Widow Grail cookin?

CannaFish

Well-known member
But assuming all those plants are alive, wouldnt the shortest way to anything Grail-like be using a Neville's, combine Skunk/HzA to Haze C to make a 75% Haze with Skunk instead Of NL5, combining these 2 plants, select a mother and put Haze C to it? That would be 87.5% Haze .Will prolly flower for 20 plus weeks but there might be something workable to be found in that seeds.
from my outside observation, it seems SB puts priority into making varieties that are helpful to medical patients and are practical to grow with stability in all indoors/greenhouse/outdoor settings. This means using stuff like afghans and culling individual past the 12-14 week mark.

I don't think he wants to make seed for 16-20 week tropicals varieties right now. I think the market for those growers are much smaller.
 

musashi

Site Moderator
Staff member
Time to smoke some Doors brah!
Ha, all in the same boat trying to understand. Trying to piece together something that occurred many years ago is somewhat fruitless, fraught with guessing unless you were there. My take is two breeders got together for collaboration. Both had genetics/knowledge to offer. During there time together good things were created that won Cups. Nev got into difficulties. SB continued the work that was begun between the two. If I were a gambling man as @longball would say.
The AC was an outgrowth of the Grail project. It seems both agreed that NH had to be part of the formulation. They further agreed that when A and C were combined, it resulted in stellar plants. Nev wanted to add something outside of that inbreeding to get to the Grail. From SB in 2009, "the Haze AC comes from one of the old seeds Nev worked on years ago and one I have been working on the passed 3.5 years." SB continued the work with AC and in 2009 offering 3 new hybrids to testers. "well I have some new Haze hybrids completed and will need some volunteer testers for indoor only...sorry not making a distinction between outdoor or indoor but wish to get this seed tested only in rooms." These new hybrids were AfSk x AC (Cure), EQ/Sk x AC (U2), NL5Hz x AC (Doors) i.e. the R&R series. To me, it looks like after the creation of AC, it was used to boost and improve existing cultivars of which NL5HzC was one of them.
As far as the AC side, there was agreement from both that NH had to be in the formulation. Nev said, "Northern Lights 5 crossed with Haze male C. Is the best Indica / Sativa hybrid that I've ever done." Did he use his fav hybrid? He further said. "I was alluding to the fact that Nl5xHzC X Sk1xHzC (whatever you want to call it) is double up HzC, and further inbreeding to HzC, will not give us Grail."
The skunk contribution? Some have gone so far as to say it was an SSH (C) or Mango (A) that was added to the equation. If that were the case, I would be inclined to think Nev would use his SSH but that wouldn't make sense considering his above statement. With SB continuing the work, maybe the Mango is in there. But what do I know? It's probably something else entirely. I wasn't there. I am hoping to get some clarification from SB soon.
Whether it is the R&R series or the newer Holy Smoke and Grail, what I can tell you is that the AC is here to stay as it does provide meaningful improvements in smell, taste and effect to whatever it is combined with.

Door #15- Sensational!
doors #15 9_5.jpg

Does OP want to rename this thread lol?

🤙Mu
 

CannaFish

Well-known member
Hi All
Just to be clear about the breeding stories it really works like this
Nev Haze is made with Haze C male and NL5 x Haze A, while the Super Silver Haze is made from Skunk x Haze C male to NL5 xHzC and Mango Haze is made up of Skunk Haze C male and a NL5 x Hz C selection called 122.

hope that is clear....Sb
ASH and Angels Breathe is made with the Afghan Haze C male side....hope that curbs all the interest...but SSH and Mango Haze are pedigree breeds incorporating both sides of Haze A and Haze C combinations....in their breeding.

All the best Sb
 

musashi

Site Moderator
Staff member
Interesting, here's another

QUOTE="shantibaba, post: 2064, member: 3"]
Hi All
just to clear the air from confusion and before you all go making a legend from myth here is how it was done and is done still....

