Banana purple punch and gorilla punch seeds started

[CanaViper]

Quick update, yesterday got sidetracked pushing my new airfrier. Tried double rosters, it was a failure but learned a lot.

Will be up potting today after work.
Later
/steve

 

[CanaViper]

Today was brutal but I survived, home and time to give the ladies a upgrade.

Going to cut off the coco puck skins and up pot. I just got the bags for them and realized I upgraded my coco pucks to the next size up so there l2x as big as the jiffy’s I used to use (yuk). now the next bags seem small so I got out the next next up pot bag, decisions decisions.
Plus if I go to bigger bag that means a on the fly modifications to the upper deck.
Removing the shelf so the plant trays sit right on top of the tent.

…/steve

 

[CanaViper]

So I’m all in on skipping the small up pot and going to the bigger one but it should work good as long as the girls don’t start to sprint early. I had to go to big pots at top deck once before because my perpetual cycle timing was off. now I like the fact the that roots will have some to develop without interruption.
I think with the larger Viagrow coco pucks I can skip the first up pot
The beans were put under blankets on 2/18/24.

Got to love the ladies.
Signing off from newtown on my 3am pee and feeding.
/steve

*** I just ordered 2 more (upgraded) top deck light panels for ceiling to increase coverage.

Change to top deck

Before


After

 

[sneakyfeck]

what smells are you getting from the flower tent? must be smelling pretty good right about now.

 

[Freedom_Fighter]

Auto's can work in the veg tent . Some auto's are known good yielders. Had someone get a lb off one if I remember correctly it was auto night queen. And he did it more than once too See this post

Hi there Islandgrower

On the topic of autoflower yields, it is claimed by those who specialize in them, growing them all the time, that the best yields are achieved when transplanting is entirely avoided. The seed is sown directly into the pot they will finish in.

They claim that transplanting triggers them into premature flower. I can't speak from experience, though, as I've never grown autoflowers. It's not a problem if the goal is to restrict their height by flowering early, in a short tent not designed for growing a 4 ft tall plant.

If I were to grow an indoor autoflower, in a short tent, I would do it in 2 gal pots. Not sure if its root system could fill out a 3 gal pot, especially if it's being forced to flower early, by transplanting it. I would love to see the root-ball on GrowViper's when he harvests it.

Cheers! - FF

 

[Freedom_Fighter]

Am I missing something? I grow autos indoors, might be a learning moment

Ask away
/steve

Greetings GrowViper!

Next to security, the greatest benefit of indoor growing is the environmental control it provides, including when to flower. The thing about autos is that we have no control over when they flower; except if it's forcing them to flower prematurely by starting them in small pots & then up-potting.

If you want to delay autoflowering as long as possible, then it seems best to sow the seed directly in the pot they finish in. No transplanting. A 5 gal pot is definitely too big for an indoor auto. A 3 gal pot may possibly delay their flowering a little longer than a 2 gal pot.

Ii's speculated by some auto growers that once their roots make contact with the wall(s) of the pot, that will trigger premature flowering if it's a small pot. It is said that autos require less light intensity and less feeding than photos, which makes me think their root system wouldn't fill a 2 gal pot as quickly as a photo-flower would,

Personally I prefer to grow under real sunlight, but some strains I like can't finish outside here, and I don't have a greenhouse. So, indoor growing for me is just for those strains that won't finish outside here; or for starting outdoor plants early, that get moved outside at the end of May.

While autos can produce some killer pot, there is four things I don't like about them: 1. They're only available in the feminized form. I've never seen "regular" autoflower seeds. So, if you want to produce seed with them, you need to learn how to reverse a female, which I'm not into doing. 2. They can't be cloned. 3. They flower too quickly, so if something unexpected goes wrong during the veg period, you're basically screwed as you have little to no time to fix it before it starts to flower on you. That will reduce your yield. 4. They need to be flowered under 18-20 hrs of light, for a good yield. I've never heard of anyone using the 12ON-12OFF light cycle for flowering autos.

