Haze A or Haze C in Afghan Haze crosses ?

S

Sirius C

New member
Hello fellows mr nice growers !

I hope life is treating you good, i wish to ask some questions about the pedigree of the Afghan Haze crosses please, im very interested about Afghan Haze, ASH ans Angel's Breathe but im not sure of the true pedigree and its an important point i wish to know as i will consider to cross some of these strains together for my personal use and hobby breeding.

What i understand is Afghan Haze curently offered is made with Haze C (im a big Haze C fan, saw my name ? ;):D) but i would like to know if Afghan Haze A exists and if it is used in ASH and Angel's Breathe, i saw other strains have Afghan Haze in their pedigree too : Critical Haze, Early Haze, Master Kaze.
thank you and may be the Haze force be with you :)
 
The strains that have AH as a parent are all afghan hazeA. The pure cross is afghan x HazeC. If you are interested in lots of hazeA, look into angels breathe and the doors, I think both have like 37.5 % hazeA if you look at the parents.
 
wwwwww said:
The strains that have AH as a parent are all afghan hazeA. The pure cross is afghan x HazeC. If you are interested in lots of hazeA, look into angels breathe and the doors, I think both have like 37.5 % hazeA if you look at the parents.
Click to expand...


G `day Dubya

Afghan Haze is Haze C .

Angel Heart and Angel Breathe gain Haze A through the Mango .

Mango Haze NL #5 x Hz C X Sk x Haze A .

Nevil`s Haze and Mango Haze have Haze A from their father .

Thanks for sharin

EB .
 
Hello Sirius C. Don't forget Afghan Skunk Haze, which is also fathered by an Afghan Haze male. I have yet to see a grow report for this strain but considering the description says most of the plants will express as haze, it sounds interesting. And it might be the best route to find F2s that resemble Haze A.

Elmer doesn't subscribe to the theory that the Afghan Haze male used in MNS crosses is Afghan x Haze A. I've never seen Shanti weigh in on the issue, but you should read the thread that spawned these two quotes from Scorpion:

Scorpion said:
Any hybrid with AfghanHaze as the father is AfghanHazeA

MNS Afghan x Haze F1 is HazeC

you can only get Haze A in poly hybrid crosses...
and
You cannot get any 1to1 Haze A hybrid....in seed form,
unless Shanti gives you his old seed from Nevil and I think that is very unlikely.
Dont U?
because Haze A is dead
so no new seed can be made from this male
but his grandchildren are available in seed.

ASH
AngelBreath
Critical Haze
Early Haze >>>>>>> All Haze A grandchildren
Master Kaze
Mango Haze


Skunk x Haze f1 is HazeC
G13Haze is G13sk x HazeC
Click to expand...

When asked where he got that information, Scorpion responded:

Scorpion said:
in pm,which I will not post.
Several years ago,I specificily asked SB for a 1 to 1 Haze A seed.
He told me Haze A was dead and that was not possible,
so he sent me ASH,which he recommended highly.
ASH linebreeds AfghanT
which is basically
AfghanSkunk X AfghanHazeA
Click to expand...

Like everyone except Shanti, I don't know the definitive answer. I will say that if this is true, then Angels Breathe is 37.5% Haze A and 12.5% Haze C. And my recent Angels Breathe grow gave me only one of seven females that had a floral smell consistent with classic Haze C aromas, while the rest of the females had leathery, metallic, dark spice aromas that are consistent with what I've read about Haze A. So my very limited experience supports what Scorpion says.

It would be great if Shanti would clear this up for us but don't hold your breath.
 
yeah, im a bit dissappointed that i cant get an answer to this.
i grew some angels breath, i do not believe it has more haze A in it than nevils haze.

nevils haze gets the A from mother, not father, elmer.

i asked shanti, and if what he replied was the truth, g13 haze is not made from g13sk x haze C, rather it is an ibl of g13xhazeC.

so scorpions info is not entirely accurate, there could be other errors.
 
and if shanti had and used an afghan x Haze A male, why wouldnt he cross it to the nl5 x Haze A female (mother of nevils haze) to come up with a 50% haze A hybrid?
 
