Grail: The Ultimate Haze Hybrid

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Come on kids, can't we all be nice to one another?

After all this is the mrnice forum, ain't it?http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

Anyway I am not sure what the norm is for haze C hybrids, but according to Nevil, back in 89-90 that practically all the 5hz going out from the Seedbank to the US was NL5HazeC, including the seeds I got. This is what Nevil told me.

Plenty of that haze had the incense trait, including my original cut, which came from 89-90 Seedbank 5hzC.

Also Nevil said that cross was the most powerful high of the Seedbank Haze Hybrids, that is why he put a warning on the label...
When I got the seeds originally I got them for one reason, and one reason only>> because of that warning on the label.

As far as I was concerned they were just haze, the original holland haze... You Know? The King of Cannabis? I read high times, that was all I needed to know...

The only true haze I have ever smoked in my opinion is my line of haze starting from the Seedbank seeds I got, but then I have never tried MNS Hazes. They actually do look like haze to me. It blows my mind...

But then you got to smoke it if you really want to know...

Anyway, the term "pure haze", the way most folks around here seem to be using it, for those in the know, is a bit of a misnomer. This is how I would use it:

pure humboldt county X NL5hzC X miscellaneous california deathbud Haze:

hhgr37e1.jpg


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Dam,
I thought the 80s nl5 x hz was all haze A?
I have one going an this goes aginst my reasearch...
 
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SCARHOLE said:
Dam,
I thought the 80s nl5 x hz was all haze A?
I have one going an this goes aginst my reasearch...
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Scarhole, here are some quotes from Nevil that you can add to your research.

Although most of what exists today of the Haze A male is descended from a single NL5XhazeA female clone, none of this was formally released by the Seedbank, and hybrids descending from this female came after the Seedbank.

Nevil said:

"Quote:
was NL5HzA seed ever released through a seedbank or only used for breeding?"

The male was taken from us much too early. I crossed it to the important cuttings and some of these were handed out, but not much. Some are still alive.
N.
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Source: http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-shantibaba-mrnice/4308-questions-nevil-30.html

All NL5XHaze that came from the Seedbank was Haze C, In fact I am fairly certain even the earlier NL1Xhaze crosses were also Haze C.

The above quote from Nevil Himself seems to indicate that every Haze cross from the Seedbank was Haze C, it certainly proves that none of it was HazeA.







Nevil said:
Still a lot of questions about haze and apparently a lot of conflicting stories.
I haven't been paying attention to what Sam the Skunkman has been saying. He lost me years ago and if he wants to come out from behind his alias and go toe to toe with me, well that will be just fine with me (hey David).
If he is saying that he gave me Purple Haze and it was crap, Well that's true. If he is saying that his lime green Haze was crap , well that's true too. If he is saying that he gave me a Haze cutting, well to be honest, I can't remember, but if he did it was crap. I seem to recall that he entered his lime Haze in a Cup, if he did he got his arse kicked.
The Haze seeds I got from Sam were grown in America in 69/70. I got them in the mid 80's. All of my Haze came from these seeds of which I was saying I got 7 plants. I was hoping that Sam would come out with something good from his remaining seeds, he never did and to my knowledge, nor did anyone else. The only good haze that hit the market was from two males A and C.
Hz C male produced 5Hz1 which won a Cup or 2, this was a daughter of NL5 which won a cup. 5Hz1 when crossed with Sk1x HzC produced Silver Haze which won a Cup. Ben renamed it Jack Herrer. Somebody else renamed it Diesel. 5HzC X Sk1Hz C was not as good as 5Hz1. Mango Haze (5Hz122)is a full sister to 5Hz1 and these two were the best out of tens of thousands.
Haze A produced 5HzA2 (5A2) and was featured on the cover of the 1990 catalogue and is the mother of Nevil's Haze, the father being HzC.
If you are smoking any good Haze, I'll bet you London to a brick that it comes from Haze A or Hz C or both!
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hempy said:
ha chalk i have seen mangohaz that are 50% haze go 17/18 weeks from seed but then from clone run at 9 ish weeks.

I have seen nevilles haze run 18 weeks and much longer to.

I read people post and say nothing of todays genetics offerd compears to old lines well there rong.

I have found nevilles haze mango haze ssh shithaze and other lines that not only compear to old school lines they equal the best its all in the selection and efferts you put into it.
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Hemp this is true but wouldnt there be pheno's that are alot faster you will always have the later one . I beleave it's all the pheno your looking for
 
Nevil said:
I've decided to start a new thread. It's a subject close to the hearts of many growers/breeders. It's something we need to take action on, BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE. We need to put aside our prejudices and ego's in this quest. It's all about the end result.

I'll give you my understanding of how to work with this variety.

