who knows, i've put out a bunch of these girls in my patch, so i've got confidence in them

Hey mate I like honesty....good on ya !!

Not so rare with old strains.....even Thai's, ask the old Aussies who put the odd seed in out of a potent stick and got a hermie.
Damn I must be getting old coz I cant remember

 

[Doobz]

Well, isn't that interesting Cytrax. Anyone got any theories on how this could happen?
N.

I don't think I can explain how a "fem" plant could be 100% male. I can explain human error and how someone may have managed to package a male seed in the pack by accident.

But..

I think the most interesting thing was there was no pollen even though the male flowers had opened. Is this common even if it was an accidental male seed in a fem pack? I don't know and wont pretend to know why a male plant doesn't produce pollen! Could this be because it came from a plant that was created to produce fem seeds and some how it has changed the male gene/whatever its called?.. Can anyone enlighten me and anyone else who doesn't know what this means?

I have some other pictures but need to find them.

I remember I emailed Big Buddha and he wasn't, or didn't seem surprised at my situation and just sent me out another pack of seeds..

I hope I am staying on track here.. Sometimes I am known to go on a bit of a tangent and loose things.. like my mind..

Stay Cool,
Doobz

 

[Nevil]

No it's not stray pollen Cytrax, it's the result of feminisation. If this was the worst that could happen, I'd say it would be acceptable, from a certain perspective. It didn't ruin your crop. My gut is telling me it's a female, a would be if she could be. It's evidence of some thing.
Nows the time for everybody to be clever.
N.

 

[englishrick]

ESS

please could you rephraze your questions to me,,,i have no problems answering all you questions,,i just need you to rephraze them if poss?

do you think i avoided GreenInTheThumbs question by just telling him Chimera has done the YY genotype?,,,i dont think so Green knows chimera very well,,,it was a question i didnt need to answer as chimera is the 1 whos actualy done the work,,an know the way to explain it



hay nev,,,ive grown loads and loads of fems,,,i work in a seed shop in the uk from time to time,,an ive helpd countless people make there own smoke

the weirdest thing that ever happend to me with fem seeds was this;,,,i had a SSH x OGKA [fem] a friend of mine made,,,i decided to pop just 1 seed from that batch ...i cloned the veging plant and put this 1 "femminized" clone into flower with my other cheese clones at a friends house,,,,3 weeks later i visited my friends grow to see the SSH x OGKA gowing like a fullon 100% MALE,,,i shat myself,,,,,,i ripped the "male" out instantly!!......but i kept a clone of it in veg at my house

6 months later i decided to grow this feminized clone again to do a test cross,,,,,guess what,,,,this MALE feminized plant grew 100% FEMALE this time,,,,,,i was scratching my head,,,baffeld!!,,,it was a massive yealder too,,,without any intersexed traits to showfor,,,i was totaly baffeld

this is why im so adiment that cannabis works on an X/autosome dosage system and not an active Y,,,its from my personal experence,,,,

 

[Nevil]

Well that's very interesting too Rick, it's more evidence. I'd like to hear what Chimera thinks.
If someone has done the work you should consider his opinion.
Did your Male/Female produce pollen?
N.

 

[gobshite]

@ Rick..

you state you are adament that its X:A but to me it isn't especially since they have markers specifically for males as pointed out in others posts previously.. perhaps that plant you had wasn't all you thought it was in the 1st place?

Sex chromosomes do not appear suddenly in animals or plants. rather, it is the pair of autosomes bearing the sex determination genes that have evolved specialized features, i.e., the degeneration of the Y chromosome, resulting in heteromorphy that became the hallmark of sex chromosomes. Two major sex chromosome systems have evolved. One is the active Y chromosome system, or the XY system (or ZW in a heterogametic female system), in which females have two of the same kind of sex chromosome (XX), while males have two distinct sex chromosomes (XY). The other is the X-to-autosome (A) balance system, in which the ratio of X:A chromosomes determines sex by an X chromosome counting system and the Y chromosome is dispensable.....