With the increasing cost of electricity these days, the thought of vegging & flowering autos under a constant 20 hr light cycle, from start to finish, is a deal breaker for me. The light cycle of a photo-flower is much more flexible. In a short tent like yours, you don't need to use the 18 hr light cycle for veg; but if you do use it, you only need to veg for 7-10 days, when growing from seed, before flipping them into flower.

A photo-flower will produce as much flower under 12 hrs of light as an autoflower will under 20 hrs of light. I have heard of growers who veg & flower cloned photos under a constant 12 hr light cycle. The plants will go directly into flower as soon as the root system has developed sufficiently enough, and collected enough root sugars.

If they want to extend the veg period, for any reason, like to fill out a scrog net, they just break the night cycle by having a small light turn on for an hour, in the middle of the night. So, the veg light cycle would be 12 hrs on, 5.5 hrs off, 1 hr on, 5.5 hrs off. As long as they get that 1 hr of light in the middle of their dark period, they won't flower.

Cheers! - FF

 

[CanaViper]

what smells are you getting from the flower tent? must be smelling pretty good right about now.

I’ll going have to revisit this topic a lot. It’s my most underdeveloped skill.
I find I don’t notice much of a smell most of the time unless I move them around which isn’t to often at this stsge.
4me the hardest part is the fact that I have to trust that I know what the smell it is, if that makes sense.
Another thing I am always doing is venting the bedroom out, drawing air from kitchen and living room, there’s 3 of us living in a relatively small apartment.

Mostly I smell the dank of the grow, earthly and plant material. I also noticed a lot of the time as soon as the light go off that smell grows.

The runts have a fruity smell, also lemon keeps coming to mind and it’s kinda a known smell, The lemon hints could be a common smell among multiple types. I get a very slight candy but not sure.
I sometimes get the sense of pepper, not always but it’s happened multiple times.

That’s my first ever attempt, not my last

Thanks for asking
/steve

 

[CanaViper]

Hi there Islandgrower

On the topic of autoflower yields, it is claimed by those who specialize in them, growing them all the time, that the best yields are achieved when transplanting is entirely avoided. The seed is sown directly into the pot they will finish in.

They claim that transplanting triggers them into premature flower. I can't speak from experience, though, as I've never grown autoflowers. It's not a problem if the goal is to restrict their height by flowering early, in a short tent not designed for growing a 4 ft tall plant.

If I were to grow an indoor autoflower, in a short tent, I would do it in 2 gal pots. Not sure if its root system could fill out a 3 gal pot, especially if it's being forced to flower early, by transplanting it. I would love to see the root-ball on GrowViper's when he harvests it.

Cheers! - FF

Hi FF, just a quick shout out, I've learned a bunch for the info you post, thanks...glad to hear from you.
Since I'm new I'd just like to say that i see and read these generalities spread around our ecosystem.
I like generalities, I like understanding context and have some opinions on this topic, my opinions are just that and come from my 5 seasons of growing auto's exclusively but it's bias is being an OG. So I'm commenting on the statements not commenting on any one individual.

I'm going to use this reply to address one thought that I have heard a bunch and my experience on that subject. I know that auto's is a tough sell in this group and I like that, but my experience give me a unique perspective and on the topic of up potting this is what i have learned.

I would agree with your statement above in general if I were flying at 10,000 feet and just taking to those "who specialize in them, growing them all the time" to me that means commercial growers. Coming from a strong operational background, why would you up pot , it doesn't make economic sense. The labor, cost in time and money plus introducing exposure to many more problems makes it a non starter. I just can't get by that one guardrail when i look at the context of the data.

