Cloning CRITICAL MASS
- Thread starter Chaz
- Start date
b0b_b1tch1n
Banned
Nygee624
New member
cloning
Make a cheap bubble cloner imo,K.I.S.S, I have no probs 8-10 days to root most strains,actually I have to control myself and don't go clone crazy,I just got some Critical Mass from Shanti,in about a months time ,im going to see what the big deal about getting it to root is,for about 30 $$ you can build one ,no rooting gel bs,no dome ,just cut,and put in oxygenated room temp decholrinated water,thats it,water temps close to 80degress make things a lil faster....Good tip Cabron good to see your still here,would still like to talk shop with you.....and Panacea 45 degree cut,more surface area,not say it won't root if you tear it off,but 45degree cut is the PROper way.......Peace
Make a cheap bubble cloner imo,K.I.S.S, I have no probs 8-10 days to root most strains,actually I have to control myself and don't go clone crazy,I just got some Critical Mass from Shanti,in about a months time ,im going to see what the big deal about getting it to root is,for about 30 $$ you can build one ,no rooting gel bs,no dome ,just cut,and put in oxygenated room temp decholrinated water,thats it,water temps close to 80degress make things a lil faster....Good tip Cabron good to see your still here,would still like to talk shop with you.....and Panacea 45 degree cut,more surface area,not say it won't root if you tear it off,but 45degree cut is the PROper way.......Peace
not trying to be rude so ill say sorry first ,,,
i honestly believe you have no idea of what your talking about
none of what you said makes sence to me and ive never ever heard , read , or seen any of what you said anywhere
google cloneing , from the tons and tons of results you will find EVERY post says cut at an angle
for one it gives you more surface to produce roots and 2 (VERY IMPORTANT) the plant heals better at the spot it was cut
Professional growers (for commercial plants I mean) --- i know quite a few and they ALL cut at an angle , im talking guys who do thousands of plants at a time and hire employes , some are legal and some arent
once again i have NEVER in all my years heard of cutting a straight cut , my mother is a greenhouse manager and has been my entire life , she used to grow in her younger years and even taught me how to cut clones at around age 10 , im 39 now ,,,, how many years have you been cutting clones Panacea ?
please Panacea do a simple google search and do some reading , it seems you have lots to learn
peace
Sorry for the late response, I forgot about this thread. I usually just press "New posts" and open all that seems interesting in different tabs, sometimes I miss a post or two.
I could of course be wrong about this. It is however what I learned when I was in school (I'm employed as a gardener right now but I am a educated in greenhouse and outdoors agriculture). Also, all the growers I've visited and/or worked with made a straight cut. When we got (commercial) rooted clones from Holland they were also all cut with a straight cut.
Maybe it's a geographic thing? Are you located in the US? I'm located in Europe.
I'll search my botany books to see if I can find anything about it. I'd rather do that than use google since then you get all these lists about how to do but they never explain why to do it in a certain way.
b0b_b1tch1n
Banned
i already told you a couple reasons why and one of them being very important , THE PLANT HEALS BETTER ! , when making a straight cut the fluids sit on top of the cut stem and can and quite offtin do cause stem rot , leaving the plant open to pests and disease
the 2 reasons i gave earlier should be enough to realise cutting straight is not the smartest thing to do
whats wrong with google ? it will get you tons of professional results on this topic not just from sites like this
your school should be ashamed of themselves my mother has managed a very large greenhouse company for 30+ years , if she heard your school was teaching bad habbits like that she would contact them and rip them all new assholes
the 2 reasons i gave earlier should be enough to realise cutting straight is not the smartest thing to do
whats wrong with google ? it will get you tons of professional results on this topic not just from sites like this
your school should be ashamed of themselves my mother has managed a very large greenhouse company for 30+ years , if she heard your school was teaching bad habbits like that she would contact them and rip them all new assholes
Old School
New member
Hey Chaz, this thread has been alive for awhile and looks like you got some excellent info on everything to do right when cloning. But just in case nothing worked for you, thought I'd add my 50 cents worth.
