Haze(ac) question

Ok so i hope im not pushing some invisibe line here, but Shanti stated to me in a PM and i quote

"as for folklore you should only know proof is in a seed not words...but since i was there we went through 1000 seeds to find the SSH and Mango Haze, the 122 is the mango."

This is referring to 1996 i believe when Nevil popped over 1000 seeds. I have read comflicting account as to whether these were NL5HzA or NL5HzC. But i reckon it it was a mixture of things mixed to haze a and c. For exampla where does SkHzC come from??!
Seems that if 122 is mango then it must be a female. Or maybe this joint im smoking is thinking for itself 😁
 
To me reading Shantibaba words shows that the father of nevils mango is a male NL5HzC, the male version of 5Hz122.

SSH : NL5/HzC x Skunk/HzC
MH : NL5/HzC x Skunk/HzA
NH : NL5/HzA x HzC
NM : NH x NL5/HzC
MH Inbred : NL5/HzC x MH
LN : BW x MM
GW : NH x BW
 
PrimalHaze said:
out of curiosity... does anybody when nevilles haze was first offered in seed?

-pH
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I think it would be around 98 maybe earlier cause I'm pretty sure Shanti was with Greenhouse when he released the Nevilles Haze just not sure it may be older than Super Silver Haze which won its first cup in 97.
 
PrimalHaze said:
So did Shanti or Nevil breed nevilles haze?
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Say's it was just Shanti in the description a lot of the strains have Nevil and Shanti's name, I almost think the Haze A and C are cuts Nevil had, but I know the NL#5 was selected from the seeds the original NL#5 cut came from so he may have selected the Hazes himself too.

I'm sure he has said it all before just God knows where you can find it I've tried finding posts of Shantis I've read before its damn near impossible.

But if you don't have an issue with long flower times best to just try it out I've seen a lot more good than bad so its worth a try if the flower times don't bother you. Don't really matter who bred it or exact lineage all that really matters is if you like and many people love it I just have not tried it yet. But now I'm just fucking around with Haze plants indoor so maybe by the winter I just got a Winter cleaning SSH so it will probably take me all summer to select my favorites and try to bring myself to not keep most all. lol
 
PrimalHaze said:
So did Shanti or Nevil breed nevilles haze?
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Nevil first bred it, Shanti now offers it.

hempy said:
Mr nice is the only seed company to produce and offer Neville s haze f1s.

Neville's haze was breed by Neville but at the time when they were being offered threw GHS Neville who is the original breeder of the line breed and produced the seed away from GHS he supplied GHS with the seed and that is why GHS never had any of the haze breeding stock that Aryan has lied about to this day.

Then Shantibaba sold up and left GHS and started Mr nice and got the parents of Neville's haze and other lines from Neville and reproduced the F1s as he alone now has the parent lines to many of Neville's and his own work.


So no other seed company in short produced Neville's haze but Mr nice so 2 people ever produced Neville's haze Neville who then sold the seed to a seed company that being GHS and Mr nice being the only seed company to produce the NH and more.
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http://https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/6-breeders-support-information/10064-inbreeding-nevilles-haze-4.html
 
Thanks BH!

Nevil said:
At least HzA still lives through the NH. But I do regret loosing it prematurely.
Worse was loosing the First Haze female. She was similar in type to HzA, but I suspect a generation earlier. In my mind, it was the Haze archetype. I should have put HzA to that plant. There wasn't anything sweet about FH (First Haze), like the progeny from HzA, she was spicy leathery and people would often recoil if they came into a room where you had been smoking it.
The Haze C was sweeter and generally a better breeding plant because of this, otherwise C and A were equal in quality. HzA hybrids could yield more. In the NH, HzC accounts for 50% of the genetics, yet the predominant good pheno is the HzA type.
I would say that both A and C were from a sibling to FH and I'd guess that the true OH prior to '69 is the spicy leather type which I associate with the Chocolate Buddha Thai of the early'70s. The F1 NH is a time capsule, throwing back to the past glories of the S.E Asian masters IMO. We must use it well.
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Well I went to post a new question and noticed there was still activity on this thread. So let me ask another question. I just finished my first run of La Niña. Out of the 6 beans I popped 3 were male. Of the other 3 I got 2 different phenos and my very first HERMI. Both of the 2 phenos have the same smell and very close in taste. However the flowers couldn't be any more different. There is one that looks like black widow flowers in size and shape. However the other appears pure haze sativa. I like the overall effect of this one better. In the description it sounds like the haze parent used in this cross is different and very vague in details. I'm so pleased with this pheno that I just won a winter cleaning auction. This way I can finish the rest of my open pack the next run and put the new beans in storage. But since I now have to go through sending money ect. I figured I try and find out if there are any other crosses in the stable with this EXACT parent on the haze side? I've just started making my own crosses. But I'm not making anything I can buy from shanti that's just insane. So if someone has more info on this parent or other crosses with it Im eager to hear it.
 
