DJ Short's Class

[jaybutta]

On Nirvana

Good to hear from you Jay,
The DJ Short Blueberry and True Blueberry sales of today obviously owe credence to the success Blueberry received in the '90s. However rarely does one hear about Dutch Passion and Sagarmatha's role in the development of the line, which was instrumental in the strains success, facts which many who are so passionate about the Blueberry line would find of interest when considering their options in the blue family.

The original hype on the forums was Nirvana Blueberry. A variety which was available cheaply, $15, and which was marketed heavily by the powers that be at Overgrow.com many years ago. It was the first hype to get real push, next came Trainwreck, OG and Bubba Kush etc. Its these three companies who originally offered Blueberry, in the case of Nirvana perhaps on a grand scale, that helped cement the blueberry legend. I believe its a mistake to assume DJ's version is the superior version, as that would seem to indicate its the original version which enjoyed so much success. Because as we've seen its a little more complicated than what initially meets the eye.

You are talking before my time, JessE...as I told DJ, when I first came on the scene (1998?) I read about how Sagarmatha had stolen Blueberry from DJ Short...I never read it from him...as a matter of fact, I don't remember where I read that, but DJ confirmed his fallout with Sagarmatha...I remember that specifically because I was interested in Blueberry...I was looking at their Blue Thunder and Bubbleberry at the time, but I thought they were way overpriced and I did not want to purchase anything "stolen"...his involvement with Dutch Passion is a little more well-known...one story you may not know, which DJ shared with me, was the tale of the 2000 Cannabis Cup...as you may or may not know, today DJ feels the same about the Cup as Shanti does...it is no longer a reputable competition...I found that amusing that two of the best breeder's on the planet, on opposite sides of the globe, both feel the same way about the same "competition"...anyway, as the story goes, the Blueberry which won the 2000 Cannabis Cup was not originally meant to be entered into that Cup...originally, according to DJ Short, that Blueberry was grown for the 1999 Cannabis Cup, but missed the deadline when it was announced that the judges needed the entries 6 weeks prior to when the harvest was going to be ready...when Henk from Dutch Passion asked DJ what he should do with the bud, DJ told him to store it and cure it for a year, then enter it into the following Cup...little did anyone know in 2000, but no one else stood a chance against Blueberry with a full year's cure under her belt...that must have been some incredible bud...DJ is all about curing, as you will read in my notes...with respect to Nirvana's BB, from what I know of them they have always been "hacks", for lack of a better term...I know of their Blue Mystic, but not of their Blueberry...if I were to guess off the top of my head, I would say they got access to the genetics when Sagarmatha started making them available, but that's only my guess...I would be happy to ask DJ about it and see what he has to say...my thoughts on the matter are rather clear, however...DJ is perfectly capable of discussing Blueberry in all it's glory, and is able to reproduce and improve the line at his own discretion...his truth is real and palpable, and he cares for and loves his strains...you can honestly tell that they are his creations, his ideas, his thoughts on the way herb should be...I would never expect a strain the class of Blueberry to be a creation from a company like Nirvana, no disrespect intended...they are known for pumping out other people's strains...I think the main problem here is that DJ basically worked the line to the point where his work could be ripped off...he takes his blue lines all the way to f5 stage, so you could say his offering was basically a Blueberry IBL, which we all know can be easily duplicated...Nirvana would have very little work to do if they wanted to claim the strain...hype creates the market...Sagarmatha was charging an arm and a leg...I could see why Nirvana wanted the credit, but I do believe they were much more interested in the $...the DireStraits come to mind: "Money for nothing and your chicks for free"...that's my take on it...thanks for the input...jay

 

[jaybutta]

Syllabus : Section 4

4. The Quality of Cannabis

A. What Is Good Herb? Overview.​

*Does What It Is Meant To Do, Consistency of Effect
Over Time and Population
+Onset; Fast or Slow
+Duration; Long or Short
+Tolerance Threshold
+Ceiling, How Much?
+Shelf-Life, Packaging, Curing
+"The Warm & Fuzzy Hug From Within" (Abraxis Hugsley)​

B. Overall Desirability, Quality, Comfort, Character​

*Similarities to Wine/Spirits Industry
+"The Kind"
*Truly Good Herb causes most who experience it to
feel better---over time and use.
*Issues of Personal Preference
+Example: Substitute for Opiate Medications, etc.​

