Fem seeds and there impact on the future of the species known as cannabis.

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Rick it is my humble opinon that this topic right across the boards is full of posts by people supporting this fem seed interprise yet the argument to go aginst nature and the natreal order of things is well not standing up.

The fact is rick like it or not a male is XY and a female is XX and a hermi is XXY.

You can dress a guy in a dress and make him look all girly but the reality is between his legs his all male.

What is not spoken about is the fact some females can express male traits and from what is that coused by rick well basicly stress and it couses a hermone made by the plant to then produce male parts now how much do you or any know about this very little.

What we do know is that once this happens it will carrie it into the next generation and can become worse now to try and correct this what do we use rick thats right a male why is that rick.

They are useing chemicals or even hormones found in nature to treat a female to turn it into a male now that has to be a strees factor on the female like it or not rick and just like a female produceing her own hormones to grow male parts it has to carrie it into the next generation.

Is this a positive no chance you guys act like you have all the answears but you dont all your doing is pulling research papper after research papper from google from any surce you can find relevent or not and hopeing you strike a quote that may back your belif.

The reality is rick a males The Y chromosome contains several significant genes:

•SRY (sex-determining region Y gene; causes maleness via testosterone),
•sperm fertility,
•Y-influenced growth control,
•chromodomain proteins,
•short stature.
•other significant, mutant genes associated with disease, e.g., colorblindness



Y chromosomal profiling can trace back paternal lineages into the past and has thus been proven a useful tool in genealogical and kinship testing. The individuality of the male-specific part of the Y chromosome can be optimally explored by the Y-STR haplotype analysis using a set of highly variable short tandem repeat markers approved by the forensic and scientific community.

Are you so blind in your belif rick to not even see the importance of a real male in the species of cannabis.
 
[if an XXy indervidual willnot display intersexed traits] what do we call it?
Click to expand...
A latent homosexual, closet Queen.
Just kidding.

If it is not showing intersex traits, how do you know that it is XXy?

It's my opinion that hermaphroditism is the cannabis plants survival response to the practice of sinsemilla culture. Stress factors seem to induce the response, indicating that it is purely a survival mechanism to allow the plants to reproduce when an event occurs that may interrupt the synchronised flowering of both males and females.

Like nature, I consider that selfing is a useful tool as a response to unusual circumstances, but as a long term breeding strategy, it is inferior to the use of males.

In the legally approved (low THC) French hemp varieties, hermaphroditism is considered a useful trait, with populations approaching 100% herm. I suggest researching the Hemp breeding literature to find out more about this trait.
N.
 
hi all

nice discussion, very scientific !

first of all a few remarks:


@hempy : you explain the sex determinism for cannabis with XY XX and XXY as if it was a simple a well know fact, I'm not sure about that, the various scientific articles neither.

SRY (sex-determining region Y gene; causes maleness via testosterone),
•sperm fertility,
•Y-influenced growth control,
•chromodomain proteins,
•short stature.
•other significant, mutant genes associated with disease, e.g., colorblindness
Click to expand...

do not mix up animal and vegetal genetics, it is not at all the same especially at the molecular level. Y chrom is hemp is bigger than X chrom, it is exactly the oposite in mammals therefore it is not at all the same evolutionary mechanism that has lead to heterochromosoms in plant and animals. The traits that you describe are for mammals.


@nevil

In the legally approved (low THC) French hemp varieties, hermaphroditism is considered a useful trait, with populations approaching 100% herm. I suggest researching the Hemp breeding literature to find out more about this trait.
Click to expand...