 

[englishrick]

hay nev,,,mine wanted to,,,but i pulled it out too quick,,then the clone i had of it turned males after months as a cutting,,,,,but a friend of mine [coctailfrank] also had some seeds from this same batch an he also found a male...he used his to male a seeline he called "bigpinkpole",,,guess what,,,it made M/F seeds,,,thats why i wanted to do the testcross with mine,,,unfortunatly mine fliped to being 100% females,,,it was like maturity caused it to turn female,,,,very weird stuff,,,you should heard me when i saw this sh1t,,,i needed to understand what just happend to me,,,thats why i started reading all this stuff,,an thats why im here now

yeh,,im sure chimera has done the YY genotype thing,,sucsessfully,,,im sure he mentiond it along time ago in a similar thread to this over at icmag,,,,so if its cool with everyone il hold back on answering untill chimera chimes in about it,,if thats cool??




gob bro,,,,are you talking about the male markers in thsi paper??

"Sex-linked AFLP markers indicate a pseudoautosomal region in hemp (Cannabis sativa L.)"???

 

[gobshite]

ESS

please could you rephraze your questions to me,,,i have no problems answering all you questions,,i just need you to rephraze them if poss?

do you think i avoided GreenInTheThumbs question by just telling him Chimera has done the YY genotype?,,,i dont think so Green knows chimera very well,,,it was a question i didnt need to answer as chimera is the 1 whos actualy done the work,,an know the way to explain it



hay nev,,,ive grown loads and loads of fems,,,i work in a seed shop in the uk from time to time,,an ive helpd countless people make there own smoke

the weirdest thing that ever happend to me with fem seeds was this;,,,i had a SSH x OGKA [fem] a friend of mine made,,,i decided to pop just 1 seed from that batch ...i cloned the veging plant and put this 1 "femminized" clone into flower with my other cheese clones at a friends house,,,,3 weeks later i visited my friends grow to see the SSH x OGKA gowing like a fullon 100% MALE,,,i shat myself,,,,,,i ripped the "male" out instantly!!......but i kept a clone of it in veg at my house

6 months later i decided to grow this feminized clone again to do a test cross,,,,,guess what,,,,this MALE feminized plant grew 100% FEMALE this time,,,,,,i was scratching my head,,,baffeld!!,,,it was a massive yealder too,,,without any intersexed traits to showfor,,,i was totaly baffeld

this is why im so adiment that cannabis works on an X/autosome dosage system and not an active Y,,,its from my personal experence,,,,

I remember in the thread Chim stated he had been reversing the males for about 5 years I don't recall him stating how viable the YYs where...Suzycremecheese asked .. but i can't recall a reply ?

(is it ok to link threads here?)

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=133853
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=99597

 

[englishrick]

i cant edit my post so il put the edit into bold,,,sorry for doubble posting guys

hay nev,,,mine wanted to,,,but i pulled it out too quick,,then the clone i had of it turned FEMALE after months as a cutting,,,,,but a friend of mine [coctailfrank] also had some seeds from this same batch an he also found a male...he used his to male a seeline he called "bigpinkpole",,,guess what,,,it made M/F seeds,,,thats why i wanted to do the testcross with mine,,,unfortunatly mine fliped to being 100% females,,,it was like maturity caused it to turn female,,,,very weird stuff,,,you should heard me when i saw this sh1t,,,i needed to understand what just happend to me,,,thats why i started reading all this stuff,,an thats why im here now

 

[englishrick]

im sure chimera said he has been making YY males for years,,,

 

[gobshite]

i cant edit my post so il put the edit into bold,,,sorry for doubble posting guys

hay nev,,,mine wanted to,,,but i pulled it out too quick,,then the clone i had of it turned FEMALE after months as a cutting,,,,,but a friend of mine [coctailfrank] also had some seeds from this same batch an he also found a male...he used his to male a seeline he called "bigpinkpole",,,guess what,,,it made M/F seeds,,,thats why i wanted to do the testcross with mine,,,unfortunatly mine fliped to being 100% females,,,it was like maturity caused it to turn female,,,,very weird stuff,,,you should heard me when i saw this sh1t,,,i needed to understand what just happend to me,,,thats why i started reading all this stuff,,an thats why im here now

