The True Origins of Haze- BigHerb's Article

[sativaXindica]

You should ask reef, he's a member here, PM him.

The idea bigherb knows anything about haze makes me laugh and laugh and laugh...

Greetings MNS, orangutang,

From what I have seen Bigherb has done an extensive amount of research on haze. He has documented growth, taste, smell, etc. Not to say he knows everything about haze, but if I had a question about it, I would proberely seek his opinion.

Best Regards

sativaXindica

 

[b0b_b1tch1n]

You should ask reef, he's a member here, PM him.

wouldnt you think members want truth ?

just saying

peace

 

[Eugene]

Haze folly and crazy internet entities...interesting at times...vulgar at others. I've visited a few Haze threads over on this site...and there seems to be common denominator themes belched by common denominator posters. I thank you for your mighty efforts.

 

[Namaskar]

You should ask reef, he's a member here, PM him.

The idea bigherb knows anything about haze makes me laugh and laugh and laugh...

I've got personal email from Reeferman, but i'm asking Bigherb since he wrote the story about Haze where this thread is all about.

Namaste

 

[JetLife]

reef came so late to the game in reference to haze im sure the guy has his own story!

 

[bigherb]

Bigherb

What do you know about Reeferman's Accidental Haze???

Namaste

I want to tell you I appreciate you have been a positive contribution an have stayed Focused on haze topic ,while all else occured


I know it was a punto Rojo X mexican maybe red hair .

It funny you ask because when he spoke about his long list of haze hybrids including something like Grail haze ,this had my eye .For a long time i took notice of his Description of haze bros haze aka original haze ,nobody really made a fuss about or even reported growing out stock but its been confirmed the stock is from Sams .Soo in my opinion its an intriguing fact/statement an id think reef is qualified to give a decent description of haze ,which is why i post his direct quotes to me below from threads i started to Reef at THC farm


side note

Reeferman was the first seed company aside from sensi that i had alook into thier catalog .I think if Reef hadnt had his personal issues he would have been a big positive influence in this community .This is in my opinion an experience ,I dont care much about his past but his work is somthing i consider worthy of takin a look at .when i had very little knowledge of cannabis it was easy to see his strains being sold in the Dam were of much higher quality than what was steadily available

All of my hazes are great or they get chucked fast as when I wait 13+ weeks it better twinkle my toes and romance my nose (lol) .
The nl5 haze would have been 3/4 haze or nev's haze I worked with that until I obtained the O-haze than I never looked back .
Accidental haze is not really a haze but rather a landrace selection that accidentally showed up with serious haze undertones .
I feel the mexican has serious connections to the early haze .
Reef

Hello the haze bro's or pure haze is a tall lanky pure sativa it has huge spaces between the internodes and stretches in a huge way .
No I do not know the haze bro's this strain was given to me by a old timer in Rotterdam that owns a greenhouse who has maintained it for many years since the mid 80's .
The smell is pretty much like cats piss and sandle wood .
The strain has never been hybridized and really still has lots of vigor for being so inbred I really don't know many generations it was inbred in holland .
RM


Folks have it in holland they just don't grow it because yields are low flowering times are very long , they get paid super high for SSH or nevils haze so why go through the trouble of growing a pure haze , also they stretch so much that they are hard to manage .
Rm

Id say its interesting he notes AH as having Serious haze undertones ,considering he has some of the most recent haze stock from Sams .I have no idea of when the haze stock is considered to come from ,but what i mean is he is one of the most recent breeders/guys to obtain it .



1luvbigherb

 

[biteme]

questions as to big herb's ability to grow haze have been proffered by others prior to orangutang and bh has shown me pics of haze grown in his back yard. but it is a pic and i concede it may have been grown by another however, i would concur with those who believe a fair amount of research and digging was done for this article prior to putting pen to paper?

it should be noted that there appears to be a fair amount of jealousy among some of these young writers and if mr. orangutang is as claimed, he is one who is fairly well published as well? nor do i necessarily disagree with him as to the veracity of claims made by bh but then that is the whole point! even if the theory presented by bh as to the origins of haze is 100% wrong, at a very minimum it opens new discourse on the topic and perhaps a hint as to proper direction for the future?

