After Nevil's pasing, Sam weighs in

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
As far as I know, Sam the Skunkman AKA David Watson has not uttered a peep about the passing of Nevil, which I believe speaks volumes about the man. But he has weighed in with his story about the seeds he sold to Nevil.
The original thread I was going to post this in was started by Nevil in December 2010, but it is closed. This was Nevil's opening post:

Nevil said:
"It looks like dope, but really it's hope," explains David Watson. What he means is that many of these plants have been specifically bred not to produce an intoxicating resin or hashish. Indeed, HortaPharm hopes to thwart the aims of the average recreational user.”

The team is already close to finding their own commercial Holy Grail - seeds that will produce a one-off, female, seedless crop of plants with no psychotropic effects for the consumer. Why, you might ask, would they want to do that?

HortaPharm is only interested in developing female plants that are sterile, but this is not just to protect their genetic copyright. "If a plant is not kept busy producing seeds, all its energy can go into resin production," says Watsons Dutch colleague and biochemist Etienne de Meijer.

Watson believes the bright future of (Cannabis) is contained in the greenhouses of HortaPharm and GW Pharmaceuticals.
'The object is to patent up every possible combination of cannabinoids with efficacy for every possible disease they can treat, and every possible genetic sequence! Once ready to make the move, they will shut down every medical cannabis grower for patent fraud”

“Monsanto terminator technology is being applied to Cannabis by (David Watson) at Hortapharm in Holland".'
http://community.kpfz.org/node/17
As avid MNS and haze lore readers know, Nevil's acquisition of haze genetics from David Watson in Holland in 1985 was a seminal moment in modern cannabis history. In particular, much has been speculated about the origins of the seeds David Watson sold to Nevil that produced the legendary Haze A and Haze C males, and how David Watson acquired them. Here's what Nevil said:

The subject of Haze keeps coming up.
I got mine from Sam the Skunkman in the 80's. I bought a couple of thousand of old stock late 60s/ 70. The first batch that I planted produced one plant, a female. It was the slowest to flower I'd ever come across and flowered for longer. I got 3 different crops of seed of it and it had still not finished. It was huge and filled a quarter of the room, it had wispy buds and when you smoked it, other people complained about the smell. It didn't have much resin and after 9 months flowering, with no end in sight, I chopped it. It seem the most impractical plant I'd ever grown. I didn't keep a cutting.

One of the males I crossed it with was Ruderalis x NL1 X NL1. I was testing a 25% Ruderalis male on the most difficult plant I'd come across to see what it would do. I used all the seed I had to find the earliest male for the next generation. I grew the females out and because it was so resinous, I made hash out of it. To this day it was the best hash I've ever smoked, and I've been privileged to have smoked the best.
I truly regret not having made a cutting of that plant. I didn't make that mistake with the 6 that followed.
I'm feeling a bit sad now, I think that I'll go and have a smoke.
I'll tell you the rest later.
N.
Still a lot of questions about haze and apparently a lot of conflicting stories.
I haven't been paying attention to what Sam the Skunkman has been saying. He lost me years ago and if he wants to come out from behind his alias and go toe to toe with me, well that will be just fine with me (hey David).
If he is saying that he gave me Purple Haze and it was crap, Well that's true. If he is saying that his lime green Haze was crap , well that's true too. If he is saying that he gave me a Haze cutting, well to be honest, I can't remember, but if he did it was crap. I seem to recall that he entered his lime Haze in a Cup, if he did he got his arse kicked.
The Haze seeds I got from Sam were grown in America in 69/70. I got them in the mid 80's. All of my Haze came from these seeds of which I was saying I got 7 plants. I was hoping that Sam would come out with something good from his remaining seeds, he never did and to my knowledge, nor did anyone else. The only good haze that hit the market was from two males A and C.
Hz C male produced 5Hz1 which won a Cup or 2, this was a daughter of NL5 which won a cup. 5Hz1 when crossed with Sk1x HzC produced Silver Haze which won a Cup. Ben renamed it Jack Herrer. Somebody else renamed it Diesel. 5HzC X Sk1Hz C was not as good as 5Hz1. Mango Haze (5Hz122)is a full sister to 5Hz1 and these two were the best out of tens of thousands.
Haze A produced 5HzA2 (5A2) and was featured on the cover of the 1990 catalogue and is the mother of Nevil's Haze, the father being HzC.
If you are smoking any good Haze, I'll bet you London to a brick that it comes from Haze A or Hz C or both!
After the first batch of '69 Haze seeds only produced 1 plant, I decided to plant the rest. This produced 5 plants A,B,C,D and E.
Plants B,D and E were females, of which B was the best. I tried all possible combinations and the best was B x C. BC was actually grown commercially alongside 5HzC1, so it was a 10/11 week plant. This fact alone indicated that HzB was a Haze Hybrid to something early. I suspect that most of BC's quality came from Dad.
I planted the rest of the old seeds. One came out. O for Omega. It was a 1970 seed. I suspected that it was only 25% Haze with one parent being Indica. It too did not really pan out.
The males were the "goods". Without those two plants, I think that all would have been lost. If I'd only kept a cutting of the first female, whose genotype was closer to male A. I'm start to get that sad feeling again.