C. Potency; A Double-Edged Sword​

*Bland Potency is Easy to Replicate
+First Goal/Reward of the Novice Grower is Potency
+Similarities to Wine Spirits Industry
+Personal Preference
+Negative Characteristics of Bland Potency;
Tolerance, Low Ceiling, Shelf-Life, etc.
*THC Percentages
+Basic Potency
--THC = Most Noticeable, Perceived Effects
--Other cannabinoids have more subtle, yet
potentially powerful effects
+Cannabinoid Ratios Influence 'Character'
*"Bag Appeal", Visual, Flavor/Odor, Tackiness
+Holdover Term From Street-Dealer Days
+Indicative of Potency but not necessarily 'Character'
+Desired by Resellers
*Titration = Dosage Regulation--Standardization​

D. 'The Best Truly Good Herb Worldwide'​

*'Old-School' Preference
+Highland Oaxaca, Thai, Colombian
+Highland Tropical Sativa---between 23 degrees N/S
+Side Note; THC% of Legendary Herb = 7%
+Notable Differences:
--Clarity, Comfort, Social, Uplifting, Focus
--The Ultimate Herbal Experience
--Landrace Varieties Hand Selected For Generations
+Seeded Herb vs. Seedless 'Sensimilla'
--Hermaphrodites and Landrace Tropical Herb
+Boutique vs. Mass Commercial Production
--Similarities to Wine/Spirits Industry​

E. Hashish!​

*North of 23 Degrees North---Glandular Stalked
Trichome Bred For Hashish Production
+Dry Sieve & Ice Water Extraction
--Afghanistan, Pakistan, Lebanon, Morocco, etc.
--'100 Meter Hash'
*Tropical Herb Has More Secretory Hairs
+Resins, Oils, Cannabinoid Distributed Over Leaf Surface
+Hand Rubbed Primary Extraction
--Nepal Stories; Rubbed Live, Timed, 3 yr. Old Plants up to 25'x25' Each
--Kashmir
--India
*Domestic Production
+'A' Grade Potential
+Side Note; Certain experts from hashish production regions would
mock our consumption of 'unprocessed' herb
*Temperate and Resin State
*Extraction Methods​

F. Other Extracts, Tinctures, Essential Oils, Distillates,
Fractional Isolation and Edibles​

*Review of Methods
+Alcohol, Glycerin, Solvent
+Distillation
+Steam
+Fractional Isolation
--Complex Method
--Simple Method
+Critical Fluid Extraction
*Cooking/Edibles
+THC Bond With Oils & Fats
--Medicine More Efficiently Metabolized
--Greatest Effect/Value of Herb as Medicine
+Extraction Process:
--Par Boil With Oil, Strain/Sieve, Squeeze & Rinse
With Boiling Water, Cool, Separate, Cold Rinse
+Titration​

 

[jaybutta]

Syllabus : Section 5

5. Selection Techniques & Breeding

A. Luther Burbank's Law​

*"Select The Best And Reject All Others"​

B. DJ's Law​

*"The Progeny Must Equal Or Surpass It's Parents In
Overall Quality and Desirability To Be Considered
For Further Breeding"
+f1 Exceptions​

C. The Process​

*'Top-Down' Design, 'Back-building'
*P1's of Pure Landrace Varieties
+Highland Oaxaca & Thai, Afghan Indica
*Uniform f1's Crossed to make Diverse f2's & Beyond
*Transgressive Segregation
*Selection For Traits and Desirable Characteristics
+Desirable Characteristics 'Hardened' Via Further Breeding
*Note; Herb is best judged primarily by it's finished product after
proper flush, harvest time, and curing. All other aspects including
structural, growth characteristics, aroma/flavor, color, etc. are
secondary considerations.
+Duly noted however, possible future influences
*Importance of Keeping Detailed Notes, Annotations
*Note: The only legitimate structural characteristic is
'tackiness'---adhesion, stickiness. To some extent, flavor/aroma
and resin production (also resin type) are significant. Tackiness,
flavor and resin usually indicate potency.
+Other Considerations = Production(Mass/Weight), Flowering and
Harvest Time, Calyx to Leaf Ratio, Color, Ease of Manicure, etc.
*Selection of Female Candidates is Relatively Easy
*Selection of Males is the Tricky Part. How To Select Males:
+Grow out the seed and test the quality/desirability of the finished product.
--Test (Smoke) the Males
+Check For Tackiness & Resin Production
+Flavor/Aroma
--Stem Rub Method
+Stem Structure---hollow stems generally produce more desirable
medical cannabis
+Ease of Cloning & Maintenance of a 'Father' Plant
--Males tend to succumb to cessation after reproduction
--Very difficult to keep alive
--Combination of dialing in nutrients (mainly nitrogen) and light timing
+Note: Avoid the constant-on (24/7) light cycle, especially for breeding purposes
--Exceptions = auto-flowering plants, some re-green projects​