I had the same problem awhile back with an "old school" predecessor to Critical Mass, a Big Bud / G13 cross. Ran the same mother for a few years with no problem, along with an old pure Indica strain called Frankenstein (makes you walk like your nuts are loose).
For the longest time all was good with both strains, 95+ success rate with the cuts. Then things started dropping off, and eventually affected my Frankenstein as well. Went from 10-14 days to 25+ days, by which time most were dead, and the few that survived were slow to start their veg cycle when transplanted. Once they got hold, the few remaining took off and did fine.
I chased all the good ideas you got here with no change in results. Then one day someone dropped a magnifying glass on my head and I took a closer look - SPIDER MITES. Teeny little bastards too small to see unless you have 10X vision.
I dosed the mother with Neem oil, three times over three weeks, and just to be safe, fogged the room between rounds. Problem solved, but alas, not before my G13 / Bug Bud mother bit the dust. But Miss Frankenstein made it, loose nuts and all. Wheew!!!
Hope this helps, if not for you, them someone somewhere.
Happy Cuttings!!!
I had the same problem awhile back with an "old school" predecessor to Critical Mass, a Big Bud / G13 cross. Ran the same mother for a few years with no problem, along with an old pure Indica strain called Frankenstein (makes you walk like your nuts are loose).
For the longest time all was good with both strains, 95+ success rate with the cuts. Then things started dropping off, and eventually affected my Frankenstein as well. Went from 10-14 days to 25+ days, by which time most were dead, and the few that survived were slow to start their veg cycle when transplanted. Once they got hold, the few remaining took off and did fine.
I chased all the good ideas you got here with no change in results. Then one day someone dropped a magnifying glass on my head and I took a closer look - SPIDER MITES. Teeny little bastards too small to see unless you have 10X vision.
I dosed the mother with Neem oil, three times over three weeks, and just to be safe, fogged the room between rounds. Problem solved, but alas, not before my G13 / Bug Bud mother bit the dust. But Miss Frankenstein made it, loose nuts and all. Wheew!!!
Hope this helps, if not for you, them someone somewhere.
Happy Cuttings!!!
Yeah, but the question up for debate was whether or not to cut the clone straight or not, not the cut on the mother plant. I always make the first cut (when I take the clone from the mother plant) at an angle, because of the reasons you said. Then I make a new (straight) cut on the clone just before I stick it in it's new medium.
You misunderstood me, there's absolutely nothing wrong with google. I just don't like to follow a advice when the author (or, as most often, the copy/paste dude) doesn't explain why to do it in a certain way. Knahmean?
Whoa, your mother seems a bit harsh. Anyway, my school taught me some things which I found weird, I then made some research of my own and could correct them on some things. I couldn't however find any scientifically articles about whether or not to cut clones at an angle or not. So I went with experience and what professional growers (in my area) do instead. That left me believing that a straight cut is to prefer. Now, as I said, I'm not sure it's the right thing to do, most of the times it really doesn't matter as long as you do the rest of the things correct, right. Maybe they cut it straight only because that make the stem more resistance to injury by force when sticking it into dirt or whatever. (A cut at an angle is obviously weaker in the lowest part towards mechanical damage.)
I would however love to be handed a study which proves either way correct.
Peace
b0b_b1tch1n
Banned
i told you , more rooting surfacei highly doubt you order/buy comercial cuttings that were cut straight , there should be some medium around it so you wouldnt see the cut and even if you got it bare you should see soo many roots you wouldnt be able to see the actual cut anymore , i think you make shit up just to be able to give advice , sucks for newcommers that your advice is bad
Yeah well, you told me you had more than one reasons for it also...
So why don't you just split the lower part of the clone in half if it's only more rooting surface you're after? Why the angle and not just scarring it or split it in half?
Cannabis will root even without a cut, try it and you'll see. It's not necessary to open the stem up you know.
Uhm, yeah, 'cause that wouldn't make me look stupid if it came back to bit me in the arse, eh?