Ah well, you can be thankful that the seeds fell into my hands, otherwise you wouldn't know what I'm talking about.
N.
Sam would have had the same problem as me. The seeds were very old, either nothing of consequence came up or he didn't keep cuttings of what came up.
So that's Nevil's side of the story. Sam recently responded in a thread on ICMag to questions about what seeds he sold Nevil. Here's a nice summary by our friend leet (l33t) in that thread a few pages before David Watson responded. I quote leet here because I completely agree with what he said, and he said it well.

As far as the Haze story, I have no idea mate. We only know Sams story and Nevils story which are not really contradicting. It is only contradicting that Nevil said they were from a seedbag labeled 69' but Sam never disputed the fact that this wasnt true. Sam doesnt remember exactly what seeds these were and we have no reason to dispute that the seed Nevil got wasnt labeled as such. Also Sam doesn't remember if he gave him a female or a male clone, Nevil says he might have had a female clone and if it was, it was crap. That's what these people say.

I believe Sam had lots of haze seeds he had collected and labeled with years. He sold seeds that were labeled 67-68-69-70+ in the 80's so lets say at least 11 years and if it was 85' ( I remember he said 80s dont remember if he mentioned the exact years ) we are talking about 15 years old seed , maybe even more. Which sounds spot on for the seed germination Nevil had ( 7 out of 1000 ). He might have thought that these were the oldest seeds he had and he would probably wouldnt germinate them or he thought the later seeds were better so he sold the old seed, or he needed money when he moved to holland, who knows mate. Don't forget Sam wasn't there from the beginning of the haze thing, the guys were growing and collecting seed for many years before Sam met them and then he had access and also contributed to these seeds... thats the story. It doens't necessarily mean that Sam was there in 69... Nevil is claiming that Sam probably didnt even smoke the 69 Haze and he only knows the haze from 74 and later.

Now I don't know the story behind the Original Haze brothers, I only know what Sam said and Nev said and for me their stories match perfectly and dont contradict themselves...

For all I know Nev and Sam could be the same person or the DEA or pals to expertly market their strains. Stories are good for people that dont have anything better to do but they are just that, stories.


Peace :)
l33t
Here's the post David Watson made last week:

I just read all the posts from my last post #1945 to #2376.The seeds I sold to Nevil were all made by me mostly from Holland work.
I never sold any I collected from Haze I obtained from the Haze Bros. I sold my work.
J & G are the same guy. Almost all my OHaze seeds were from him.
I never sold any OHaze X S Indian Kerala or Thai as OHaze, I always called them OHaze X whatever.
Burning Bush was 100% pure OHaze I grew it in Calif and named it, RCC also smoked it with me, and loved it. That and another OHaze I called Cream De La Cream and another I called Mr Greasy even though it was a girl, it had very very streched laddery buds that even when dry and placed in a zip bag greased up the bag unbelievably, it was also hard to roll and keep a joint lit.
Nevil did not have OHaze seeds from before the 70's 80"s as he got his OHaze from me and I only sold him seeds I had made, all 100% OHaze, but not from the 60's or early 70's as I did not start making OHaze seeds until the mid 70's and in large amounts in the 80's in Holland. I think I sold him seeds I made in Holland after 85'.