Marcus_in_the_Darkus said:
Hello Sirius C. Don't forget Afghan Skunk Haze, which is also fathered by an Afghan Haze male. I have yet to see a grow report for this strain but considering the description says most of the plants will express as haze, it sounds interesting. And it might be the best route to find F2s that resemble Haze A.

Elmer doesn't subscribe to the theory that the Afghan Haze male used in MNS crosses is Afghan x Haze A. I've never seen Shanti weigh in on the issue, but you should read the thread that spawned these two quotes from Scorpion:



When asked where he got that information, Scorpion responded:



Like everyone except Shanti, I don't know the definitive answer. I will say that if this is true, then Angels Breathe is 37.5% Haze A and 12.5% Haze C. And my recent Angels Breathe grow gave me only one of seven females that had a floral smell consistent with classic Haze C aromas, while the rest of the females had leathery, metallic, dark spice aromas that are consistent with what I've read about Haze A. So my very limited experience supports what Scorpion says.

It would be great if Shanti would clear this up for us but don't hold your breath.
Click to expand...

G `day Folks

I grew some ASH .
Also some Angel Hearts , Critical Haze , NL Hz , Mango Haze , Nevil`s Haze / Mango , G13 Haze C and Mango Widow .
As well as NL Hz x La Nina , NL Hz x Ortega . AG13 x La Nina , Hash Plant Haze x La nina . AG13 x HpH z x Haze AC . NL Hz x Malawi . Made with the original cuts .

Shanti was gifting ASH with orders back in the day . Never heard a peep about Haze A .

re Scorpion .
Shanti never said Haze A . Just sent a freebie tester like he did for lots of other folks .

I have some Mango Haze growing ATM .

Thanks for sharin

EB .
 
Last edited:
Thank you all for your answers, i see im not the only one with these questions :p

wwwwww said:
The strains that have AH as a parent are all afghan hazeA. The pure cross is afghan x HazeC. If you are interested in lots of hazeA, look into angels breathe and the doors, I think both have like 37.5 % hazeA if you look at the parents.
Click to expand...

So if the Afghan Haze used in all crosses is (Af x HzA), Angel's Breathe has more HzA than The Doors, it looks like AB is the strain with the more HzA in it pedigree, interesting

Angel's Breathe :[(NL5 x HzC) x (Sk x HzA)] x [Af x HzA]
The Doors : [NL5 x HzC] x [(NL5 x HzA) x (Sk x HzC)] assuming the father of the AC is (Sk x HzC) and not [(Sk x HzC) x HzC].

Elmer Bud said:
G `day Dubya

Afghan Haze is Haze C .

Angel Heart and Angel Breathe gain Haze A through the Mango .

Mango Haze NL #5 x Hz C X Sk x Haze A .

Nevil`s Haze and Mango Haze have Haze A from their father .

Thanks for sharin

EB .
Click to expand...

And Angel's Breathe gain HzA through Afghan Haze too if all crosses using Afghan Haze use (Af x HzA), it seems Shantibaba confirmed this to the member Scorpion.

Nevil's Haze is [(NL5 x HzA) x HzC] maybe you confused the pedigree

Marcus_in_the_Darkus said:
Hello Sirius C. Don't forget Afghan Skunk Haze, which is also fathered by an Afghan Haze male. I have yet to see a grow report for this strain but considering the description says most of the plants will express as haze, it sounds interesting. And it might be the best route to find F2s that resemble Haze A.

Elmer doesn't subscribe to the theory that the Afghan Haze male used in MNS crosses is Afghan x Haze A. I've never seen Shanti weigh in on the issue, but you should read the thread that spawned these two quotes from Scorpion:



When asked where he got that information, Scorpion responded:



Like everyone except Shanti, I don't know the definitive answer. I will say that if this is true, then Angels Breathe is 37.5% Haze A and 12.5% Haze C. And my recent Angels Breathe grow gave me only one of seven females that had a floral smell consistent with classic Haze C aromas, while the rest of the females had leathery, metallic, dark spice aromas that are consistent with what I've read about Haze A. So my very limited experience supports what Scorpion says.

