xx female?

W

WhiteMountains

New member
hi everyone
this is my first post i got a question about xx female
how is it posible a female got 2 x cromosomes one x from female and one from the male to form the pair if the male have only the y cromosome,
so xx female can be found to self pollinating female seeds?
and a 2nd one i have a 3 weeks flowering male (cretan landrace from accurate source) can i colect the pollen from now through the end of the flowering or store only the first pollen from the 3-5 week, i intent to use only the first pollen for fertilization of skunk#1 indica pheno , sativa pheno , and cretan sativa phenos. both sk#1 and the cretan have stressed like hell (male and female). i realy have no good genetics for fertilization but i give it a try with the sk#1.
the first question have nothing to do with the breeding for me i ask coz it bothers me :) thanks for any answers
 
males are xy, that is how you can get an x from the male and female side and have xx.

you can collect pollen for as long as the males drops it,
the sooner you use it the more likely it is to work.
 
thanks for the info i thought that the males are yy thats why i asked, what kind of seeds the male produces are they usable? if they have yx that means they got males and females, right? like the pollinated fems but no xx fems
 
WhiteMountains said:
thanks for the info i thought that the males are yy thats why i asked, what kind of seeds the male produces are they usable? if they have yx that means they got males and females, right? like the pollinated fems but no xx fems
Click to expand...

males don't produce seeds usually just as male humans don't get pregnant.

plants aren't humans and vice versa but the basics of sex are the same. XX = female, XY = male. When your dada gives you a Y you are a son, if dada gives you a X you are a daughter. Mama only gives you one of her 2 X's.

Plants are more flexible in that triploidy and tetraploidy (3 and 4 X's and Y's) are found without severe defect. Not to be confused with unusual leaf patterns which is separate.

XYYY or XYY are typically called super-males. YY if possible is also termed super-male in asparagus. It is speculated that XYYY and XYY are staminate (mostly male flowers) hermaphrodite (environment can induce female flowers).

I couldn't find anything about YY super-male cannabis, and that may be because it does not exist.
 
WhiteMountains said:
hi everyone
this is my first post i got a question about xx female
how is it posible a female got 2 x cromosomes one x from female and one from the male to form the pair if the male have only the y cromosome,
so xx female can be found to self pollinating female seeds?
and a 2nd one i have a 3 weeks flowering male (cretan landrace from accurate source) can i colect the pollen from now through the end of the flowering or store only the first pollen from the 3-5 week, i intent to use only the first pollen for fertilization of skunk#1 indica pheno , sativa pheno , and cretan sativa phenos. both sk#1 and the cretan have stressed like hell (male and female). i realy have no good genetics for fertilization but i give it a try with the sk#1.
the first question have nothing to do with the breeding for me i ask coz it bothers me :) thanks for any answers
Click to expand...

YY usually is a no-go because the X contains important information that many organisms cannot do without. Asparagus can have YY, and coincidentally they are phallic symbols and claimed aphrodisiacs.

In humans XYY is sometimes associated with greater aggression and anti-social behavior. XXY, called Klein Felter, is typically associated with female-leaning attributes like 'man-boobs' or 'smaller balls'. Infertility is common. YY for humans is a 'no-go'.
 
WhiteMountains said:
hi everyone
this is my first post i got a question about xx female
how is it posible a female got 2 x cromosomes one x from female and one from the male to form the pair if the male have only the y cromosome,
so xx female can be found to self pollinating female seeds?
and a 2nd one i have a 3 weeks flowering male (cretan landrace from accurate source) can i colect the pollen from now through the end of the flowering or store only the first pollen from the 3-5 week, i intent to use only the first pollen for fertilization of skunk#1 indica pheno , sativa pheno , and cretan sativa phenos. both sk#1 and the cretan have stressed like hell (male and female). i realy have no good genetics for fertilization but i give it a try with the sk#1.
the first question have nothing to do with the breeding for me i ask coz it bothers me :) thanks for any answers
Click to expand...

Breeding without understanding some basic genetics will not likely yield anything of interest.

This is because some really desirable traits are recessive, and will be lost as you mix and match the strains you like. It is not like oooh this strain tastes like apples, and ooh this strain tastes like oranges-- mix them and get fruit punch.

As an example say you have a giant yielding plant (male)and a delicious low-yieling spicy plant (female). The result may be 0% giant yielding plants because that trait of huge yields happens to be recessive.