I will try and answer a few questions if I know the answers, but will ignore any questions I have answered before. Dont ask me about others Haze as I was not the breeder you need to ask the breeder.

The reason that OHaze was seldom found in Coffee shops in Amsterdam is because commercial growers wanted herb with a short flowering period, why would they grow a OHaze that took 16-24 weeks and did not yield as much as a 7-8 week plant?
That and I was a seed producer not a commercial grower if I was I would have worked up an OHaze pure, that was better then NH at least to me.
I get that not all liked OHaze X Skunk or Thai/OHazeXSkunk but I did and many others I know also did.
I also have yet to find any Cannabis that had a more Cerebral, Clear, Up, Psychdelic high with no celing that got you higher every time you took a toke. Nevils did not, for me anyway.
People have many different preferences I also have mine. RCC agrees with me if that matters. I did not see OHaze until the very early 70's I did see both G's and RL's my wife manicured for G and he was the first OHaze Bro, we were close back in the day, and his was the best. Shame he quite growing OHaze but it was so much easier to get my Skunk #1 seeds for his grows, this was before people maintained clones, and his OHaze was already suffering from inbreeding depression, I did not try and improve my OHaze seed lines I tried to preserve all the genes and only sold them with the advice to use them for breeding not commercial growing, to use for commercial growing you need to grow thousands and select the best 10 clones to reproduce for product, few people wanted to do that.
I sold Nevil seeds for $1 a pop for any of my varieties.
I sold by the kilo for €5,000 there are 50,000 - 75,000 for small seeds like OHaze.
I still have a KG of OHaze seeds made a decade ago they are not for sale they are for a OHaze project I am trying to arrange outdoors in the ground at a latitude of 18 just to find and clone the best 10-20 for production where legal.
I have zero problems to keep well made seeds alive stored under refridgerated 4c for 25 years so they are still germainating in the high 90's if and when I do this I will post photos of the 10-20 as well as their Cannabinoid and terpene profiles.
These are slightly over 75 per gram so 75,000 seeds and normally I get 70% females with OHaze so I will have lots to select the 10-20 keepers from, I expect about 50,000 females if started carefully. I am retired from selling seeds, but I will allow others to do what they want with my work, they will pay me for the work, and it is not work as I want to do it even retired.

FYI the OHaze grown by the Haze Bros were not all equal in quality, maybe 10% were fantastic, 50% good or great, and maybe 10% not as good but most would still think it was great. Each year after 1970 the quality and yields and vigor declined a bit. By 1980 I did not know any large OHaze growers, for the reasons I have stated.

I have told the truth, I have zero to gain by altering the truth, I am retired for several years now. I have had a great life, few complaints, I would like to put out a dependable pure OHaze seed line or two for my self and others, even if I do not sell them but let others do so. Selling is work, I do not need the $ and I will only do what I love today. Breeding OHaze is not work for me it is fun, and I think I can do it better then anyone else just because of my experience and history.

FYI I have all but given up on Phylos, they have other goals then my interest in Cannabis Evolution and Relationships, but FYI I only sent them extracted DNA no living materials they could steal, I also sent them many of my varieties DNA, focused on Landraces to help explore my interest in Evolution and Relationships. I am glad I tried, nothing ventured nothing gained.....

-SamS
David Watson later responded in caps to some questions:

Sams

Do you still have any OHaze seeds from G ? If soo have you tried to germ them ? NO I HAVE NONE LEFT JUST OFFSPRING.

From your post I assume Nevils Haze was from pure Lumbo correct? YES.

Nevil said you told him burning bush was an ancestor of his seed stock he acquired , the 66-70 dates labeled on Nevils seeds he acquired from you was a BS story ? NOT SURE BUT BURNING BUSH WAS PURE OHAZE I GREW AND NAMED.