It would be great if Shanti would clear this up for us but don't hold your breath.
Click to expand...

Hello Marcus, thank you for your help and for your experience with Angel's Breathe, its a very underated strain it seems and the strain with the more HzA so your description of the aromas are very interesting.

Do you meaned ASH when you said Afghan Skunk Haze ? ASH looks like a perfect blend of Afghan Skunk and Afghan Haze where you can find both phenotypes.

jack hairy said:
yeah, im a bit dissappointed that i cant get an answer to this.
i grew some angels breath, i do not believe it has more haze A in it than nevils haze.

nevils haze gets the A from mother, not father, elmer.

i asked shanti, and if what he replied was the truth, g13 haze is not made from g13sk x haze C, rather it is an ibl of g13xhazeC.

so scorpions info is not entirely accurate, there could be other errors.
Click to expand...

jack hairy said:
and if shanti had and used an afghan x Haze A male, why wouldnt he cross it to the nl5 x Haze A female (mother of nevils haze) to come up with a 50% haze A hybrid?
Click to expand...

good question maybe doubling up on the "A" doesn't give good things easily ?

I think there is one thing we should not forget, % of HzA (or something else) is one thing on paper but its the dominance or the recesivity of genes who matters in the end.

hey here's another one, would you like to talk about Mango Haze inbred ? do we agree its (NL5 x HzC122) x F1 Mango Haze male ?
 
G `day SC

I don`t take that as an affirmative .
Shanti gave out lots of ASH never said a word about Haze A .

It fits your hypothesis so run with it ?

I grew it myself . As well as lots of Haze C and Haze A hybrids . I don`t think ASH is Haze A .

I have smoked the original Haze cuts in the EU spent 3 weeks analyzing and discussing them with guys who have grown haze for 20 plus years .

Personally been growing Haze hybrids for 9 years .

I believe the Afghan in Afghan Haze is an Ortega thang . More related to Maple leaf Indica crossed to Haze C . Afghan T x Haze C

And Af / Sk is the same Afghan or its sister crossed to a Skunk .

Thanks for sharin

EB .
 
Last edited:
yeah, it really comes down to finding out what the pedigree is for mango haze, and then finding out what the deal is with angels breath.

sirious C you seem to believe that mango haze is (NL5xHaze C) x (SkunkxHazeA), but then you go on to say that mango inbred is (NL5xHazeC)x(SkunkxHazeC) then crossed to an f1 mango haze male?
 
i misread what you listed buts its still with the C, where does the A come in? (NL5 x HzC122) x F1 Mango Haze male
i know where some think it comes in with the skunk haze A male.
wish we could get a definitive answer on whether the current mango haze seeds that are for sale are (NL5xHazeC)x(SkunkxHazeC) or (NL5xHazeC)x(SkunkxHazeA)
 
Elmer Bud said:
G `day SC

I don`t take that as an affirmative .
Shanti gave out lots of ASH never said a word about Haze A .

It fits your hypothesis so run with it ?

I grew it myself . As well as lots of Haze C and Haze A hybrids . I don`t think ASH is Haze A .

I have smoked the original Haze cuts in the EU spent 3 weeks analyzing and discussing them with guys who have grown haze for 20 plus years .

Personally been growing Haze hybrids for 9 years .

I believe the Afghan in Afghan Haze is an Ortega thang . More related to Maple leaf Indica crossed to Haze C . Afghan T x Haze C

And Af / Sk is the same Afghan or its sister crossed to a Skunk .

Thanks for sharin

EB .
Click to expand...