D. Phenotype & Genotype​

*Phenotype = Environmental Influences
+Example: Purpling/Coloration
+Coaxed---"Dialing In" the Correct Environment is Key
+Once Found, Quality & Quantity May Increase
*Genotype = Genetic Makeup​

E. Tips For Successfully Producing Certain Strains​

*Nutrient 'Nute' Sensitivity
+Gradually Boosted to Higher PPM Over Time
+Clone Generations
+'Dialing-In'
*In A Ten Pack of Seeds:
+Eight Guaranteed To Sprout
+Four Female (Four Male) Average
+Two 'Keepers' Each of Female/Male, Exceptional Quality
+Clone Mothers or Re-Green to Mass Produce
*Production Tips:
+Organic Soil Outdoors Preferred
+Deep Water Culture
+Aeroponics---'Guppieponics'
+Rejuvenate Mothers Outdoors
--Out Late Spring, Take Fresh Cuts July/August
+'Dialing-In'
+Illuminated Magnifier = Important Tool
+'KISS'​

 

[jaybutta]

Syllabus : Extra

Extra: Aromatherapy, 'Vibrational Medicine' and Olfaction

+Powers of Olfaction & Olfactory Senses
--Occupies large part of the brain
--Shares areas & pathways with memory & cannabinoid receptors
--Pure THC strain mixed with lemonine = specific effect
--Much potential for future research & development
--Aromas may be genetically bred & environmentally coaxed
--Aromatherapy
+'Vibrational Medicine'​

 

[JessE]

...I think the main problem here is that DJ basically worked the line to the point where his work could be ripped off...he takes his blue lines all the way to f5 stage, so you could say his offering was basically a Blueberry IBL, which we all know can be easily duplicated...Nirvana would have very little work to do if they wanted to claim the strain...hype creates the market...Sagarmatha was charging an arm and a leg...I could see why Nirvana wanted the credit, but I do believe they were much more interested in the $...the DireStraits come to mind: "Money for nothing and your chicks for free"...that's my take on it...thanks for the input...jay

Hi Jay,

I think the true story of blueberry is a little more complicated than what most at Icmag have been lead to believe. As I’ve previously touched upon, if one was to register an account at Icmag and post a thread speaking of the Blueberry from the '90s where the legend was built, one would no doubt be pointed to the DJ Short forum and ultimately where to acquire his genetics. However DJ Short did not offer a Blueberry in the '90s, even into the early part of 2000 the only blueberry strains available were from Dutch Passion, Sag and Nirvana. These were the days where Overgrow.com was the king forum, (imagine Icmag now only 2-3 more popular at its height, if not more) and RC at Heaven stairway and Gypsy at Seeds direct were the main banks in which most used to acquire their genetics. (In fact for sometime RC at Heavens Stairway was the only place to acquire MNS Neville’s Haze.)

Other varieties from DJ Short, such as Flo, Blue Moon Shine etc. in fact were originally offered by others prior to DJ offering things under his own label. So it’s interesting to read DJ speaking of the original Flo mother, which he has had for 20 years, when there is a significant chance the Flo which has been widely available to customers over the last decade plus is probably derived from separate parental plants than the ones DJ is speaking of. As DJ mentioned on the previous page, he had a chance to see the mother and father plants kept by said companies, and considering these companies still offer their own versions and hybrids alike, it’s safe to presume the plants in DJ's library are separate from those kept by said companies. Who, as I’ve previously explained, were the only sources for the Blueberry legend to flourish as it did during the '90s and even the earlier part of this decade as well.

The role of Nirvana with blueberry had very little to do with them attempting to take credit for the line, and everything to do with capitalizing on the success of the line by making money. As has been the case for some time now. The fact Nirvana Blueberry was pushed so aggressively at perhaps the most popular online cannabis forum of all time, at a very attractive price, with semi respectable results is the true key to Nirvanas role in getting the Blueberry experience out there to the general public. We're not talking a couple hundred sales, we're talking thousands easily. Over a period of years. You have to remember that the history of cannabis forums, and their propaganda power are not things from the '50s. During this period, things were still very exciting and new, and few had an idea the forums were being used as a medium to drive seed sales with "marketing strategies." lol

For many years in the '90s and onward, Blueberry was widely available commercially here in the states. This blueberry was obviously acquired in seed form by the commercial growers from the Sagarmathas, Dutch Passions and Nirvanas of the world. And thus it’s the blueberry (Flo, Blue Moonshine etc) from these selected lines that their reputation is built upon. While it may be true these lines have origins from DJ, I’m willing to bet Tony at Sag and those at Dutch Passion who did the primary breeding of what would become commercially available during the '90s would not be so willing to ignore their own contributions to the blue family legend.