there are differing levels of info that is available. as a magazine editor/publisher, a first article by a new author has the benefit of appealing to readers who are new to the scene and also novices. a discourse on the haze a vs haze c male does little for these folks nor am i intimating that bh would not understand, but as a new writer he does appeal to a certain audience. when it comes to origin of haze, i have some crazy ideas myself. the boel had it first and then it became property of the dea and part of an even grander conspiracy. but i have to leave the writing and fighting to those young men with a temperament for it. peace-biteme

 

[bigherb]

Hi All

well i have been monitoring this thread closely and if i had to begin suspensions I would put Hempy, Bob B, and Big Herb on due to swearing and insults. So there are 3 or 4 more borderline cases for suspensions also.

Since things in the last 4 pages seem to be getting back to civility I will leave this post up as a last warning.

As there seems to be a few members who wish me to suspend, I will from now on. But just like a heated arguement, things get said and after a little time people see their folly. I prefer water to find its own level as well as it bores me t arbitrate on opinions of a story! The truth is relative to the eyes it is been viewed from...rather than get angry with different sides, why not learn there are other opinions.

Personally I think many of you have way too much time on your hands to even worry about historic references that can never be verified properly as the instigators also had their truths as they saw it...and even back then it was different as it is today. So rather than argue about unverifiable facts, why not grow some seeds and post the pictures so we can see what all this Hazy mess is all about?

Enjoy the weekend and try to see differences as a gift rather than anything else.All the best Sb

Shanti

I have always Respected your opinion,although i may not agree with it .

I have been disrespected countless times while ive not responded ,that didnt work .I wish to be a part of this community soo i will once again ignore the hate an negativity that has countinuosly come my way ,but i Doi exspect you to do as you have said an suspend

Ive asked many times an long ago for you to view those members actions who have long been on a destructive path here with no recourse or proper action .I can only hope you will stick to your word an suspend who ever it may be that deserves it.

If you say you have monitored this thread it wouldnt be of my opinion that you obviously had a late look or things would not have gone this far an certain individuals would be suspended before i blew my fuse .There is only soo long a man can hold his breath under water ,i consider myself a great swimmer an i have stayed out of the water for sometime because of its contamination .But i would not change anything i have said .The majority has spoken long ago an once again here in this thread its obvious that this community will not tolerate individuals who feel they are above above the rest an can do as they wish



Much respect always


1luvbigherb

 

[cannabisspfecund]

bigherb just remember who your calling a liar, NEVIL responsible along with shanti for mns hazes avilable today.

what is your intention bigherb? sam used 76 haze to produce what he has today (and probaly his south indian and thai) nevil used the '66,'67,'68 stock etc. none of them are pure anyway (except mayb first haze), how can sams older seed stock be more pure than the pre 70's haze seeds sam sold nevil? and how come the hazes coming from nevil have won the awards and not sams hazes?

this thread stunk from the start, how far will your crusade to discredit shanti's and nevil's work go?

cheers

 

[bigherb]

bigherb just remember who your calling a liar, NEVIL responsible along with shanti for mns hazes avilable today.

what is your intention bigherb? sam used 76 haze to produce what he has today (and probaly his south indian and thai) nevil used the 69,70,71 stock etc. none of them are pure anyway (except mayb first haze), how can sams older seed stock be more pure than the 70's haze seeds sam sold nevil? and how come the hazes coming from nevil have won the awards and not sams hazes?

this thread stunk from the start, how far will your crusade to discredit shanti's and nevil's work go?

cheers

My brother

Im not trying to debate or start a new issue .(this isnt a ticket to start the train or domino effect ).I just wish you see me for me an if not than speak your piece an go in peace .

I want you to understand my only intention is to find the truth ,I wish to discredit no one an havnt done soo .What i have said is just my opinion (as you have stated yours) an facts .

I havnt said anything ill about shanti ,an i could never .I could have used kinder word in reference to the past confusion concerning lineage an such but thats the past an i understand shanti an i believe he understand me .What ive said is fact not an opinion .

As for nevil concerning his description in the Sb catalog is what i referenced my question an revelance to an there was no clarification .Again i understand this as for his haze seed stock .Well you can see things how you would like an maybe its a matter of comprehension or maybe its just the will of not wanting to believe .