I obviously opened up some of the cuttings to see for myself. They all came in peat briquettes and it wasn't exactly DWC root balls in there. It was no problem observing the stems on the ones which got damaged or the ones I split in two myself to observe the roots.
When you're working with tens of thousands plants you'll sacrifice a few to see how they are rooted and so on before you put in a lot of hours of re potting them.
When you root your clones, do you only get roots from the cut?
b0b_b1tch1n
Banned
i do split the stem and also scrape the stem up a 1/4 inch , i also make shallow cuts , if you would have read my posts from early in this thread you would have known these things
you are the ONLY person i have EVER heard in almost 30 years of doing this that claims the cut should be straight
a straight cut is retarded and im done talking to you , its like talking to a brick wall
all the best luck to those learning and seeking help
peace
Since I'm no brick wall I cut my cuttings from my six Critical Mass with an angle this time. As I said before I'll probably have near 100% success with this (slightly different) method also.
Anyway, Canna also recommends cutting your clones with a straight cut. I qoute from Canna Talk issue #6, you can download it here: CANNAtalk - Magazine for serious growers
It's me who made some parts bold.
"Now for the big news ... cut it straight, not angled*! Calluses form faster and seal off the stem quicker on a straight cut than on an angled cut, thereby reducing the incidence of disease."
"*Cutting at an angle is not a bad practice, but the chance of getting bacterial and/or fungal disease in your cutting is slightly higher. The advantage of cutting at an angle is that the cutting is likely to develop more roots. To minimise loss of cuttings from disease, cut them straight, not angled."
So, as I said, it's not necessarily bad to cut at an angle. But if someone has problems with rooting clones which aren't known for being especially hard to root it's better to cut them straight.
Maybe you should do some research before you call a method "retarded". But your nicknames Bob Bitchin so...
Peace
Anyway, Canna also recommends cutting your clones with a straight cut. I qoute from Canna Talk issue #6, you can download it here: CANNAtalk - Magazine for serious growers
It's me who made some parts bold.
"Now for the big news ... cut it straight, not angled*! Calluses form faster and seal off the stem quicker on a straight cut than on an angled cut, thereby reducing the incidence of disease."
"*Cutting at an angle is not a bad practice, but the chance of getting bacterial and/or fungal disease in your cutting is slightly higher. The advantage of cutting at an angle is that the cutting is likely to develop more roots. To minimise loss of cuttings from disease, cut them straight, not angled."
So, as I said, it's not necessarily bad to cut at an angle. But if someone has problems with rooting clones which aren't known for being especially hard to root it's better to cut them straight.
Maybe you should do some research before you call a method "retarded". But your nicknames Bob Bitchin so...
Peace
b0b_b1tch1n
Banned
your a fool if you believe everything you read , even the T.Y magazine recently had some bad articals posted and they have had to stop accepting articals from the indavidual who made them , i COMPLETELY disagree with what Canna Talk issue #6 is suposidly saying
there are a ton of experts/professionals who say the opposite of what you just said , and from your own experience you should know yourself that what you said is wrong , any time i slip and make my cut straight the branch on the mother plant suffers , and i meen EVERYTIME , its simple , the crap comming out of the stem has nowhere to go and sits on top of the stem causing rot at the cut when the cut is straight (unless the branch is at a good angle) and you said yourself The advantage of cutting at an angle is that the cutting is likely to develop more roots.
as for my name , its bitchin , NOT bitching , im getting tired of explaining the difference to stupid ppl
maybe you need to do some real research before telling someone else to do so
im done with this convo , do it however you want
there are a ton of experts/professionals who say the opposite of what you just said , and from your own experience you should know yourself that what you said is wrong , any time i slip and make my cut straight the branch on the mother plant suffers , and i meen EVERYTIME , its simple , the crap comming out of the stem has nowhere to go and sits on top of the stem causing rot at the cut when the cut is straight (unless the branch is at a good angle) and you said yourself The advantage of cutting at an angle is that the cutting is likely to develop more roots.
as for my name , its bitchin , NOT bitching , im getting tired of explaining the difference to stupid ppl
maybe you need to do some real research before telling someone else to do so
im done with this convo , do it however you want
You completely disagree that callus form and seal of the stem faster when the clone is cut straight? If so, you're the fool.
