All About Genes

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Shanti and company,

I have a question, and I'd appreciate any input. Food for thought...

Hermaphrodism is within all cannabis genetics, is it not? Each and every strain has the potential to produce male flowers, does it not? This could not be possible unless the gene was already imbedded within the strain, right?

I ask this because I've also read that, through time and patience, hermaphrodism can actually be bred out of a strain. Is this true? I use examples like DJ Shorts Blueberry (Thai genetics) and Soma's initial crosses which produced several of his lines. Both breeders chose to work with genetics that are admittedly hermaphroditic...it would seem to go against accepted practice...so I am a bit confused.

I feel like there's something I'm missing...:o

Any thoughts on this are welcome! Talk to ya...jay:)
 
When breeders start with a strain that has an undesirable trait (low yield, bad smell, hermi prone), they can select for plants that don't exhibit these traits, making the likelihood of the trait being passed to the offspring lesser. That is not to say that the offspring will not have 'the gene' that triggers the unwanted trait. Even if breeders select away from 'expressed' traits, the genetics of the offspring ARE made up of the genetics of the parents. So if the parents had the possibility of expressing the unwanted trait, than so will the offspring. By selecting parents that don't express the trait, you will lower the likelihood that the offspring will express them, but not necessarily eliminate the gene from the offspring's DNA. Ex: Sam the Skunkman stopped working with durban poison, because the hermie trait could not be bred out.

IMHO, the hermi (intersex, really) trait is WELL embedded in the MJ plants. Millions of years of evolution/natural selection can't be totally reversed by 30-300 years of 'breeder selection'. It would take a mutation within a given plant, wherein the genetic code to throw nanners (under stress) either is not present, or can not be accessed/activated. A breeder would have to breed prospective parent stock WITH a known quantity hermi to see if the (possible) parents could suppress the expression of 'hermi' on the offspring.

LOL, they ALL herm if you fukk with em! It is just a matter of how easily they will push nanners. I have yet to see a banana on a Shit plant or Shit cross, but just about every sativa dom I run will throw an occasional (or more...) nanner, due to a stress I place on them in an indoor grow. Just growing with a stationary parking lot lamp is stressful to a plant. If I put a sick/weak plant from bloom-boom into the summer sun, it gets better QUICK.

IME, indoor nanners are caused by (in the order of ease to induce them):
Light leaks/fukking with the light schedule
Temp fluctuations/extremes
Nute overdoses
compacted/wet soil

I have only grown a few plants that were hell bent on throwing nanners, even under 'great indoor conditions' (oxymoron, lol). THSeeds Honeymoon (1 for 1), DNA Martian Mean Green (3 for 4 seeded themselves with hidden nanners, and it was a shame, cause the non hermie was one of the best plants I've grown). This winter, I had essentially POOR growing conditions, and most of my plants cut their metabolism (eating, drinking, growing, yielding) by 50-70%, and the plants that were throwing nanners were the most sativa doms.

By the time you breed a negative trait out to the point where the gene is present in less than 3.125% of the offspring, you are 5 generations from the original parent stock (otherwise desirable parent, mated to a stable plant that does not exhibit the undesired trait). There are still more reports of hermies than normal in hybrids made from landraces like Thai and Durban, but the positive qualities that they pass is worth the certain % of 'bad' plants to some people.

I'm real high :D
 
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Thanks Patrick...so sorry to hear about Mean Martian Green...I had such high hopes for that strain...I wish more of Soma's G13 seeds had sprouted, so that we might all have a better representation of the original gene pool...

Speaking of which...would you say that strains that lean more towards hermaphrodism are, by default, less worked lines, and that they necessarily represent a greater genetic diversity because that gene is still prevalent? If this is true, the chances of finding something special within a given strain must be greater in strains that are unstable, right?

I'm just trying to compare my chances of finding a gem within any given strain...am I looking for less stable genetics if I'm looking to breed something special?

I've also read that selfed seeds don't necessarily exhibit parental traits. I find this hard to believe. If a plant seeds itself then I don't see how that seed would not contain a similiar, if not identical, genetic code. Mutations aside, most selfed seeds should theoretically "clone" the original mother...right?
 
Selfed seeds are genetically an inbreeding within that line. A true, polar F1 that is femm'd to it's self is an F2. The genes posessed by both parents are identical, but there is no way to determine which will be passed/expressed in the offspring. A True f1 will display ONLY dominant genes. The recessives can be found through inbreeding.