I also have an opinion on autoflowers in general but i all give that when i answer your second post FF.
but I think I need to address this one point here,

Up potting with auto's - IMHO

I have seen 0 evidence in my 5 seasons, usually 3 plants per season i'll use 2 plants per season for this comment.
Thats 10 plants that all went thru 3 phases of up potting. 30 chances to see any issues that up potting if done correctly causes stress. Seeing no evidence in my grows drives my opinion.
Up potting is a tool nothing more, it has it's advantages and possible problems if not done right. I will go into why this tool has been essential in my 2x2 in my next post..

nuff said _~

Jiffy>Solo cup size bag>Last bag before airpots>AirPots

I used Promix HP with 5 gal growbags as my final pot till last season I tried coco in one bag. This season I found my sweet spot with coco and airpots. My method was to wait till some side root growth is happening except the jiffy pots i usually would up pot a few days after the tap root is showing. I didn't ;like the consistency of the jiffy so i also tried rockwool but the coco pucks so =far are great.

IMHO
/steve

PS: Again I'll quote Dr MJcoco on this. I use his style as my control and mod it to my situation but It's always served me well, so safe to say, I trust Dr MJcoco as a solid starting point on any journey.
I recommend reading his context, i also look at education and work experience to further qualify is opinions. He's Top Notch just like the breeders here.

As Ronald Reagan one said , which I don't agree with almost everything he's about, But love this line.....
"Trust but Verify"

Quote:
Transplanting cannabis plants is the best way to develop a healthy root mass and ensure vigorous early growth. Whether you are starting from seeds or clones, in soil or coco, plants will do best in appropriately sized containers. This is true for all cannabis plants. There is a persistent myth in the cannabis community that auto-flowers should be started in final containers. However, like virtually all other potted plants, I recommend transplanting auto-flowers too. Unlike the myth, which suggests that it slows plants down, transplanting is a ubiquitous horticultural practice because it speeds plants up and produces better root structure.

 

[CanaViper]

just a quick side note on up potting, If done right is the key in that statement...

If done right...

Just one more quote that i like...

Quote: DR MJcoco

Transplanting Cannabis Produces the Best Roots​

When plants grow in containers, their roots quickly seek the bottom and colonize primarily along the bottom of the container. Transplanting through a series of steps encourages roots to colonize the full volume of media.

You can think of potting-up through a transplant strategy as being a form of root training. At each step, the plant establishes a new zone of root density before potting-up. This creates a final container that has root density throughout the volume of the media rather than primarily at the bottom.
Small containers early in life encourage root ball formation and lead to greater density of roots throughout the plant’s life. Conversely, if a small plant grows in a large container it will send roots to the bottom. This leaves a huge vacant mass of medium with relatively few roots. As a result, the medium takes longer to dry and there is less oxygen available to the roots. The roots will not colonize the middle of the pot after they have grown past it. Therefore, starting plants in a large container effectively reduces the potential root area and the potential harvest.

Image from cocoforcannabis

 

[Freedom_Fighter]

Hey GrowViper,

Thanks for the interesting feedback. That's good to know. I had no idea Dr. MJC was teaching that, about autos.

To be honest, it's been a couple years since I spent any time taking a close look at autos; so your notes from Dr. MJC inspired me to take a bit of time today, to look at how the auto growing community has evolved over that time, and I was quite surprised to see how many growers today are actually promoting auto up-potting. It wasn't like that 3 years ago, that I can remember.

Jeff Lowenfells on the AutoFlowering Revolution

At the 5:14 point of this 4 yr old video, Lowenfels says that autos don't like being transplanted. He is the author of 5 books, 3 of which I have. One of the five is about cannabis autoflowers, which he has tracked from their beginning, 20+ years ago.

He was the first to really open my mind to the autoflower "revolution". In this video, he gives the distinct impression, to me, that they were created primarily for outdoor gardens; and for the gardener who isn't really into indoor gardening tech.

Here's a couple 420 Fast Buds videos, below, by Sebastian, their public rep. In both of them he discourages up-potting autos.

Fast Buds: 9 Mistakes To Avoid When Growing Autoflowering Cannabis

At the 3:01 point, of the above video, Fast Buds rep, Sebastian, says transplanting autos is a mistake; and advises sowing auto seed directly into the pot it will finish in.