Which leads us to some simple truths about the cannabis industry in general, that few things are ever as clear cut as they seem on initial appearances. If one was searching for the memory of Blueberry from the '90s, they may have better luck searching the blueberry lines which have been commercially available since the '90s rather than from DJ's separate, but related stock which may have been the base for the '90s legend, but which are not the exact parental lines in which the legend was built. And as has been previously discussed, there isn’t just one source for the entire sum of the legend. But rather a melting pot of contributions which went into making the blueberry story what is today.

The DJ Short reputation itself is partly based on the success the blue family had with those who did the selection and breeding work separate from DJs own hand. When DJ speaks of having a Flo mother for 20 years, is he speaking of the same Flo that gained such a respected reputation from Dutch Passion? Or is he speaking of a Flo derived from separate, but related lines to those kept by Dutch Passion? As we've seen with Blueberry, the answer isnt as obvious as it would initially seem. When one examines the nuances of the blue family history, you will find what is popularly posted at today’s forums rarely is a comprehensive overview of the entire story itself.

 

[Ronin]

Been smoking Blueberry since the late 80's. It always came from the west coast of the USA. It was always around on the Dead tour if you knew the right people.

 

[Bean Cracker]

I first acquired the full line of Blue stock offered by Sagarmatha in 1996. I didn't know the back-story at the time, and wouldn't have picked them up if I did. However, I ran Blueberry, Flo and Blue Velvet from different stock at various points in time. In my opinion, the beans that Tony (Sag) offered in the mid-late 90's were the pinnacle of the Blue line. I've run a subsequent version of Sag's Blueberry a few years ago, and can say with certainty that the parents are different from when it was released in the 90's. While the quality of the more recent stock was acceptable, the 90's version was exceptional!

I've never run DP's versions, but have seen it and tasted it several times from friends (BB,BV,Flo). It is clear to me that when DJ joined forces with DP, the recipes had changed. In fact, DJ and DP touted that the BB line was "new" and, hence, different. I tend to speculate that DJ wanted to distance the DP offerings from those of Sag's in order to direct his followers to an outlet that he favored. DP's version of BB, when initially released, was good, but clearly not bred as well as Sag's. I tend to think that DJ gave DP BB stock that was from different parents than what Sag received. Besides selection criteria, I really think the parental beans were inferior.

DJ's current Blueberry offering, IMO, is still an inferior version than what Sag offered in the 90's. We all know that Blueberry evolved over time through the various offerings that have been made public, but I will argue that they do not quite match up to the initial release that Tony made. My complaint with the current Blueberry offering by DJ is the mutant and vigor factors. While DJ has arrived at a product that produces a great head, it comes at the expense of other factors. When all things are considered, I truly believe that his older stock is better because it offered a great head, but had a more profound taste and better vigor.

I respect DJ, and still collect his gear and joint projects, but when it comes to Blueberry and Flo, his current offerings don't match up to those of yesteryear for the reasons I've stated. Only DJ knows where his vision wants to take him, but as a consumer I wish he would work backwards a bit to restore some of the traits that initially gained the line notoriety.

One quick comment on Blue Velvet. When I compare the BV that used to be offered by Sag and DP, Tony's version was head and shoulders above DP. I was extremely disappointed in the final product from DP. I can't chalk it up to grower error because the buds came from different growers who I consider talented and have a good eye for selection.

Has anybody else experienced, for a lack of better terms, the downward spiral of the Blue line that I portray or am I mistaken in my thoughts and observations? To me, the current Blue line is valued only in hybrids and not the pure offerings.

 

[JessE]

I first acquired the full line of Blue stock offered by Sagarmatha in 1996. I didn't know the back-story at the time, and wouldn't have picked them up if I did. However, I ran Blueberry, Flo and Blue Velvet from different stock at various points in time. In my opinion, the beans that Tony (Sag) offered in the mid-late 90's were the pinnacle of the Blue line. I've run a subsequent version of Sag's Blueberry a few years ago, and can say with certainty that the parents are different from when it was released in the 90's. While the quality of the more recent stock was acceptable, the 90's version was exceptional!

I've never run DP's versions, but have seen it and tasted it several times from friends (BB,BV,Flo). It is clear to me that when DJ joined forces with DP, the recipes had changed. In fact, DJ and DP touted that the BB line was "new" and, hence, different. I tend to speculate that DJ wanted to distance the DP offerings from those of Sag's in order to direct his followers to an outlet that he favored. DP's version of BB, when initially released, was good, but clearly not bred as well as Sag's. I tend to think that DJ gave DP BB stock that was from different parents than what Sag received. Besides selection criteria, I really think the parental beans were inferior.