Nevil has told us in more detail in his few months here more than Sams in his many many years an alias on the net .I take Nevil to be very upfront an have a memory like an elephant .He painted the picture clear as day (btw I have every post saved from Nevil on haze),they say a pictures worth a thousand words and you have your own view an i have mine .


Im most thanful for all of Nevil an shantibaba contributions ,awards have noting to do with what ive said in the past or in this post


Remember

I have been told things by Sams in private aswell as from my source which confirm my thoughts an explain more clearly what SAMS HAS SAID IN THE PAST ,many post ive quoted in here .

Im no expert on anything an never claimed to be ,but i have an immense passion for haze an it has been shown since my first few posting on the net .



1luvbigherb

 

[cannabisspfecund]

My brother

Im not trying to debate or start a new issue .(this isnt a ticket to start the train or domino effect ).I just wish you see me for me an if not than speak your piece an go in peace .

I want you to understand my only intention is to find the truth ,I wish to discredit no one an havnt done soo .What i have said is just my opinion (as you have stated yours) an facts .

I havnt said anything ill about shanti ,an i could never .I could have used kinder word in reference to the past confusion concerning lineage an such but thats the past an i understand shanti an i believe he understand me .What ive said is fact not an opinion .

As for nevil concerning his description in the Sb catalog is what i referenced my question an revelance to an there was no clarification .Again i understand this as for his haze seed stock .Well you can see things how you would like an maybe its a matter of comprehension or maybe its just the will of not wanting to believe .

Nevil has told us in more detail in his few months here more than Sams in his many many years an alias on the net .I take Nevil to be very upfront an have a memory like an elephant .He painted the picture clear as day (btw I have every post saved from Nevil on haze),they say a pictures worth a thousand words and you have your own view an i have mine .


Im most thanful for all of Nevil an shantibaba contributions ,awards have noting to do with what ive said in the past or in this post


Remember

I have been told things by Sams in private aswell as from my source which confirm my thoughts an explain more clearly what SAMS HAS SAID IN THE PAST ,many post ive quoted in here .

Im no expert on anything an never claimed to be ,but i have an immense passion for haze an it has been shown since my first few posting on the net .



1luvbigherb

just rember nevils haze is only one step removed from that pre 70 stock. i put it to you that any other stock is vastly imbreed, quite often unselected, from older (less pure to begin with) haze stock 76, and even less pure today.

personally i think sam is jealous that nevil ended up with the best of the haze from him while sam was expecting to win out with the fresher stock, but it turns out the best of haze was contained in those earlier seeds. but hey lets not mix opinion with fact.

cheers

 

[bigherb]

just rember nevils haze is only one step removed from that early 70 stock. i put it to you that any other stock is vastly imbreed, quite often unselected, from older (less pure to begin with) haze stock 76, and even less pure today.

personally i think sam is jealous that nevil ended up with the best of the haze from him while sam was expecting to win out with the fresher stock, but it turns out the best of haze was contained in those earlier seeds. but hey lets not mix opinion with fact.cheers

I guess i gotta laugh

Im not goin carry on about facts but i will post up some quotes again for the hundred time

As I said before, I got a total of 7 plants from the original seed stock. They were all different. The Original female (the one that I didn't keep a clone of) and Haze male A, may have been siblings, but just as likely not. Yet there was a common Haze like thread among all of them. This tells me that there was likely no pure haze among them.

Well Bigherb, I wouldn't swear on a kilo of Haze Hash, that he told me that he grew them himself.
I seem to remember one batch had a number of years mixed together something like '66,'67,'68. A prominent ancestor was a thing called "Burning Bush". If Sam didn't grow burning bush then the person that did will be able to tell us more.Everything useful was from before 1970. The one plant that came up from '70 batch, Omega, was at best 25% haze and didn't make the grade.
N

You raise some interesting questions Bigherb, but not ones that I can answer. My guess is that Sam got these seeds from an old Master. One thing I am convinced of is that these seeds were part of his working gene bank and were irreplaceable. He was reluctant to sell.
I also clearly remember that the first 6 plants came from batches dated prior to 1970.
As I said before, the plants were hybrids. By all means, see if you can get to the bottom of this. I have given my testemony.
N.

