cannatari
New member
More on my theory...
Let's hypothetically take some Oaxaca seeds and start cultivating them in an environment that causes them to herm, i.e. the silver enriched soil of the Zacatecas Mountains. Eventually the population would become void of male plants, would it not? Now as cultivators we have no ability to remove male plants so we do the next best thing, promote an early flowering phenotype when there are less pistils to get pollinated. This means that at some point our population has to be reduced to 1 single self-pollinating plant and that everything in the population is from this one plant henceforth with dozens of phenotypes. Each phenotype produces seeds not like itself but a repeat of the same spread of phenotypes, would it not? Regardless if you cross pollinate different phenos from selfed seeds are you able to stabilize the population toward a particular pheno. The progeny not only produce the same set of phenotypes, eventually the phenotypes start to individualize and become more unique from one another. Of course every season we populate with seeds from the most potent bud which inherits into most of the other phenotypes. This is all leading up to a pure purple pheno which is identifiable from the rest because the seed that produces that pheno is in fact purple too. Now we can populate with as much of the purple as we want! Now suppose the purple occurs 1/200 times. If we need 100 purple plants we have to make 20,000 seeds....and we already bred this strain to early flower and make very few seeds...Now we have to carefully collect pollen and become seed-makers. But what should we do with all the extra seeds? Who cares! None of them are purple and there's no way anybody could know the unlikely measures needed to produce a purple seed let alone suspect that their phenotype is even related to the purple phenotype. The other pheno's are still pretty good though, we can trade those with asia and africa, that way even if somebody does figure out how to make purple populations, they'll be on another continent and not interfere with our local concerns. Yeah, and once they see that they don't produce any seeds, they'll call us monks and use their landrace males to propagate it. Ahaha! Let's do it! We could always kick some beans down to our surfing buddies too. Cool, maybe they'll invite us to a Haze tasting party, LOL.
Let's hypothetically take some Oaxaca seeds and start cultivating them in an environment that causes them to herm, i.e. the silver enriched soil of the Zacatecas Mountains. Eventually the population would become void of male plants, would it not? Now as cultivators we have no ability to remove male plants so we do the next best thing, promote an early flowering phenotype when there are less pistils to get pollinated. This means that at some point our population has to be reduced to 1 single self-pollinating plant and that everything in the population is from this one plant henceforth with dozens of phenotypes. Each phenotype produces seeds not like itself but a repeat of the same spread of phenotypes, would it not? Regardless if you cross pollinate different phenos from selfed seeds are you able to stabilize the population toward a particular pheno. The progeny not only produce the same set of phenotypes, eventually the phenotypes start to individualize and become more unique from one another. Of course every season we populate with seeds from the most potent bud which inherits into most of the other phenotypes. This is all leading up to a pure purple pheno which is identifiable from the rest because the seed that produces that pheno is in fact purple too. Now we can populate with as much of the purple as we want! Now suppose the purple occurs 1/200 times. If we need 100 purple plants we have to make 20,000 seeds....and we already bred this strain to early flower and make very few seeds...Now we have to carefully collect pollen and become seed-makers. But what should we do with all the extra seeds? Who cares! None of them are purple and there's no way anybody could know the unlikely measures needed to produce a purple seed let alone suspect that their phenotype is even related to the purple phenotype. The other pheno's are still pretty good though, we can trade those with asia and africa, that way even if somebody does figure out how to make purple populations, they'll be on another continent and not interfere with our local concerns. Yeah, and once they see that they don't produce any seeds, they'll call us monks and use their landrace males to propagate it. Ahaha! Let's do it! We could always kick some beans down to our surfing buddies too. Cool, maybe they'll invite us to a Haze tasting party, LOL.
GUANOIZDASHIZNIT
New member
If haze was available about cali and so many people smoked and grew it then why isnt it all over cali in various forms?. Why didn`t cali haze breeders hybrid it like nevil did. I smoked alot of haze hybrids and i`m smoking chocolope as i type . It tastes like g13haze is haze c male in chocolope/cannalope haze off topic
fxginbcn
Moderator
ok so im not a master grower, just a new one... but i can smoke my fair share in one sitting, and have travelled enough to know some good bud...
so ill share some mexi herb experiences
in Nuevo Laredo, red herb..... reeeeal trippy
in acapulco, goes from shitty shwag to midgrade outdoors, always full of seeds, though quite green, sticky, and stoney...