Fast Buds Sebastián on the Best Pot & Container Size for Autoflowers

About 28 seconds into this second video, Seb says "the first important thing to keep in mind is to never repot an autoflower, because that can stunt their growth."

Cheers! - FF

 

[musashi]

Interesting stuff guys. Thanks!

 

[longball]

Ya won't know unless you try it. Lots of companies and genetics are all over the place. Lots of people speak of 'Auto's' as if there is just one type and one set of genetics. There is so much diversity it is unbelievable. Of course, with that much diversity there is some real shit and some really great stuff. One of the members here had his Auto he made lab tested at 24%. I just made some Auto seeds but won't be able to test them this year I don't think.

They also say do not top Auto's. One of the ones I topped, the buds got so big and heavy that they split the stem in half. I had to put it back together with gaff tape and bamboo shish-ka-bob stakes. It finished fine. Now that I think about it, that plant has been curing over 2 years now! I better go check it!!!

I have both up potted my Auto's and just put them straight into final containers. Nowadays I just put them straight into 5 gallons containers. The roots fill up the top, middle, bottom, some circling - good enough for me. I don't spend much time on them, they're mostly for the 'Autoflower Girls'. I spend all my time on my photoperiods. Luckily, my experience with Autoflowers has been 'no fuss, no muss', they pretty much just grow on their own. I only grow outdoors so it's pretty easy. They're all weeds. They know what to do out there.

Bobberr's lab test. https://mrnice.nl/forum/threads/hel...cannabis-i-love-old-school-haze-“piff”.17744/



Longball

 

[CanaViper]

Excellent commentary from everyone.

To me up potting is/was a necessity. To grow and create a system in my closet so the next generation can mature to main tent status right after harvesting the old ones .
Everyone knows the perpetual grow in some form.

It’s a tool. Now put me in a different situation like a room or house, I would question if up potting was worth the extra effort or my resources better served somewhere else.

At the most basic level I really don’t see the stress surrounding… taking a plant and putting it directly into a fresh dug hole then gently finishing the pot. It’s not like I'm digging something up or really disturbing the roots. I wonder the theory behind the warning

A few weeks ago I saw Scotty from dude grows YouTube channel and he has an even different perspective.

He plants directly into final pot.
His reasoning for not up potting is that he is growing a fast maturing plant (Auto) and he doesn’t need the more extensive roots that you get from up potting.

So if you’re not up potting do you plant the seed directly into final pot or do you use the up potting theory just for your sprout

As I heard somewhere
Keep it green
/steve

 

[Freedom_Fighter]

Ya won't know unless you try it.

True. I have to admit your Bruce Banner Auto has peaked my interest. It's probably one of the few autos that I'll try; outside. ACE Seeds has one as well that really appeals to me: Their Auto Malawi × N. Lights, to be exact.

One of the members here had his Auto he made lab tested at 24%.

I'm guessing it was the Bobber Berry? That's a very impressive Lab Analysis. Thanks for sharing it. Very interesting. Yes, the best autos today are producing some killer results. No doubt about it.

They also say do not top Auto's. One of the ones I topped, the buds got so big and heavy that they split the stem in half.

Very interesting. I can see the value of LST for autos, but topping it was a bold move, one that I probably wouldn't have done, as every day of an auto veg period counts, and it's possible to stall growth for 2-3 days by applying a high stress/ shock training technique to it. However, it sounds like it paid off in spades for you. That's good to know. Thanks!

I had to put it back together with gaff tape and bamboo shish-ka-bob stakes. It finished fine. Now that I think about it, that plant has been curing over 2 years now! I better go check it!!!

LMAO! She's about ready, I think. Probably the smoothest smoke you'll try this year. ENJOY!!

I have both up potted my Auto's and just put them straight into final containers. Nowadays I just put them straight into 5 gallons containers. The roots fill up the top, middle, bottom, some circling - good enough for me. I don't spend much time on them, they're mostly for the 'Autoflower Girls'.

Yes, 5 gal pots for an outdoor auto grow definitely make sense. My comments about the best pot size for an auto were intended strictly for an indoor grow set-up.