Aside from you looking to pick a fight ,What i do appreciate is your interest .Maybe you look into Nevils post an the Grail thread abit more it might make you look at things different.


Those quotes above basically sum up everything ive said ,The last Bold highlight is the endall .(As I said before, the plants were hybrids).


Nevil admitts they were all hybrids .Sams admitts he didnt smoke haze till 71 an the South indian an thai were used toward the end of the 10 year production .Soo it dont add up to say that pure stock from 69 was a hybrid when nevil grew it out.

You either knew this all or still dont understand but i think i wrapped it up


1luvbigherb

 

[rimmeo]

I think the whole article is a bunch of shit prazing the rat sam for his acomplishments with haze and it was nevil that brought the plant to its fame it was nevil that made the NL#5x haze which was the begining of the strain haze thats when everybody was rushing to buy the haze seeds nobody else had the demand for haze it was nevil who made it famous not sam. To this day nobody has produced a hybrid of haze that competes with the NL#5x haze or nevils haze and a few more that i dont feel like naming I really couldnt beleave it when i read it in treating yourself mag. I just think your giving to much credit to the man who couldnt

 

[itsbenfun]

I guess I see it different. I think it gives praise to the old master, the originator, the brothers, sams, Nevil, shanti and maybe more importantly how old lines are still so important.

To each their own...

IBF

 

[cannabisspfecund]

i dont get you big herb? are you trying to say that nevils older stock is a haze hybrid but sams the more recent stock is pure haze? please explain as this makes no sense. or are you trying to say the haze was actually delveloped after nevils puchased stock was produced? or are you saying that nevil or sam lied about the age of the seeds that were sold?

explain youself

OPINION
south indian and thai were added later to the haze sam still had left, thats why the 'with south indian and thai added later' is in sams original haze description, hes chaged the haze story so he can call it original haze as if he breed it himself. der haze was already created, by someone else.

my understanding is 'burning bush' was a stongly thai leaning phenotype of haze, haze 1,2,3,4 and burning bush. so burning bush as a prominent ancestor, is simply 'thai leaning pure haze' as an ancestor to nevils haze selections.

sorry i got my years wrong i did go back to check nevs posts but i went in the wrong direction and got stuck re-reading his breeding techniques thread instead.

cheers

edit
changed the years from early 70's to late 60's as the original dates posted were incorrect .

cheers

 

[bigherb]

I think the whole article is a bunch of shit prazing the rat sam for his acomplishments with haze and it was nevil that brought the plant to its fame it was nevil that made the NL#5x haze which was the begining of the strain haze thats when everybody was rushing to buy the haze seeds nobody else had the demand for haze it was nevil who made it famous not sam. To this day nobody has produced a hybrid of haze that competes with the NL#5x haze or nevils haze and a few more that i dont feel like naming I really couldnt beleave it when i read it in treating yourself mag. I just think your giving to much credit to the man who couldnt

Opinion facts facts opinions


Fact

This article was about the origins of haze which nevil nor Sams had nothin to do with.I gave credit an a honorable mention to those who have the best haze stock today .The Article gave a very brief but nescessary mention of Sams


Fact

The three brothers came from New jersey .Soo i would imagine they had brought a supply to NYC .

Fact

jimi hendrix released purple haze in 67(which was the influence) to name the strain an was a very popular song

Fact

The original haze poster was disturbuted in 76


Fact

The R reports aka article with the haze brother were from if i recall 81 82.well id imagine that would have given some recognition to haze being in a magazine which had been poular for some years already



Considering the song ,the poster an the magazine .I think its not just of opinion that the haze had an audience an was quite popular before the weed scen became main stream .I have given credit where it was due as always an as you should


I think G should be spoken of more often when we mention haze as if it wasnt for him ,No Sams No Nevil would have haze tagged to their name an thus the future might not be soo hazyyy




1luvbigherb

 

[bigherb]

i dont get you big herb? are you trying to say that nevils older stock is a haze hybrid but sams the more recent stock is pure haze? please explain as this makes no sense. or are you trying to say the haze was actually delveloped after nevils puchased stock was produced? or are you saying that nevil or sam lied about the age of the seeds that were sold?