The fact he got 7 seeds to pop out of thousands from 85 stock don’t sound right . But you would know best THE SEEDS I SOLD HIM HAD A VERY HIGH GERM RATE, HE DID NOT EVER GROW THOUSANDS FROM SEEDS HE GOT FROM ME AS FAR AS I KNOW.

Soo all the OHaze you sold to seedsman TFD positronics was pure Colombian? YES UNLESS SOLD AS A HAZE HYBRID.

The emphasis all these years folks have made on thai association to OHaze is funny I GAVE BOTH RL AND G THAI SEEDS I GOT FROM GOLDEN OFF THE STICK THAI THAT WAS FANTASTIC IN MAYBE 75 IN SC. THEY MADE A FEW HYBRIDS BUT G LIKE THE PURE OHAZE BETTER AND DID NOT USE THEM AGAIN, RL LIKED THEM BUT DID NOT KEEP CLONES SO THEY WERE GONE PRETTY QUICK, THE SAME WITH S INDIAN, KERALA. I MADE MORE HYBRIDS AS I FOUND THEM INTERESTING.

It seems you answered this already but I don’t understand, you never sold any Haze x Thai / S.indian as OHaze . But you said burning bush was OHaze with a strong Thai influence

Is burning bush Colombian x Thai ? Or pure Lumbo ? NO THAI IN IT.

I love details I appreciate you sharing more with us and setting some things straight, your wife manicuring and details of Nevils stock

I hope this future OHaze project comes to fruit and we can possibly have a taste or access to a representation from someone who knows it best

TIME WILL TELL.
-SamS


Much Respect

1luvbigherb
More from Watson:

This story has inaccuracies I will not correct them as I may wish to tell my own story some day. That is why I do not like to tell all because then someone else will say they have the whole true story, they do not. This has happened several times already.... Hell I am the leader of a Sacred Seeds Collective of many growers started in the 40's or 50's what a joke, I was Sacred Seeds no one else, there was no Sacred Seeds until I started it named it bred the seeds. I did all the breeding or seed production. Big Herb that is why I ignore many of your posts because of articles like this with mistakes are taken as the truth. I do not really want to help anyone that does not get all their "facts" straight. I think the preface was written by Jair whom I know, and the rest by Big Herb in 2011? He did the best he could as he was not there. Hell he tracked down the 3 Haze Bros from back East I never did.
-SamS
So we have David Watson laying claim to having produced the seeds he sold to Nevil, completely contradicting what Nevil said. I don't believe a fucking word of it. Nevil had absolutely no reason to lie about what he bought from David Watson, while Watson's new alternate version that he bravely posted after Nevil's death is all about how important his role was in the haze story. He also went on a tear editing other people's posts in that thread and others.

Only the good die young.
 
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Big Sur

Well-known member
There are several people here (and many more on IcyRag) with their heads so far up Watson's arse I think they have become a part of his spleen. In my brief encounters with Watson over on the IceRag before I was banned there, nothing he said made any sense to me. Nor does any of his spins about NorCal in the 1970s jive with what I saw living there. To the extent that the Monterey Bay area that I lived in and he (maybe) lived in were completely different worlds. Over time thinking about it, it seems to me that his world has to be fluid in order to cover up for all the lies he has spun over the years about Sacred Seeds, breeding top strains, the Haze Bros., etc. etc. His dates vary all over the place from story to story and who and when and where is so nebulous as to be pure and utter fantasy. Which I believe pretty much sums up everything about Watson.

To the contrary Nevil has one simple story line, and it never changed. His perspective is consistent. We also know for a fact that he started his seed company, where he started it and when. Nevil put his photo on it. There are lots of photos of him posted from all over the world. We also have lots of press from third sources of events about him, including being busted and jailed. Watson on the other hand? We have zero corroboration of anything that he says. There are no photos, save for a few with scratched out faces that could be of anyone, little press (real press that is), and a lot of fake names and aliases, and a pile of fiction published in High Times. There is zero evidence that Sacred Seeds ever existed in Santa Cruz County. There is no evidence of any bust of Watson or Sacred Seeds in Santa Cruz. The only thing I could dig up about Watson from people I know in the Santa Cruz area was that Watson was a small time dealer there at one time. That's it.

