Fem seeds and there impact on the future of the species known as cannabis.

[brock1]

I personally think GitT fights fire with fire, nothing wrong there... without theory and peers correcting you how do you know you are right? or moving in the right direction? with that sort of attitude children don't need school but should be happy in the sand pit for the rest of their lifes? some to me simply don't get some things.. I guess GitT gets a lil frustrated at times...

how do you know the theory's are right in the first place? not all are and some have been known as true for hundreds of years before proven wrong. if they weren't then the world would even still be flat theoretically. well fight fire with fire who's fighting with fire in the first place? posting with a defensive attitude isn't really productive to anything except making your self look a knob head that people don't have time for.

every day GITT gets put on block by more people eventually he will be talking to him self because he cant talk constrictive. i am all for moving forward like most people and i don't get everything right i am here to learn. acting all defencive and aggressive isn't moving forward at all. in fact he's mostly aggressive and defensive i bet face to face with these people he's acting so aggressive to he would leave a parcel in his pants or hide behind his book's of theory's hoping they don't know it's him. acting like some kind off Internet hard case to try bullying your point across isn't hard it perfetic. it isn't even clever or intelligent behavior.

clever people teach others to understand. they don't talk to people like there rubbish. GITT doesn't even have the intelligence to learn people he's right maybe it's because he's wrong. if he's frustrated tell him to get a porno. this isn't the place for frustrated people its the place for adults to learn and shear info about cannabis in a civil manner.

if he wants to fight fire with fire there's plenty of places for that in the real world. not here Internet slaps don't hurt and virtual flames do burn and leave you scared.

 

[Unclepeter]

how do you know the theory's are right in the first place? not all are and some have been known as true for hundreds of years before proven wrong. if they weren't then the world would even still be flat theoretically. well fight fire with fire who's fighting with fire in the first place? posting with a defensive attitude isn't really productive to anything except making your self look a knob head that people don't have time for.

every day GITT gets put on block by more people eventually he will be talking to him self because he cant talk constrictive soon. i am all for moving forward like most people and i don't get everything right i am here to learn. acting all defencive and aggressive isn't moving forward at all. in fact he's mostly aggressive and defensive i bet face to face with these people he's acting so aggressive to he would leave a parcel in his pants or hide behind his book's of theory's hoping they don't know it's him. acting like some kind off Internet hard case to try bullying your point across isn't hard it perfetic. it isn't even clever or intelligent behavior.

clever people teach others to understand. they don't talk to people like there rubbish. GITT doesn't even have the intelligence to learn people he's right maybe it's because he's wrong. if he's frustrated tell him to get a porno. this isn't the place for frustrated people its the place for adults to learn and shear info about cannabis in a civil manner.

if he wants to fight fire with fire there's plenty of places for that in the real world. not here Internet slaps don't hurt and virtual flames do burn and leave you scared.

oh yes because everyone here are civil aren't they? when some here cannot grasp the basics but happily tell others they are wrong with no cites.. just a gut feeling or whatever... For the record GitT can quite easily look after himself I'm not here to defend him he does a good enough job of that...

case example what does yours or BH's post have to do with the thread other than to say you don't like gitT or his attitude?

wake up the Canna community is always behind other crop improvements...

oh and those other crop improvers often look to books and breeding techs used within.

its like someone I spoke with who claimed that motas ogxbubba was the best plant they have smoked but was againts fem seeds!!!!

anyway...

Like agriculture science it may be valid to analysis all points from cannabioids to terpenes and resin etc...but the basic fact of all modern day strains lie in selection by individuals, based on the traits they preferred to select for. Sure you can do all the tests you like to prove your points but you can not go back 100 years to seed stocks to change how the selection guided the way we took to get to today.

I am not against femminized seed and always stated there are applications for it, but I do not think most people who do only femminized seeds lines can be called a breeder since you do need experience with male plants to fully understand things.In todays quick society people do not have the time to test all progeny of their works and considering it takes at least 3-6 months for them to be found to be false or correct...well you see where it goes no?