The clone develop more roots if you cut it at an angle, that should be your point still and you should stick to it. Now you just seem lost.
It's also been pretty clear that I don't believe in everything I read, you on the other hand seem to go by 'if a lot of people say it's like this, it must be right'. I try to find several different sources and discuss them all with myself as well amongst other people, just like we are doing now. Then I hopefully can come to a conclusion on how to do. I'm still not convinced about this matter, it seems like neither should you. Who's actually the brick wall here, Bob?
Again, I never said to make the cut on the mother plant straight. That should be cut at an angle, for the reasons you said. But then I cut my clone one more time. That way I can make the cut on the mother where it suits her best and I do a new (straight) cut on the clone.
You didn't adress my point of callus forming faster, thus being more effective in preventing disease in your last post. You only talk about the cut on the mother which I obviosly didn't. Maybe you should read my last post again.
Please feel free to post a quote from 'a expert' that says that a cut at an angle (ON THE CLONE) is better in disease prevention than a straight cut.
And why it's better to advice someone who have problems with rooting to make the cut with an angle instead of straight on a strain which isn't known for being hard to root. That implies that it might be some problem with fungus or disease and therefore it's more important that the clone stay healthy than it is for it to root as fast as possible.
And about your name, 'bitchin' is the same thing as 'bitching'. Sure it can mean at least two things. How are one supposed to know which one you refer too? With your attitude it's easier to come to the conclusion that you like to bitch about things rather than being cool or awesome or what ever you're refering to. Or does it mean something totally different when adding awesome (sigh) numbers amongst the letters......
The clone develop more roots if you cut it at an angle, that should be your point still and you should stick to it. Now you just seem lost.
It's also been pretty clear that I don't believe in everything I read, you on the other hand seem to go by 'if a lot of people say it's like this, it must be right'. I try to find several different sources and discuss them all with myself as well amongst other people, just like we are doing now. Then I hopefully can come to a conclusion on how to do. I'm still not convinced about this matter, it seems like neither should you. Who's actually the brick wall here, Bob?
Again, I never said to make the cut on the mother plant straight. That should be cut at an angle, for the reasons you said. But then I cut my clone one more time. That way I can make the cut on the mother where it suits her best and I do a new (straight) cut on the clone.
You didn't adress my point of callus forming faster, thus being more effective in preventing disease in your last post. You only talk about the cut on the mother which I obviosly didn't. Maybe you should read my last post again.
Please feel free to post a quote from 'a expert' that says that a cut at an angle (ON THE CLONE) is better in disease prevention than a straight cut.
And why it's better to advice someone who have problems with rooting to make the cut with an angle instead of straight on a strain which isn't known for being hard to root. That implies that it might be some problem with fungus or disease and therefore it's more important that the clone stay healthy than it is for it to root as fast as possible.
And about your name, 'bitchin' is the same thing as 'bitching'. Sure it can mean at least two things. How are one supposed to know which one you refer too? With your attitude it's easier to come to the conclusion that you like to bitch about things rather than being cool or awesome or what ever you're refering to. Or does it mean something totally different when adding awesome (sigh) numbers amongst the letters......
b0b_b1tch1n
Banned
ive been growing for 29 years you idiot , i go from my own experience , i was simply commenting that a ton of experts/professionals say the opposite of what that artical and you claim , but apparently english is not your normal spoken language because you cant comprehend anything
as for "that callus form and seal of the stem faster " thats B.S , tell me how its true when the bubble of moisture sits on top of the stem for so long not allowing the cut to dry and HEAL , you cant ! , its freekin common sence that the moisture will run off the cut when its at an angle but you dont seem to have any common sence
as for bitchin , its a state of mind , a well being , as for bitching , well thats completely different so there !