DJ's current Blueberry offering, IMO, is still an inferior version than what Sag offered in the 90's. We all know that Blueberry evolved over time through the various offerings that have been made public, but I will argue that they do not quite match up to the initial release that Tony made. My complaint with the current Blueberry offering by DJ is the mutant and vigor factors. While DJ has arrived at a product that produces a great head, it comes at the expense of other factors. When all things are considered, I truly believe that his older stock is better because it offered a great head, but had a more profound taste and better vigor.

I respect DJ, and still collect his gear and joint projects, but when it comes to Blueberry and Flo, his current offerings don't match up to those of yesteryear for the reasons I've stated. Only DJ knows where his vision wants to take him, but as a consumer I wish he would work backwards a bit to restore some of the traits that initially gained the line notoriety.

One quick comment on Blue Velvet. When I compare the BV that used to be offered by Sag and DP, Tony's version was head and shoulders above DP. I was extremely disappointed in the final product from DP. I can't chalk it up to grower error because the buds came from different growers who I consider talented and have a good eye for selection.

Has anybody else experienced, for a lack of better terms, the downward spiral of the Blue line that I portray or am I mistaken in my thoughts and observations? To me, the current Blue line is valued only in hybrids and not the pure offerings.

Hi all,
Excellent write up bean cracker, I do not believe you're alone, and can virtually guarantee a large number of people interested in realizing memories of yesterday. I would be interested in hearing Sagarmatha and Dutch Passions versions of events in comparison to some of the idea's expressed in this thread. As we've seen is the case in the past with other varieties, the base facts may differ according to who you're speaking with.

As I suspect is the case with many out there, the desire to grow cannabis similar to that in which one enjoys smoking or has enjoyed smoking in the past is a natural part of the consumer process. Often times research is the only option available for those attempting to track down a mystery, which is threads such as this and others where information is shared by a number of individuals with similar interest without the aid of moderation, administration or personal clicks in turning the tide of truth into something other than the entire picture.

 

[jaybutta]

Autograph & Blue OG

Hey Jay,

My apologies for that...that's what I get for reading your post while being really ripped

Thanks for answering the question tho...I am up in Washington state so I can't get any of those cuts from Oregon or Cali...I enjoy searching for the keepers myself though

I have been curious about the TB because I used to have an awesome cut of original BB about 10 years ago and I was wondering how they were exactly related so thanks a lot!

JessE's points are well taken...it sounds like the BB of yesteryear is very difficult to find in seed form these days.

Cheers and thanks for sharing all of the awesome info!

Sensi13

I'd guess that his cuts are closer to you than you think...I could be wrong...

Blueberry x OG...DJ says it's got a 1:1 CBD:THC ratio...rare smoke...smooth taste...very mellow high...

 

[jaybutta]

Notes & Quotes : Part 1

To be clear, DJ did not breed the Blue OG...he commented on the bud multiple times, so he must know whoever did breed that plant...in terms of a 1:1 ratio, the subject came up when he began discussing the future of cannabis breeding, wherein breeders would take strains in the direction of lower THC levels and higher CBD levels...so, in essence, the Blue OG is an experiment...it is a creeper high, just like the OG, but with a high more on the Blueberry side...deliciously nice and relaxing...not overwhelming...very functional...great for daytime or night...not too shabby...not too hard on the eyes either...kind of a "bud light", if you will...

Disclaimer

These notes are the best I could do...some of the quotes are as accurate as I could get them at the time...as you will read, he has some interesting comments...

Notes & Quotes

7/21 DJ Short's Class - MCC Directory

11am

Quality - Character of Herb

Ethics - "It's about healing. Healing is a complicated subject."

1st aspect - healing myself

Q: How did you breed Blueberry?
A: I was trying to satisfy my own head. It was about my own personal preferences.

"Healing deals with disease...fixing the imbalance."

2nd aspect - healing those in proximity to us. Family, friends, etc.
"Heal the community. Heal the species. Heal the planet."

Relieving pain/Comforting the sick
Difference b/n Healing and Curing: doctors cure, but anyone can heal.
"It's part of our dharma."

Cannabis is the perfect substance for doing this.

Symbiotic relationship with cannabis: we grow the plant-->plant helps us.

"Safest substance known to human beings." LD/50

The Green Rush: This is the first wave. Now the job is to educate the public.
"You've got the truth on your side."

Medicine: providing the most beneficial medicine
Quality vs Quantity
Potency vs Subtle Characteristics

"First it(the trend) was THC, now it's CBD, then it will be terpinous oils, then..."

