Fem seeds and there impact on the future of the species known as cannabis.

[b0b_b1tch1n]

omg are you two the same person ? there has been no time past since my post but HOLY HELL YOU HAVE BOTH POSTED ALREADY

im going to block both of you because i feel you are both full of shit copy n paste drama QUEENS

 

[JessE]

omg are you two the same person ? there has been no time past since my post but HOLY HELL YOU HAVE BOTH POSTED ALREADY

im going to block both of you because i feel you are both full of shit copy n paste drama QUEENS

Just when I thought it couldnt get any better lol. So you've got nothing to add to the discussion, you've made an ass out of yourself, and you're going to ignore us? Okay buddy...lmao.

 

[hempy]

omg are you two the same person ? there has been no time past since my post but HOLY HELL YOU HAVE BOTH POSTED ALREADY

im going to block both of you because i feel you are both full of shit copy n paste drama QUEENS

Mate do as you like i am me the bad spelling Aussie that hates smart asses and bull shit i love cannabis and feel that more than not those that like to treat people badly have an agenda what is yours here say it i would like to know be a man .

 

[b0b_b1tch1n]

Just when I thought it couldnt get any better lol. So you've got nothing to add to the discussion, you've made an ass out of yourself, and you're going to ignore us? Okay buddy...lmao.

your a fucking goof jesse , many here refuse to post because of YOU!

ask shanti to go through private mesages and he will tell you that many MANY members pm each other complaining about you

ive added to the discussion and not made an ass out of myself so put words/ideas in other ppls minds you goof

as for hempy's response ,,,, huh ? can you type in english ?

p.s. there you go again posting as 2 ppl (look at the post times AGAIN), get a fukking life JessE

 

[b0b_b1tch1n]

stfu FreshGenetics , read the forums a bit before you add your 2 cents

JessE is notorious for picking fights , but you as a n00b come and try to tell me to Stop starting shit , ,,,, i get it , your prolly another alias under JessE

 

[b0b_b1tch1n]

It's obvious you don't care how you look.

This is the Mr. Nice forum, yes?

Take a step back b0b!

OMG jESSe MADE ANOTHER ID

 

[Donald Mallard]

Nnot sure on that last few posters , maybe some personal issues ..

I have no issues with hempy ,, he is a fellow aussie , a brother, and i certainly respect his input , although sometimes it may not agree with my point of view.

It s ok to debate things and still smile , even disagree , and still smile and be mates . Sometimes we even learn stuff , but we need to keep an open mind and an open ear and think a bit more carefully and yes i agree be more respectful when we post ..

 

[brock1]

Nnot sure on that last few posters , maybe some personal issues ..

I have no issues with hempy ,, he is a fellow aussie , a brother, and i certainly respect his input , although sometimes it may not agree with my point of view.

It s ok to debate things and still smile , even disagree , and still smile and be mates . Sometimes we even learn stuff , but we need to keep an open mind and an open ear and think a bit more carefully and yes i agree be more respectful when we post ..

that's the best post i have read in 3 pages DM. i agree with hempy that its pretty disgraceful the way people act on fem thread. all i have to say is there's good point and bad point to them just like all breading there not perfect and anyone saying they are are liars. hempy took the time to show what he found from taking his to time and experimenting and didn't lie about what he's done. he should be thanked for taking the time to do that and not called a liar. feminizing is a useful breeding tool if used properly but a bad tool if used wrongly. i have seen rooms full of weed pollen and seed just like Nevil seen at sensie as a result of abusing feminizing and that cost me out of my pocket more than once as a result. so telling me there's no bad point wont go far i have seen that happens when feminizing is abused more than once. yet i still use it at times because its a useful tool as well if used properly. the way i see it is a joiner that can only use a hammer isn't a good joiner because he cant use the other tools for the job. just as a breeder that only make femseeds isn't a good breeder because he cant use the rest of the tool box so to speak.


hempy please stay here and continue your breeding with your fem seed. i will place money on the fact in a few generation you will see what i have seen and what Nevil seen at sensi pollen & seed on you entire crop. people will still say its your fault for bad breeding funny thing isn't it. i never heard anyone say that the room at sensi was Nevil's fault for breeding a bad fem line. i wonder what people would of sead if you sead you grow a room full of hermies? no i dont i know what people would of sead and that would be bull shit mate. its just a problem caused from abusing something you shouldn't if you ask me plain and simple and to meany people do it and call themselves good breeder.

 

[Nevil]

Just to clarify things Brock1, Sensi was actually growing the French low THC hemp variety (he was into hemp at the time).
The strain was bred for low THC and hermaphroditism, considered desirable in hemp. Personally, I think it's disgusting, but each to their own.
N.