Something still doesnt add up regarding official strain lineage and nomenclature.

And Nevil's contributions here at the forum didnt clear things up, more confused them. And Shanti can be vague to say the least, hell I would be with his work loads. Whatever the answer to the question is, things are not crystal just yet.

OK so we know that #122 came from the 1000 seeds popped when Nevil and Shanti started working together at the time he joined Greenhouse. #122 Shanti selected, Nevil had his own selection. Nevils selection becomes SSH mum, Shanti's Mango mum.

I remember reading somewhere that Haze C male is alive, and that Haze A male is dead. So Shanti could have easily created NL5HzC, or more relevantly a Skunk Haze C (For the AC DAD), as a new selection from old seed or a new combination based on old or new selection. But he definitely cant create any new Haze A crosses from scratch if Haze A is dead. Maybe this is why I keep being led to believe that mass germination must have been a mix of genes containing both A and C genes...

Where does Sk Hz A come from if not from this germination.....

So thats what lead me to believe that the 1000 seed germination which he has personally spoke of, include at the least a NL5hzA selection, as this is where Nevs Haze and SSH both were borne of! That makes more sense than all the missing links that other theories would have unexplained. This explains the parallel lines of SSH and MH, which adds up! It explains the male used to create AC dad, the sisters that make up SSH and Mango Haze respectively,

nevil stated :

"The area for improvement was not the NL5xHz mother, SB already has cuttings of the best ever produced. (the 2 cuttings of NL5HZ Nevil and Shanti selected from the 100 seeds) The improvement would be in the SKxHz father. (My theory - so Haze still there to make improved Skunk cross) Later Skunk versions that were crossed with the Haze were far superior to the Skunk Hazes of the '80s.

So if "Nevil's Haze is a cross using both males (A and C). The mother is made from the Haze A male crossed to Northern Lights #5 - the best indica Nevil has ever found. The male is Haze C - NL5HzA x HzC".

My version of events is the oldest NL5HzA cutting selected as mother to Nevs Haze. Then the later germ of 1000 seeds is to find a new mum, and dad, and thats where #122 and the current NL5HzC mum originates.

My head is spinning... Trying to work this out is worse than a PhD!!!! Maybe this link helps....

http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-shantibaba-mrnice/278-lineage-mh-ssh-nh.html
 
Yeah I gave up figuring that shit out a while ago don't really matter how good someone thinks Haze A/C or NL5 was your not getting the cut you get seeds and unless you have a large selection you will never know the best plant, so really very few have gotten the best of the best yet most like it so it's definitely worth a try if you want to explore Haze's and NH is one of the purest Haze's you will find and really other than landrace it don't get much more sativa.
 
For what it's worth I think the hazeAC♂ adds great things ;) this just judging the difference between the master kush skunk and the stones which is MKSxHzAC

Of course I didn't see the mother, only her sisters. and they were pretty nice, but I really think the stones are a notch or two above them.
 
Al Capone said:
Yeah I gave up figuring that shit out a while ago don't really matter how good someone thinks Haze A/C or NL5 was your not getting the cut you get seeds and unless you have a large selection you will never know the best plant, so really very few have gotten the best of the best yet most like it so it's definitely worth a try if you want to explore Haze's and NH is one of the purest Haze's you will find and really other than landrace it don't get much more sativa.
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PlantManBee said:
For what it's worth I think the hazeAC♂ adds great things ;) this just judging the difference between the master kush skunk and the stones which is MKSxHzAC

Of course I didn't see the mother, only her sisters. and they were pretty nice, but I really think the stones are a notch or two above them.
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Al u r bang on mate. Aint ever gonna be able to see or touch let alone taste the exact originals. But Shanti is good at what he does, so im sure u see a fairly good expression in the offspring. Thats where numbers come into it. A good sample number to see the expressions in all their glory.

PMBee IMHO hazeAC♂ must be very intelligently bred, to pass on the genetics of A and C, when it makes up only 50% of the male parent and therefore only 25% of the (Rock N Roller) offspring... SELECTION, and I think Shanti is considered one of the best in selecting males!!!!

The Cure tastes amazing, but different to anything that I have ever tried, and I think that in the 20 odd years ive been smoking I have tasted most types, flavours, terpenes, aromas whatever you wanna call it. But The Cure is unique in its taste and aroma. I can only attest that to the Haze AC. I had Skunk Haze - not any similarity in taste across all phenos, coz no AC!! And the Afghan is in Med Man, of which I had 2, and there was no similarity there either.
 
Herbsman said:
Where does Sk Hz A come from if not from this germination.....
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There were a lot of crosses made with the 2 haze males (A & C) so I’m sure there was a lot of resulting seed to sort thru and select from. Supposedly the male used for Mango Hz that is offered is Skunk/HzA, with the original MH beta seed the male was Skunk/HzC.

Shanti mentioned he went to an old bag of seeds to make the selections for the HzAC male.
 
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