In one of the 2 videos by Fast Buds Sebastián, linked in my last comment, he says that rarely do indoor autos need a pot larger than 10-15 liters. 10 L = 2.27 US gal dry; 15 L = 3.41 US gal dry.

According to the Air-PotBros website, the #3 size, (which is 9.2 liter / 2.4 gal,) "will accommodate a 2' to 6' plant through vegetation and full growth." That sounds to me like a good fit for a short tent like GrowViper's.

Cheers! - FF

 

[longball]

So if you’re not up potting do you plant the seed directly into final pot or do you use the up potting theory just for your sprout

Autoflowers I soak a bit in H2O2 solution and then straight into soil in 5gal pot.
Photoperiods, same soak, then straight to soil and then something like 1gal, 3gal ,5gal. up pots. Whenever I put photoperiods straight to final pot they are the smallest plants. Up potting is great for photoperiods.
In both cases, top half of final container is a mild mix of potting soil, real soil, and perlite on top. Bottom half of container is the hot shit for when plant gets a little bigger. Like picture, pots are never filled to the top to allow for topdressings or to fix any problems that may arise. About 3rd or 4th week of flowering pots are filled to top. Outdoors is always slightly different than indoors.

Plants are indoors here. I have lights, etc. so plants go in or out depending on weather. The black containers on far left are going to(did) produce my F2 Autoflower seeds.





Longball

 

[longball]

Yes, 5 gal pots for an outdoor auto grow definitely make sense. My comments about the best pot size for an auto were intended strictly for an indoor grow set-up.

Yeah, I pretty much forget that I grow outdoors, no wait, I pretty much forget that most everyone grows indoors which causes a slight 'langauge barrier'. I am usually trying to get plants as big as possible while most are trying to keep as small as possible. Generally best to ignore any of my ideas or suggestions lol

Longball

 

[CanaViper]

Just to clarify LB, your up or not potting autos is because it’s a side hustle rather them your main focus.
Not any worries about the up potting process and you go even further by doing your best work by using up potting for best root systems. Nice

I have topped about 4 plants during my revival and one did trigger a stress reaction but the rest did what it was intended. I have had a few plants that LST wasn’t stopping the main stem and I had to start circling the pot, got to love it.

/steve

 

[Islandgrower]

Just to clarify LB, your up or not potting autos is because it’s a side hustle rather them your main focus.
Not any worries about the up potting process and you go even further by doing your best work by using up potting for best root systems. Nice

I have topped about 4 plants during my revival and one did trigger a stress reaction but the rest did what it was intended. I have had a few plants that LST wasn’t stopping the main stem and I had to start circling the pot, got to love it.

/steve

Uppotting does not force them to flower any earlier as far as I have seen . Some strains will flower after 28 days some wait until 45 . It is mostly strain dependent. 2 autos that I remember grew well sfor me were Amnesia and also auto Mazar. Both yielded very well for autos imo I got about 4.5 Oz of bud from each. With transplanting once.

 

[longball]

Uppotting has nothing to do with flowering at all. It is about roots. The bigger the roots, the bigger the fruits. Flowering is built into Autoflowers and there is absolutely nothing you can do to change that. Flowering time is strain dependent though. Slowly, autoflowers are taking longer and longer lol

Longball

 

[longball]

Just to clarify LB, your up or not potting autos is because it’s a side hustle rather them your main focus.

Yeah, I don't have the time, but, in the beginning I did up pot. The plants were always small and small yield. One day the breeder I get the seeds from comes by and WTF? He says 'no,no,no, straight to final pot!' He gets 4 foot autos and about a half pound each plant. He also spends a lot of time with them, begins LST when they are just a couple days old. I don't do anything, mostly give them to girls looking to learn to grow. They are very easy(the plants). Giving them away pays great dividends!

If you are trying to keep a couple dozen photoperiods picture perfect, you don't have time for Autoflowers other than to water them and hopefully give them away.

Picture perfect photoperiods.




Pride and Joy!


Longball