Reading the books, The Bandit of Kabul (1 & 2), Weed, and The King of Nepal books, the three authors Jerry Beisler, Jerry Kamstra and Joe Pietri are all consistent and open about what the scene was back in the day. It also agrees with what I lived through and what I and my friends did back then. At least in Northern California, Oregon, BC and Mexico where I was. I do not know what happened in Holland, and I have never been there. The stories about Watson in Santa Cruz? Especially the so-called report by "Dutch authorities" investigating and reporting about Watson being busted in Santa Cruz and Sacred Seeds being shut down, and all the crap about Watson saving the seeds from a dumpster? Pure bullshit. It never happened. I and others have searched the records and old newspapers in Santa Cruz, Santa Clara and Monterey Co. Nothing about any of that. Never mind that I lived there in the Monterey Bay area at the time that these events were supposed to have happened. I do not recall any news stories or anyone ever saying anything about Sacred Seeds, David Watson, the Haze Bros, or heard of anything called Haze. With the one exception that the LSD batch made for the Monterey Pop Festival was dubbed 'Purple Haze'. The guy that made that batch of LSD later said that he hated the name Purple Haze, for whatever reason.

Anyway, Watson has told me online that Big Sur Holy Weed sucked, and he smoked it with the 'hippies' in Big Sur in 1969. He said that he had Haze then and it was so much better, and that was all he smoked. Odd that he would refer to the Big Sur hippies being some other entity than his own. We are all hippies then. Big Sur was overrun with hippies by 1966 when we moved to the area. There were always 100s of thumbs out along Highway 1. I never went on any hippie trail, it came to me. Also the notion that he only smoked Haze for what, 15 years? Its utter nonsense. No one had an endless stash of weed. The whole region was always dry in late summer before the harvest came in from Mexico every year. And who would only smoke one type of weed when there were so many great strains floating around? And how/why would he breed anything else (as he claims) if that were the case? And the story that Haze weed sold for over $200 an ounce in the early 1970s in that area? Ba ha ha ha! Acapulco Gold was $20 a lid then. Who would pay 10x that for a bag weed?

As for Watson being a big breeder from Santa Cruz, that is pure crap as well. Debunk #1: Jerry Beiser documented that he bred California Orange. Debunk #2: Mel Frank has posted that he bred Durban Poison and sent his Durban "B" strain to Watson in Holland. Debunk #3: There is no fucking way that Watson bred original Skunk. It was all over NorCal by the late 1970s, and there are/were several strains of skunk. Debunk #4: Haze. Watson's Haze stories are all over the place. The Haze Brothers... well, they were not really brothers, and one retired to Mexico, see? Oh, then there were no Haze Bros. after people like me posted that was pure bullshit. So now the story has drifted to there only really being one guy that bred Haze, and not named Haze, and no brothers... yeah. And it was bred in 1974, No, wait, it was around in 1969. No it was later in the 70s. If that weed was that good then, EVERYONE would have known about it. It would have sold out fast. ALL the good weed I had sold out FAST. Like Kerala Ganja, Lebanese Red hash, Thai sticks, Colombian Gold, and the really fucking good Guerrero. No one seems to have heard of any Haze weed back then. Haze came into Santa Cruz from Holland much later. Several have posted about that here on MrN. That was after 1986 when I moved to Sandy Eggo.

In the end what I believe is what Nevil posted here long since. That Watson simply took strains available in NorCal in local bag weed and took them to Holland and sold them to Nevil as his own breeds. End of story. The rest is all cooked up shit to sell the beans and to sell stories to High times magazine. But there are the loyal followers of Watson, and all this crap posted online about him being a super breeder like no other. There is God, Jesus, and then Watson. The Holy Trinity. Funny thing though, all the other "best breeders" have come up with one or maybe a few breeds that stood the test of time. DJ Short, Shanti, Mel Frank, The Indian, Ken Estes, yadda yadda. But not Watson, he bred the best of the best all as a master breeder! All conveniently bred in a remote place for a fictional company somewhere in south Santa Cruz Co. called Corrolitos that no one would have heard of. Except the likes of me. And after his move to Holland? The magic breeding streak ended. Funny that. With more genetics and a DEA license in hand, more room and more greenhouses and more available breeding stock? In Holland he is attributed merely to breeding the skunk out of skunk and breeding the Durban out of Durban with skunk. So he bred two strains with skunk and called himself the Skunkman. Big whoop. You would think he would have put all the other global breeders to shame there with all the superior breeding knowledge and available genetics. And yet... zilch.

