SSH and Mango Haze are pedigree breeds incorporating both sides of Haze A and Haze C combinations....in their breeding

I skimmed through this thread looking for a Shanti response, and all I seen was Vlad with 10 post per page... Big disappointment thats all... Definitely not a alt name there bud, was just saying. You guys spammed the hell out of this thread instead of taking it to PM

Ive wondered the same thing about the Mango Haze A.... and have had people call me stupid, and say its the same as SSH its just a different mom... Well Ive seen the post shanti made... On seed finder it has changed a few times, but said A haze... With the sister thing... A5 and C5 are technically sisters from same mom a5 x skC Mango and c5 x skC SSH is what im guessing... Would be easy to maintain the moms and dads..... Skunkhaze is plentiful.... NL5C is plentiful... The a5 cut is everywhere over there apparently... Plus Shanti has a stash of everything anyway..... Neville's Haze could be recreated easily if backup C dad is around.. but Mangohz maybe a little more easy to keep going..

Lately my interest has been in the g13haze... and the whole run Soma had with the male.. I thought it was g13hazeA.... Seen 1 person say it was haze C... but I'm not sure.. I'm still very curious on the current offer... I'm gonna try to test non-registered sending for the 1g g13haze ibl auction win. Too skeered to try registered, and\or send big amounts.. I have mangohaze,mangohaze ibl, and bunch of gold cup wins too but... Wanna dip my feet in the water first.

If only I could get some a5, or AG13...A cut is one thing, but just a taste just for peace of mind lol... Sooo much reading, and digging its insane just for a incense smell :) but no lemon lol.. Just haze,incense,wood. I envy you south holland folk.
 
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Monkeymang333 said:
I skimmed through this thread looking for a Shanti response, and all I seen was Vlad with 10 post per page... Big disappointment thats all... Definitely not a alt name there bud, was just saying. You guys spammed the hell out of this thread instead of taking it to PM

Ive wondered the same thing about the Mango Haze A.... and have had people call me stupid, and say its the same as SSH its just a different mom... Well Ive seen the post shanti made... On seed finder it has changed a few times, but said A haze... With the sister thing... A5 and C5 are technically sisters from same mom a5 x skC Mango and c5 x skC SSH is what im guessing... Would be easy to maintain the moms and dads..... Skunkhaze is plentiful.... NL5C is plentiful... The a5 cut is everywhere over there apparently... Plus Shanti has a stash of everything anyway..... Neville's Haze could be recreated easily if backup C dad is around.. but Mangohz maybe a little more easy to keep going..

Lately my interest has been in the g13haze... and the whole run Soma had with the male.. I thought it was g13hazeA.... Seen 1 person say it was haze C... but I'm not sure.. I'm still very curious on the current offer... I'm gonna try to test non-registered sending for the 1g g13haze ibl auction win. Too skeered to try registered, and\or send big amounts.. I have mangohaze,mangohaze ibl, and bunch of gold cup wins too but... Wanna dip my feet in the water first.

If only I could get some a5, or AG13...A cut is one thing, but just a taste just for peace of mind lol... Sooo much reading, and digging its insane just for a incense smell :) but no lemon lol.. Just haze,incense,wood. I envy you south holland folk.
Click to expand...

Hey monkey.
Nev and Shanti have both posted a bit on this subject already.
Both mums are not in doubt.
C5#1 is mother of ssh.
C5#122 is mother of mango.
( I think they are likely NL5)(NL5/hzC, but that is my guess.)
There is little doubt the mums are both C5 though.
The SSH father was supposed an f4 haze skunk.
That is common enough knowledge also.
The conjecture comes down to the Mango father.
Was it a hzA skunk, or a hzC skunk?

But if you have read Shanti's post already, didn't you understand what he posted?

MNS g13/hz is bred from hzC and is at least a f3, as Shanti bred it from Nev's old sensi(?) stock.
If you are interested in it, why don't you purchase some and play around with it.
I hope you get something worthwhile.
It can throw some nice skunk types, and some real pleasant haze leaning types too.

Soma's male has certainly made an impact on the industry
It's believed that male was bred by Nev as well.
Good luck with your gardening
 
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how dare you question shanti's integrity. ;)
he says its nl5 haze, not nl5 x nl5 haze.

also, no skunk types in g13 haze.
there is no skunk.
and its not f3 or f4, it is "f1"

f1 being that shanti bred both sides of the line from g13 haze, and then brought them back together after f4. at least that is what he told me years ago...
 
i take it you mean nl5 haze?

i didnt get much incense from either line.
they are both haze C derived, and its more of a sweet, pine and citrus type of character.
 