Well then you would have to do this [GYP (M) x DLY (F): (M)] x GYP(F). That is when you have a recessive trait you may have to 'insert the trait twice' to observe that desired trait.

You also won't get anywhere without selection. Just mixing and matching what you like without selecting won't work. It is like if you have one tall stupid man, and a short genius woman. Wishful thinking gives us the tall genius kids. I'm not suggesting height or genius is controlled by one gene but you get the point. You will have some mix of kids. The goal is to find the special ones, breed, find the special ones, breed, find the special ones.

Just slamming your two favorite strains is what every 'seed chucker' does. It is not really breeding though many people claim to be breeders.

You have to know what 1:2:1 or 9:3:3:1 or 9:7 might mean counting up the different types of plants. Genetics 101 may be foreign to someone who is new to the subject but very worth learning.
 
Hi All

most informative thread and well done to those partaking in this discussion!

The only thing i wish to add is a tool we have used in the passed for selection of males of a strain. We used giberillic acid on male plants years ago to test to see if the male was a true male or had some intersexed traits associated with it. If you macho spray a male plant and it produces viable seed it will not be considered a true male dominant. So when you find a male plant that you wish to check this is a good initial indicator .

Genetics is mathematics in nature. The basics of this study are easy to follow and give many hobby growers a clearer understanding of what they are seeing in a progeny generation. It makes a hobbyist into a professional due to using and understanding numbers in a natural population. So I would confirm that is it always good to better yourself with learning. Things are not as complicated when you study them, many are pure logic. The biggest benefit i see with people who further their learning on this subject with education and science, is instead of looking at a plant they begin to see the elements that go into a plant and thus break things down into units. By doing this a person can remedy systems, correct the health of the plant and go onto produce excellence in this field. With the knowledge that 2 states in the USA legalized cannabis today, it would only seem logical this plant will be supplying a lot of work for us in the future...so if you are looking for work or know your friends are, it may just be excellent timing to enrol into that course you always wanted to do!

Be well all the best Sb
 
howdy shanti

how you do?

perhap am not to wait long enough with respect to response my PM, but am to see you reply within topics....perhap am to ask here.

at how are a formula to equate at when there are within many unknown value set?

the PM am to wait for reply ask with respect to this unknown value set. mathematic is similar a language, and for relate this value is not easy at when not known.

you speak as a poet, this is great and also for some not great.

positive vibrations
 
shantibaba said:
Hi All

most informative thread and well done to those partaking in this discussion!

The only thing i wish to add is a tool we have used in the passed for selection of males of a strain. We used giberillic acid on male plants years ago to test to see if the male was a true male or had some intersexed traits associated with it. If you macho spray a male plant and it produces viable seed it will not be considered a true male dominant. So when you find a male plant that you wish to check this is a good initial indicator .
Click to expand...

Hi Shanti could you please clarify this part of your statement?

Do you mean a female plant? One that you can't "donk" with silver and make it throw intersex flowers.

Nevil stated in one of his posts that he reversed males to female using ethephon or a similar product. Have you ever done this and if so what were the results?

Not trying to be a smart ass I just want to be accurate.

Cheers :)
 
Jimmy The Gent said:
Nevil stated in one of his posts that he reversed males to female using ethephon or a similar product. Have you ever done this and if so what were the results?

Not trying to be a smart ass I just want to be accurate.

Cheers :)
Click to expand...

I've heard of that making males grow female flowers to help select the best fathers. but I just heard it from a random guy on forums he said you can spray dutch masters reverse on male clones to make them form calyxes so you can better judge the males. I've been trying to find out if that would work but I haven't really seen anything else about it.
 
shantibaba said:
Hi All

most informative thread and well done to those partaking in this discussion!

The only thing i wish to add is a tool we have used in the passed for selection of males of a strain. We used giberillic acid on male plants years ago to test to see if the male was a true male or had some intersexed traits associated with it. If you macho spray a male plant and it produces viable seed it will not be considered a true male dominant. So when you find a male plant that you wish to check this is a good initial indicator .