I don't really know about 'less worked' or not, but I HATE hermies. I make seed all the time, and I'm waiting for the day when a hermie fukks up a batch of my seed (either the mom herms, or a plant nearby). I will prolly curse at a plant, lol.

I would say that if you are looking to 'hobby breed' - that is, you won't have access to at least 200sq ft for flowering/selecting females, and a separate, sealed male veg and flower setup - than just start with plants that have a high % of gem's in them. MrN is a good place to start :D The crosses that I've done with MrN plants (have yet to 'work/select' from ANY line) have been killer. No mutants, or hermies, or weak smoking plants.

BTW, I had a few seeds (and a KILLER female) that used that 'soma' plant on the male side. They were his pollen on an ogkush cut. I fukked around and ended up with 1 healthy male plant from the last of my seeds, and I crossed him to everything. Any of my plants that have 'dude' in the name are fathered by him (ogk x g13/Hz). So far I've grown ~4-5 plants that he fathered, and they were not as good as the plants that my STINKY ASS HAZY ASS ssh male fathered. :D

I would advise you to look for the LEAST hermi prone plants to breed with. I would never consider using the MMG's (or honeymoon) in ANY crosses that I do, because I would hate for a whole seedrun or room of a certain few cuts to go hermie on me. That's a waste of month$ and hundred$ whether or not I'm doing my 'hobby breeding'. Plus it will be VERY difficult to make your seeds/plants desirable to other people if you are breeding with herm's/fem's...
 
Personally, I would never select plants with herm tendencies, and I don't know anyone that would. I've just always wondered why top breeders would choose to work with such genetics. But like you said...some strains are worth it, most are not...

I am looking at several MNS lines. Tops on the list is the afghan haze, thanks to Scorpion. I'm interested to see just how chocolatey she gets in the F2s and so on...thinkin I will eventually cross it with Spice, once I've isolated the Haziest tastiest version of her...I think that cross will be quite promising...what do you think?:D

Thanks for all your thoughts...jay
 
I think I just dropped 20 spice x ssh, and would have a pack of afghan haze if I had the dough. That and B.Widow are the 2 strains that I REALLY want, but funds are tight. :D
 
Funds are tight, my friend...I agree...

I assume you crossed your best spicegirl :) with that hazey ssh male...well done! I was thinking more along the lines of crossing a sexy, hazy af/hz with a studly spice or two, depending on what I find...what do you think?...your Super Spice sounds yummy!!! :D
 
Nah, I ended up with 3 plants out of a pack, 1 died ~10 days above dirt on a teardown, the other 2 were sprouted ~10 days later. 1 was a great plant, and 1 was weak. They both turned out to be female, but only one was ready for pollen when the 1 male of the 4 ssh's I was running was drizzling. It was just 'luck of the draw' that the mom turned out to be a great plant, and the father turned out to 'appear' hazier than any of the females I've run, and he has fathered some awesome children; by the spice, and a few ssh f2's that were FUEGO.

The first 5 females that grew are in a thread in the Spice sub-forum. I just peeked at the seeds, and there looks to be life in most of em, and 2 or 3 have lil tails (~24 hrs).

I'm pumped about the testers, cause there are 2 on the list with an Af/Hz daddy. I'd love to see the differences in that 50% haze daddy, and the one that I tripped over (ssh).
 
It's good to hear that even with a limited selection, it is still very possible to get killer crosses. That, more than anything else, is a testament to the quality of the genetics that Shanti is using...very impressive...very :cool:

That af/hz dad has gotta be bomb! I've been looking for info on him, but to no avail. I have absolutely no doubt that he's a champ...Shanti, if you're reading this, how killer is he? What's his story? Any pics? Inquiring minds want to know! :)

Also...if I had say...3 packs of af/hz...what do you think the chances of finding a killer male/female would be? Anyone? :D

For me, the mango haze x afghan haze looks incredible! My gut tells me the flavors out of this cross are going to be something along the lines of chocolope, but with more kick to her. Chocolatey, mangoey, hazey goodness...Shanti may have to enter that one in the next cup...if Arjan doesn't beat him to it first via another grower!!!:eek:
 
Ive read and found myself that LAND RACE varietys will always have the hermie gene amongst it, remember these are not hybrids or cross's im talking about, land race strains like sensi's Afghan number 1 for example,

Sensi seeds reckon theres nothing that can be done to stop it occouring now and then, so out of one pkt of seeds you might get one or two hermie plants amongst them,

other pure land race strains can and will eventually have the same hermie trait amongst them also, alot of breeders might think theve fucked up along the line somewhere but of course this is not the case and rather the gene pool,

perhaps these genes can be breed out over time nowdays,? things have come along way with regards to selective breeding.
 