Well that sucks... so I should stick to Mango and Nev haze..... I'm guessing.. Shanti said catpiss to ripe mango spice on g13haze so I figured mango spice is incense. I've been told shanti recommended afghan haze for incense or nevs
 
nevilles haze, sure it has haze A in it.
as for the afghan haze, it is also haze C.

there may be some crosses with an afghan haze A father, but i dont know what they are.
as far as i know everything with afghan haze is haze C.
 
Maybe I'll reverse all the males I find in mango and mango ibl to see how they smell compared to skunkhaze c.. Then hit a haze A pheno from nevilles.. see how that looks and bx to the mango dad. We shall see.. Try to get that incense amplified to the max. Or perhaps g13haze will make a good dad to Nevshaze anyway... Try to solidify a sexy 11-13 week pool of haze.
 
sounds good, but you really may not need to go through all that.
you may find what you want right there in mango haze or NH.

out of 8 or so females, dont remember exactly, from mango haze,
only one of them didnt have a strong haze A influence.
thats what leads me to question it even having a skunk haze C mother.
but maybe i just got an odd assortment, and more C heavy plants can be found.

Nevilles haze has a lot more C in its character, along with occasional A influence.
The nl5 has a lot more influence in the mix as well.

have you reversed males before? what are you doing to accomplish this?
 
jack hairy said:
how dare you question shanti's integrity. ;)
he says its nl5 haze, not nl5 x nl5 haze.

also, no skunk types in g13 haze.
there is no skunk.
and its not f3 or f4, it is "f1"

f1 being that shanti bred both sides of the line from g13 haze, and then brought them back together after f4. at least that is what he told me years ago...
Click to expand...

Jack, if the NL5/hzC was a straight f1 using pure hzC, then it wouldn't mature at 9 weeks.
The original hz/NL5 hybrid took14-16 week to mature.
Anyone with the extensive experience you claim to have with these genetics, actually grown them, would know a f1*f1 combining 2 lines of pure haze C wouldn't be finishing around 65 days.

But I don't actually question Shanti's integrity.
I said that that is my guess ( because I have grown them, so it's not just hypotheory.)

I don't say there is skunk either, in MNS g13/haze.
What is said was it throws a nice skunk type.
I think that g13 may have a bit of Mexican, so a mexighan.
When you combine it with hzC, you can get a *nice skunk type*

If Shanti inbred two lines of g13/hzC for a cpl of gens, then reintroduced them to each other, it isn't f1,
In animal breeding we would call that a line breed.
In plant breeding it is creating an IBL.
For seed purchasing probably easiest to just call it a f3 to save confusion.

As I suggested to monkey/you, just plant the seeds and see what happens.
Hope you/he are able to find something worthwhile.
 
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jack hairy said:
sounds good, but you really may not need to go through all that.
you may find what you want right there in mango haze or NH.

out of 8 or so females, dont remember exactly, from mango haze,
only one of them didnt have a strong haze A influence.
thats what leads me to question it even having a skunk haze C mother.
but maybe i just got an odd assortment, and more C heavy plants can be found.

Nevilles haze has a lot more C in its character, along with occasional A influence.
The nl5 has a lot more influence in the mix as well.

have you reversed males before? what are you doing to accomplish this?
Click to expand...

Jack, if you have planted mango haze, and you think 7/8.of the females run towards hz A.
To the point that you can't believe they have a hzC/skunk father, then good. Problem solved.
If you honestly believe your own senses, why is it even a question to you anymore.
 
you are still very far off on your assumptions.

where do you get your info that the original NL5 haze hybrids took 14-16 weeks?

both C5 and A5 are in the 90-110 day range.
and they are the originals. and are selections, maybe the best examples, and probably lean more to the haze side than the northern lights.
other selections of those crosses could yield plants towards either end of the spectrum, being 60-120 days. either of the extremes being more rare.

skunk is skunk. you might as well say that anything with afghan can get you a "nice skunk type"

so tell me, your "guess" is that shanti is lying about what he is selling?

i am searching these genetics for exactly what you say is not possible, two f1s from haze C combined producing a plant that is around 67 days to flower, like my old jack herer was.
im not sure it can be found in shantis lines, but i will look.
and i dont care too much if it isnt as early, ill take a 120 day plant with that quality in a heartbeat.
 