DONT REPLY ANYMORE BECAUSE AS SOON AS I SEND THIS IM PUTTING YOU ON IGNORE ,!,,
to everyone else cloneing ,,, best of luck
p.s. here is a copy n paste straight from The Indoor/Outdoor Medical Grower's Bible by Jorge Cervantes found in chapter 3 (there are a ton more out there that say the same)
the open wound invites diseases and pests.Wash your hands and tools before and after pruning. Make cuts at a 45 degree angle to discurage moisture from sitting on wounds
so there is your quote from 'a expert' as you asked for Panacea and many many others could be quoted as saying the same so stick that in your pipe and smoke it , im now done with you , your dismissed ,!,,
as for "that callus form and seal of the stem faster " thats B.S , tell me how its true when the bubble of moisture sits on top of the stem for so long not allowing the cut to dry and HEAL , you cant ! , its freekin common sence that the moisture will run off the cut when its at an angle but you dont seem to have any common sence
as for bitchin , its a state of mind , a well being , as for bitching , well thats completely different so there !
DONT REPLY ANYMORE BECAUSE AS SOON AS I SEND THIS IM PUTTING YOU ON IGNORE ,!,,
to everyone else cloneing ,,, best of luck
p.s. here is a copy n paste straight from The Indoor/Outdoor Medical Grower's Bible by Jorge Cervantes found in chapter 3 (there are a ton more out there that say the same)
the open wound invites diseases and pests.Wash your hands and tools before and after pruning. Make cuts at a 45 degree angle to discurage moisture from sitting on wounds
so there is your quote from 'a expert' as you asked for Panacea and many many others could be quoted as saying the same so stick that in your pipe and smoke it , im now done with you , your dismissed ,!,,
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b0b_b1tch1n
Banned
doobz i edited my post , read the copy n paste i did , its claims the opposite of what Panacea and that artical he posted claims
yes doobz im set in my ways , but for very very good reason
going back to read Panacea's last reply to me he is now agreeing to make the cut at an angle to help the mother plant , and also stateing to have an angle gives the clone more rooting surface ,,,, SO WHY DID HE ARGUE IN THE FIRST PLACE AND CONTINUE TO NOW ?
also the angle cut allows the clone to take up more water/nutrients
yes doobz im set in my ways , but for very very good reason
going back to read Panacea's last reply to me he is now agreeing to make the cut at an angle to help the mother plant , and also stateing to have an angle gives the clone more rooting surface ,,,, SO WHY DID HE ARGUE IN THE FIRST PLACE AND CONTINUE TO NOW ?
also the angle cut allows the clone to take up more water/nutrients
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But you said that you never had made a straight cut. Then you have zero experience about that. How many years of growing you have in you doesn't mean anything to me. I know people who's been growing for decades also and they still do crazy things.
Is it? Why?
You still haven't understand my posts. And you call me an idiot who clearly hasn't English as his primary language? Do you let your clones dry out before you stick them into your medium (I obviously doubt that) or do you still talk about the cut on the mother plant? The cut which I've said many times already that it should be done with an angle to let the water from inside the (mother) plant run off.
When you place your cutting in your medium, it doesn't matter if the cut is straight since the medium around it is all moist.
Are you seriously still talking about the cut on the mother plant or am I totally misreading you?
Maybe you should leave slang to the youngsters or attend an 'urban English' class.
This is a forum where we are supposed to learn from each other. It's debates like this (well, not like this but civilized) where we can use each others experience and work together to improve our techniques. So I choose to reply still because maybe someone else can use this. As I said already, I'm still not convinced either way. And if you don't see this someone else will and they maybe can give some input, that would be great.
You behave like a child and not like a 40+ year old man or whatever your age is. I don't understand why you don't want my clones to root, I sincerely hope yours will. Even though you behave like a complete ass.
He is clearly talking about the cut on the mother plant and not the cut on the clone (but I assume that he makes that cut with an angle also).
Doobz
Thanks man. I follow your Nordle thread with interest!