in cancun, playa del carmen, tulum, and around there, you get good herb, though careful nowadays, as the Zetas gang is everywhere there.... curiously alot of the coke in cancun is run by italian mafia
mexico city: for a long time, real shitty to medium brick weed, smuggled who knows how, grown in fields with thousands of other plants, males and females all mixed up, so super seedy and mostly crappy
there are military outpost surrounding all entrances to mexico city, so all of the best herb remains outside the state of mexico, let alone entering mexico city...
but recently, theres beginning to be a culture of indoor growing in mexico, slowly but surely... its growing
attached is a photo of some herb my cousin bought be for my 30th birthday...very very dense, no seeds, very lemony, not to resiny.... nice high though (couldalso be because of lowered tolerance as was with family and was limited to one joint per day as opposed to the normal whatevermany a day) he said that bag cost him 2000 pesos (around 150 US)... and an image of me smokin it on my bday in acapulco
also smoked some herb in veracruz and in querataro... but wasnt mine, was in joints, all i remember is got high nice happy high... in huixquilucan or something like that, i went to a wedding where the grooms friends had some pretty good smoke... kinda purple
but the goods...
Oaxaca..
ok... puerto escondido is full of surfers, tourists, stoners, lovers and thieves..... amazing waves, cool beach hotels, and decent herb
but take a bus for an hour and a half...
go to pochutla.... from there take a shared taxi to mazunte, zipolite, puerto angel, any of those little beach towns scattered along the coast... there you will find that fire you are searching... at least, it was a dream come true...
ill just tell a quick story and im done...
so i source a fisherman to hook me up... i meet a guy with a van, told me we´d go for a ride... mind you im mexican, with a full on accent and a good handle of local oaxacan accent and lexicon... but no matter how much of a local i try to play off, im still scared shitless when he tells me were in deep trouble if we pass any cops and they see us driving into the jungle together...
after a half hour into the middle of the swamp, jungle whatever, and seeing no people, cars, horses, cows, nothing, we finally arrive at a shack... my connect without a word jumps out of the car, into the house and is there for an eternal 20 minutes before he ran out with a BIG FAT stinky sticky light green pink and shiny cola the size of my forearm... tells me 40 dollars... 500 pesos.... hand him the money
and he takes it, leaves me in his van with the motor running, and goes back into the house without a word said, for another eternal 5 minutes.... i was totally confused, just wanted to get the driver back and go home... not get shot
hehe
he comes back 5 minutes later with at least half a pound of the same fire.... tells me that first herb he showed was just the sample to see if i liked it
there was a ridiculous amount of the best sensimilla herb id ever seen in that bag... this was about 10 years ago or so
ive returned since and havent found anything since... and recently as a grower i think i discovered why
i always go in the summer, middle of rainy season, middle of grow cycle... plants are harvested there late like in december or so...... in the winter the temps never drop below 30 degrees celsius here
that one time i found my fire was in march...
so... there ya go.... just one thing
if you plan on smokin, growin or selling in mexico.... be safe
cops are corrupt
thieves are everywhere
schwag is plentiful
marijuana is equated to heroin there by many people... very big culture gap between herb smokers and nonsmokers
love an respect
Attachments
Dr. Purpur
Active member
Thanks for the Info. I do have oaxaca going now too. It will be hit with Nevilles Haze pollen. Ill take some pics later today of the Oaxaca.
DP
DP
may i ask a couple more questions on oaxaca, mr. fxginben, with my main interest on the political climate in that area? have you had the opportunity to visit recently or do you have family or friends well connected to the area?