 

[bonbolos]

hi all

many replies in 1 weekend, that's nice !! the few last posts are a bit less nice but anyway, I'm not really into the fighting.

First of all I would like to appoligize for the very poor post I dit, not very comprehensive when I reread it, some sentences were not even finished..purple haze was on my brain..sorry about that.

then I would like to give some precisions on my thoughts.

I understand very well that some people (hempy) are very cross and disillusioned with what's going on, fem seeds are very poor quality because no work is done on them. It pisses me of to.

But the technique used to produce feminized seeds is not responsible for that (lethality, hermaphrodism and less vigour is due to inbreeding depression et genetic base)
and to explain that was the point of my previous post (but i'm not sure it was clear).

Reversion techniques are used since a long time as is sterility used in other crops. it must be a breeding tool, harvest of seeds that happens to have a 100% ratio of female should just be a consequence of the use of this tool and not the goal. the goal should be to make it possible to do self pollination.

it is very sad that it isn't currently the case. for that I totally agree with hempy.


Jessy you've spoted all the weird sentences and bad explainations and have given good arguments, thanks

to answers to some of your remarks

breeding must not be opposed to loss of diversity, on the contrary, breeders should before anything else be able to maintain their diversity of their germplasme in parallel of using it for breeding purposes, this can be done in various ways, the best one being a dynamic conservation were you cultivate you traditionnal populations isolated from one an other but with open pollination inside the population, this must be done the most individuals as possible to have the best representativness.

breeding is to use the diversity to create new varieties and improved ones. what endangers diversity is the method of cultivation based on mono crops with 1 elite hybrids cultivated on thousands of hectars.

When people talk about feminized seeds, they immidiatly think of a good hybrid, that was taken for sex reversion to be then sleft polinated to produce feminized seeds and sold as femized seeds of this hybride.

what I mean is that it shouldn't be done that way, unfortunatly it is, and this is bad, very bad. I do agree with you

If you agree more studies are needed on the mechanisms of sex expression in cannabis, how can you be here defending the feminized process? A process which has gained in popularity over the last few years in the cannabis industry, yet one, as you admit, has yet to undergo any kind of extensive and rigorous testing?

I do promote this technique and I do promote the need to have more research on it I don't understand why you (Jessy) want to oppose these two ideas, it can go together.

But when I see the evolution of thought that is rising especially in California, I am really starting to think that I will see legalisation and "buisnessisation" (US way) of cannbis in a short period of time.
in that case breeding will become much simpler : as soon as a nice plant is found out, clones will be done and sent everywhere in the world
just like appletrees or vigne (grown from transplants).
and all these questions will be useless!

i see light at the end of the tunnel, the global genepool is far from doomed

I totally agree, but qualified people need to sample it, and use it.


In the end as Jessy said (if I not mistaken) it will be the consummer that suffers from that;

therefore there is a urgent need for regulation and certification of the seeds, regulation will straighten everything and you will be sure of what you'll get.


I really need to get back to my onions...


cheers everybody and please stop arguing, we all love the same thing
and debating is so interessting and rewarding.


Peace love and unity

Bonbolos

 

[krk]

Thanks for your response krk.
Clearly fems are useful to some people in certain circumstances. I'm not calling for a ban, I merely wish to point out some of the possible consequences. A good case in point is Skunk #1. I strongly suspect that at some point the seed used was the result of a selfed plant. Having gone through this genetic bottleneck, Sk1 remains the most prone to hermaphroditic tendencies. If you got hermaphrodites from "shit", it's because there is Skunk in it's pedigree. As a seed breeder, I was always on the lookout for Skunks going Hermaphrodite. Plant sexuality is still poorly understood (at least by me) and there are a number of triggers for this often latent tendency.
But you can't tell me that everyone that buys fem seed is going to stress test it as a professional would before passing the genetics on. People who fear that the gene pool may become polluted with excess hermaphrodites are not delusional.
At Sensi, I saw a large grow room full of Hemp. All hermaphrodites, about 50% male and 50% female on one plant. It'd make you want to puke.
At the same time, I'm against closed minds. Please keep us posted.

I have worked with Sk#1 over the years and love it for all the right reasons.. I also love that "shit" I turned to it after all the good sources for sk#1 dried up. I didnt get any herms in my grow. And only got a couple of male flowers after stressing the hell out of it, in search of a fine female for femming. On a second grow just for stressing.

I totaly agree with you about the growers that will not go to the extra grow to see if there plants will stress herm.. For me and others this is an absolutly nessary step. I know its a problem for most people and many don't do it. I did everything I could think of to try to stress shanti's shit and was very surprised that they held up very well. seeing that there related to the sk#1. There must have been some good work put into them.