I see all of you have your view...fine by me. But if you do not agree or even follow others then why get abusive when it is merely opinions?
I like to thank people for all they do on the forum to make it interesting and begin to understand that there are distinctly different people involved in this industry. That is good to me. Just imagine the flack a guy like Charles darwin had to go through in his day to achieve debate....we are lucky people in comparison.Do not waste the opportunity to adventure and no road is the wrong road, since no one knows where we are going anyway! You choose the way that fits your understanding and philosophes...be honest and the rest will come.All the best sb

kopite

 

[brock1]

oh yes because everyone here are civil aren't they? when some here cannot grasp the basics but happily tell others they are wrong with no cites.. just a gut feeling or whatever... For the record GitT can quite easily look after himself I'm not here to defend him he does a good enough job of that...

case example what does yours or BH's post have to do with the thread other than to say you don't like gitT or his attitude?

wake up the Canna community is always behind other crop improvements...

oh and those other crop improvers often look to books and breeding techs used within.

its like someone I spoke with who claimed that motas ogxbubba was the best plant they have smoked but was againts fem seeds!!!!

anyway...


kopite

did i say all here is civil at any time? no i said people should act more civil i ever told people on here to start treating GITT more civil because of the way people were treating him. at the end of the day you cant help people that cant help themselves.

just for the record i don't really care how big and ugly anyone on here is. i don't do bullies no mater how big they are. i have seen more big men fall to the hand of nearly dwarfs to let things like that impress me.

as for me posting saying how much i don't like GITT i really i don't care a bit about him. i don't dislike him and i don't like him. wake up this is the Internet i don't know him. why should i like or dislike him? i just think he should treat people how he expects to be treat.

my post was for 1 thing to tell people to stop telling people they can or cant post in a thread on here. at the end of the day it's a public forum and everyone has the right to post including GITT. the only person who has the right to say other wise it Shanti as it's his site not GITT's to tell people. am i right? yes. in fact Shanti started the site so everyone can have there opinion and voice it.

what dose crop improver's have to do with letting people have there say? absolutely nothing. what dose crop improver's have to do with feminized cannabis? they don't just make fem seeds. they test crop & flower seeds and breeding techniques in big labs. then get independent scientists to test them after them before releasing things. dose this happen with cannabis no someone say look what i done then shears it or sells it. not exactly the same is it? one man on a mission and a team of scientists with almost unlimited resources. ho and they all have years of experience not just books to read some even wrote the books your talking about.

look i don't care weather someone liked ogxbubba or not. what you saying? it couldn't of been made with regular seeds? i do think that's rubbish if i am honest. it could off been done just like it was with females maybe it would take a little longer. if he likes it he likes it simple as that imoa.

for your information i didn't like fem seeds but now i don't really care. fem seeds regular seed's it's all down to personal preference nether are any better than the other if breed right. see i changed my mind as i learned more about them from practical and theory. i do think both should be available to the public and both fem fans and regular fans should stop treating each other like there the devil. i use fem's and regular. i prefer regular for strain i like keeping around but for a quick crop fem's are fine if there made properly. that's my opinion on them from what i have learned about them off people like Nevil ect and experience growing and making them my self.

see i want to be able to hear what everyone has to say. not just people who think there opinion is the only one that should be heard. in fact the people who think there opinions are the only one that should be heard are the only one's i haven't got time for and don't want to hear.

i hope you have a good day and your plant's all grow nice and green. thanks for having a opinion your totally entitled to it that's my point. i don't hate you or anyone for having one.

 

[joshuahazen]

1) The chemicals do not effect the progeny. The reason the progeny is gynoecious is because you have SELECTED an XX individual and you won't find any XYs in the punnet square...I can't believe you don't understand this concept. It has dick all to do with tetraploids. Learn some basic genetics.

2) Who would continue to chat with me? People who are informed and have something to say. That's who. Sorry it apparently isn't Nevil.

3) I wasn't calling all modern cultivars feral. I was saying we've used science to progress from feral hemp to our modern varieties.

Know nothings don't get to tell me to leave josh. Crack a book and fuck off.

I told you to be quiet GITT not to leave,

Anyway the time for for your pseudo-science is passed, you have already caused enough damage with your lies. You have just proven to me and the rest of us who are in the know that you don't know jack about genetics and inheritance in cannabis.

Warmke and Davidson established many years ago that Hermaphrodites in Cannabis are the sole result of tetraploid sexual expression, ie XXXY. Zhatov confirmed these results several decades later. Diploid samples can only express themselves as male or female. Whether chemicals like Gibberelic acid actually cause diploids to mutate into tetraploids or they just cause latent tetraploids to express themselves is a matter that to this day has not been resolved scientifically.