during the 70s, for three years in a row, i was fortunate to be able to visit oaxaca. a grand old hotel then sat on the outskirts of the city but i stayed in the city near the zocola (town center). but the route you described is the same as the one i followed. from oaxaca was another plane ride in one of those SLAT aircraft with 8 seats to an air field near pochutla which was no doubt my scariest plane trip ever. this air field was a mountain top and before we landed, soldiers had to chase the cows off of the field. we land amidst the cow pies at the edge of the mountain top but leaving was far worse as the plane literally drives off of the mountain and you felt the nose of the plane dip downward before having enough power to pull up. ended up seaside in another little village that begins with a p, name escapes me atm? there was a major earthquake this trip and many thousands in the area were killed. and back in oaxaca, there were bombings in the zocola and the military showed up. there was an urgency to get foreigners out of the city and this was my last trip. alas. over easter the flowers blossomed around the city and it was beautiful, but there were problems way back then and i wonder how easy and safe a visit is today? mexico is in big trouble trying to enforce laws of the usa but are you safe beyond the border? peace-biteme
during the 70s, for three years in a row, i was fortunate to be able to visit oaxaca. a grand old hotel then sat on the outskirts of the city but i stayed in the city near the zocola (town center). but the route you described is the same as the one i followed. from oaxaca was another plane ride in one of those SLAT aircraft with 8 seats to an air field near pochutla which was no doubt my scariest plane trip ever. this air field was a mountain top and before we landed, soldiers had to chase the cows off of the field. we land amidst the cow pies at the edge of the mountain top but leaving was far worse as the plane literally drives off of the mountain and you felt the nose of the plane dip downward before having enough power to pull up. ended up seaside in another little village that begins with a p, name escapes me atm? there was a major earthquake this trip and many thousands in the area were killed. and back in oaxaca, there were bombings in the zocola and the military showed up. there was an urgency to get foreigners out of the city and this was my last trip. alas. over easter the flowers blossomed around the city and it was beautiful, but there were problems way back then and i wonder how easy and safe a visit is today? mexico is in big trouble trying to enforce laws of the usa but are you safe beyond the border? peace-biteme
cannatari
New member
Thanks fxginbcn, I wish i could say you stopped me from flying to the wrong part of the country.
This doesn't change my theory because the ZP seeds went to Big Sur regardless of where Zacatecas is.
Thanks for sharing your stories, I enjoyed the read.
Peace.
Edit: Whoa, I guess it does change the theory if the area fxginbcn says is the real mexican Zacatecas is not the silver rich mountain range that I thought.
How come I can only find to other Zacatecas? Can you show me on a map where the real Zacatecas is, fxginbcn?
More edit: I see the misunderstanding. I meant that Zacatecas was closer to Cali than Oaxaca and Acapulco are to Cali. Is that correct at least?
Thanks.
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waverunner_21
New member
an interesting thought i had about the surfers and seeds was the The Brotherhood of Eternal Love. They were a group of smuggling surfers, i remembered it because one of them was arrested a few years ago and it made a brief appease in the media, but they were operating from the start of the 60's. il look and find some links.
edit, i just saw that wonka already bought it up
edit, i just saw that wonka already bought it up
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joaquin386
Member
There should be a movie about the BOEL coming out shortly called "orange sunshine"
B
bigherb
Guest
Sorry Kangativa, I was being sarcastic. I was implying that the surfers had Haze and not the seeds that were used to breed Haze. I've always been skeptical of the narrow window of time in between the surfers showing up with seeds from all around the world and the beginning of the Haze Craze for an unknown yet prolific breeder to have created Haze.
Endless Summer is a great movie. I wonder how they funded that trip?
well according to history it doesnt seem like much to laugh at as surfers are known to travel the (cannabis) hot spots of the globe,and spend time in many places which the imports exports pass threw
since the cruz is right next to the beach ,it doesnt seem hard to believe that there was a surfer who got these seeds ,as its thought the originator was a surfer .another interesting note is happyhi has also referred to the surfer boy which is spoke about in R articles
as for your idea of the source being Zacatecas,while its interesting its just not likely.but you can search if you wish soo.i understand your train of thought as this was the same as mine with tracing traits of the punta roja and ive made those basic comparisons .which nevil replied to his thoughts of a thai lineage ,which i was hopin he would get more into .
again as for the date of 66 i doubt the authenticity ,as SAMS post in other words below would disprove his stock traced back to this date ,soo i dont think the date has significance,but Sams has spoke abit about the lines used in ohaze again
,no mention of any mexican except acapulco
so if haze was first grown in 66 why did SAMS first smoke it in 71,let alone claim his first taste of homegrown was in 68 ,more soo i dont recall SAMS actually sayin the exact pedigree since my time here ,but as ive said in post to him his post have been misleading especially if he doesnt agree with his partners RCC version of events,why not correct them
evident below
."
wat i find intersting is there is never mention of a lumboXlumbo which is wat seems that he reports as the purple haze and on top of that its the only line he actually give specifics of aside from AG
,to add it's known to be used in the first hybrid lumbo X mexican so how does that make sense ,when how were the several colombians used?
i believe this post speaks volumes,if he gave the bros the stock to create haze what exactly did he make after 76 ?
a ohaze hybrid IMO,WHICH it seems he sold to nevil
IMO it seems the way he wishes to tell the story he doesnt differetiate the facts of his work's (in holland or after 76) or the brothers exactly ,as you see post of my haze my work ,then you see post of i gave them (the bros)and this is wat was produced
soo i look forward to a book one day for his exact verison of events
i agree IMO Sams has given us some loose facts that have left us to ponder with exaggrated truths and some stuff made up along .but this all could have been easily explained
1luvbigherb
cannatari
New member
Awesome collection of quotes, BigHerb. Thanks for sharing.