Genetics is mathematics in nature. The basics of this study are easy to follow and give many hobby growers a clearer understanding of what they are seeing in a progeny generation. It makes a hobbyist into a professional due to using and understanding numbers in a natural population. So I would confirm that is it always good to better yourself with learning. Things are not as complicated when you study them, many are pure logic. The biggest benefit i see with people who further their learning on this subject with education and science, is instead of looking at a plant they begin to see the elements that go into a plant and thus break things down into units. By doing this a person can remedy systems, correct the health of the plant and go onto produce excellence in this field. With the knowledge that 2 states in the USA legalized cannabis today, it would only seem logical this plant will be supplying a lot of work for us in the future...so if you are looking for work or know your friends are, it may just be excellent timing to enrol into that course you always wanted to do!

Be well all the best Sb
Click to expand...

Great practical input from the master SB! Thank you.
 
Jimmy The Gent said:
Hi Shanti could you please clarify this part of your statement?

Do you mean a female plant? One that you can't "donk" with silver and make it throw intersex flowers.

Nevil stated in one of his posts that he reversed males to female using ethephon or a similar product. Have you ever done this and if so what were the results?

Not trying to be a smart ass I just want to be accurate.

Cheers :)
Click to expand...

No, he said GA not colloidal silver. Sex in cannabis is still poorly understood. This is because it is very complex unlike in humans where XX is female, XY is male. You can have triploid (XXX, XXY, XYY, YYY?) and tetraploid (four sets). Moreover, even in pure females, extreme environmental factors can cause male parts to appear.

So there is the X and Y part of sex, but then the speculation is that there are separate genes that can affect plant hormones.

It is like if XX and XY control sex for humans but if there were another allele to fine tune estrogen or testosterone or such human hormone, then man boobs or butchy women may be possible on "pure males" and "pure females". It's not all so clear cut now is it?

So what SB was saying is if you spray GA in large amounts on males, that is a hormone that produces male parts. So if the true male is sprayed with male-ish hormone (to be sloppily lay-worded), it should not be affected. But a male with certain 'female' traits, either because it is triploid or tetraploid or otherwise somehow 'female'-ish or vulnerable to hermy tendencies, then spraying GA will cause the male to self-pollinate and produce seed. This male is undesirable is what SB is saying. He is giving us a piece of breeder gold and practical knowledge of how to get rid of hermies in males.

For females, the traditional way to get rid of hermy tendencies has been to apply environmental stress. Those that do not 'turn' are more desirable for future breeding.

Stoxx out
 
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GA spray on male plants

In my experience GA is very tricky.

Experience is backed by research in that a.) it suppresses rooting (bad for the plant), b.) it causes stretch, c.) it initiates early flowering (yay) in low concentrations, but d.) it suppresses male AND female flowering if too high of a concentration.

I would have thought spraying GA on a herm-tendency male would suppress that herm-tendency and mask it because it is a 'male flower' inducing chemical when applied to female plants. I would have thought the pure male test would more appropriately be done with IAA spray on males.

SB do you remember the GAA concentrations?

____

To others: I wouldn't smoke GAA sprayed flowers or leaves, and read the MSDS wear gloves, etc. Not too toxic, but doesn't hurt to be careful.
 
bluntmassa said:
I've heard of that making males grow female flowers to help select the best fathers. but I just heard it from a random guy on forums he said you can spray dutch masters reverse on male clones to make them form calyxes so you can better judge the males. I've been trying to find out if that would work but I haven't really seen anything else about it.
Click to expand...

I'm not familiar with Dutch masters reverse but Indole Acetic acid is a female-flower inducing hormone used to self a male. More broadly, auxins in general of interest for this. You might also want to look up ethylene.

GA is funky sometimes. It leads to extreme stretch and abnormally vigorous growth to the point of unhealthiness.

There are a lot more hormones of interest. It is a different forum but there was a summary in 2009 by one eza82.

Title is : "Hormones vs Co2 - Hormones Cheaper Potentially Yeild the Same!"

May be of interest to some on this thread.
 
I have nothing against hormones used on parents only used as a gene stock, because the kids will be clean.

But what is scary is hormones on consumables.

I don't care if it improves yield, organic is the way guys! At least for the final goods. No one wants to vape jasmonic acid.
 
bluntmassa said:
I've heard of that making males grow female flowers to help select the best fathers. but I just heard it from a random guy on forums he said you can spray dutch masters reverse on male clones to make them form calyxes so you can better judge the males. I've been trying to find out if that would work but I haven't really seen anything else about it.
Click to expand...

yep Nevil used dutch master reverse to flip his males for testing.
 
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