Essential oils-->Vibrational Medicine

Standards and Standardization

Difficult to do. One clone grown differently
if given to 2 different growers
Indoor-->Generic Environment-->provides an avenue for standardization​

Vintages - very similar to the wine industry

"Organic Certification will be important again."
-->Quality from your product

Ethics - Integrity

"It cannot be compromised."
"Be honest and upfront. Truth in advertising."
"Give credit where credit is due."
"Pay your dues instead of paying for mistakes made in the past."​

"Patience. The value in waiting is extreme. Especially at the end of flowering cycle. Just one week and it'll be a different plant."

Festina Lente - Make haste slowly. "Baby steps!"

"We're in that change (change in attitudes towards cannabis). We're seeing it now."

 

[kylebroflovski]

I want to start by saying I respect any man/woman who has dedicated their lives to a pursuit many considered deplorable and evil in the 80's and 90's. Just say no. So for that I tip my hat to DJ and do have alot of respect for him and his work. Now i also respect the truth so... 1. A majority of the growing/breeding techniques practiced by DJ are probably not ideal to emulate (ican answer questions regarding this to senior/respected members of mr nice forums in PM) 2. DJ was not "robbed" by Tony or any of the other "dutch breeders." DJ received payment for his seeds by his own admition (sp?). 3. The leaf variegation is not restricted to color but also has leaf "crinkling" (DJ's words in his description of grape krush where he refers to the "crinkle effect") or as some would refer to as a "mutation" which it definitely is not (a mutation does not occur with such frequency as does this crinkle effect). Now this is where the truth ends and my hypothesis begins. . . DJ short seeds possess a viral pathogen which was brought into existance by his "anti establishmental" growing practices. Hopefully this virus is not more sinistar in nature (SB would educate us on pathogens surviving in seed form?) I will be more careful forming opinions of people I havent yet met in the future. This way when I see behind the curtain like the Wizard of Oz its not such a disappointment.

 

[jaybutta]

Notes & Quotes : Part 2

I would like for you to explain yourself here, out in the open, kyle...those are rather bold accusations to make...if what you say is true, it's worth discussion...

Notes & Quotes

Q: DJ Short's Clones/Genetics (imitators)
A: (His plate is too full to care.) Too much other stuff going on.
In a legal environment, he would do something about it.
"Yes, I will be far more aggressive." (about actively trademarking his work, in the event of legalization)
"I don't mind the competition, but someone using my cut of my strains to make money is wrong."

Alteration of Consciousness

"It provides me with what I like to call a 'stereoscopic' view of reality."
(People that are not experienced feel...)...it (cannabis) gives an unfair advantage. Those people (the inexperienced) have a limited scope of reality. Once a person has a full perspective (of reality), they can make their/better decisions about life.

Occasionally fast or take a break.
(Clear the mental palate.)

He likes to smoke just before bed.
"I really get a great benefit from the herb."
It affects dream state.
"I break my fast when I have vivid dreams." (4-5 days off)

"It affects how we think and feel."

Shulgin's Rating Scale-->Pinkal
Huxley's Doors of Perception

Elderly
Nursing Homes/Convalescent Centers - Lifetime occupation waiting to happen.

Israeli's Cannabis Research & MDMA (Note to self, Look this up)

Cannabis, NOT Marijuana!
-->demonizing slang term
-->no predisposition of a negative connotation with 'cannabis'.
-->people will support 'cannabis'

"Our medicine works better and is cheaper. Certain people (the $7 billion pharma industry) are going to be upset about this."

"We're in this phase of change that never ceases to amaze me."

"There's nothing wrong with making money, but don't be greedy."

The Dichotomies

99% of available strains are all hybrids
not indica, not sativa, hybrids is what they are
percentages (of any given strain) are all subjective (60/40, 50/50 etc.)

Sativas determined by flowering time. If it takes 12-16 weeks to flower, it's a sativa.

Landrace Seed
-->(they are available, but...) they are already acclimated, each generation is farther removed
-->you have to travel to the original locations to get
"They will resurface as things open up."

What is good herb?
-Does what it is meant to do
-quick onset (of the high) usually means a short duration (in his opinion)

No genetic drift in his 20 year old Flo mother.

"Potency is not character."
Example: MAD DOG 20/20 vs A Fine Wine
Stupefication vs Clarity
"I'm after clarity!"

"Curing is half the game. It really is so important."