No more lies GITT! You who are so vehemently against 1:1 matings. What do you do? treat an entire field of cannabis females with chemicals so that they can open pollinate one another?

Lets see these Cultivars GITT!!!!!!!

Stop hedging, show us the proof.

You won't because you don't have it.


I am done here. But I would suggest to anybody that is sick and tired of GITTs lies to simply ask him to show you his Cultivars, any time he starts piping up with all of his ignorant baloney.
He won't do it because he doesn't have any.

 

[Unclepeter]

did i say all here is civil at any time? no i said people should act more civil i ever told people on here to start treating GITT more civil because of the way people were treating him. at the end of the day you cant help people that cant help themselves.

just for the record i don't really care how big and ugly anyone on here is. i don't do bullies no mater how big they are. i have seen more big men fall to the hand of nearly dwarfs to let things like that impress me.

as for me posting saying how much i don't like GITT i really i don't care a bit about him. i don't dislike him and i don't like him. wake up this is the Internet i don't know him. why should i like or dislike him? i just think he should treat people how he expects to be treat.

my post was for 1 thing to tell people to stop telling people they can or cant post in a thread on here. at the end of the day it's a public forum and everyone has the right to post including GITT. the only person who has the right to say other wise it Shanti as it's his site not GITT's to tell people. am i right? yes. in fact Shanti started the site so everyone can have there opinion and voice it.

what dose crop improver's have to do with letting people have there say? absolutely nothing. what dose crop improver's have to do with feminized cannabis? they don't just make fem seeds. they test crop & flower seeds and breeding techniques in big labs. then get independent scientists to test them after them before releasing things. dose this happen with cannabis no someone say look what i done then shears it or sells it. not exactly the same is it? one man on a mission and a team of scientists with almost unlimited resources. ho and they all have years of experience not just books to read some even wrote the books your talking about.

look i don't care weather someone liked ogxbubba or not. what you saying? it couldn't of been made with regular seeds? i do think that's rubbish if i am honest. it could off been done just like it was with females maybe it would take a little longer. if he likes it he likes it simple as that imoa.

for your information i didn't like fem seeds but now i don't really care. fem seeds regular seed's it's all down to personal preference nether are any better than the other if breed right. see i changed my mind as i learned more about them from practical and theory. i do think both should be available to the public and both fem fans and regular fans should stop treating each other like there the devil. i use fem's and regular. i prefer regular for strain i like keeping around but for a quick crop fem's are fine if there made properly. that's my opinion on them from what i have learned about them off people like Nevil ect and experience growing and making them my self.

see i want to be able to hear what everyone has to say. not just people who think there opinion is the only one that should be heard. in fact the people who think there opinions are the only one that should be heard are the only one's i haven't got time for and don't want to hear.

i hope you have a good day and your plant's all grow nice and green. thanks for having a opinion your totally entitled to it that's my point. i don't hate you or anyone for having one.

tell it to GitT as thats all the post you have done is about... you don't see the irony in YOU TELLING OTHERS WHAT TO DO AND HAVING A GO AT SOMEONE FOR DOING IT!!!!! WHO ARE YOU TO TELL?

 

[Unclepeter]

I told you to be quiet GITT not to leave,

Anyway the time for for your pseudo-science is passed, you have already caused enough damage with your lies. You have just proven to me and the rest of us who are in the know that you don't know jack about genetics and inheritance in cannabis.

Warmke and Davidson established many years ago that Hermaphrodites in Cannabis are the sole result of tetraploid sexual expression, ie XXXY. Zhatov confirmed these results several decades later. Diploid samples can only express themselves as male or female. Whether chemicals like Gibberelic acid actually cause diploids to mutate into tetraploids or they just cause latent tetraploids to express themselves is a matter that to this day has not been resolved scientifically.

No more lies GITT! You who are so vehemently against 1:1 matings. What do you do? treat an entire field of cannabis females with chemicals so that they can open pollinate one another?

Lets see these Cultivars GITT!!!!!!!

Stop hedging, show us the proof.

You won't because you don't have it.


