Are SSH, Jack Herer and Diesel the same thing?

F

flwrpwr

New member
Hi all, new here and have been really enjoying reading these great forums( and even getting to contact ShantiBaba for direct ordering advice!). I'm looking forward to putting in an order shortly and will probably go with MangoHaze or SSH.

I just came across the following quote by Nev:

"Super Silver Haze, Jack Herrer and Diesel are not different lineages, they are the same cutting!"

I'm not very knowledgeable on the genetics side of things and wondered if this means that SSH, JH and Diesel are all genetically identical plants, created originally by Neville and sold under those names by other breeders?


Thanks for any light you might be able to shed on this :)
 
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Hi flwr,
I think Nevils original words about says it all. As was pointed out previously, many of these "new" strains start to take on a life of their own, as we've seen in the past many times with varieties such as "OG Kush", Trainwreck, Sour Diesal etc. Where varieties such as NL x Sk originally, are given new names, but which pick up a reputation based on the original genetics. Soon the new strain, based on name alone, becomes many varieties, and the name starts to sell more so then the genetics themselves. This has happened many times in the past, where as in the '90s for example everything was called White Widow in order to move it faster. If it was quality herb, it was called Widow, regardless if it was actually a standard Sk hybrid with no relation to the original. This is the case with the more popular, yet newer lines of today. New names, same old genetics.
 
He didn't say anything about sour diesel just 'deisel' so he's most likely talking about Soma's New York Deisel which wouldn't be a surprise. Incidentally a few people have said trainwreck is in fact SSH but most are pretty sure OG Kush is not a renamed dutch strain as the lineage is well known.
 
Lurk McGurk said:
He didn't say anything about sour diesel just 'deisel' so he's most likely talking about Soma's New York Deisel which wouldn't be a surprise. Incidentally a few people have said trainwreck is in fact SSH but most are pretty sure OG Kush is not a renamed dutch strain as the lineage is well known.
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Hi Lurk,
Sour Diesel, much like with OG Kush, has become more of a name to push good cannabis, as opposed to a single variety or name used to define a specific set of genetics. There isnt just one sour diesel, nor is there just one OG Kush. And indeed OG Kush is a renamed Dutch strain, as are most of the strains on the market which are truly good. As Ive mentioned in the past, the first time I ever heard the term Diesel was in relation to Soma's NYCD, which would not surprise me in the least bit to be yet again another renamed Dutch variety.
 
Lurk McGurk said:
Whatever you say Jesse.
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Joke; you can lead a horse to water but can you make him drink?

Two dumb guys are driving through the desert and their car breaks down.
They walk and walk , until they reach a horse ranch and they talk to the rancher about buying a horse.
The Rancher does have horses for sale but the dumb guys only have $40, The Rancher says " look i can sell you this very old horse he's not going to live long because he's stopped drinking water, but he might get you into town if you can get him to drink there's a stream beyond those trees over there"
The dumb guys take the very old horse to the stream but he won't drink they hold his head down, the horse's lips on the cool running water.but it doesn't drink.
Then one of the dumb guys has an idea and says " if i hold his head down and you suck on his butthole it might cause enough suction he might start taking some water in"
The other dumb guy gets behind the horse lifts it's tail and starts sucking.
Amazingly the horse begins drinking. The dumb one holding his head says"it's working!!.....keep going!"
The dumb guy on the horse's rear starts coughing and spitting and yells " pull up his head he's sucking up mud!"

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081103090622AAwQbkS
 
Posting a joke about 2 dumb guys when someone disagrees ain't very nice, but.......

Back to the topic in question though, I'd like to know the answer to this too as it's a bold statement from Nev,considering they're 3 of the top strains in their class that I've had the pleasure to smoke.

I've smoked all 3 strains on numerous occasions and have grown Soma's NYCD, which is a cross of sour diesel from NYC crossed to a afghan/hawaiian male given to soma by Shanti.

I guess they're similar in highs,to an extent, but wouldn't of thought they were the same stock, maybe I'm wrong though so would love to hear Nev elaborate on things a bit, I guess he's smoked the 3 of them at some stage.
Peace, GG
 
ahahahahaha thats a cracker m8 ,i love a jolly jape

btw its the joke im laughing at

good on you and yours fella's
 
i think its a great thread

with a very valid question ,this has been of topic lately at ic and here at mns


this was my last post to neville referring to the topic when kylebroflovski brought this up ,in searching for all landrace and old school strains thread

on topic of the diesel
as for the reference of the diesel/jh/ssh being the same cut ,it has caused som cunfusion is true ,especially at IC

id lov to kno exactly wat you refer to wen you said diesel

the deez that circulates that is the talk of the town ,i dont believe is wat you were referring to aka as chemdog ,sour deez is not the same as deez which people hav thought you implied ,IME/IMO deez has nothin to do wit any haze genteics wat soo ever ,the hawaiian indica and nl is thought to be part of the SD lineage thats the only connection i could make

i understand the A5 diesel pheno was prob the first strain to ever carry this name in the mid to late 80's ,i though this might be wat you meant but JH/SSH dont han haze A in their lineage ,soo it dont really make sense


another thought at the time of the discussion is ,how or why is it the same cutting ,why would you use the same cut from 95 and rename it in 97 ?