IBL vs. LANDRACE

BAMBI...interesting read...I thought Afghani #1 was an IBL...can a strain be both? I would think that an IBL would, at some point, no longer retain those landrace qualities that made it as unique in the first place. I tend to think that IBLs have a more "selective" gene pool than landraces, theoretically making them two different plants altogether, right?

IBL : Abbreviation for In Bred Line and refers to a strain that is stable for the vast majority of its traits and will breed true in the offspring.

LANDRACE : A population of plants, commonly found in the wild, with some manmade influences suggesting cultivation in its lineage, even though it may not grow wild.

Requesting enlightenment :o ...jay
 
jaybutta said:
Shanti and company,

I have a question, and I'd appreciate any input. Food for thought...

Hermaphrodism is within all cannabis genetics, is it not? Each and every strain has the potential to produce male flowers, does it not? This could not be possible unless the gene was already imbedded within the strain, right?

I ask this because I've also read that, through time and patience, hermaphrodism can actually be bred out of a strain. Is this true? I use examples like DJ Shorts Blueberry (Thai genetics) and Soma's initial crosses which produced several of his lines. Both breeders chose to work with genetics that are admittedly hermaphroditic...it would seem to go against accepted practice...so I am a bit confused.

I feel like there's something I'm missing...:o

Any thoughts on this are welcome! Talk to ya...jay:)
Click to expand...


Hi all i diont know why people think thia genetics are all hermies thats far from facts and i had told sam this at icmag.

Fact is all the pure sativas i have ever grown threw the years never ever showed hermie traits after they were sexed as a female EVER the only time i saw hermies show was at sexing.

With pure sativas you will find males females and hermies at the time of sexing once there sexed they will stay female or male.

The only time i ever saw a female plant ever show male flowers late in flowering was in afgani lines and that was very late in flower.

The only time i ever saw female plants show male flowers in erly to mid flower was from seeds from urope basicly hybrids first time i ever saw this happen not all but some.

I rember reading DJs post at icmag to be honest i was very suprised when i read he was growing out hermieing thia fems and picking off the male flowers that to me is not a way one should start on a breeding project.


If all wild cannabis is hermi prone all cannabis would be also that is just not fact.

Cannabis has a triga for self preservation and a female plant growing out doors can produce a single seed what is the triga on each line i dont know maybe thats why some afi lines iv seen in late flower throw a few nanas late in flower.

I think the modern lines hybrids that tend to throw nannas threw mid flower are a resolt of plants being used that have been stresst some were down the track.

I dont know what line of durbon sam was useing then gave up on i rember nevile sold a durbon poison line mate brang back in 85 or 87 that we grew and tryed the smoke was nice not overly potent tho but was nice and that line never threw any nanas.
 
Hi All

as far as both Nev and myself feel about this subject ...well, we play god and kill anything with the hermie tendency grown under normal conditions. The value in growing or breeding with a hermie plant in my opinion is most undesirable...unless you like to experiment on feminizing. The reason you do not find hermies in MNS strains is down to the fact of selection. We have throughout the generations erradicated them from the gene pool as predominantly as possible. Reducing the tendency is the best that can be achieved as we do not manipulate DNA...and it is always good to know a plant keeps this rather reduced tendency to be able to save itself in the case that no males eventuate in a natural situation.

There is a lot of reading material on this subject so if you really wish to learn about it I suggest doing that for grain crops.

Wild land races have a higher chance of hermaphrodites due to the nature of wild pollination. However Thai plants do not all go this way at all. Those who need to pick off male flowers or choose to use this trait for working with, should be reprimanded and questioned as breeders. I would like to see those links and hear why they felt it necessary or not a negative process?