explain youself

OPINION
south indian and thai were added later to the haze sam still had left, thats why the 'with south indian and thai added later' is in sams original haze description, hes chaged the haze story so he can call it original haze as if he breed it himself. der haze was already created, by someone else.

my understanding is 'burning bush' was a stongly thai leaning phenotype of haze, haze 1,2,3,4 and burning bush. so burning bush as a prominent ancestor, is simply 'thai leaning pure haze' as an ancestor to nevils haze selections.

sorry i got my years wrong i did go back to check nevs posts but i went in the wrong direction and got stuck re-reading his breeding techniques thread instead.

cheers

You are confused an confusing me

Id would have enjoyed explaing better if you were as enthusiatic as you were nasty .ill make my last attempt


Just because you put a porsche sign on a hyundai doesnt make it a porsche .I have said in the past why would Sams speak about burning bush which was released in 81 when giving Nevil his haze stock supposedly from 69 .What he actually said was it was an ancestor to the haze meaning of descent


quote from Sams

"All of the S Indian and Thai crosses were toward the end of Haze production. Not only males were used for crosses. The 3 year timeline was just someones dream , Haze was grown for over 10years by the haze bros ,

This above quote would mean that it would not be possible for 69 stock to contain haze ,i am just sharing what has been posted but i have more proof .



What im sayin in case you still dont see it is i dont believe that Sams gave Nevil 69 haze stock i believe it was from 76 or later .To add i dont believe Sams had 69 haze stock himself .I believe Nevil was given the Haze hybrids that Sams created aka line he tried to save ,I also believe the haze he broght to holland was from his preservation works an he never sold the santa cruz stock to anyone


Another note is is beyond laughter to me that you an others would believe that Sams would give Nevil haze stock older that what he possed.Why would Sams give nevil 69 stock an keep a later one ?

Remember this if the haze contains thai ,it is not Ohaze from Santa cruz

Its obvious your not familar with the posted history from Sams or nevil .If your interested just do some research ,you can search the thread an type my name for further details .




1luvbigherb

 

[Angus]

You are confused an confusing me

Id would have enjoyed explaing better if you were as enthusiatic as you were nasty .ill make my last attempt


Just because you put a porsche sign on a hyundai doesnt make it a porsche .I have said in the past why would Sams speak about burning bush which was released in 81 when giving Nevil his haze stock supposedly from 69 .What he actually said was it was an ancestor to the haze meaning of descent


quote from Sams




This above quote would mean that it would not be possible for 69 stock to contain haze ,i am just sharing what has been posted but i have more proof .



What im sayin in case you still dont see it is i dont believe that Sams gave Nevil 69 haze stock i believe it was from 76 or later .To add i dont believe Sams had 69 haze stock himself .I believe Nevil was given the Haze hybrids that Sams created aka line he tried to save ,I also believe the haze he broght to holland was from his preservation works an he never sold the santa cruz stock to anyone


Another note is is beyond laughter to me that you an others would believe that Sams would give Nevil haze stock older that what he possed.Why would Sams give nevil 69 stock an keep a later one ?

Remember this if the haze contains thai ,it is not Ohaze from Santa cruz

Its obvious your not familar with the posted history from Sams or nevil .If your interested just do some research ,you can search the thread an type my name for further details .




1luvbigherb

I haven't read the whole thread just too much argument and crazynes.
but this last post is somewhat of a shocker to me.

What information lead you to believe that Nevil did not have "69" stock.
Nev clearly stated he did. Quite a profound statement to call a legend a liar.

 

[matthewriot]

I dont think it could be spelled out anymore simply if you put a connect the dots puzzle in the middle herbie. Some people just don't get what they don't wanna get. Then they get mad if you ignore their inane questions and comments. Anyway, I wish we could delete the rest and stick the first part of it... anybody, anybody?

 

[jack hairy]

why does everyone have to be considered a liar if the information they were given was wrong?

who knows what sam gave nevil, just because 69 was on the bag doesnt mean it was seeds from 69, they could in fact be hybrids that sam made with 69 haze stock and thai, couldnt it?

nevil did some amazing things with whatever he was given.