I am done here. But I would suggest to anybody that is sick and tired of GITTs lies to simply ask him to show you his Cultivars, any time he starts piping up with all of his ignorant baloney.
He won't do it because he doesn't have any.

Didn't they use colchicine

 

[joshuahazen]

Nope, Colchicine works on an entirely different system by disrupting microtubules. In cannabis the polyploidal mutants created by colchicine are always staminate.

They used Gibberelic acid, in their experiments.

 

[GMT]

wow I'm glad I copied this before trying to post it as by the time I hit post the site had logged me out.

i agree with you and thanks for explaining it like that. sorry i couldn't wright it as simple as you. i used Xy only as a way of showing dominant expression. i should off pointed that out. one question how would you describe a plant that starts it's life male them turns Hermie than goes completely female? would this plant be XX or XY? it started XY but later turned totally XX or it could of started XY then turned XX. were do these plant sit in regard to XY or XX?

i have heard of these plant lots and have a shit here that started XY but now it's XX without chemicals of any sort so is it XY because it started that way or is it XX because it shows no male flower expression now? as its not Hermie now i don't see how i can call it one. it's female even if it started male it has no male flowers at all on it now. i will take cutting from it soon and i don't think they will be Hermie or male. were dose this plant sit in regard to X's or Y's? see it's not simple to explain it that way so i compromised best i could.

i cant believe you don't believe in fairies GMT. what about Santa? surely he's real?

I've actually used the Xy symbollogy myself in discussions off the board so I do know what you are refering to. Assuming that you were using it in the way I have. In that the lower case y was representing a faulty Y chromosome (being lesser in value than a fully functioning Y chromosome). However as we both know, on internet boards its prob best to avoid using home made symbolism. As it only confuses things. Look at the way IBL was misused for Inbred Lines (IL) rather than Inbred Backrossed Lines (IBL).
I've considered the situation you describe as I know of someone who's run into that situation before. It stumped me for a while as I tried to consider the various possabillities. I've come to the conclusion, and this is simply a statement of belief rather than known fact, that the only way for that to occur is as follows: It was born male with X and Y chromosomes. (this is assuming that it was born from a male / female meeting, if it was born from femmed seed then I can offer an alternative along the same lines). In the initial flowering the Y acted as it should, silencing the female flower production in the autosomal regions (and yes I know my spelling sucks but try to see past that to whats being said please). As the process of mitosis continued, a copying error occurred in the Y chromosome damaging that chromosome, and preventing it from effectively silencing all of the female flower production. This would allow both the female flowers to be produced, and would fail to silence the X chromosome (responsible for silencing the male flower production in the autosomal regions of the DNA) allwoing for both the male and female flowers to be produced. This then creates the observed hermie behaviour. In the next stage, the DNA photocopying process continues to degrade the Y chromosome, which by this point would effectively become a part of the genetic wasteland, and would not only fail to suppress the activities of the female flower production in the autosomal regions, but would also fail to supress the X chromosomes ability to supress the male flower production. This would then cause the plant to be observed as a female with no male flower parts.
So in short, the XY has in the first place become (using your above symbolism) Xy and now become X~ in effect, (damn I said it was best to avoid doing that on a message board didnt I. Sorry I dont know how else to represent it).

Lol appart from the type that wear pink hats in canal street, (and I don't have a problem with that type), no I dont believe in fairies, santa, vampires, sky gods, leprichauns, unicorns, or dragons. Sorry but if you want to talk to invisible friends why go for ones others have already invented, it shows a lack of imagination, make your own up.

 

[brock1]

wow I'm glad I copied this before trying to post it as by the time I hit post the site had logged me out.