I need a little time to digest some of it, there's a lot of good info there.
What I'm mostly debating is the lack of association between BSHW and Haze, regardless of the origin of BSHW. Is it not suspicious that there is this amazing sativa being cultivated 40 miles away from the epicenter of the Haze Craze and it's not being considered a relative to Haze?
Trust me, I'm trying very hard to find a hole in my theory. I welcome anybody's ideas and info that can shoot it down.
Peace.
I need a little time to digest some of it, there's a lot of good info there.
What I'm mostly debating is the lack of association between BSHW and Haze, regardless of the origin of BSHW. Is it not suspicious that there is this amazing sativa being cultivated 40 miles away from the epicenter of the Haze Craze and it's not being considered a relative to Haze?
Trust me, I'm trying very hard to find a hole in my theory. I welcome anybody's ideas and info that can shoot it down.
Peace.
B
bigherb
Guest
enjoy brother
if you look at the theory it isnt really at all possible ,forget about shooting it down there is no supporting evidence to shoot at
i havnt seen anyone familiar with BSHW make any suggestions or post of this,ive seen few reports on her with hashy peppery grape traits if i remember reported
as hempy once told me all sativas arent haze,while this was somthing i knew already it was a somthing i never pondered much (i thought he was abit crazy for da comment) but it made me realize more soo many sativas look similar ,many S.american strains hav similar traits such as mexican/colombians.if you look at DJ SHORTS strains of yesteryear article there is many similarites with the S.A strains
if i recall correctly awhile back when BSHW was of topic it was thought to be a cross of zacateas purple (from a monk) X afghan i think that was the reported gentics of BSHW
but id love to hear more reports of taste/aromas
NOT at all,throughout history of cannabis in americas much of the amazing strains especially in cali have come from right next door,before haze and after
1luvbigherb
Dr. Purpur
Active member
My take on the Haze story was different. I thought Watson first smoked weed in 1971, and thyat was the Haze his neighbors were growing already. The place where He would have lived next to them was on the east side of the freeway, on the hillside just South of Rio Del Mar. Ive looked with satelite but was unable to see any greenhouses from that era .
C
cheesefucker
Guest
Yeah that's what I had read to Dr Purple and if your story is the same as mine the two brothers then later went on to have a falling out where one moved to Mexico and the other more or less stopped growing Haze and moved onto Skunk.
If the Haze brothers were the growers then surely they must of had some curiosity in breeding. Does anyone think that they would of at least given it a go. Or maybe they were just smokers of it then like Big Herb post says.
If the Haze brothers were the growers then surely they must of had some curiosity in breeding. Does anyone think that they would of at least given it a go. Or maybe they were just smokers of it then like Big Herb post says.
bushweed
New member
joaquin386
Member
On the article R speaks of the Haze brothers from the east NOT the "Haze brothers" the growers. Different people. Different Stories.
Maybe he was still in High School and didnt meet the "Haze brothers" until 71. Well I dont think the quotes from SamS are misleading just what the mind can remember.
"I gave them Acapulco Gold,Thai, South Indian seeds, saw the plants, saw their offspring from a Acapulco GoldXColumbian cross, and saw them grown the next year, and many after "
The "haze bros" Could still grow something else apart from O.Haze do you think. If they grow in greenhouses they have plenty of space for some other strains. Normally the simplest answer is the right answer.
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kashrocks
New member
After pondering some more and reading again the HT article by Farmer Green, it finally seems clear to me that in the early 80's Sam and Clarke(?) tried to impersonate the creators of the Original Haze by taking the knickname of "Haze Brothers".
It seems that the Haze Brothers's denomination applied to the genuine growers of the Haze in the mid 60's until the mid 70's is a newer fabrication by the Skunkman since he posts online.
Peace.
K.
It seems that the Haze Brothers's denomination applied to the genuine growers of the Haze in the mid 60's until the mid 70's is a newer fabrication by the Skunkman since he posts online.
Peace.
K.