A side by side would be fun. However, with healthy clones and medium it probably wont be a big (if any) difference since cannabis is so easy to clone. As I said before, it grows roots easily with other techniques which doesn't even include 'wounding' of the stem.
The straight cut is more important if there's a fungal and/or disease problem with the medium. That's where the advantage of the callus sealing the wound faster comes in handy. And that's why I think it's a good idea to try if someone has problems rooting a strain which normally have a excellent success rate. (As the thread starter had.) Because the problem might lie in disease in the medium or something like that.
I think Bob still believes that I promote cutting the clone of the mother with a straight cut also, which I don't. I've told him several times but he doesn't seem to grasp it. Probably to worked up on me to be able to take a step back and reconsider. Or it's me who misunderstand him. However, I obviously doubt that he lets his clones dry out before putting them in it's medium and since the medium must be moist, the clone don't have to have a angled cut since the wounded area will be all moist anyway and the water from within the clone will spread in the medium.
b0b_b1tch1n
Banned
you missed my newest edit ---> "also the angle cut allows the clone to take up more water/nutrients"
and yes if you read you would see i typed earlier that i have slipped and made straight cuts before
ive continually posted proven PROOF , proven by myself and many professionals but you keep arguing , you posted one artical claiming the opposite , but when doing a simple google search provides page after page of writeups claiming the same as i claim , other then your link i did not find one single person making the claims you make
and i clicked on a lot , i spend a good hour maybe 2 checking link after link
and yes if you read you would see i typed earlier that i have slipped and made straight cuts before
ive continually posted proven PROOF , proven by myself and many professionals but you keep arguing , you posted one artical claiming the opposite , but when doing a simple google search provides page after page of writeups claiming the same as i claim , other then your link i did not find one single person making the claims you make
and i clicked on a lot , i spend a good hour maybe 2 checking link after link
I never said to cut the clone from the mother with a straight cut. You can go back and re read my old posts and you will see that I several times stated that that cut always should be made with an angle. I can't believe I'm writing this all over... I make the cut when I take the clone from the mother at an angle. Then I cut the clone again, but straight this time. I've said that over and over again.
Oh my god, I have no time to write it all over again. You must go back and read all my posts and you will hopefully understand them. Take a deep breath and read them, without getting all worked up and thinking about what names to call me. Then you should understand why I promote the straight cut.
The author of this thread has problems rooting a strain which others doesn't have problems with. Therefore the problem might be fungus or disease, then it's more important for the clone to heal it's wound faster than for it to have a lot of surface to produce roots from. Because it will produce roots anyway.
Yes, that's true and I already said that also I believe. However, the clone isn't supposed (this I'm sure I already said) to take up nutrients and grow, not until it's formed roots with root hairs. If you want a flower you bought from a florist the angled cut is always to prefer. (Well that actually depends on what kind of flower it is but we're not discussing florist techniques here so I leave it be.)
That's why clones need high humidity. So they won't transpire all the water within before it's formed roots to drink with.
b0b_b1tch1n
Banned
cutting at an angle wont promote rot ect , unless your overwatering it , even a straight cut would do the same , hell the stem would rot higher then the cut straight or angled
soooo many reasons to make the cut at an angle and they have been posted
do it your way , ill do it the right way
do yourself a favor , do a google search "cutting clones" you dont even have to click most of the links because you can see it just from the google results page that they all say make the cut a 45 , and that includes any second cut you make to just the clone
honestly i couldnt find any results saying the cut should be straight , too many bennifits to the angle
im done argueing , thets move on and get along , ppl have much to read now and can make up thier own minds , and can experiment to see what works best for them
peace
soooo many reasons to make the cut at an angle and they have been posted
do it your way , ill do it the right way
do yourself a favor , do a google search "cutting clones" you dont even have to click most of the links because you can see it just from the google results page that they all say make the cut a 45 , and that includes any second cut you make to just the clone
honestly i couldnt find any results saying the cut should be straight , too many bennifits to the angle
im done argueing , thets move on and get along , ppl have much to read now and can make up thier own minds , and can experiment to see what works best for them
peace