All the best Sb
 
hi all

hi hempy & shanti,

I agree its good to try and eliminate hermaphroditic tendencies as much as possible but I would like to comment on DJ Short as a breeder. He is one of the very few professional breeders I respect and he takes his work seriously. Has created quite few special lines 'from scratch' over the last decades..including the famous Blueberry. He has worked a lot and still works with landrace genetics like Thais and likes to select from 1000+ plants . He has over 35 years of breeding experience and has also published many great articles on growing and breeding. He is quite open about his breeding and has shared his experiences while working with his lines with the public..btw I 've grown one line from him , 'Flo' , and found it to have some very nice qualities , quite unique strain and quite different than most hybrids I have to say..I have smoked other DJShort's lines as well and all were quite nice. For the record I would like to state that Flo didn't show any hermi issues when I grew it.
I may not agree with all of DJShort's breeding practices or find all of his lines to be excellent but he is a knowledgeable and capable breeder and deserves credit , he's definitelly not from those 'closet hack breeders' that seem to be everywhere today. Regarding hermi traits here is what DJ has posted in one of his many other articles:
''Please remember, my number one goal when breeding fine herb is that of the finished product.''...
...''My secondary concern is the minimization and elimination of hermaphrodites. ...''
Now I don't know what exactly DJ Short was saying in that post/article that hempy refers to , but this is a part from an article below that I believe it may be the one hempy refers to. If so , DJ was not talking about breeding with those plants , these were for sensi bud production in the late 70's.
DJ Short said:
...
Past Selection Processes Review
Originally, in the late 1970's, I was growing up to 100 plants at a time using over 1000 watts of light, and also outdoors in a backyard garden space. These were all land race sativa that fortunately cloned well. The ratio of highly desirable individuals from these plants was about 1:100. One of the most annoying traits of these varieties was hermaphroditism. Approximately 60% of all of these plants from seed were unmanageable hermis, and about 25% more were what I referred to as manageable hermaphrodites, meaning that with close observation and intense scrutiny the male pods could be seen and eliminated as they appeared. About 15% of these sativa plants were female enough to produce marketable sinsimilla bud, with a constant vigilance toward the occasional stray pollen sack. In other words the hermaphroditism expressed in these equatorial sativa was extreme and nearly total.

A quick word about the virtues of hermaphrodites: Ask any old-time herbalist, one who has been experiencing fine herb since at least the early 1970's, what their favorite all-time herbal variety was, and the answer will be something to the effect of; “Santa Marta or Acapulco Gold” or “Highland or Chocolate Thai” or “Punta Roya (red-tipped gold Highland Oaxacan)” or “Guerran Green” or “Panama Red” etc. et. al., all of which were equatorial, or sub-tropical, origin sativa and hermaphroditic. Even the great hashish of the era such as Lebanese Red and Blonde, all Moroccan and Nepalese were produced from seeded stock.

This is not so much in praise of the hermaphrodite as it is a suggestion in regard to the cannabinoid profile of seeded verses non-seeded herb. It has been my experience that the cannabinoid profile of seeded herb produces a wider range of effect than from non-seeded, or sinsimilla, herb. The equatorial environment also probably contributed to a wider range of cannabinoids. One of the aspects of the equatorial environment is its consistent day/night temperature range, there is little difference between day and night temps on the equator supposedly inspiring a wider cannabinoid profile. Couple this with the seeded cannabinoid profile and it becomes easy to understand the popularity of the equatorial produced sativa, despite its hermaphroditic problems. I am curios as to what future research in this capacity may provide.

Once the indica was introduced into the mix the hermaphrodite “problem” became controllable. It only takes a few zero-tolerance generations indoors to fully eliminate hermaphroditic tendencies. As a matter of fact, this, coupled with shortening the flowering cycle, became the first main concerns of the indoor or commercial horticulturist. This unbalanced focus may be the strongest contributing factor to the “blandness” of much of the herb to follow. The author “R” did a cover piece for High Times magazine in the mid-1980's calling for a “Ban the Bud” campaign, against the indica onslought, due to how bad and bland the quality of some herb was becoming then. I remember the times clearly.
...
Click to expand...
full article link:http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f10/my-cataloguing-system-dj-short-2004-a-75/#post216
(Many of DJ Short's articles on breeding can be found over THCfarm site , Texas Kid has posted lots of them there.)

Btw I was would love to hear what you guys think about what DJ says that seeded plants produce a wider range of effect compared to non-seeded plants.
 
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DJ Short's Blueberry

"Different breeders have different standards as to what qualifies as a P1. I have very high standards for my P1 generation. For me, the P1 must be either a fully acclimated, region-of-origin land-race variety, or no more than one generation removed, and crossed with itself or another highly similar, region-of-origin land-race variety."

"I used three P1 strains to breed Blueberry, Flo and others. They were the Highland Thai (also called Juicy Fruit Thai, a first-generation Thai seed grown in the Pacific Northwest); a cross called Purple Thai which was a first generation land-race Chocolate Thai crossed once with a first generation land-race Highland Oaxaca Gold; and an Afghani Indica which came to me one generation removed from Afghanistan via the California/Southern Oregon growing community."