 

[kylebroflovski]

I guess I should finish what I started in the open. I invested buque dollars in DJ's gear over the years, so Iam not questioning his genetics they are solid and IMO (my indica loving friends disagree) super dank meds especially regarding the anti depresive aspects of most of his varieties. The F13 is my personal favorite. It is my theory that the crinkle leaf/Leaf discolorations present in DJs gear are as a result of his cutting methods. He has mentioned in the past in written form that he takes cuts places them directly in water bottles/containers and puts them in the fridge. What he has not mentioned is how long he has had to keep these cuts in the fridge because of his busy schedule. This practice has introduced a viral pathogen IMO which is evidenced by the crinkle leaf and discolorations present in his strains. This virus also IMO is the reason why Flodica seeds were sterile. SB could educate us on the passing of pathogens in seed form and its effects. In addition to this bold accusation I also am of the opinion that GOOD breeders don't release varieties that have hermaphroditic tendancies. DJ has claimed that the herm problem with his landrace Thais was prevelant at first but he worked it out over time through successful line breeding. If this is true then why the issues with the GrapeKrush? That strain was mad hermaphroditic. And also if he was in fact line breeding and using multiple males like SB does and all good breeders do IMO then his seeds would be more diverse in phenotypes. Each variety I have started from seed of DJ's over the years has been fairly uniform. He has claimed this is a result of a backcross at a specific generation, Iam claiming shenanigans on that one also.

 

[Resinfinger]

Dj

Jay thanks for taking the time to put all your notes up here for all of us to see. I wish I could have attended that class.

Kyle from what I have read dj never said he got rid of the hermi trait from the Thai. He did say that he never uses ones that do in his breeding. He has stated that he tests and stresses plants to make sure those tendancies are not prevelant. I have not grown a lot I'd dj's gear but grape krush does have some auto flowering tendancies. I've spent a lot of time at another forum that is quite extensive on dj's gear. Dj also says he does not backcross and he always moves forward. Where did you get this info? Did you have a reputable source on where you acquired his seeds?

 

[jaybutta]

Stay Tuned

I guess I should finish what I started in the open. I invested buque dollars in DJ's gear over the years, so Iam not questioning his genetics they are solid and IMO (my indica loving friends disagree) super dank meds especially regarding the anti depresive aspects of most of his varieties. The F13 is my personal favorite. It is my theory that the crinkle leaf/Leaf discolorations present in DJs gear are as a result of his cutting methods. He has mentioned in the past in written form that he takes cuts places them directly in water bottles/containers and puts them in the fridge. What he has not mentioned is how long he has had to keep these cuts in the fridge because of his busy schedule. This practice has introduced a viral pathogen IMO which is evidenced by the crinkle leaf and discolorations present in his strains. This virus also IMO is the reason why Flodica seeds were sterile. SB could educate us on the passing of pathogens in seed form and its effects. In addition to this bold accusation I also am of the opinion that GOOD breeders don't release varieties that have hermaphroditic tendancies. DJ has claimed that the herm problem with his landrace Thais was prevelant at first but he worked it out over time through successful line breeding. If this is true then why the issues with the GrapeKrush? That strain was mad hermaphroditic. And also if he was in fact line breeding and using multiple males like SB does and all good breeders do IMO then his seeds would be more diverse in phenotypes. Each variety I have started from seed of DJ's over the years has been fairly uniform. He has claimed this is a result of a backcross at a specific generation, Iam claiming shenanigans on that one also.

Thanks for sharing, Kyle...I believe this issue is covered in my notes (Part 4)...I appreciate any and all views concerning this subject...cheers for the input...jay

 

[jaybutta]

There's More!

Jay thanks for taking the time to put all your notes up here for all of us to see. I wish I could have attended that class.

I'm not done yet, my man...only 4 more 'Parts' to go, including my conclusions...as you can see he has a lot to say...some controversial things to come...jay

 

[madzonga]

Thanks jaybuuta for writing this up!!!

 

["#"]

hello Jay,

thank you for shareing "first class" pardon the pun.


I wonder if Shanti would consider doing a course/class in europe?.





#

 

[jaybutta]

Notes & Quotes : Part 3

Thanks jaybuuta for writing this up!!!

No problem, mate...appreciate the support...

Notes & Quotes

Bland Potency
Bag Appeal ---> "3 things holding down the quality of herb, I feel."
Cash Croppers

Acapulco Gold: towards the end of it's importation, it was only seeds and dust
"I would pay more for that than I would for any of the commercially available green buds."

Highland Oaxaca (vivid description of the plant's growth characteristics from veg to bloom, too much to write down)

(Trainwreck comes from Salmon Creek Big Bud)

"Everything I've sampled (commercially available cannabis) is B grade."
"They lack character."

"I prefer seeded bud in terms of a finished product."
"Gives the total cannabinoidal spectrum...broadens the cannabinoidal profile."