Its all tall tales of the wold west. Nevil had it dead right. Watson? Depends on the day of the week as to what that story line will be.
 
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Amoril

New member
I started ignoring watson over a decade ago, after interacting with him over at IC. That's a dude with no chill.

Hes obsessed with getting credit for "his work," which just happens to be a majority of all cannabis, or so he claims. Like BigSur pointed out... theres no evidence he did much of any of it.

I can only think of one other breeder that would get this hostile, derogatory, defamatory, and obsessed with making sure he was given his "due respect;" it was a breeder who was busted by the DEA running his "west coast" operations out of Connecticut and Massachusetts, in a couple of stealth suburban house grows.... literally closet pollen chucking. Somehow, someone from that bust decided to take others down too, and became an informant

What's funny is, this sounds almost exactly like Dave Watsons story, but its Greg Krzanowski of reservoir seeds. Dave managed to stay out of jail, and decided to pursue getting all the credit for all cannabis via patents / trademarks with gw pharm / hortapharm. Their parallels are uncanny though
 
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Glow

Member
Dave Watson or whatever he chooses to call himself on any day of the week. Flees the US with the DEA hot on his heels (or so he tells us) and is the first and only guy to be given a permit (the DEA tick of approval) to send seed to the US. It isn't rocket science. Go figure!
 

Zimbo

New member
wow

Is it a coincidence? After reading this VERY EDUCATIONAL THREAD ( thanks to all who contributed).

I see ToddMccormick on IG claiming he is about to do a major Haze drop of genetics from Nev and "watson",

I stumbled across it on theseedsource IG.

Respect to all.
 

PlantManBee

Well-known member
LOL

I like Shanti's take on this (paraphrasing): It's VERY hard to know what happened if you weren't there. Even if you were around, it is unlikely you KNOW.

As an old fart I have come to believe one thing about people. They love stories and will treat them as gospel if it makes them feel superior.
 

Big Sur

Well-known member
Is it a coincidence? After reading this VERY EDUCATIONAL THREAD ( thanks to all who contributed).

I see ToddMccormick on IG claiming he is about to do a major Haze drop of genetics from Nev and "watson",

I stumbled across it on theseedsource IG.

Respect to all.
Todd McC posted for the first time here on MrNice on a thread about Nevil. He seems to have his head as far up Watson's ass anyone else, perpetuating the BS about Watson the breeder, Sacred Seeds, etc. etc. All on the back of Nevil's "tribute". He goes on to say that Waton 'gifted' Haze to Nev, which is piling on more BS. But typical. Now that Nevil is dead, the ghosts are coming out telling tall tales about him.

I suggest that you read Nevil's posts here for the real story line about Nevil. Pretty much everything else is fiction. Fiction written for and published by the High Times rag.
 

Zimbo

New member
Thank you Sur,

I suspected the same as you, about the timing. I got the PDF list from him. He has basically crossed female of every bling designer strain you can think of with a male ON Haze (ON Haze = Original from Neville or Northern Lights) no other info at all. And not shy on the prices.

Its clear that there are multiple camps on what is what but what amazes me is that so many guys States side seem to think the Super Silver Haze is a lost strain from the olden days. I am just happy to know that Im fine in the Mr.Nice camp, lol.

I want to get more info out of Todd, if you have any questions I can ask, I would be more than happy to, stir the pot since I am, a nobody. hahahah.

I love this forum, cant say it enough.
 