"The Highland Thai was a joy to grow and behold, despite its hermaphroditism. This plant grew fast, filling in any empty spaces with lush, green growth. It was a very slow finisher, 12 to 16 weeks and beyond in the bud period for most. It had the longest and skinniest leaves out of all the plants I have worked with. Thick side-branching is another characteristic of this variety."

"The finished product from the Highland Thai was an all-around champion herb. Though difficult to trim and cure, the outcome was fully worth the effort. It was a powerful, long-lasting and exquisitely flavoured herb with little or no ceiling. The high could last up to seven hours! The flavour, aroma and taste were a totally sweet tropical punch ? tutti-fruity all the way."

"The Purple Thai was the other sativa in my repertoire. This was a first generation cross between the Highland Oaxaca Gold and the Chocolate Thai. This cross grew medium/tall and was very symmetric in structure. The side branches were shorter and, if left alone (untopped) the main stalk (meristem) remained the dominant shoot."

"The Afghani Indica plant is short with large, wide leaves, stout and thick-stemmed. It has early to very early maturation, producing large, dense buds that smell earthen to skunk, with a strong smoke that is generally sedative or "down" in effect. Though consistent in its growth and overall effect, its appeal is somewhat limited in my opinion. The sinsemilla Afghani Indica first showed up on the market in 1979. They were huge, green, stinky, sticky, dense buds of potent, pungent herb that smelled like a skunk and produced a narcotic-knockout stone that was tremendously novel, when compared to all the sativas that had come before."

"Such were the three main P1's I used for my breeding lines."

For the full article, go to: www.cannabisculture.com/articles/1511.html

I'm just warmin up...jay:)
 
The Thai

"Just as with Colombian varieties, the Highland Thai is more cerebral and heady...among the absolute sweetest and fruitiest herb on the planet."

"I think that Highland Thai is one of the gene donors in the creation of the Haze varieties. It was one of the finest Sativa plants grown at 45 degrees N, or indoors. Highland Thai is the progenator of Juicy Fruit. Juicy Fruit Thai was one of the original P1's of my breed stock. It grew fast, long and very unevenly."

"The primary drawback to the Highland Thai, after it's leafiness, was its hermaphroditism. Though few seeds were found, and plants grown from the seed produced only minor quantities of seed, all of the product was hermaphroditic--some more than others, meaning some less than others. Also, many of the male flowers were sterile on some of the plants, or on certain parts of certain plants. These factors had profound implications for breeders."

"Out of all of the varieties that I have worked with, Highland Thai produced some of the most powerful herb. It was purely cerebral, mentally devastating and had absolutely no ceiling...the experience was enjoyable, entertaining and educational at the same time. The aroma was supersweet fruit--a tropical punch!"

"The Chocolate Thai was another being. The imported bud had a long lasting dreamy/sleepy, narcotic high. The aroma possessed a deep, rich, chocolate, nutty, woody/spicy appeal--almost "roasted". The seeds were unique in being small, round and dark, many pure black. They were few in numbers and only a few would sprout. The few plants that did survive were terribly difficult to grow and all were hermaphroditic...This strain was successfully crossed with the Oaxaca Highland to create what came to be known as 'Purple Thai'."

"Oaxaca Highland Gold...was some of my all-time favorite herb. The aroma and flavor were super-spicy cedar incense with a slight fermented berry taste. It was very comfortable yet powerfully psychedelic pot."

"The plants from the seeds of the Oaxaca Highland Gold were nearly pure Sativa...The finished product...was a very sweet/spicy herb of the highest quality, with a hint of fruity/pine aroma. The seeds for this variety were small, dark and round. The plants were slightly hermaphroditic and required surveillance to maintain seedlessness."

Shanti...much respect due...very nice to finally "meet" you...I am humbled!!!:o
I've wondered about all this for quite some time. It really is nice to be able to "chat" with one of the greats about this...so thank you! :D

Hempy...thank you for responding...I very much value your input...I've read many of your posts over the past few months...I look forward to hearing what you have to say about all this...