They don't "flip" genetically they are what they were.

and on the YY note.. Chimera stated "I've already created a couple of all male seedlines from the process..." so there we go were they maintained from XYxYY ? which would be like Nev (I think suggested in another thread) for doing fems XX(non reversable) x XX ((or XXY etc) reversable)...(though I have never had a non reversable plant only sterile ones)

Edit: sorry read the lines to be maintained are XY not YY - "which was my only goal- to create male selfs and male:male seeds for use in breeding/research- ie towards the development of pure XY lines. The above mentionned regimen is sufficient to that end"

From memory in other species aren't YYs from ploids?

 

[englishrick]

flowering in itself is a morph,,,,,,i think this was a morph too

 

[kylebroflovski]

More appropriately they are mediocre DUE TO their homozygosity... I would hypothesize this is what you are seeing in the heirloom Broccolli.

Outcrossing species like cannabis and humans (obligate outcrossers) don't do well over generations in tight mating schemes that increase homozygosity- the proof is seen in multiple Royal families - inbreeding and negative traits being fixed into their genome leads to serious genetic problems because inbreeding inevitably leads to fixing of negative traits in the homozygous condition.

Outcrossing species are not able to shed their 'genetic load'.. the deleterious alleles that every single one of us, and every single cannabis plants carry. Try selfing ANY cannabis plant for multiple generations, and just watch the vigour decline progressively through the generations.

Self pollinating species like Tomato have been able to purge their genetic load throughout the ages, leaving their populations free of deleterious alleles. Outcrossing species aren't able to do this, and the negative recessives persist in the homozygous state masked by their homologous counterparts. Only in tight mating schemes (selfing being the tightest, 1:1 matings being only second worse) over generations fixes these alleles and leads to significant loss of vigour.

I'll be back in a couple of days to deal with some previous stuff.... Darwin that Hirata article is from 1927 and I don't think we can really trust it as far as today's standards as evidence.... it wouldn't be published today by any journal of valu IMO. Perhaps next time you are at the library you could look a copy up and post it... your library should have back issues of Genetics- it's a high impact journal and most educational libraries have it in the stacks.

-Chimera

PS_ Kyle I would be happy to discuss my lines with you elsewhere... let's please keep this topic on track and not divert the attention away from the topic... I find it disrespectful to Shanti, Nevil et al to post about my lines here in their forum and besides it's not the topic at hand... I'm not here to spam I'm here to help educate.

WOW!,

I'am impressed by your assessment of inbreeding as an unnatural state in cannabis. I definitely agree with you. All too often this is exacerbated by an uneducated (like myself) gardener who attempts to desperatley keep something alive and he's down to one male from the 8 h or 9th year of growing it annually outside. It is already gone buddy.

I enjoy how you explained the undesirable recessives and the negative alleles just add up over time. Hopefully this does not fall on deaf ears. This is exactly why alot of those old timers lose the characteristics of the varieties they are working with as has been evidenced over the past 20 years. I'm tired of people saying they had genetic drift or a virus which took their variety from them. YOU were the cause not the environment, YOU did this to "YOUR" strain.

Now as far as staying on track goes, well you are correct about that as well. I was one of the first kids in my school they attempted to sedate with Ritalin, I apparently still suffer from the disease. 8/

I'm glad your not here to promote yourself, it seems like a few may be. These people get under my skin and I like to do anti-advertising against them (that was the true intent of my mention of the c-plus). It was my attempt at "drawing you out," and taking a peek at your character. It does appear that perhaps you are here to share your ideas in much the same way as Nev and SB do, honestly. Sorry about busting your chops, but I will do it again if I sense you are stepping over to the dark side.

It looks as though science and reason is starting to take over finally. I look forward to how this thread develops, and how other points of view from this century (couldn't resist Darwin, sorry ) effect the discussion. Really like how the people who have a true understsanding of their science can explain it in simple terms for dumbasses like meself and the other "closet breeders."

Later,
KB 8)_~