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I was lucky enough to come across some of the original seed bank nl5/hz hybrid in early 90's.
And it did run 14-16 weeks.
I think Nev then chose breeding males that were actually nl5/hzC, in his Sensi and Greenhouse work.
To tame haze for commercial use under artificial light.

So sorry to break it to you, but I think that the C5 and A5 cuts are therefore NL5)(NL5/hz.
The pure haze is a true late maturing sativa type.
It takes too long, grows too tall and doesn't bloom tight enough, or yield enough on its own.
But I would like to leave it there please.
We have both offered different opinions. And I have offered my logic to support my opinion.
But if we can't agree, then I accept that.
It isn't debate to continue, it's only argument.
So let's leave it that we simply don't agree.

I have seen g13 pure described as an old school skunk type.
Also NL5
Also Cali O
Train wreck and many more.
Skunk came out of NorCal in the 70-80's.
There was a heap of Afghan being introduced to localised Mexican and Colombian strain coming out of there at that time.
But this just comes down to semantics.
If we don't agree on terminology, then fair enough.
True debate is difficult if you bicker over logical and linguistic semantics ( what is skunk )
I've even seen widow described as an old school skunk, so go figure.

I don't guess Shanti is lying at all.
I think he describes his breeding adequately.
Certainly for the majority of people. Many couldn't understand the complexity, probably. It is certainly described well enough, I feel.
He doesn't pretend there is stuff that isn't in there at all.
Like using a trendy name (Mullum madness say) to sell bunkum. (like kanga did)
It doesn't pain me the way it does you, though.
I am hunting for various strains to use in medical support.
Ease of growth and effect in an actual plant is what really matters to me, personally.

If all you want in life is a <70 day cut of Jack to rival your long lost love, I question your approach.
You say in the last 10 years you have only germinated 25 Jack Herer beans.
But you tell story after story of you throwing Nevil Haze and Punto Rojo pollen over mango haze or whatever.
Do you actually ever select from any of these beans you have produced?
Wouldn't it be easier to just germinate some more Jack Herer seeds?
Or just go and buy someone else's elite Jack cut?

Good luck with your gardening mate.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
## Jack, also I said the original hybrid from seed bank ran 14-16 weeks.
That is 98-112 days.
You say this is incorrect because c5 and a5 bloom 90-110 days, out to 120.
Which actually supports what I say, that it shouldn't bloom consistently at <70 days.

Are you just arguing for fun?

Maybe monkey can throw you a few more softballs.
 
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Yeah, I'm having high expectations for mango... I was gonna get several packs of it, but... I think 1 Mango, 1 Mango IBL should give me at least a solid idea. So I can look into other things at the same time...

Haven't had a chance to reverse anything yet, but if any males are worth it.. I'd say MNS has the ones worth investing the effort..

I'm hoping the mango is so good its a wasteful to breed with because it can only get worse lol.. Can't get any better..

The Nev's I'm just looking at as a training plant, that I can practice proper nutrient levels to satisfy sativa, dial my room in, and see them in prime before I start judging other pure landrace sativas for breeding. I think hunting through several packs of Neville's would give the holy grail sativa overall... Mango being the express lane, and treat in a different taste category.

G13haze sounds exciting too... Would like to find some g13like phenos that have enough haze influence to have more stretch but still columnar (Sog style) with a notch of good cerebral magic to them... Of course also, some good Sativa phenos with just enough touch of G13 to remain on a thin sativa frame, but give only more trich+noids+terps..
Theres definitely a good range that haze can fall under...
I try to find as many terpene analyses as I can find on these hazes, but its hard.. There seems to be a Linalool heavy style haze... A heavy Pinene style haze..... and high Terpinolene style haze.... high Myrcene with limonene.
We'll see

I'd like to hear your experience with the different style hazes, and what strain that had it...... Lemony...Pissy....Mango.. Spicey....Piney
 
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well vlad, what you think happened and what actually did may not be the same thing, seems a common occurrence when talking to you.

keep throwing out your opinions, they are interesting. C5 and A5 are northern lights backcrosses? i think you are the only person that believes this.

no one said "consistently" <70 days except you.
but it is certainly a thing, even if its not frequent.

i refuse to support sensi seed, so thats why i havent gone through any more. i would certainly grab a cut or seeds if someone offered them, but i wont ever give them another cent. so i look elsewhere...

ive grown out a few of the seeds ive made, and some good plants came from them.
i can show cuts of all the selections ive made over the last decade.
maybe i will one day.
angels breath
skunk haze
g13 haze
SSH
mango haze
nevilles haze selection is ongoing
NH x mango selection is ongoing
gorillafuck
cookies and creme/ogkb
oaxacan x mullumbimby madness
NH35 x MMs
NH x kariba
zamal malawi thai haze mullum
highland mexican x blueberry
PNG
(black rose x purple wreck) x NH

those are just the females, so yeah, ive been plenty busy.
just getting back around to more mns stuff.
 