I've actually used the Xy symbollogy myself in discussions off the board so I do know what you are refering to. Assuming that you were using it in the way I have. In that the lower case y was representing a faulty Y chromosome (being lesser in value than a fully functioning Y chromosome). However as we both know, on internet boards its prob best to avoid using home made symbolism. As it only confuses things. Look at the way IBL was misused for Inbred Lines (IL) rather than Inbred Backrossed Lines (IBL).
I've considered the situation you describe as I know of someone who's run into that situation before. It stumped me for a while as I tried to consider the various possabillities. I've come to the conclusion, and this is simply a statement of belief rather than known fact, that the only way for that to occur is as follows: It was born male with X and Y chromosomes. (this is assuming that it was born from a male / female meeting, if it was born from femmed seed then I can offer an alternative along the same lines). In the initial flowering the Y acted as it should, silencing the female flower production in the autosomal regions (and yes I know my spelling sucks but try to see past that to whats being said please). As the process of mitosis continued, a copying error occurred in the Y chromosome damaging that chromosome, and preventing it from effectively silencing all of the female flower production. This would allow both the female flowers to be produced, and would fail to silence the X chromosome (responsible for silencing the male flower production in the autosomal regions of the DNA) allwoing for both the male and female flowers to be produced. This then creates the observed hermie behaviour. In the next stage, the DNA photocopying process continues to degrade the Y chromosome, which by this point would effectively become a part of the genetic wasteland, and would not only fail to suppress the activities of the female flower production in the autosomal regions, but would also fail to supress the X chromosomes ability to supress the male flower production. This would then cause the plant to be observed as a female with no male flower parts.
So in short, the XY has in the first place become (using your above symbolism) Xy and now become X~ in effect, (damn I said it was best to avoid doing that on a message board didnt I. Sorry I dont know how else to represent it).

Lol appart from the type that wear pink hats in canal street, (and I don't have a problem with that type), no I dont believe in fairies, santa, vampires, sky gods, leprichauns, unicorns, or dragons. Sorry but if you want to talk to invisible friends why go for ones others have already invented, it shows a lack of imagination, make your own up.

that's the best post i have read in the 10 or so pages GMT thanks. i think i get what your saying mate. if i am right Y got damage and put in the genetic recycle bin replaced with the X from the recycle bin. if that makes sense lol. you had to use the Xy dose that make you a believer in the Xy then? see you had the same problem only i should of explained a bit better my bad. so if my plant is X~ dose that make it 100% female the same as XX. i read on the net early about them. it said they make more resin then a normal female because it was first a male. i don't get why that would be. if i breed from it with a male would it be like breeding reverse males or a regular male female mating?

i got to say i loved your reply about Santa. put a big smile on my face and it's perfectly logical. genius answer.

 

[GMT]

thankyou Brock, sorry I was preparing my tea or id have answered straight away.

Picture a 2 wheel drive car, lets say front wheel drive just so we know. Now equate this to an XY male, where X is the front left wheel and the Y is the front right wheel each pulling the car forward. Now lets say one of these wheels loses drive. You have a one wheel drive car, with only the front left wheel pulling the car forwards. The front right has lost drive, but that doesnt mean that the front left is replicated to the right, you dont get a replacement for it, you just lose the input from it.

Now if you were to breed with this plant that is now expressing female only triats while containing a faulty Y or in the above abreviation a new ~ chromosome, as its now degraded beyond the y symbol for a partially degraded Y. What would happen is that (roughly) half of the offspring would inherit the healthy X, and half of the offspring would inherit the faulty Y, y or ~ in the above explanation. So what you would probably end up with is a batch of seeds, with the following punnet square

............. X....................~

X............X X (fe).........X ~ (fe)


Y............X Y..(me).......Y ~ (me)


Where 50% of the seeds showed female expression (fe) but 25% contained the faulty Y or ~ chromosome and 25% were good females (assuming that the female X side of the X~ father turned mother plant wasn't also damaged, (which considering there is a problem with mitosis in that plant is a big gamble in itself). The other half showing male expression (me) 25% again being normal males (with the above caviat emptor) and 25% contain the known faulty chromosome.
Therefore I personally would avoid breeding with it.
Unless it contained exeptional qualities, in which case you'd have a 1 in 4 chance of selecting the right parents for the next generation. ie, 50% the right female expressing plant multiplied by 50% chance the right male expressing plant.


Not really sure how well I explained that.

 

[brock1]

tell it to GitT as thats all the post you have done is about... you don't see the irony in YOU TELLING OTHERS WHAT TO DO AND HAVING A GO AT SOMEONE FOR DOING IT!!!!! WHO ARE YOU TO TELL?

WHO AM I TO TELL? well i am a equal a person sat on a computer just like you. a person who treats others as they treat others. do you not like that? dose it not suit your ego? well maybe people should think about how they treat others if people like you or GITT want others to treat them any better. you get what you give and if you don't like it give better.

