Mango Haze Seedling Health Problem

L33t

L33t

Well-known member
Hi all

I have 28 Mango Haze seedlings in the garden and as 2 seedlings are showing a problem.So I need your help here.

Let me tell you a few details that may help a bit identfing the source to the problem.The problem shown in the pics , started from early on and it initially affected 1 seedling the one pictured in the first photo but now a second plant showed same symptoms so I am a bit worried as I don't know what is causing it.

The weird thing is that from all the strains I 've grown so far the only other strain that showed the exact same problem was SSH.One of the ssh girls I had had the same symptoms and the problem continued till the end of the plants life. That ssh plant was flushed early on but that didn't help and all leaf growth was affected but the plant had finished on time loaded with healthy flowers so it didn't to seem to suffer much from that problem . So the fact that ssh was the only other strain from all I ve grown up to now and the fact that mh is very closely related to ssh makes me presume that it might have to do with genetics , mutation perhaps , or that these genetics are picky to something that is in the soil mix I use. Some people I asked said it doesn't look like any other common problem like ph/ec etc..and they have seen it before and believe its related to genetics.

Now the MH seedlings are being grown in a 30%-30%-30% soil-coco-perlite mix and they didn't recieve any additional ferts before the first affected seedling exhibited this problem.So the mix isnt too hot for small plants by any means. In fact all plants had shown some slight N deficiency when this problem had already started to appear.
So I 'd say it not from overfertilizing. And it definitely isn't related to overwatering or lack of oxygen in the roots as I try too keep the soil go quite dry during the watering cycles and is never allowed to stay oversaturated for days.The plants receive bottled water so the water is of quite good quality and ph is around 6.8-7.2 ..so I don't thing the problem lies in the water either.


Here are the pics from the 2 affected mh seedlings:

26Day_MH_AffectedSeedling_002.jpg


26Day_MH_AffectedSeedling_001.jpg


The texture of the affected leaves is like touching a dry cloth of some sort and it feels as if there is little water content in them though the plants recieve as water they 'd need.There is some chlorosis(lack of chlorophyll) being exhibited as well in the newest growth too.

What do you think might be causing this?Any comments and advice is welcome so please all feel free to give your opinion.Thanks in advance
 
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Hello L33t,

Out of the 15 beans I put down,one female outta 6 displayed these leaves in the flowering period,it grew out well leaning on the NL/Haze heavy side,

So I think like you say genetic/mutation thing passed down from the NL or Haze,I would say it came from the Haze side though as the one I had stunk up the place of Haze,but was mild compared to the others,medium loose flowers,

But could come from the Sk side,I really dont know,just thought I'd share what I found and think where it may arise from :)

Others look great though,glad some ladies turned up for you,a blonde and brunette:D

peace out bro.
 
Hi Red

Thanx for your input mate. I don't believe its a coincidence that you got similar 'promematic' growth with your MH plants like I did. The fact I had an SSH show similar problem makes me believe its a genetic thing. I d also say it has to come from the Haze side if this is the case. I say this cause the most affected plant is quite hazy and sativa looking perhaps the most sativa looking from the lot at this point..

Maybe not a mutation but perhaps they are picky n responding to something in the soil.
What soil did you use?

Did the problem go away or continued to all growth till the end of the plants cycle? Thank you again Red. :)

All input is welcome so all feel free to give your opinion even if you haven't experienced this problem.
 
Hi man,

Soil BioBizz,

What lead me to think it may be genetic more mutation is it happened later in flower with mine,about the time your at know.

The leaf mutation continued until the end of flowering,but bud size or resin production was not affected,she just didnt compare to the other girls:)

Look forward to what else you find,peace bro.

peace all.
 
Thanx again for the reply RedEye,

I use BioBizz soil myself too both in this MH grow and in my SSH grow and had both strains show this problem. But its not due to the mix being too hot as I said earlier as I only use 30-50% soil in the final potting mix rest is coco n perlite which doesn't have any ferts..Perhaps its something else in the soil though.

With my affected ssh girl, I had the same experience as you , the flower growth was not affected and the trichome production was very good.Like you said it didnt seem to affect the plant much but the affected one wasnt the best of the lot.

It would be nice if Shanti could give his input as well to shed some light on whether this is indeed related to genetics or not.
 