and how is it the same cut if shanti reports the selection with the thousands of plants you did for SSH and he did for MH if it was the same cutting renamed?
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i understand nev is busy but this is wat a big statement ,that we would all love to know specifics on

genegenie

thankyou for sharing your experience ,as we both agree on this

also again to note

the chemdawg line is not dutch genetics ,there is a specific line sour diesel as there is a specific og kush but i agree the name is bastardized an there are countless fakes n copies

also its clear that soma's nycd was not the first strain to carry the name ,as diesel was the first popular which is chemdawg renamed in NYC then sour diesel came before his verison ,but i think its fair to say that the reported diesel pheno of A5 might have been the first to carry this name

1luvbigherb
 
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Hi all,
For those of you who may not be familiar with the oral history of "Diesel", below are some links for everyone to to brief themselves on.

http://forum.grasscity.com/seed-banks/173768-diesel-chem-dawg-history-hybrids.html

http://www.weed-forums.com/showthread.php?t=12172

https://www.greenpassion.org/index.php?/topic/9017-history-of-the-chemdawg-family/

All of these stories seem to share similarities, does anyone have any information which differs from these three different sources? If so, please feel free to post them on the forum.
 
I would rather have the SSH or JH any day. The Diesel is very meh at best. I like pot that gets me higher after the first hit. The SSH and JH have something more than flavor which diesel does not. I do not think that SSH, JH, and Diesel are the same thing at all.
 
Sensimilla13 said:
One thing I have been curious about Nevil's statement is that how can the seeds that one might buy (ssh, JH & diesel) be the from same exact clone? Unless I missed something, wouldn't an addition plant (most likely a male) have to be introduced and crossed to a common cut (SSH or JH) to produce seed.

So, JH and SSH seem like they could come from the same lineage...and it seems likely to me that many others descended from these two.

An interesting comparison between ssh and jh to me is that the phenotypes from the 1990's JH look nothing like the SSH phenos I have seen (haven't grown SSH yet). I was fortunate enough to have been able to grow four distinct JH phenos many years ago and none resemble any SSH phenos I have seen. Perhaps ssh is a more stabilized and selected version from the same parents nev used for JH. However, I don't know if SSH and JH descend from the same parents.

I don't know and this is all speculation based on my observation.

Still, any explanation of how they are all the exact same cut would be great...

Cheers all

Can anyone explain this fundamental discrepancy?

Thanks,

Sensi13
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One thing I have been curious about Nevil's statement is that how can the seeds that one might buy (ssh, JH & diesel) be the from same exact clone? Unless I missed something, wouldn't an addition plant (most likely a male) have to be introduced and crossed to a common cut (SSH or JH) to produce seed
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this is wat ive pondered on ,but if it was a select clone the info shanti has given dosnt seem to coincide

below i quotes i believe from shanti

SSH is just one of those seed F1s that you are guaranteed of finding something great in every packet. Of course it is a small sample but you should have no problems. Consider this, to find the SSH female parent it took Nev over 1000 seeds flowered out over several years. Then doing the progeny test, which ultimately is the only true test of breeding, took alot of us several attempts to be sure the selection was true . This strain has had alot of breeding work over alot of years and it is not for no reason that it is so close to so many people worldwide.”




“The reason I went on with MH and Nev went on with the SSH was personal taste differences. The majority of people we gave both to taste initially went for the SSH and therefore it was named and its history is written. But my choice was MH and for any of you who manage to find a great mum keep her well as I believe you will not find a better example of such a sweet smelling, cerebral effecting plant.”



SSH is made up of Haze C combined to Skunk 1 or Skunk HzC which is the male side, the female side is Haze C combined to NL5 or NL5HzC
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1luvbigherb
 
from what I understand Nev meant that the JackHerrer , SSH , Diesel buds/samples entered in competitions that won cups are from same female cutting. A selected SK1HzC x NL5HzC female plant.
SSH is SK1HzC x NL5HzC. But I cant say if the JH seeds offered by sensi are same thing as SSH.
 
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Either Sensi directors authorised the release of the plant produced from a mating I had made prior to ending up in jail in 1990, or a person in a position of trust made private arrangements. The mating was NL5xHzC X SK1xHzC.
Sensi won a cup with this cutting. It was called "Jack Herer". The J.H. line of seeds had this plant as a mother.
Green House also won with this plant at the Cups. It was called Super Silver Haze. As GH never had this cutting, who knows what they are calling SSH.
In the '90s, a variety known as Diesel was making a name for itself. When I smoked it I knew instantly that this was exactly the same plant and they had a cutting. The early Diesel line of seeds would also have used this plant as a mother.
All 3 lines were made with different fathers at least and this was 20 years ago. One would assume that successive generations would all go in their own unique directions, presumably giving rise to any distinct differences today. The names have remained the same and all 3 lines gained their credibility from the exceptional qualities of the original cutting NL5HzC x SK1HzC.
N.
 