Hello Elmer Bud,

Well i trust your experience but scorpion posts seems clear as he has his informations directly from Shantibaba through pm, i dont know i wish i could know for sure about ASH pedigree and others :rolleyes:

Did you like ASH ? it looks like a strain with high yield of high quality flowers where one can find both sativa hybrid and indica hybrid sides/phenotypes.
Here is a quote from Shantibaba about another bred, the AC who gives me confidence that ASH is an exellent bred because combining HzA and HzC gives stellar result. after all, doubling up on the HzC gives more catpiss phenotypes as i read and confirmed in growing Super Silver Haze.

Originally Posted by shantibaba
The male I am using is based on the theory that both Nev and I felt but could never prove and that is that when Haze A and Haze C came together in a breed line from our camp something astonishing always came up. It could also come up with either Haze A but more than that on Haze C...however together it was combined did something more than we predicted.

https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/17-monthly-contests/2539-haze-hybrids-ready-30-testers-closes-20th-october-25.html#post45122

jack hairy said:
yeah, it really comes down to finding out what the pedigree is for mango haze, and then finding out what the deal is with angels breath.

sirious C you seem to believe that mango haze is (NL5xHaze C) x (SkunkxHazeA), but then you go on to say that mango inbred is (NL5xHazeC)x(SkunkxHazeC) then crossed to an f1 mango haze male?
Click to expand...

jack hairy said:
i misread what you listed buts its still with the C, where does the A come in? (NL5 x HzC122) x F1 Mango Haze male
i know where some think it comes in with the skunk haze A male.
wish we could get a definitive answer on whether the current mango haze seeds that are for sale are (NL5xHazeC)x(SkunkxHazeC) or (NL5xHazeC)x(SkunkxHazeA)
Click to expand...

Hello jack hairy,

Yes Mango Haze inbred is a backcross of a Mango Haze F1 male to the mother of Mango Haze aka (NL5xHzC122), both Mango Haze F1 and Mango Haze inbred have HzA from the (Sk x HzA) side.
Again % are not a reflection of the dominance or recessivity of a trait.
from the auction:

Mango Haze Inbred Generation
Inbred generation using female MH select to Male F1 selected seed made by Shantibaba personally.
Tall haze plant expected with good yields.
Unreleased previously in this version

Originally Posted by shantibaba
MH inbred is one part of a back cross i did some 16 months ago when i was playing around to find a 8-9 week cloner. Did not finish this work and there are some gems to find in this seed foresure....not much more info i can offer on this...as i did not test it in this batch, only germination was tested.

You do have permission to quote these two pieces of information if you feel they help clarify things on the respective areas of relevance. Sb

https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/6-breeders-support-information/10755-limited-mango-haze-inbred-generation.html

Mango Haze pedigree has been cleared long time ago and it has been revealed that the pure haze female in La Nina is in fact a Mullumbimby Madness female.

Originally Posted by shantibaba
Hi All

just to clear the air from confusion and before you all go making a legend from myth here is how it was done and is done still....

Nh is made from Haze C male which is made by two pure haze parents from 1969....then the female side of NH is made from Haze A combined to NL5 or NL5Haze A where Haze A was also made by two pure Haze parents also from 1969

Haze A is no longer alive only Haze C male is along with several other different sativa lines.

but plants with the lineage of Haze A are still alive and carrying the genes within.

SSH is made up of Haze C combined to Skunk 1 or Skunk HzC which is the male side, the female side is Haze C combined to NL5 or NL5HzC

the Mango comes from a parallel cross same as SSH but with one difference

Haze A male combined to Sk 1 or Sk HzA being the male plant, the female is NL5HzC....that is the breeding of those three plants

considering the Haze A is no longer a male alive, it still is alive in the ancestry of some of the plants used in all these breeds

I do not have secrets about breeding but given the same seed batches we could all still create something different...it boils down to selection.