In fact, breeding techniques for hemp favorise dioique cultivars and not monoique (or hermi) cultivars for two reason :

not as good growers

"The disadvantages of monoecious hemp are essentially lower vigour and poorer fibre quantity, along with a slower improvement attainable by breeding"

Bócsa, I. & M. Karus, 1998. The Cultivation of Hemp. Botany, Varieties, Cultivation and Harvesting. Chapter 4 ‘The breeding of hemp varieties’, pp. 47–71. Hemptech, Sebastopol



hybrid production is impossible because of self polination and more difficult to improve

"the main disadvantages in the use of monoecious hemp essentially lie in the occurrence of self-pollination, causing a lower stem yield, and in the slower rate of genetic progress attainable compared to dioecious hemp"

Bocsa I (1994) Interview. In: Journal of the International Hemp Association, vol.1, no.2, pp 61-63

I have been reading some infos, this quote is very interesting, it's a bit long but very informative for whom is interested.

"The structure of sex chromosomes has been studied in S. latifolia by Westergaard (1953). He showed that the X and Y carry a homologous segment comparable with the pseudoautosomal region (PAR) of mammals (Burgoyne 1982; Rappold 1993). Genetically, two genes M and F are responsible for the sex expression; MF/mf plants are male, mf/mf plants female. No recombination could be observed between the two loci. M is the male determining factor, F the female-suppressing factor, both located in a dominant condition on the Y. But male as well as female plants need at least one X chromosome, since from the anther culture of male plants only haploid female plants with an X, but no male plants carrying a Y, could be developed (Guttmann and Charlesworth 1998). This situation is quite different from A. officinalis. In this species, sex determination occurs very late and Asparagus shows no cytological dimorphism. The sex is controlled by an XY mechanism located on chromosome 5 (L_ptien 1979) with XY as males, but in some cases pistillate organs appear on XY plants allowing them to generate viable YY male progeny (Longo 1994). Antcliff (1980) postulated three alleles, M, H and F, at a single locus for sex determination in Vitis with M dominant over H and F, and H dominant over F. Male types are either MH or MF, hermaphrodite types HH or HF and females FF. A locus controlling sex in Vitis was mapped by Dalb_ et al. (2000) on linkage group 14 in a cross between the hermaphrodite cultivar ‘Horizon’ and Illinois 547-1, a genotype highly resistant to several fungal diseases, but forming only male flowers. "

Peil, A., Flachowsky, H., Schumann, E., and Weber, W.E. 2003. Sex-linked AFLP markers indicate a pseudoautosomal region in hemp (Cannabis sativa) L. Theor. Appl. Genet. 107: 102–109.


In my opinion, simple male / female sex determination is genetic. However, as soon as we approach the issue of intersex, this is complicated because it is a multifunctional mechanism:
- it is very probable that it is a polyallelique trait (many regulatory genes needed in the process of sexual organ development)
- These alleles are distributed in the autosomes and heterosomes
- Their activation is subject to environmental conditions
Moreover, current techniques inbreeding and loss of heterosis in populations are not foreign to the frequency of the phenomena of intersex. This can be explained by the fact that major loci controlling sex determinism are dominant for male or female. Recessive alleles give intersex phenotypes.


bonbolos
 
bonbolos said:
hi all

nice discussion, very scientific !

first of all a few remarks:

In my opinion, simple male / female sex determination is genetic. However, as soon as we approach the issue of intersex, this is complicated because it is a multifunctional mechanism:
- it is very probable that it is a polyallelique trait (many regulatory genes needed in the process of sexual organ development)
- These alleles are distributed in the autosomes and heterosomes
- Their activation is subject to environmental conditions
Moreover, current techniques inbreeding and loss of heterosis in populations are not foreign to the frequency of the phenomena of intersex. This can be explained by the fact that major loci controlling sex determinism are dominant for male or female. Recessive alleles give intersex phenotypes.


bonbolos
Click to expand...

Sweet man this is very clear.. I like what your saying there.:)
 
Which brings us back to the different H types and how they are inherited. Few wanted to get involved in that discussion.

I once selfed Haze male C. This was a true male. Mendelian theory dictates that:
XY x XY will give you 25% XX 50% XY and 25%YY
XX x YY should give you 100% males. None of the selfed HzC males did this, I tested.
I did get a 2 to 1 ratio of male to female offspring from selfed HzC seeds. My preliminary conclusion was that
YY was not viable.
N.
PS The Patented French Hemp is H. The fiber yield was supposed to be better because of it.
 