PS welcome to the net were a name is just that not someone in the real world. in fact you could try and find out who i am by my IP address or what ever its called. but well that wont go no were with who i am so i guess you will never truly know who i am. guess that makes me a stranger that treat others how they deserve to be treat based on how they treat others. it's call treating people fairly were i come from in the real world.

edited to ad i shouldn't of wrote this but i have. instead i should of just put you on ignore. me and you aren't going to see eye to eye. you think i am picking on your friend in the real world so i am just putting you on ignore now with our friend GITT. i wish i could say its been fun but well its not fun talking to you 2. that's why i am not going to no more.

 

[brock1]

thankyou Brock, sorry I was preparing my tea or id have answered straight away.

Picture a 2 wheel drive car, lets say front wheel drive just so we know. Now equate this to an XY male, where X is the front left wheel and the Y is the front right wheel each pulling the car forward. Now lets say one of these wheels loses drive. You have a one wheel drive car, with only the front left wheel pulling the car forwards. The front right has lost drive, but that doesnt mean that the front left is replicated to the right, you dont get a replacement for it, you just lose the input from it.

Now if you were to breed with this plant that is now expressing female only triats while containing a faulty Y or in the above abreviation a new ~ chromosome, as its now degraded beyond the y symbol for a partially degraded Y. What would happen is that (roughly) half of the offspring would inherit the healthy X, and half of the offspring would inherit the faulty Y, y or ~ in the above explanation. So what you would probably end up with is a batch of seeds, with the following punnet square

............. X....................~

X............X X (fe).........X ~ (fe)


Y............X Y..(me).......Y ~ (me)


Where 50% of the seeds showed female expression (fe) but 25% contained the faulty Y or ~ chromosome and 25% were good females (assuming that the female X side of the X~ father turned mother plant wasn't also damaged, (which considering there is a problem with mitosis in that plant is a big gamble in itself). The other half showing male expression (me) 25% again being normal males (with the above caviat emptor) and 25% contain the known faulty chromosome.
Therefore I personally would avoid breeding with it.
Unless it contained exeptional qualities, in which case you'd have a 1 in 4 chance of selecting the right parents for the next generation. ie, 50% the right female expressing plant multiplied by 50% chance the right male expressing plant.


Not really sure how well I explained that.

i understand what you just said perfectly GTM. i know its not the best plant to breed from i have 2 males i selected for that and put some pollen in the freezer from. i am interested to see what comes from it if i breed from it though. i may try reversing a cutting from it just to see what it breed like as a male again if it can. i will be able to put them outdoor soon so nothing lost from messing with some small cuttings outdoor. a friend grow a male from some fem seeds from a lowxskunk i give him but he killed it. i bet there would of been some strange plant's if i breed the 2 together. a lot of contusion there that would of take some explaining lol.

i also would of replied sooner but i promised the kids a hour on the computer before bed. when the real world calls the Internet must wait that how it is mate.

 

[GreenintheThumb]

Anyway the time for for your pseudo-science is passed, you have already caused enough damage with your lies. You have just proven to me and the rest of us who are in the know that you don't know jack about genetics and inheritance in cannabis.

You are such an ass. I didn't lie about a SINGLE thing in this 120+ page trainwreck. I spoke truth to power. I don't know jack about genetics? I guess the ignorant are often confused with Sam the Skunkman. Get real!

Warmke and Davidson established many years ago that Hermaphrodites in Cannabis are the sole result of tetraploid sexual expression, ie XXXY. Zhatov confirmed these results several decades later. Diploid samples can only express themselves as male or female. Whether chemicals like Gibberelic acid actually cause diploids to mutate into tetraploids or they just cause latent tetraploids to express themselves is a matter that to this day has not been resolved scientifically.

And how did they authenticate the XXXY's? Please enlighten me. What technique did they use?

The idea that diploid cannabis can only be pure male or pure female is hilarious. I'm sure there's NEVER been a monoecious line of hemp that is diploid. There sure are a lot of tetraploid hemp out there, right guys?

Your piss poor understanding of archaic research that doesn't even meet the threshold to be published in this day and age doesn't impress me.

Yeah, I'm sure scientists are arguing if the mutagens caused mutations or just allowed natural tetraploids to 'express' themselves. That's just a huge debate these days.