La Nina is the widow father breed to a pure Haze female...neither A or C by the way so I hope that clears up all your doubts once and for all.
[...]


https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/nevilles-haze/55-mr-nice-nevilles-haze-3.html#post2064
 
Last edited:
Sirius C said:
Hello Elmer Bud,

Well i trust your experience but scorpion posts seems clear as he has his informations directly from Shantibaba through pm, i dont know i wish i could know for sure about ASH pedigree and others :rolleyes:

Did you like ASH ? it looks like a strain with high yield of high quality flowers where one can find both sativa hybrid and indica hybrid sides/phenotypes.
Here is a quote from Shantibaba about another bred, the AC who gives me confidence that ASH is an exellent bred because combining HzA and HzC gives stellar result. after all, doubling up on the HzC gives more catpiss phenotypes as i read and confirmed in growing Super Silver Haze.

Originally Posted by shantibaba
The male I am using is based on the theory that both Nev and I felt but could never prove and that is that when Haze A and Haze C came together in a breed line from our camp something astonishing always came up. It could also come up with either Haze A but more than that on Haze C...however together it was combined did something more than we predicted.

https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/17-monthly-contests/2539-haze-hybrids-ready-30-testers-closes-20th-october-25.html#post45122





Hello jack hairy,

Yes Mango Haze inbred is a backcross of a Mango Haze F1 male to the mother of Mango Haze aka (NL5xHzC122), both Mango Haze F1 and Mango Haze inbred have HzA from the (Sk x HzA) side.
Again % are not a reflection of the dominance or recessivity of a trait.
from the auction:

Mango Haze Inbred Generation
Inbred generation using female MH select to Male F1 selected seed made by Shantibaba personally.
Tall haze plant expected with good yields.
Unreleased previously in this version

Originally Posted by shantibaba
MH inbred is one part of a back cross i did some 16 months ago when i was playing around to find a 8-9 week cloner. Did not finish this work and there are some gems to find in this seed foresure....not much more info i can offer on this...as i did not test it in this batch, only germination was tested.

You do have permission to quote these two pieces of information if you feel they help clarify things on the respective areas of relevance. Sb

https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/6-breeders-support-information/10755-limited-mango-haze-inbred-generation.html

Mango Haze pedigree has been cleared long time ago and it has been revealed that the pure haze female in La Nina is in fact a Mullumbimby Madness female.

Originally Posted by shantibaba
Hi All

just to clear the air from confusion and before you all go making a legend from myth here is how it was done and is done still....

Nh is made from Haze C male which is made by two pure haze parents from 1969....then the female side of NH is made from Haze A combined to NL5 or NL5Haze A where Haze A was also made by two pure Haze parents also from 1969

Haze A is no longer alive only Haze C male is along with several other different sativa lines.

but plants with the lineage of Haze A are still alive and carrying the genes within.

SSH is made up of Haze C combined to Skunk 1 or Skunk HzC which is the male side, the female side is Haze C combined to NL5 or NL5HzC

the Mango comes from a parallel cross same as SSH but with one difference

Haze A male combined to Sk 1 or Sk HzA being the male plant, the female is NL5HzC....that is the breeding of those three plants

considering the Haze A is no longer a male alive, it still is alive in the ancestry of some of the plants used in all these breeds

I do not have secrets about breeding but given the same seed batches we could all still create something different...it boils down to selection.

La Nina is the widow father breed to a pure Haze female...neither A or C by the way so I hope that clears up all your doubts once and for all.
[...]


https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/nevilles-haze/55-mr-nice-nevilles-haze-3.html#post2064
Click to expand...

G `day S

Once upon a time ...
Shantibaba said ; we have another HAZE at MR Nice . Not related to Haze A or C .Used in the El Nino / La Nina . That turned out to be his version of Mullumbimby Madness .

Thanks for sharin

EB .
 
I would not be able to find them, but there are 2 differents quotes regarding to the father of mango haze, this one says is Sk Hz A, another says: "the same father as SSH" (SkHzC)
 
It's because the beta testers were different than the eventual release. Betas used a different father than ssh, commercial release uses same father as ssh.
 
roverkut said:
ok, I found where it says that mango and ssh have the same father, this is not a quote, but in the description of the strain :rolleyes:

here :D https://www.mrnice.nl/dhtml/strains.php?id=26
" This strain is a parallel line to the Super Silver Haze, i.e. it has the same Haze father and the mother is a sister of the SSH. "
Click to expand...