Last thing I want to say on this to you mate.
If ssh was a nl5/hzC f1 bred to a skunk/hzC f1 it wouldn't consistently finish at 9 weeks.( *CONSISTENTLY FINISH <70 DAYS*) It would throw from 8-17 weeks.
If mango was a nl5/hzC f1 bred to a skunk/hzC or hzA f1 it wouldn't consistently finish at 10 weeks either.
But ssh was designed as a quick finishing commercial haze polyhybrid.
The same as mango is a quick finishing haze polyhybrid.

I put my logic up.
You don't have an open mind to even consider it.
A hz f1*hz f1 would throw shit every which way.

I'm not stating it as gospel fact, it is merely theory. How could I know anymore than you.
It is Shanti and Nev business. And neither of them are speaking up on it.
For all I know what you call a5 and c5 could be S1 anyway. Who can even say what people are holding after 30 years. Would most people holding c5 or a5 truly know?

But I'm not as invested as you.
I'm happy to trust Shanti and MNS to provide me with the best available haze stock @2020. Whatever it may be.

If you truly wanted to debate, you would be gracious to others, to try and understand their logic.
And keep an open mind.

Take care Jack.
And good luck with your gardening.
 
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I try to understand everyone, thats the only reason im still responding to you.
dont forget, you are the one that chose to come into the threads i started and respond.
and what was the purpose?

you continue to show how little you know about these lines.

SSH wasnt designed as a quick finishing haze hybrid.
faster than pure haze, sure.
it is what it is, and that is a mix of nl5, skunk, and haze C.
the mix of those genes you select is up to you.
you may get a fast one that has the haze quality, sure.
you may also get a long flowering nl5/skunk type.

the SSH female i selected takes 120 days, how about yours?
the SSH male i selected dropped pollen later than the punto rojo male.
ssh doesnt consistently finish in 9 weeks, you seem to think it does?
MH doesnt consistently finish in 10 weeks, do you think it does?

what do you think shanti was working on MH inbred for, long flower times? ;)

just like you say later, and contradict yourself, a hz f1 x hz f1 would throw every which way. and it does. NL5 phenos, skunk phenos, haze phenos, all ranging from 60-120 days
but another thing to take into consideration is selection, the actual plants used.
tagging plants with the names of this x this does little to explain to you their true character or nature.

lets hope you are a man of your word and that is the last thing you want to say on this to me, mate.
 
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Well you said you have an open mind, and enjoy debate.
So I will try and clear your misunderstanding of my last post.

2019 is a very different t world from early 1990's.
A lot of people online say Shanti is not a good breeder, and can not breed consistent seed. I see it the opposite, that he is keeping as much variability as possible.
So now he breeds a lot of various phenos. But ppl used to prefer a lot tighter spreads.
Many precincts are legal now, so growing plants longer than 10 weeks isn't only possible, but preferred.
So you get the wide phenotype spread you see now.
Shanti may be breeding his haze differently now.
Using multiple males over multiple females, of IBL type, to add variability.
I don't know, and I'm not saying he does, so please don't jump on me for that.

You mention that he had gone out of his way to breed a later maturing mango.

You also have mentioned that you are a young man still, and have only been around weed for little over a decade.

But pre 2000 it was a different world entirely.
People grew illicitly, and liked therir crops to come in earlier.
10 weeks was almost a late maturing indoor plant.
So Greenhouse ssh was a different kettle of fish.
Those days the ssh certainly had commercial character.
And it was centred on a 63 day high yielding phenotype.
Just as MNS still describes it as a 8-10 week strain.
I think Nev did have certain requirements that he fulfilled in his selection, and one of then was precocious bloom time.

So I think that Nev DESIGNRD it through his selection. With certain parameters in mind.

But I said to you before, none of this really matters.
Not really.

In a recent post, you reckon mango is so hzA dominant you are not even sure it has a hzC* mum.
If you are trying to discover truth, it seems this thread is meandering further away than ever.

I accept you have a different point of view. You don't have to agree with me.
Can you debate in good faith please.
I am not trying to argue with you.
 