As I said before, I got a total of 7 plants from the original seed stock. They were all different. The Original female (First Haze the one that I didn't keep a clone of) and Haze male A, may have been siblings, but just as likely not. Yet there was a common Haze like thread among all of them. This tells me that there was likely no pure haze among them. Haze did not improve when put back to itself as I was told and later discovered. People who think that B.C. is the hope for the future ( if it can be resurrected) are likely to be disappointed. A NL5xHzA would be the best mate for it to test this out. Haze males A+C were at best half brothers, but certainly shared a common ancestor, so my guess is that the inbreeding co-efficient to the haze ancestor in Nevil's Haze is at most 37.5%.
So if we want to go back to a Haze hybrid, we are looking for one not directly related to A or C. So don't talk to me about S.S.H. or Jack Herrer or Diesel or Sage (all the same plant). Double up HzC! I'm not saying that excellent plants can't be produced from inbreeding what we have, but we are going for the Ultimate (Grail). If anybody pinches this name I'll be pissed off.
This should start the ball rolling, I'll continue later.
N.
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7 (seven) Haze plants

Nevil's first post of this thread.

ax
 
6 from the 1969 seed, and 1 from the 1970 seed apparently.

Nevil said:
After the first batch of '69 Haze seeds only produced 1 plant, I decided to plant the rest. This produced 5 plants A,B,C,D and E.
Plants B,D and E were females, of which B was the best. I tried all possible combinations and the best was B x C. BC was actually grown commercially alongside 5HzC1, so it was a 10/11 week plant. This fact alone indicated that HzB was a Haze Hybrid to something early. I suspect that most of BC's quality came from Dad.
I planted the rest of the old seeds. One came out. O for Omega. It was a 1970 seed. I suspected that it was only 25% Haze with one parent being Indica. It too did not really pan out.
The males were the "goods". Without those two plants, I think that all would have been lost. If I'd only kept a cutting of the first female, whose genotype was closer to male A. I'm start to get that sad feeling again.

Ah well, you can be thankful that the seeds fell into my hands, otherwise you wouldn't know what I'm talking about.
N.
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we have just dates (years) , as far as i understand it, all infos were dependant on growing characteristics and by sams words, analytically

sam often stated wrong infos and lies, so those infos should be taken with a grain of salt
 
deran said:
we have just dates (years) , as far as i understand it, all infos were dependant on growing characteristics and by sams words, analytically

sam often stated wrong infos and lies, so those infos should be taken with a grain of salt
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Hi Deran...
That is not quite the truth.

You are forgetting about the labels...


Nevil said:
"
Quote:
As for Nevs and Sams stock both coming from Sams Haze stock he made after 76..
you know its hard to take any such info seriously if there is no back up evidence for those claims. so can source your info or give details ?"


The stock that I got from Sam was 69'/ 70'. He told me it was 60'/70' and warned me of poor germination results. The various batches were labeled and dated. All indications are that he was telling the truth. He was also reluctant to sell because of limited stock.
Is anyone suggesting that either he or I are lying about this?
N.
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hey (guru) josh :D

yep lables and indications .. marketing .. ?? as far as im concerned, we wont ever know and speculate in the dark deep forests of haze, 7 years is not just a short time, ppl are prone to mixing things up and forgettin some things (sure not on purpose, maybe on purpose), well i dont like sams story about the "breeding" of skunk, and if his seriousity with haze was similiar to that of skunk, than there is definately something to question about, were they labeld 7 years before in 69/70 , or after 76, and how much later is past 1976 ? none of us was there, like nobody here on the forums was on the moon to testify if the landing was true or just a fake .. a far fetched analogy, but only to demonstrate the helplessness of this subject, its all in haze lol

im sure not the only one who mixed up labels / seeds within the time of some weeks after harvesting seeds from buds, now imagine my position years later, instead of weeks

another thing that bothers me, are those fresh memories from all participants, although much time did pass by, think about witnesses on a court trial, many forgot what happend - lets say a year ago - but when its about cannabis, all could put their hands into fire and state that this was so, amen! suspicious to me ...
 
You must really like circus music. Me - not so much.
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They say a picture is worth a thousand words. If that holds any truth then that video speaks a million words and is applicable in so many places. Sorry you didn't like it.
 
hey guys, just finished reading my semi monthly update on this thread..
as usual, well worth the time.

i usually wait till the chores are done and take a toke or 2 , pop a cold one and read 50 0r so pages and today was no different.

congrats on keeping the real intent alive... almost want to say keep up the crusade (seeking the Grail) but those idiots from the middle ages kinda gave crusades a bad rep. anyway the SSH is kicking in and making the completion of any sentence impossible... so thanks to all you contributors...a special shout out to joshuahazen for your B S method for new growers...that cured several issues i was having.. the other growers here are cool also.
smokepole
 
i am still hoping to see a report of extreme potency from any of these

crosses or the ones used to assemble them
 
I finally got all of the mothers out of here

Now its time to start seeds. Hazes, Sativa/ Kush, and Haze/Kush crosses. I have High hopes for this year

 
O Doc I like the looks of this...

I bet those lil guys will get long and strong verrry quickly. I'm hoping this is the rebirth of Monstro Jumungo Sativas.
 
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