Hello rovekut,

Well i dont know what to think now :rolleyes: to me strains descriptions were intentionally wrong, the mango haze description is not the same Shantibaba explained in the post i quoted yesterday, Ortega description is strange, La nina is suposed to be a haze female but in fact its a Mullumbimby Madness and medecine man description is even stranger, "A proven Medical marvel for those in need of high levels of the most active cannabinoids such as CBD. Almost toxic at times, so handle with care and don't abuse the medicine man."

CBD the most active cannabinoids ? CBD dont make a strain almost toxic, high THC yes...

Back to Mango Haze, Shantibaba posted the same Mango Haze description at icmag in 2005.

"So here are the first descriptions that Howard also proof read so we all have checked the info and agree.

MR NICE SEEDBANK; ‘MANGO HAZE’

This strain is a parallel line to the Super Silver Haze, i.e. it has the same Haze father and the mother is a sister of the SSH. Accordingly, the genetic makeup of this strain is 25% NL5, 25% Skunk and 50% Haze."

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=16341

In 2008 member L33t has the same question as ours and tried to explained the Mango Haze description from the catalog but im not convinced.

https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-shantibaba-mrnice/278-lineage-mh-ssh-nh.html

Honestly Shantibaba or Shantibaba crew if you read this thread, after so many members spending thousands on you seeds, after all these years, aren't we allowed to know the true lineage of what we bought ? to give false informations is even worse than to give nothing in my opinion. or maybe parents of some strains changed ?

Thank you to help your regular customers and faithfull members

:)
 
Last edited:
"Honestly Shantibaba or Shantibaba crew if you read this thread, after so many members spending thousands on you seeds, after all these years, aren't we allowed to know the true lineage of what we bought ? to give false informations is even worse than to give nothing in my opinion. or maybe parents of some strains changed ?"

This has been asked for at least a decade, at one time nevil was going to do a strain data base even though he was out of the loop for some time, never happened. It would take shantibaba an hour to type out the true code but he obviously deems it unimportant with all the time passed after ALL of the inquiry on the subject. But good luck, maybe you can break through. How many "afghans" do they have and why be so vauge?

A good portion of what's offered here is from seeds given by nevil, you can draw the conclusion I'm sure.
 
Last edited:
yes, i have seen all the quotes from shantibaba directly, and then read the other quotes that contradict what he has said in the past.

so which is the truth?
i tend to think it would be the newer information, but when all you guys post these quotes it doesnt say when it was posted.

Ive pmed shanti directly to ask these questions, however it is not as important to him to answer my questions as it is for him to do whatever else he has going on.
so i will wait and be patient and he can clear up the confusion when he feels like it.
i wanted to order more seeds, but i will wait. no need to support businesses that do not have good customer service. i have more seeds than i could ever grow myself, and more friends with more seeds than i could ever count. One of the things i used to like the most about mns was the open and knowledgeable sharing of information. if you dont have that, and i can find higher quality in other seeds, what am i wasting my time here for? maybe i just need to look through more packs to find something that interests me, but it starts to feel a little bit like sensi.
had the quality and reputation.
but the proof is in the seed.
i havent found proof of anything, and knowledge about pedigrees wouldnt change that.

so if mango haze does not have A in it, at least we can agree that AB does not contain the highest percentage of haze A, that would be left to nevils haze.
 
After all these years and thousands spent, do you feel ripped off? Personally, i wouldn't say jack how I made my crossess.. your all happy enough with what comes from the seed, enough to spend thousands,for years.. does not knowing or being contradicting change the plants that your growing or smoking? Do your own crosses and work out what you need to do yourself.. do you think having A present is enough to bring it out?lol... Colonel Sanders
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top