Myself with my limited knowledge...I perfer to see fems made by sts or GB fems made from herms or late nanner herms is wrong IMO. Others can do as they wish.

Now back on the subject... There is good reasons to fem seeds for advanced breeding. And most dont need um. Also I have begun using them for outside, and with proper genetics they have been much easier than clones... So I do think there is a need for fems, a demand for fems and I dont think there ever going to leave us.. As for the impact on MJ overall I think its a good thing because now people such as myself will continue to "lock down " fine genes such as Shanti's "shit" right in there own seed vaults, right along side the regualar M/F seed.

Glad to add to the thread...krk

 

[The Sage of the south]

Some of us don't have access to clones nor can we keep any moms indoors and thus fem seeds for a guerilla grower who has humped all his dirt in,dug all his holes himself,and doesn't plan on breeding are a very good choice because then you are guranteed a female crop and that every hole you dug will have a female in it when you go back instead fo half your holes being taken by males.I know several long time guerilla growers that have gone to fems just for this reason plus you can start taking cuttings off them as soon as they branch instead of having to wait for sex to show.As far as a commercial stand point they are very good to have around.

 

[genegenie]

Yo krk,
I've had problems with femmed seeds that came from using GA3,plants with both male and female flowers from the onset of flowering, but I have a few girls that I made from ''overclocking'' or late hermie nanners as you call them and they don't produce nanners,even under stress, unless they're overclocked as well.
By overclocking I mean making my 9-10 week strain flower till at least the 13th or 14th week, at which time she'll produce a few(5-10) male flowers, which doesn't really matter as she's finished by then.

It helped me preserve some genetics as closely as I could when I moved to Oz,although I lost the original cuts in the move, the seeds that came from them using overclocking were just as good as them, plus there was some other pheno's popping up that were worth a look.

Just my 2 cents,
Peace, GG

 

[krk]

GG,
I'm using sts only...

 

[JessE]

Hi all,
As someone previously touched upon, the argument that the feminization process can be a useful tool is being used as an excuse to justify the practices which are wide spread in the cannabis seed industry today. Unfortunately quite a few of these "breeders" only have one "tool" in their tool box. And thats selfing allegedly elite plants. With a cursery glance at one of the main culprits in pushing this unfortunate practice on the general public, there were approximately 20 different options available to the public for acquiring a feminized product. Some of you may or may not be under the impression those who offer these lines know what they are doing, or are qualified breeders. Simply put, all but a very small handful are anything but genuine and qualified. Now how many years have passed since this practice has become main stream? And how many packs of seed do you think are shipped out on a daily basis to all corners of the globe?

As Shanti had mentioned, a genetic crisis could very well be at hand in the not too distant future due to this increasingly popular trend. This is a subject not to be taken lightly, or padded with narrow reasoning which can easily be misconstrued by the majority as to the validity of such practices by those who truly have little business pushing the hermaphroditic varieties that they are. When one shakes a bottle of pop, upon opening it you will find out why that is not a good idea. But its far too late by that point to keep the frazzled soda inside its container. What will any of you do if, or when, we find out the practice so many have condoned by idealistic notions which have little to do with the reality of the current situation, past, present or future, is found to have not been such a good idea after all? You will have pop all over your brand new shirt, and nobody to blame but yourselves! And it will be far too late by that point.

Unfortunately, the right hands are extremely rare in a sea of greedy and unqualified mittens. The notion selfing is an important tool with useful applications has little bearing on the current situation, which is what this thread was initially designed to address. The fact so many options are available to the public, with an ever increasing demand, by those who only have one tool in their tool box. Its in fact their entire tool box. And we're not talking about a small percentage of poorly equipped mechanics, but rather a large pool of folks who have no regard for the true safety of the cannabis pool and a great deal of concern for the amount of cash in their bank accounts.

The myth that your feminized seed is a guaranteed all female crop has been busted long ago, though a conservative effort to push that information to the side by those who stand to gain has occured for sometime. These threads, which do have an impact on the sales which these same individuals stand to gain or lose from, based on what is presented, are often taken off topic by various means in an effort to stiffle the legitimate concerns which have been presented. The last thing these individuals want is for the course to be maintained, now I think many of you have to consider why that is? Nobody is against keeping an open mind, however to continue to justify these snake oil salesmens business practices with idealistic notions, as opposed to those of the realistic nature of the business at hand, only continues to feed the greed of the economic beast.

 

[krk]

The myth that your feminized seed is a guaranteed female crop has been busted long ago.

Sorry but I know many breeder who have never ever had a male or any herms in over 20,000 female seeds.
These are private breeders who don't make mistakes. And these seeds are grown by experinced outdoor growers.