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L33t - did you rinse the coco well before mixing with soil and perlite? I've had issues with the salts in the coco. The fact that only a couple are exhibiting it also points to genetic differences (sensitivity). Have you measured ph/ppm of runoff? If there is any fresh medium lying around, might want to water it and measure that runoff....
grow kindly, ........MrE
 
hi L33t

this is just my opinion but if I had 13 outta 15 seedlings that are growing healthy and no problems,I would just pull them two bad ones and move on,not waisting time/money/space on an inferior plant.

but like I said ,thats just what I would do.
so far they look good cept the two

peace
 
Hello mrE,

thanks a lot for the reply man.

The coco I use is from canna and has a good balanced ph and is ready to use(no salts/is already treated etc) so that shouldn't be cause of the problem. And I 've used the same potting mix (always use fresh) for many grows and with many different strains with no ph problems or anything similar to this. I didn't measure the ph but as long as the water and potting mix have a balanced ph that shouldn't be the prob. And the fact that the problem started before I used any added liquid ferts makes me think its not a ph prob, though I cant be certain on this. I don't have any ph testing kit at the moment , never found the need to use one to be honest, organic ferts and soil always balanced the ph when used ferts carefully and never had any ph probs. Only plants from all I ve grown so far that showed similar symptoms are these MangoHz and that SSH girl I mentioned. That ssh had been flushed and it didnt recover like Red said with his MH..Just went on till the end.

It would be good to check the ph just in case but unfortunately I don't have a meter handy.Too bad though.. I 'd want to be certain its not this thats causing the prob.
 
Hi Scorpion,

Thanx for dropping by mate.

I know what you mean ;)
Id throw em away but I just dont think I ll do that in case they are a special smoke and I have lots of space at the moment .You can never know until you try em right?.. I ll use 2 600w lights in a 2mx1mgrowroom for say around 13-16 females and I am flowering from seed so I have the extra space for these ones so I ll just let em finish even if they dont do very well.Have you ever seen something like this yourself?

Btw I have 2 NH in the same room in the same mix and these dont complain they are green and healthy though small .. so I d say if it was a ph these would be the first to show symptoms imho as they are supposed to be way more picky.
 
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ya man ive seen this before,at different times from different seed from different breeders ,so I do not think it is specific to any one thing .

To the plants, I think this is what we see here,a type of plant defect somewhere along in the cycle of development in the seed .
this defect does not kill but it stunts and shows abnormalities in the plants life cycle. the plant lives,but has a constant challenge to survive against obstacles that do not effect normal healthy plants,
such as disease,insects,drought,cold,wet...
now again Im just giveing my 2 cents ,based on nothing more than observation and personal experience. this is not scientific ,just my opinion.

I keep them sometimes too ,usually depending on what i have invested or the rariety of the seed. if its something I really want to grow i will keep it as long as it lives.but if its an F1 that can be easily replaced with just another order,I grow the healthy ones and let the weak go away.

hope they surprise you and do well.

peace
 
Hi again Scorp.

After having discussed with different people online about this problem i am experiencing I start to think its a virus of some sort.

Here is one of the replies I got on a different online board:

''I think it is one of the mosaic viruses, have there been any thrips, mite or aphids in the grow area. They are the most likely invertebrate vector, while in rare cases it can be carried over in seeds, it is also very easy to passing on the virus by touching the plant after touching tobacco even smoking tobacco in the vicinity of the plant can infect it.

If grown under strong light they can often appear to grow out of it and crop reasonably, it is not wise to keep clones as it can not be got rid of and the vector will build up over time. Great care is needed not to pass on the virus by handling or cutting tools.

The only way of dealing with cleaning infected plants is beyond us as home growers, ie meristem tissue culture.

Pure sats and sat doms are the most susceptible, but all cannabis plants can be infected. Yes other plants coming into contact with infected plants can get infected in turn and yes you can transmit the virus by handling.

Wash your hands after handling tobacco before handling plants. Your choice on whether to pull the infected plants, You know the risks, for sure they are not keepers long term, as you will infect the rest of your stock plants sooner or later.''


Do you guys think this is the case , it is a virus problem?

the leaves color/texture looks like the pics I 've seen online from plants that were affected but tobacco/mosaic type virus. I just didn't think of that when I was trying to find the cause. I smoke tobacco and touch it so I may have caused this myself. Though the growroom is a smoke free area as I never smoke in the room the plants grow , so it must have been from touching the plants after having been in contact with tobacco myself.

By the way I didn't notice any pests ,mites etc so I don't think it has to do with pests it most probably is a virus from what I 've found so far.

I wouldn't want to throw the affected plants away but if its it is possible to transfer the virus to other healthy plants from touching the affected plants then I will do so without a second thought? So if its a virus are you guys aware of any other possible treatment ?
 