No more lies GITT! You who are so vehemently against 1:1 matings. What do you do? treat an entire field of cannabis females with chemicals so that they can open pollinate one another?

Um, what lies?

Lets see these Cultivars GITT!!!!!!!

Stop hedging, show us the proof.

You won't because you don't have it.


I am done here. But I would suggest to anybody that is sick and tired of GITTs lies to simply ask him to show you his Cultivars, any time he starts piping up with all of his ignorant baloney.
He won't do it because he doesn't have any.

I'm willing to bet a few thousand bucks that I'm growing more plants this year than anyone in this thread. At least until Tom Hill gets in here. Sorry, I'm in a legal state with a 15,000 sq ft warehouse with a state license to grow linked to two separate dispensaries. And we're looking at buying two more. Awww, shit; looks like the nerd knows his stuff AND works harder than you.

So you want to post the tents you have to hide in your basement?

 

[GreenintheThumb]

Hey GMT. Thanks for stopping by and posting some logic.

It was born male with X and Y chromosomes. (this is assuming that it was born from a male / female meeting, if it was born from femmed seed then I can offer an alternative along the same lines). In the initial flowering the Y acted as it should, silencing the female flower production in the autosomal regions (and yes I know my spelling sucks but try to see past that to whats being said please). As the process of mitosis continued, a copying error occurred in the Y chromosome damaging that chromosome, and preventing it from effectively silencing all of the female flower production. This would allow both the female flowers to be produced, and would fail to silence the X chromosome (responsible for silencing the male flower production in the autosomal regions of the DNA) allwoing for both the male and female flowers to be produced. This then creates the observed hermie behaviour. In the next stage, the DNA photocopying process continues to degrade the Y chromosome, which by this point would effectively become a part of the genetic wasteland, and would not only fail to suppress the activities of the female flower production in the autosomal regions, but would also fail to supress the X chromosomes ability to supress the male flower production. This would then cause the plant to be observed as a female with no male flower parts.
So in short, the XY has in the first place become (using your above symbolism) Xy and now become X~ in effect, (damn I said it was best to avoid doing that on a message board didnt I. Sorry I dont know how else to represent it).

Well certainly that's an interesting take...

Have you personally seen a flowering male transform into a hermie and finally only display female flowers?

Did the lower parts of the plant stay male?

I've never seen anything like this happen but I'm not doubting.

You ever seen a plant with only pistillate on one branch and staminate flowers on another?

 

[GMT]

Hey GiTT,
no I haven't seen it myself, I only have anecdotal evidence that this has ever even happened. To be honest, the first time I heard it I assumed that there had been a labelling error. It took me a while to figure out how it could possibly be true, and I'm still only guessing at the mechanism, it seems (even if my guess is accurate) very fast (over only 2 flowering rounds) to occur naturally. I suspect that more damage would continue to be done to the genome in question, over time, until the plant is no longer viable.

No again, not specifically on separate branches, the biggest prob I ever ran into with hermies, was on the test grow of Dave Van Pot's Rhino. And that may well have been due to stress caused by my own circumstances, (having to leave for a week and left them in semi darkness for that week during the 2nd week of flowering). But then I saw both male flowers and female flowers within the same clusters all over the plant.

I do see what you're getting at though, and it would take that observation to really add any weight to my hypothesis I agree. Can you think of an alternative mechanism that would allow the same observation to be made though? It seems, assuming the tale is accurate, that it would be the only possibility.

 

[hempy]

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

 

[oscar the rotund]

If your you're going to talk about sex determination this would be a great paper to read. The link was posted on another forum and decided it would be useful here.

SOME ASPECTS OF SEX DETERMINISM IN HEMP 2007
http://www.bio.uaic.ro/publicatii/a...d/2007_VIII_f2/2007_Anale_GBM_VIII_f2_l07.pdf

From the paper.
"Cannabis sativa L. is one of the best studied species under the aspect of genetic determinism of the
sex, but the problem is not yet entirely deciphered. The opinions are different, sometimes contradictory.
Thus, the hemp is included, according to some authors, in the category of plants with male heterogamy,
whereas the others sustain the idea of a complex sex determinism, seen as resultant of interaction between
individual hereditary potencies and the environmental factors."