Last edited:
bonbolos said:
hi all

nice discussion, very scientific !

first of all a few remarks:


@hempy : you explain the sex determinism for cannabis with XY XX and XXY as if it was a simple a well know fact, I'm not sure about that, the various scientific articles neither.



do not mix up animal and vegetal genetics, it is not at all the same especially at the molecular level. Y chrom is hemp is bigger than X chrom, it is exactly the oposite in mammals therefore it is not at all the same evolutionary mechanism that has lead to heterochromosoms in plant and animals. The traits that you describe are for mammals.
Click to expand...


Do all living things have the same types of chromosomes?

Chromosomes vary in number and shape among living things. Most bacteria have one or two circular chromosomes. Humans, along with other animals and plants, have linear chromosomes that are arranged in pairs within the nucleus of the cell.

How many chromosomes do humans have?

Humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes, for a total of 46 chromosomes.

In fact, each species of plants and animals has a set number of chromosomes. A fruit fly, for example, has four pairs of chromosomes, while a rice plant has 12 and a dog, 39.

How are chromosomes inherited?

In humans and most other complex organisms, one copy of each chromosome is inherited from the female parent and the other from the male parent.

Do males have different chromosomes than females?

Yes, they differ in a pair of chromosomes known as the sex chromosomes. Females have two X chromosomes in their cells, while males have one X and one Y chromosome.

Any of the organized components of each cell which carry the individual's hereditary material, deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA). Chromosomes are found in all organisms with a cell nucleus (eukaryotes) and are located within the nucleus. Each chromosome contains a single extremely long DNA molecule that is packaged by various proteins into a compact domain. A full set, or complement, of chromosomes is carried by each sperm or ovum in animals and each pollen grain or ovule in plants. This constitutes the haploid (n) genome of that organism and contains a complete set of the genes characteristic of that organism. Sexually reproducing organisms in both the plant and animal kingdoms begin their development by the fusion of two haploid germ cells and are thus diploid (2n), with two sets of chromosomes in each body cell. These two sets of chromosomes carry virtually all the thousands of genes of each cell, with the exception of the tiny number in the mitochrondria (in animal), and a few plant chloroplasts. See also Deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA); Gene[/B].
 
englishrick said:
the word "Recessive" implyes a system of dominance,,imo its defo the right word to use when discribing sex in cannabis
Click to expand...

RECESSIVE GENE


Recessive is the name of a gene in genetics. It is a gene that does not convey its commands when paired with a central gene. It is an allele that is expressed only when available in the homozygous or hemizygous condition. The phenotypic expression of a recessive gene is masked by a dominant allele. It produces its affect only in a situation where both copies present
are identical. A recessive gene attribute will be passed on to offspring's with only a 1 in 4 chance. In genetics these genes are indicate with lower case letters.

Technically, the expression "recessive gene" is imprecise coz it is not the gene that is recessive but the phenotype (or trait). Recessive genetic disorder takes place only when both parents are carriers and each contributes an allele to the embryo. Thus there must be two copies of the allele.


Use google rick.
 
The Y chromosome contains several significant genes:

•SRY (sex-determining region Y gene; causes maleness via testosterone),
•sperm fertility,
•Y-influenced growth control,
•chromodomain proteins,
•short stature.
•other significant, mutant genes associated with disease, e.g., colorblindness



Y chromosomal profiling can trace back paternal lineages into the past and has thus been proven a useful tool in genealogical and kinship testing. The individuality of the male-specific part of the Y chromosome can be optimally explored by the Y-STR haplotype analysis using a set of highly variable short tandem repeat markers approved by the forensic and scientific community.


It sed it there if you in fact read it that is why the loss of vigor was seen the Y-chromosome Y-influenced growth controlno male and you dont have influenced growth control.