L33t...I hope you know I'm not trying to disrespect DJ Short (or Soma for that matter)...not at all...but there seems to be a clear contradiction going on here, don't you agree? I guess, as a future breeder, I'm wondering why we shouldn't use hermaphrodites in our crosses...especially if they can produce higher quality finished product. I believe DJ Short's work speaks for itself! ;)

Thank you all again for your thoughts...talk to ya...jay :)
 
I'm wondering why we shouldn't use hermaphrodites in our crosses...especially if they can produce higher quality finished product.
Click to expand...
Each breeder's priorities are different. Apparently, DJ has a tolerance for a hermi if it is a special smoking plant. I would NEVER keep such a plant around, nor use it in breeding. I found my first full blown hermi the other day, and it was like some one let the air outta my baloon. I had to kill a perfectly good weedplant due to a genetic 'abnormality'.

If someone told me that 50% of the 'female' plants in a pack would be 'special smoke', but 10% of all of the plants would be hermi, I would pass on the seeds EVERY time. If I ran 2-5 plants at a clip, I may mess with them, but I can't let 1 plant ruin 50 others.

Mental masturbation question...:D
Would you rather a pack with 50% special plants and 10% herms, or a pack with 30% special plants and 1% herms? If you ever favor the beans with the higher % of herms, at what point does the risk of a seeded crop (destroy's any seeds you WERE working on in the room that run...) become too great to mess with the plants?

I just can't see justifying using known intersexed plants to breed with. I don't care HOW good the weed is if I CAN'T grow it w/o seeds.
 
PatrickStar,

I agree each person has different priorities..Personally I care for the quality of the end product, esp the profile of the high. I like to see things more from a smokers perspective when it comes to choosing strains. Fastness/yield etc etc are not my prime concerns at least when growing indoors.

Now regarding hermis, well I believe the lines that DJ was taliking about that had such probs were lines he worked personally with and he enjoyed very much smoking.
...But hybrid lines that DJ released to the public for sale didn't show any hermi traits when grown under normal conditions. I haven't seen people reporting hermi problems with DJs sold lines.

Some of the plants that were used in the making of certain strains might have showed hermi tendencies , but during the breeding process (when other lines where introduced) the hermi tendencies were eliminated as he explains:
DJ Short said:
Once the indica was introduced into the mix the hermaphrodite “problem” became controllable. It only takes a few zero-tolerance generations indoors to fully eliminate hermaphroditic tendencies.
Click to expand...


jaybutta,

No one suggested that hermaphrodite lines produce better quality finished product !
If you read carefully Dj's quotes , you ll see he says that he believes that seeded plants produce different range of effects compared to non seeded plants.

The reason one wouldn't want to use hermi plants is simple..no one wants to have unpredictable results. An accidental pollination may almost 'destroy' a sensi bud crop.
 
its fairly accepted (at least by me lol) that cannabinoids, at the very least, serve a defense purpose for the plant. there is likely more functions, but its hard to argue against the defense for predation, adverse weather, over exposure to light, dessication..etc

so, the most critically important part of a plants life cycle (from the perspective of the plant) is going to be the reproductive stage. everything has led to that point in time, and the plant will do everything it can to ensure a viable seed, to continue the species.

I dont know of any real evidence supporting it, but that doesnt mean I dont buy into the idea, at least to some degree.

what would be questionable about it, imo, is how much seeding is necessary to achieve the desired alterations to the cannabinoid profile? for example...

if the cannabinoids are all linked (which is also believable, theyre all derived from the same precursor chemicals) then production maintains relative uniformity throughout the plant. in this case, pollination of only a few (maybe 1) bracteoles could be enough to trigger the reaction

however, if its more localized, as in the cannabinoid profile of each bract differs from another on the same plant, then youd have to pollinate the whole plant to achieve the desired result. selective breeding that we all use would only boost a budsite's cannabinoid profile...

and im rambling again....am I making any sense? its hard to tell sometimes, whether im talking coherently or talking out my ass. its a fine line to walk lmao
 
You make sense. I think that that female (seed)plants perform better as a group if there is a male around, or a few of them are making seed. I have no scientific basis for this, it just seems like if I have a male around, I end up with a higher # of plants that are 'stand-out' from a vigor perspective. I don't think that I've noticed that the same clone is more/less potent if seeded. I mean puff for de-seeded puff. Of course sinsi will contain a higher wt/vol % of thc Vs. seeded bud (seeds are heavy and have no thc, lol). I smoke all of the bud that I cook seeds in, and I smoke much of my sinsi, and have never really been able to tell which is wich from a smoke perspective.

Just to play devil's advocate...
If the plant has to devote energy to 'changing' the dna/rna code, and pushing out male flowers, that is energy that may have been used for cannabinoid/alkaliod/starch production. It WOULD come at the same time as the plant should be ripening/finishing.
 
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