another good quote:
"Frankel and Galun, 1977 affirm that the males are X/Y, and the females are X/X. Besides that, the allele
Xm exists, that determines the appearence of male flowers in female inflorescence. Thus, X/Xm plants have
female inflorescence, but they can be not strictly females. Depending on genetic and non-genetic additional
factors, these plants tend to masculinization, reason for which Kőhler named them “subgynoecious”. The
Xm/Xm plants will have female inflorescence, but functionally are males. Considering the results obtained in
various studies on polyploids by other researchers, Kőhler concluded that the masculinizing genes are
autosomal and they are balanced by femaleness carrying genes of X chromosome, while the Y chromosome
is “empty” under the aspect of sex determining genes.
Analysing these arguments and hypotheses, the following models were established:
- male plants with male inflorescence: X/Y, Xm/Y;
- male plants with female inflorescence, Xm/Xm;
- variable phenotypes, from true females to monoecious plants, but all with female
inflorescence, Xm/X;
- female plants with inflorescence of female type, X/X. "

They talk about Molecular markers in sex identification of hemp plants.

Some say joshuahazen breeding techniques are not effective. I disagree. He follows many of the techniques of Luther Burbank. Luther Burbank got RESULTS. I don't care how many papers you've read or written. People who get results deserve our attention.

 

[GMT]

http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/content/86/2/211.full.pdf

 

[joshuahazen]

You are such an ass. I didn't lie about a SINGLE thing in this 120+ page trainwreck. I spoke truth to power. I don't know jack about genetics? I guess the ignorant are often confused with Sam the Skunkman. Get real!




And how did they authenticate the XXXY's? Please enlighten me. What technique did they use?

The idea that diploid cannabis can only be pure male or pure female is hilarious. I'm sure there's NEVER been a monoecious line of hemp that is diploid. There sure are a lot of tetraploid hemp out there, right guys?

Your piss poor understanding of archaic research that doesn't even meet the threshold to be published in this day and age doesn't impress me.

Yeah, I'm sure scientists are arguing if the mutagens caused mutations or just allowed natural tetraploids to 'express' themselves. That's just a huge debate these days.




Um, what lies?




I'm willing to bet a few thousand bucks that I'm growing more plants this year than anyone in this thread. At least until Tom Hill gets in here. Sorry, I'm in a legal state with a 15,000 sq ft warehouse with a state license to grow linked to two separate dispensaries. And we're looking at buying two more. Awww, shit; looks like the nerd knows his stuff AND works harder than you.

So you want to post the tents you have to hide in your basement?

Just because your arrogance has a foundation doesn't make it justified.

You have a gigantic facility and you are growing legally.

You don't appreciate the sacrifice that Nevil and people like him have made so that you may grow out those genetics with no risk to your own personal freedoms.
You come here on a high horse and step all over a living legend. You owe him so much more than that. The fact that you are a legitimate grower just makes your position that much more repulsive and hypocritical. How disrespectful ungrateful you are.



This is my last post on this thread

 

[GreenintheThumb]

Oscar-
I posted that paper myself here and happened to be reading it again earlier tonight. I think it's funny that you're using those quotes. The Y isn't empty.

"DNA genomic isolated from male and female hemp plants was subjected to RAPD (random
amplification of polymorphic DNA) analysis, cloning, gel blot analysis, hybridization. These analyses
established the existence of a male-associated DNA sequence in Cannabis sativa, named MADC1
(Sakamoto et al,. 1995). Subsequently, Sakamoto et al., 2000 found that fluorescence in situ hybridization
(FISH) with MADC1 as probe generated a clear doublet signal at the end of the long arm of the Y
chromosome. FISH using pachytene chromosomes of pollen mother cells at meiotic prophase I revealed that
pairing of X and Y chromosomes occurred at the short arm of the Y chromosome where MADC1 was not
present. Therefore, the accumulation of a specific male-associated DNA sequence at the terminal region of
the long arm of the Y chromosome might be one cause of heteromorphism of sex chromosomes."

@GMT-
Having never seen these types I'm not going to speculate on other mechanisms that are responsible for their appearance. Especially considering we know nothing about the environment the individual was in. Did it pop one male pod and then outright revere or was it multiple clusters, did the lower part of the plant remain the original sex, was the photoperiod consistent. Too much to speculate on IMO.