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L33t,

First, that is a well written reply you got on another board - feel free to pm me the site ;-)

I agree it looks like the virus described. As soon as I saw your post, grabbed my copy of "Hemp Diseases and Pests: Management and Biological Control" by J.M. McPartland, R..C. Clarke and D.P. Watson. You won't find a better canna specific reference material on the subject!!

I don't have time for a full reply right now, will try and edit this with more detail later, but here are a few tidbits from the Viral Diseases section on pg 143. There's a color plate that looks very similar to your symptoms, called Hemp Streak Virus (HSV). It may be one of the variants (book details HSV, AMV - Alfalfa Mosaic Virus, CMV - cucumber mosaic virus, ArMV - Arabis Mosaic Virus, and HMV - Hemp Mosaic Virus).

Hmmm, right above the section on HSV, closing out the general Viral intro part, is this paragraph:
"A grower in Seattle reported transmitting a virus from tobacco to marijuana (Rosenthal & McPartland 1998). He used the same scissors to trim tobacco and take Cannabis custtings for clones. Symptoms including dwarfing, early senescence, and reduced yields. The virus was problably TRSV, TomRSV, or TSV."

Aphids are a common vector for the viruses as well.

The section closes after "Differential Diagnosis", with "Cultural & Mechanical Control", which states:
" Destroy obviously infeected plants and do not clone them or use their seeds. Viruses migrate into developing seeds, despite assurances to the contrary (Rothenthal High Times 278:95).
Virologists discovered that apical shoots of many plants grow slightly faster than viruses can migrate cell-to-cell. Thus, virus-free material can be obtained by cutting off a tiny piece of shoot tip and regenerating it in tissue culture. This technique has not been attempted in Cannabis....
If virus infestation is suspected, minimize the mechanical spread of viruses by dipping hand tools in a dilute solution of skim milk (100g skim milk powder per liter water). Milk inactivates many plant viruses (Howard et. al. 1994). Eliminate virus vectors, especially aphids, dodder, and nematodes. Cover seedlings with mesh netting to protect them from flying insects. Many weeds harbour symptomless infections, so eradicate them (method 3). Some research claim viruses can be eradicated from infected seeds using thermotheraphy, see method 11."

Given the number of seedlings you've got - I'd chop em!!!

BTW, I ended up with 3 male and 1 female MH (she has great structure so pleased). Just flipped the seedlings and have clones rooted and prevegging.... One (male) seedling was almost a goner, but nursed it for a good while, and it turned out to have very wide leaves (the NL coming out?). Could provide some interesting yellow magic dust.... The single MW was a male, but really like the vigor on that plant, so popping another in the next batch of seedlings (and a NHxMH and a LaNina!). So... really keeping an eye on this thread!!

grow kindly, ......MrE
 
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L33t said:
Hi again Scorp.

After having discussed with different people online about this problem i am experiencing I start to think its a virus of some sort.

Here is one of the replies I got on a different online board:

''I think it is one of the mosaic viruses, have there been any thrips, mite or aphids in the grow area. They are the most likely invertebrate vector, while in rare cases it can be carried over in seeds, it is also very easy to passing on the virus by touching the plant after touching tobacco even smoking tobacco in the vicinity of the plant can infect it.

If grown under strong light they can often appear to grow out of it and crop reasonably, it is not wise to keep clones as it can not be got rid of and the vector will build up over time. Great care is needed not to pass on the virus by handling or cutting tools.

The only way of dealing with cleaning infected plants is beyond us as home growers, ie meristem tissue culture.

Pure sats and sat doms are the most susceptible, but all cannabis plants can be infected. Yes other plants coming into contact with infected plants can get infected in turn and yes you can transmit the virus by handling.

Wash your hands after handling tobacco before handling plants. Your choice on whether to pull the infected plants, You know the risks, for sure they are not keepers long term, as you will infect the rest of your stock plants sooner or later.''


Do you guys think this is the case , it is a virus problem?

the leaves color/texture looks like the pics I 've seen online from plants that were affected but tobacco/mosaic type virus. I just didn't think of that when I was trying to find the cause. I smoke tobacco and touch it so I may have caused this myself. Though the growroom is a smoke free area as I never smoke in the room the plants grow , so it must have been from touching the plants after having been in contact with tobacco myself.

By the way I didn't notice any pests ,mites etc so I don't think it has to do with pests it most probably is a virus from what I 've found so far.