"Try to create that fine wine."-->breeder's goal

"Uniqueness. There's nothing else like them on the market. Everything is so
similar to one another. Look to establish that uniqueness."

His advice is to "play with a bunch of strains and see which one's stand out."

"In Nepal I'm hearing there are plants living for 3 years. 25 feet tall. 25 feet wide."
"Moving from an annual to a perennial."

Finest Hash Available-->Nepalese Temple Ball, Kashmir BlahBlah (missed that one!)
"Hashish is another goal to be striving for."
"Domestically herb is overpriced or hash is underpriced."

Hundred Meter Hash-->hash that never goes further than 100 yards from where it's made (a term from Howard Mark's book, Mr. Nice)

1 gram of hash-->100 grams of herb

Freeze it immediately!
If a plant herms 3 weeks before harvest, chop it and put it in the freezer.

Smoking vs Eating
-->Smoking bypasses the liver - CEILING
-->Eating metabolizes int he body, goes through the liver, which puts an enzyme on it - NO CEILING

Glycerin Extracts
Herb in a jar with glycerin - simple, effective

Luther Burbank's Law
"Select the best and reject all others."
DJ's Law
"Progeny must surpass parents in order to be considered for future breeding."

F1s
all uniform
doesn't matter which F1s are crossed
F2s is where selection comes into play

Transgressive Segregation
F2 diversity
Dog Breeding Example:

Great Dane x Chihuahua
F1s will be in the middle, mostly uniform
F2s will show progeny bigger than the Great Dane and
smaller than the Chihuahua​

F2s-->look for characteristics

F1 Generation​

B = Berry
X = Resin
P = Purple
F = Fruit (or Floral, two separate traits)

F2 Generation​

BX = Berry with Potency
FP = Fruity Purple

F3 Generation​

BX(female) x FP(male) => BX/FP

Or you can isolate (select for certain) traits and instead create:

BX(female) x BX(male) => BX/BX

"The seeds that I release are F5s. That way you get F6s."

 

[AgD]

Hello all,
Just a little heads up for anyone confused enough to believe that that the variegation and crinkle traits within Dj's blue lines are viral in origin, a few simple tests will set you straight. Go buy or borrow lab type microscope, mount leaf specimen underside up and look at the stomata openings in areas of the leaf with normal growth and then take a look at the stomata on areas of mutated tissue. Notice anything? Now go grab a book on plant genetics or advanced propagation and read up on chimeral variegation(no not the Chimera Virus from Resident Evil you silly stoners) and polyploidism. If you still aren't set straight on this issue now, there is just one more test to preform. Go get one of those awful diseased virus carrying DJ Short plants that you are scared of. Careful now, you don't want to catch this virulent disease yourself better be safe and put a bio-hazard suit on. Ok, now that you have taken the proper precautions grab the most twisted variegated diseased leaf you can find and squeeze the leaf petiole till a small drop of sap appears at the cut end. Now get one of your non DJ plants and wound the stem somewhere just a few inches down from the apical meristem, apply diseased plant sap to wound. There all done stand back and wait for your healthy plant to become twisted and variegated as the virus takes over, just don't hold your breath. I have spent well over 1000hrs of lab time removing viral pathogens from just about every member of the genus Brassica and a few other agricultural crops using just about every current technique known. I have also seen just about every viral, bacterial, or fungal pathogen of vascular plants that occurs in North America either in person or in technical manuals. I have also been playing with 8 of DJ Shorts seed lines for the past 9 years with well over two hundred of his seeds germinated and many many more that I have made from in-crosses and out-crosses of his lines. From my light dabbling in plant genetics and micro-propagation I am more inclined to form the hypothesis that DJ Shorts lines where at one point treated with a spindle toxin such as colchicine or oryzalin that allowed the production of polyploid tissue that is carried on through sexual propagation leading to offspring with differing amounts and types of polyploidism(this is called a mixoploid look it up!) within the same plant specimen. DJ even states that this is what he believes may have happened(minus the mixoploid part that's all me). While this can lead to a number of terminal genetic flaws such as sterility and growth retardation, it can also lead to increased aromatic compounds, stronger cell walls and many other desirable traits. It's up to you to make the selections you find appealing! For real fun and excitement take a cutting from each branch of your favorite mutant Blueberry, Flo, Vanilluna, OTM or whichever one you are lucky enough to have that show a different expressions and flower them out and be amazed by the diversity you can find in just one seed! Now you can decide whether to believe kylebroflovski's conjecture, my technical blather, or you can wake up and start making your own hypothesis about what the world is doing around you. So I hope you all enjoyed my first post. DJ if you read this hope to see ya again soon, and I won't forget about the veggie seeds I promised to bring you! AgD