Elmer Bud

Banned
Todd McC posted for the first time here on MrNice on a thread about Nevil. He seems to have his head as far up Watson's ass anyone else, perpetuating the BS about Watson the breeder, Sacred Seeds, etc. etc. All on the back of Nevil's "tribute". He goes on to say that Waton 'gifted' Haze to Nev, which is piling on more BS. But typical. Now that Nevil is dead, the ghosts are coming out telling tall tales about him.

I suggest that you read Nevil's posts here for the real story line about Nevil. Pretty much everything else is fiction. Fiction written for and published by the High Times rag.
G `day BS

I wonder why Nevil campaigned against Skunk man calling him a snitch .

When Nevil himself got involved with a guy in the USA who turned over the mailing list with the addresses of all the Nth American customers to the FBI !

That led to thousands being busted in Green Merchant .Grow Shop owners and their families got caught up in conspiracies to grow ganja and did lots of time .
But don`t worry about that . Sam is the boogie man . lol .

Thanks for sharin

EB .
 
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Big Sur

Well-known member
Thank you Sur,

I suspected the same as you, about the timing. I got the PDF list from him. He has basically crossed female of every bling designer strain you can think of with a male ON Haze (ON Haze = Original from Neville or Northern Lights) no other info at all. And not shy on the prices.

Its clear that there are multiple camps on what is what but what amazes me is that so many guys States side seem to think the Super Silver Haze is a lost strain from the olden days. I am just happy to know that Im fine in the Mr.Nice camp, lol.

I want to get more info out of Todd, if you have any questions I can ask, I would be more than happy to, stir the pot since I am, a nobody. hahahah.

I love this forum, cant say it enough.
Nothing I want from Todd or anyone at the High Times camp, per se. Or any hybrid fem breeders like Arjan & Co. Many of these seed strains out there come from Shanti, by the way. He breeds and supplies a large amount of the current seed business from what my contacts tell me. Shanti has posted about it here on Mr Nice. I am also a nobody, but I knew and know a lot of people in NorCal, Oregon and in Europe. Breeders, collectors, growers, seed distributors...

I have a lot of otherwise claimed to be extinct strains on ice. Big Sur Holy/Zac Purple, African Black Magic, original Kona Gold, Saipan, early Kerala, Congo Black, several Colombian Golds, Oaxacan mint, Jamaican Lamb, early Durban, Waipi'o Hapa, Bekaa Valley Leb, etc. etc. Over 100 now in my collection. I also believe I have original Haze, what I call Haze Zero. Seeds from a bag of weed that I bought back in 1982 in Gilroy, CA. Gilroy is just over the hill from Corrolitos, said home of the infamous and now seemingly no longer to have ever existed Haze Bros. I am trying to find a PhD student at one of the local universities to run tests to see if it is a parent or ancestor of the later Haze strains. I have SSH seeds and several other "haze" strains to compare it to. SSH is all over Oregon weed shops, and one of the most common strains available here. So is Northern Lights. Hardly lost or extinct.
 

Efesto

Active member
G `day BS

When Nevil himself got involved with a guy in the USA who turned over the mailing list with the addresses of all the Nth American customers to the FBI !

That led to thousands being busted in Green Merchant .Grow Shop owners and their families got caught up in conspiracies to grow ganja and did lots of time .
But don`t worry about that . Sam is the boogie man . lol .

Thanks for sharin

EB .
I don't understand what Nevil has to do with this... beyond the working relationship with the boy.
 

Dr. Purpur

New member
The lamb is getting cold

Originally Posted by Dr. Purpur

Ive gotta lamb roast, to be served with Mint sause, a Greek salad with everything, couscous, spanish torta crisps breads, Poully Foucey french wine, coconut cream pie, and My Son cant make it on time.



I'll be there as soon as I can.
N.


I miss you Bro :(



DP
 
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btoks

New member
I don't understand what Nevil has to do with this... beyond the working relationship with the boy.
i think when police got Nevil they found all adds where seeds were send and cops went to bust all those people, families etc.
 