I wouldn't want to throw the affected plants away but if its it is possible to transfer the virus to other healthy plants from touching the affected plants then I will do so without a second thought? So if its a virus are you guys aware of any other possible treatment ?
Click to expand...
I googled Tobacco Mosaic Virus in Images section and found this ...sounds close to right symptoms of your plants.
CMV-BLCMV Cowpea stunt Disease: A severe virus induced disease that is caused by mixed infections with CMV and BLCMV. The disease is prevalent regionally and can cause devastating yield losses. Disease symptoms are characterized by bright chlorosis on primary leaves if the viruses are seedborne. As infections progress, symptoms include severe mosaic, leaf deformation, and blistering, as well as stem necrosis and severe plant stunting. Flowering, pod set, and yields can be dramatically reduced. The viruses are both efficiently aphid transmitted and seedborne.
10_cmv-blcmv_Mosaic_Virus_.JPG

What ya think ?
 
Hi Scorpion

Thanx again for your input.I start to think it really is a viral problem indeed.
Yes I think it is a virus and the tobbacco virus symptoms look like the ones I am experiencing.Similar to the pic you posted.

Another person mentioned 'variegation'.

Here is some info on this :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variegated

In wiki it says this problem can be caused by genetics and is seen in chimeras , that is plants with more than one type of genetic makeup in their tissues and may have to do with mutation. Which makes sense in my case.

But this can also be from viruses like mosaic type viruses , like the tobacco virus. Others mentioned Hemp Streak disease and some other ones.

One guy told me it might be due to high ph at some period during the plants life and this might be the source. What do you think about that? And he also said perhaps a virus was introduced at that period as well.
 
Two of the affected plants were males so I killed those and kept the rest.

Here are the 2 of the three affected females:

30day-mh-affected-plants01.jpg


Many people I asked the last couple of days said it might be ph prob or overfeeding or perhaps a nutrient lock up..still unsure what the cause to the prob is.
 
Scorpion said:
ya man ive seen this before,at different times from different seed from different breeders ,so I do not think it is specific to any one thing .

To the plants, I think this is what we see here,a type of plant defect somewhere along in the cycle of development in the seed .
this defect does not kill but it stunts and shows abnormalities in the plants life cycle. the plant lives,but has a constant challenge to survive against obstacles that do not effect normal healthy plants,
such as disease,insects,drought,cold,wet...
now again Im just giveing my 2 cents ,based on nothing more than observation and personal experience. this is not scientific ,just my opinion.

I keep them sometimes too ,usually depending on what i have invested or the rariety of the seed. if its something I really want to grow i will keep it as long as it lives.but if its an F1 that can be easily replaced with just another order,I grow the healthy ones and let the weak go away.

hope they surprise you and do well.

peace
Click to expand...

I'd say that was a good observation,I'd go with Scorpion's experience and his opinion seems sensible too me,

Hope it's not the virus,as above,but I noticed they look abit better in tonights pic in your main thread,which I was going to say but thought I would keep it all here so to speak :)

Though I dont know if the Haze or NL or Skunk as any tendencies to do this in seed form like say blueberry,just what I came across.

Just my 2pennies worth :D

peace all.
 
redeye24/7 said:
I'd say that was a good observation,I'd go with Scorpion's experience and his opinion seems sensible too me,

Hope it's not the virus,as above,but I noticed they look abit better in tonights pic in your main thread,which I was going to say but thought I would keep it all here so to speak :)

Though I dont know if the Haze or NL or Skunk as any tendencies to do this in seed form like say blueberry,just what I came across.

Just my 2pennies worth :D

peace all.
Click to expand...

Hi Red ,

actually these affected plants look better simply cause they are not the same plants as the ones that are shown in the pics I posted previously in this thread , these here are different plants. The others that were heavily affected were males and tossed in the bin. Hope these affected females are gonna recover or at least I hope they don't get any worse. I just hope its not a virus and the problem spreads to other plants .

Lets wait and see a few days.
 
Oh thats why they look better then,LOL:o

You have enough ladies their to start your own brothel,quarantine those ladies in another room just to be sure ;) I would for the sake of the rest,just incase it is a virus.

peace mate.
 
I agree with you Red ,

I will most probably move them to another room for a few days and place them under few fluoros till I know for sure whats causing the prob.
 
L33t,
I would not say it is a matter of leaf variagation. I have a Grape Krush going right now, and it shows variagated leaves (more severe when I screw up the ph or nutes), as did the first GK I cracked. Saw hints of variagation in a Burmese Pure, but not in other plants. Think the virus assessment sounds quite accurate. Would agree that quarantine sounds prudent. The only thing that worries me is that it was stated in the Clarke reference that these viruses can be transmitted, and may not show symptoms visually. Good luck!
grow kindly, ......MrE
 
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