L33t said:
from what I understand Nev meant that the JackHerrer , SSH , Diesel buds/samples entered in competitions that won cups are from same female cutting. A selected SK1HzC x NL5HzC female plant.
SSH is SK1HzC x NL5HzC. But I cant say if the JH seeds offered by sensi are same thing as SSH.
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sup unc

much respect always

Super Silver Haze, Jack Herrer and Diesel are not different lineages, they are the same cutting!
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above is the exact quote

what is confusing especially is the diesel reference

what diesel ?,again because IME deez has nothin to do wit haze

also i understand its your observation or opinion but wat competetion might you be referring to ?

i dont believe diesel aka chemdawg has ever been entered in the CC ,posssibly hybrids of chem og18/ headband and yes nycd but their to different dogs


SSH is SK1HzC x NL5HzC. But I cant say if the JH seeds offered by sensi are same thing as SSH
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as me and sensi have said ,soo their must be a male to hav made the SSH seeds stock

also how about shanti's post of the selection of 1000 seeds to find the female,how is that if it was a cutting ?


id like to hear nevilles thoughts on this

1luvbigherb
 
hi bigherb

things are simple:
MNS SSH is NL5HzC crossed to SK1HzC (: NL5xHzC X SK1HzC)

The original JackHerer cutting was a selected NL5xHzC X SK1HzC female plant so you can say that the JH (original female plant) was basically a selected SSH female if you will..
The JH Sensi Seeds seed version used that selected female plant as the mother..i cant say any info on the dad.

Btw I m not sure what diesel versions I ve smoked exactly but I did notice there were similarities in some versions I tried with some SSH phenos I had from MNS seed. The fuel like smell was very similar.
 
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L33t said:
hi bigherb

things are simple:

MNS SSH is NL5HzC crossed to SK1HzC (: NL5xHzC X SK1HzC)

The original JackHerer cutting was a selected NL5xHzC X SK1HzC female plant so you can say that the JH (original female plant) was basically a selected SSH female if you will..

The JH Sensi Seeds seed version used that selected female plant as the mother..i cant say any info on the dad.

Btw I m not sure what diesel versions I ve smoked exactly but I did notice there were similarities in some versions I tried with some SSH phenos I had from MNS seed. The fuel like smell was very similar.
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things are simple:
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id like to say life is wat we make it

but simple not soo

All 3 lines were made with different fathers at least and this was 20 years ago
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shanti's info is different from wat nev just told soo i hope you can understand why many of us including myself were pondering on the statement

as ive said
their must be a male to hav made the SSH seeds stock
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Btw I m not sure what diesel versions I ve smoked exactly but I did notice there were similarities in some versions I tried with some SSH phenos I had from MNS seed. The fuel like smell was very similar
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IME ive only smelled fuel in my nevs but havnt grown enough mns haze hybrids to hav a final or through conclusion but IME with haze ive grown up on no comparison at all ,as for the smell in ssh did it come threw in the taste ,if i rcall did you also experience fuel in a la nina pheno was this also just smell or taste ?

caz true deez is a hard fuel taste that lingers along wit lime skittles and skunk

as far as the CS deez selections or kush i was there for the last cup and nothin was even close that was offed to a true sour deez or kush we smoke in ny ,IME the only hybrid that i believe to contain SD is DNA sourcream



neville

your info is truly appreciated ,it is now very clear why you made that statement


1luvbigherb
 
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The owner of a seed co. in Amsterdam in the '90s was the first person I knew of who was using the name Diesel and THAT plant was NL5HzCxSK1HzC. What people have been calling Diesel since then, I don't know anything about. If you want to know who that was, do your homework.
i dont believe diesel aka chemdawg has ever been entered in the CC ,posssibly hybrids of chem og18/ headband and yes nycd but their to different dogs
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"diesel aka chemdawg" It's your assumption that Chemdawg is Diesel, not mine.

People lie about ancestries re-name plants and steal names and you want me to account for this?
I don't think that I could have been clearer about what I believe. If it doesn't coincide with what others are saying, maybe we are talking about different plants/lines, but I know what I know and you can choose to believe what you want.

My guess is that some one with a vested interest (not me) is upset that their version of events (usually a lie to support their inflated ego's) is contradicted by my statements. I have no idea who and I don't care.

I have worked with this cutting extensively. I have passed on to SB the genetics and information I had on how to get the most out of this line. My bet is that what he has given you will shit all over anyone elses work. Be your own judge.
N.
 
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