Efesto

Active member
i think when police got Nevil they found all adds where seeds were send and cops went to bust all those people, families etc.
not Nevil, but it was the man who worked as a distributor in the United States who sold his addresses to the DEA to save himself
 

Marcus_in_the_Darkus

Well-known member
Todd McC posted for the first time here on MrNice on a thread about Nevil. He seems to have his head as far up Watson's ass anyone else, perpetuating the BS about Watson the breeder, Sacred Seeds, etc. etc. All on the back of Nevil's "tribute". He goes on to say that Waton 'gifted' Haze to Nev, which is piling on more BS. But typical. Now that Nevil is dead, the ghosts are coming out telling tall tales about him.

I suggest that you read Nevil's posts here for the real story line about Nevil. Pretty much everything else is fiction. Fiction written for and published by the High Times rag.
Todd has been on IG like white on rice hawking his Original Haze seed release in April. Five seeds for $50. Idiots lining up to give him money. Calling Nevil a liar and saying why he believes Sam's story. It's disgusting. Here's a post I made on icmag where this is being discussed. What's the over/under on when my post gets taken down or I'm banned?

Todd's marketing blitz on IG is over the top, IMO. Here's also calling a dead man (Nevil) a liar while Sam's splooge is dripping from his chin.

How many killer plants and stains descended from Haze A and C males? Millions more than descended from Ohaze. Why? Because the seed Nevil got was unique and irreplaceable in the mid 1980s.

I know bullshit when I see it.
 

bluntmassa

Well-known member
Yeah, it is some shit how people will hype up Sam's Haze when all of the legendary Haze's stem from Nevil along with Skunk, NL and all. Sure Sam might have created Skunk#1 but almost every strain with Skunk came by way of Nevil's selections of Skunk.

Really, I wouldn't be surprised if Sam didn't actually have half the strains he claims. Seems nobody has seen them but Sam. Then the whole Sativex deal, the guy uses a high THC plant and a high CBD plant meanwhile Shantibaba and the dude from Resin Seeds teamed up and actually created strains with the 1:1. Really makes you realize he damn sure ain't the best breeder, sure he knows things, but probably no more than Shantibaba and who's work has really shined? Not Sam's, not since the 80's and that was mostly through Nevil. Lol

Only thing I'm a little worried about is the patents Sam holds.
 

Paky One

Active member
Sam did not create Hz ... nor Sk#1.

Fact is that both strains are from totally unknown heritage.

Cf. R.C. Clarke, ‘Cannabis Domestication, Breeding History, Present-day Genetic Diversity, and Future Prospects’ in: Critical Reviews in Plant Sciences (nov. 2016) p. 314:

‘A brief summary of the breeding of "Skunk No. 1" will illustrate what is involved in developing a relatively true-breeding seed cultivar. Several plants were grown from a local California "skunk" variety, which was likely a 3/4 NLD and 1/4 BLD hybrid (e.g., Colombian/Afghan x Mexican) and then all the females were crossed with a single select male.’

ROFLMAO...

Peace
 

shantibaba

Breeder and moderator
Hi All

it is a fallacy to believe a person born in the 50s created things that have been around for some time before....no?

At best , like Rob Clarke states , all fellow breeders inherited genes from other passionate fellow breeders...what they did with them is how things should be judged not by who yells the loudest. Personally i am friends with most people in this business but simply put Egos get in the way of working correctly. So let your barometer be genetics as they do not lie or need ego.

Stories are interesting and the journeys of people are colorful to read about...but Howard always said this to me...."until you are finished doing it...never speak about it in public..."...how i miss him!

All the best Sb
 

PlantManBee

Well-known member
Hi All

it is a fallacy to believe a person born in the 50s created things that have been around for some time before....no?
Thank you Shanti.

I like this image of the situation: We are the tip of the spear. The point is what we credit, but every part is of equal importance.

Neville had vision into what was coming, and had the fortitude to dive in head first. I myself have (somewhat embarrassingly) been hiding in the weeds. No guts, no glory. Neville had the whole package for what was required. However, you don't get to the top without others slinging dirt and/or harboring some envy.

I don't know, but I suspect that Neville sometimes misspoke. I know that I do... every day.

Good growing guys!
 
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