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jack hairy said:
sounds good, but you really may not need to go through all that.
you may find what you want right there in mango haze or NH.

out of 8 or so females, dont remember exactly, from mango haze,
only one of them didnt have a strong haze A influence.
thats what leads me to question it even having a skunk haze C mother.
but maybe i just got an odd assortment, and more C heavy plants can be found.

Nevilles haze has a lot more C in its character, along with occasional A influence.
The nl5 has a lot more influence in the mix as well.

have you reversed males before? what are you doing to accomplish this?
Click to expand...

If you are just here for facts, then OK. If you want to make conjecture, then OK too

As far as I understand, both ssh and mango have NL5/hzC mums (however the haze was prepared)

And SSH haze had a hzC*skunk dad.

So this thread is basically to confirm whether mango's dad was a skunk*hzC or hzA?
Correct?
 
Monkeymang333 said:
I skimmed through this thread looking for a Shanti response, and all I seen was Vlad with 10 post per page... Big disappointment thats all... Definitely not a alt name there bud, was just saying. You guys spammed the hell out of this thread instead of taking it to PM

Ive wondered ......
Click to expand...

+1

Vlad the Inhaler said:
Hey monkey.
Nev and Shanti have both posted a bit on this subject already.
Both mums are not in doubt.
C5#1 is mother of ssh.
C5#122 is mother of mango.
( I think they are likely NL5)(NL5/hzC, but that is my guess.)
There is little doubt the mums are both C5 though.
The SSH father was supposed an f4 haze skunk.
That is common enough knowledge also.
The conjecture comes down to the Mango father.
Was it a hzA skunk, or a hzC skunk?

But if you have read Shanti's ......
Click to expand...

+1 also, nice summary and observation, it's cool to have you debating with Jack Hairy nicely. Don't get me wrong, I'm not starting a "beef" with you or taking side with JH, I just love this forum for many years now, very nice people and so much info. We have to keep it that way, a nice place with nice people sharing the same love for this plant.

From my little experience, and if we have the same "view" about what is an "incense" pheno, here what I can say:

Afghan Haze: I don't remember them being "incense" but more lemony/pine, but I did not grow this strain so much. Buds were more dense than SH
Skunk Haze was metallic but I had one very Haze leaning, citrus/pine the same way C5 with this after taste a bit "metallic". Lot of diversity (F1??).
SSH: Not so much experience with her, only a few seeds popped. I remember them being a good mix with some good yielding one, but I did not find a good one.
NL5xHaze: Maybe a good bet to find an incense one, some were clearly pine/citrus, but some has this kind of incense odor, especially when it's burning, when you are entering the smoking room you can smell this special odor, church like.
MH: I spend quiet some time with this line, and most of them had a "mango" kind of taste, late to finish (100 days approximately) and despite this fact, buds were quiet dense/compact. Not so much diversity in taste, to me it is the most "stable" MNS strain I grew, and I don't believe it's F1 cause of it.
I did MHI too but I can remember only one girl, a good one, long spears, good yield, late finisher, taste was a bit different from MH, and less compact. If I remember correctly I had other MHI and they were less dense than MH too.
Finally NH, few girls popped, I had one very C5 like but denser, good yielding and long flowering, one was quicker (80-85 days from seed) with corn style bud, dense, and a strange nut/earthy taste. I also found one very very similar to the one I call 5C122, same shape, very stretchy, and almost the same taste (a bit darker/less nice/smooth than 5C122). Lot of diversity and a good work of selection but you can find some gems for sure.

I agree the C5, A5 and 5C122 I have could be S1 (fem?) or not the original, but I trust people who gave them to me. According to that, I found C5 and A5 very similar in many way and on the other hand, 5C122 was the one I prefer and quiet different too. More tasty, really special.

I'm no breeder but to me, an F1 give you a lot of variability and a great way to select the one you love. That's why it's important to know. Every strain is made with a purpose. Some for commercial crop, some for the high/stone, some for taste etc... The more info we have the best it is.

Concerning Incense pheno, I would say it's more a Haze C thing than Haze A, but I can be wrong. And I would go for NL5xHaze or NH or maybe AH, NH would be the most difficult with more selection work.
An other guess, I think if Jack Herer was so special back in the day it's of course because of it's good mother (NL5xHaze?) but especially the father. How many seedlings were made with NL5xHaze as a mother? I think a lot. But I have always heard about how Jack Herer was special. This match between this mom and this dad was something "different".
 
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