Y chromosomal profiling can trace back paternal lineages now why is it that they cant do that test in the X-chromosomal are you guys that blind to not see this.
 
Hempy- Rick it is my humble opinon that this topic right across the boards is full of posts by people supporting this fem seed interprise yet the argument to go aginst nature and the natreal order of things is well not standing up.

Amen!!!

Is it a coincidence that much oF this negative energy appeared shortly after word got out about the return of Nevil? I think there is definitely a camp of people who seem to be very scared about their futures in the pollen chucking business, and maybe other industries as well.

Stoner-Gate is reality!!! Look through this thread. 8(

"Feminized" seeds do NOT exist!!!! Intersexed seeds do.

Hermie/intersexed/gynoecious what the f ever is a condition that usually appears as a result of stress. I personally would not pay double for a seed produced under stressful conditions.
 
I just got to say this at some point.

If a man, or a group of men were trying to corner the cannabis genetics market, What would be the best way to make sure that the existing gene pool dried up?
Now you might say, what miserable low life piece of shit would have plans like that? I know, I can hardly get my head around it either, but these are not my fantasy's and they do exist.
N.
 
The following note should be read with sarcastic glasses.

Now that is just ridiculous.

Sounds like a CONSPIRACY! EVERYBODY knows conspiracies are what paranoid people come up with to explain what they do not understand. Just saying the word should have you psychiatrically evaluated.

Why would a couple of guys/industry leaders get together and talk about ways to create a monopoly which would profit them hundreds of billions of dollars. Surely they have better things to do then discussing plans (conspiring) about how to make this incredible fotrune.

Thats absurd!

(end sarcastic font here)

Man-kind relies on nature in it's natural state.

Stoner-Gate Deuchebags Where is your accountability?
 
Nevil said:
I just got to say this at some point.

If a man, or a group of men were trying to corner the cannabis genetics market, What would be the best way to make sure that the existing gene pool dried up?
Now you might say, what miserable low life piece of shit would have plans like that? I know, I can hardly get my head around it either, but these are not my fantasy's and they do exist.
N.
Click to expand...

Hiya neville you tuched on a very intresting point and one i brang up at a diffrent site and no suprised got shot to peaces for.

First step to control something like cannabis would be to control the production of seed and and to do it with out males you cant produce healthy seed you can only make fem seed.

They can make seed by revursing a female but for how many generations can this be done before the drama starts with out the male to purge the negitive mutations deal with enviromental changes and allow healthy mutations threw how long will it be before the genetic pool turns to complet shit.

Thort people would of relised the importence of males in breeding by reading shantis posts threw the past years alone.

They are trying to patern genetics now they are also for the most part offering only fem seeds now and only offer fem seeds were once they only offerd regula seed and not that many offer regula seed any more and this has all come about in a very short time frame to 6 years i belive.
 
like ive said in the past and il say it again,,,

i dont agree with selling Feminized seeds to the public!!!,,,,but what i do agree with is using feminized seed for breeding puposess,,,,
 
I agree with you Rick. It's a tool and it's a useful one, if you know what you are doing. I should have used it on G13 before it had had enough.
N.
 
i agree with you nev,,,,that G13 should have been tested to the max,,,,did it get a virus or something?,,,why did it die out,,,,its something ive been meaning to ask you?

yeh,,,,selfing and feminization,,,,its a tool!!,,,used for a few things not everything,,,,1 thing it shouldnt be used for is increesing seedsales alone,,,,yes,,the impact of selling only feminized seeds is a negative 1,,,but what about selling M/F seeds worked with fem tech?...that souldnt be a problem and thats what im talking about

i dont want to see the cannabis seed industry homgonized,,,i love the divercity!!

the fem breeding and seedsale that have been happening in this "the present time" is discracefull,,but lets think about the future,,,,,plants showing unwanted intersexed traits in comon niche enviroments,,,i mean its just bloody shoddy work, ,,,
 
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