Your grouping a bunch of people together that don't belong. And stating opinions that are not facts. Maybe you need a little gentic reasearch, then you can understand that spreading fems around the globe is no diferent than spreading m/f seed. How quick you forget that breeders like shanti, nevil, dj, tomhill and others worked so hard to breed out herms, as almost all MJ was full of it 40 years ago.

Why don't you blame all breeders who have crossed one landrace to another? Its the same on a genetic level. Fem has little to do with it. Shanti and Nevil are just as much to blame as anyone else for spreading genes around the globe. Sorry but thats a real fact. Your not going to stop seed sales.

you do need a lesson in genetics...sorry but you do. Nevil used to tell people straight up that there were herms in his seed. Herms are quite normal, and have been mailed everywhere long before female seeds. Good female seeds have nothing to do with herms no more than good m/f seed. And in the end the female chrom is the same....

your never going to stop herms in regular seed and never going to stop herms in female seeds... but to be educated is everything...krk

 

[JessE]

you do need a lesson in genetics...sorry but you do. Nevil

Im all eyes and ears. Go ahead and give it too me.

... but to be educated is everything...krk

As I alluded to above, go ahead and explain it to me use since apparently you're educated on the subject.

Im waiting.

 

[b0b_b1tch1n]

Sorry but I know many breeder who have never ever had a male or any herms in over 20,000 female seeds.
These are private breeders who don't make mistakes. And these seeds are grown by experinced outdoor growers.

Your grouping a bunch of people together that don't belong. And stating opinions that are not facts. Maybe you need a little gentic reasearch, then you can understand that spreading fems around the globe is no diferent than spreading m/f seed. How quick you forget that breeders like shanti, nevil, dj, tomhill and others worked so hard to breed out herms, as almost all MJ was full of it 40 years ago.

Why don't you blame all breeders who have crossed one landrace to another? Its the same on a genetic level. Fem has little to do with it. Shanti and Nevil are just as much to blame as anyone else for spreading genes around the globe. Sorry but thats a real fact. Your not going to stop seed sales.

you do need a lesson in genetics...sorry but you do. Nevil used to tell people straight up that there were herms in his seed. Herms are quite normal, and have been mailed everywhere long before female seeds. Good female seeds have nothing to do with herms no more than good m/f seed. And in the end the female chrom is the same....

your never going to stop herms in regular seed and never going to stop herms in female seeds... but to be educated is everything...krk

very well said

 

[krk]

go buy a book I dont have time for someone like you...

And dont quote me like that....picking fights is low buisness. you quote me to look like I'm saying nevil needs a genetic lesson... no you do.

now fix your mistake...

this is not what I said..."you do need a lesson in genetics...sorry but you do. Nevil"

 

[JessE]

Sorry but I know many breeder who have never ever had a male or any herms in over 20,000 female seeds.

This sounds like a bunch of baloney. At 10 - 15 seeds per pack, do you realize how many growers would need to be post their experiences, and how much reading that would require of you, before what you've said above has any shred of truth to it at all? I think you're relying on the word of those whose bank accounts swell with every purchase of their product, as opposed to the true reality of what you're trying to divulge.

And these seeds are grown by experinced outdoor growers.

As mentioned above, with your assertions of 20,000 thousand seeds and no hermaphrodites, quite a bit of reading would be required for there to be any kind of validity at all to your statement. Not to mention some of those you've mentioned can be found exclusively at Icmag.com. A propaganda based website designed to do nothing more, or less, than sell seed. A heavily moderated website at that, which routinely edits, closes threads and condones troll activity specifically designed to smoke screen any claims which are detrimental to their sales. Sorry, but you've clearly got no idea where you're gathering your information from and its true meaning and value.

Maybe you need a little gentic reasearch, then you can understand that spreading fems around the globe is no diferent than spreading m/f seed.

Now there is a bold statement. Obviously you've not paid attention to the discussion thus far. Perhaps you should go back and re-read the thread? There is certainly a major difference between MNS products and the majority who offer fem seed.

Shanti and Nevil are just as much to blame as anyone else for spreading genes around the globe. Sorry but thats a real fact. Your not going to stop seed sales.

I certainly am aware of both Shanti and Nevs impact on spreading genes around the globe. That is hardly the issue at hand. We're talking about the feminized seed trend, not the practice of seed breeding itself. Which as someone had already touched upon, can not be confused with real breeding. Stopping seed sales is not the issue, the problems caused by the feminized seed trend on the future of the genetic pool is.

Good female seeds have nothing to do with herms no

Im looking at that statement as an oxymoron, because as Ive previously mentioned, good feminized seed is few and far between compared to the majority of options available.