Nh is made from Haze C male which is made by two pure haze parents from 1969....then the female side of NH is made from Haze A combined to NL5 or NL5Haze A where Haze A was also made by two pure Haze parents also from 1969

Haze A is no longer alive only Haze C male is along with several other different sativa lines. but plants with the lineage of Haze A are still alive and carrying the genes within.

SSH is made up of Haze C combined to Skunk 1 or Skunk HzC which is the male side, the female side is Haze C combined to NL5 or NL5HzC

the Mango comes from a parallel cross same as SSH but with one difference Haze A male combined to Sk 1 or Sk HzA being the male plant, the female is NL5HzC....that is the breeding of those three plants...
[/QUOTE]


🤙Mu
 

Jahnova

MNS Award Winner
SB said recently mango was C on top and bottom
My C5 smells more Mango than Mango Haze
Interesting, here's another

QUOTE="shantibaba, post: 2064, member: 3"]
Hi All
just to clear the air from confusion and before you all go making a legend from myth here is how it was done and is done still....

Nh is made from Haze C male which is made by two pure haze parents from 1969....then the female side of NH is made from Haze A combined to NL5 or NL5Haze A where Haze A was also made by two pure Haze parents also from 1969

Haze A is no longer alive only Haze C male is along with several other different sativa lines. but plants with the lineage of Haze A are still alive and carrying the genes within.

SSH is made up of Haze C combined to Skunk 1 or Skunk HzC which is the male side, the female side is Haze C combined to NL5 or NL5HzC

the Mango comes from a parallel cross same as SSH but with one difference Haze A male combined to Sk 1 or Sk HzA being the male plant, the female is NL5HzC....that is the breeding of those three plants...

🤙Mu
[/QUOTE]
So if SK1/HzA also has a sister alive, can we please have a Sk1/HzAxHzC? Pleeeeeeaaaaassssseeeeee!
 

CannaFish

Well-known member
Yes musashi I've seen that one a few times. Honestly I don't put too much weight on the Haze A vs Haze C male.... unless someone wants to gift me a C5 and a A5 cut. I've seen too many contradictory posts to make it not important about which haze A or C it came from. Haze C seems to be the dominant player and favorite with SB.
I've got some mango haze and inbred growing now, very excited to flower them, the proof will be in the flowers. I'm a fan of the haze plants and I love hanging out and chatting with you guys, but I'm gonna take break for awhile. I can't keep going on about what Shanti was talking about in 2009 in 2021.
 

Jahnova

MNS Award Winner
Yes musashi I've seen that one a few times. Honestly I don't put too much weight on the Haze A vs Haze C male.... unless someone wants to gift me a C5 and a A5 cut. I've seen too many contradictory posts to make it not important about which haze A or C it came from. Haze C seems to be the dominant player and favorite with SB.
I've got some mango haze and inbred growing now, very excited to flower them, the proof will be in the flowers. I'm a fan of the haze plants and I love hanging out and chatting with you guys, but I'm gonna take break for awhile. I can't keep going on about what Shanti was talking about in 2009 in 2021.
Having grown both HzA as HzC crosses i already ecplained why to me the C male has more value. HzA was not for everyone. What was written about NL5HzA is all true. It was a knock down high and really not for everyone, even scary to lots of people. Same goes for AG13. Very powerful and for some people in the wrong way. Haze C is much more friendly and combines better. Although strong too just more enjoyable, more feminine...
 

musashi

Site Moderator
Staff member
Agreed, that's why I rarely involve myself in these "he said, she said" pissing matches. The past is the past and while curiosity lingers, IMO it's all about what one has in hand. Lots of good shit to grow and smoke, NOW. As I've said before, “Less bullshit more growing, brah!” Good luck with your grow!

🤙 Mu
 

Islandgrower

MNS Award Winner
@Jahnova
 

musashi

Site Moderator
Staff member
They are essentially one and the same braddah. I believe he's basically saying the mom is skunk genetics, that is derived from Shit.

🤙Mu
 

CannaFish

Well-known member
Ok I thought I was done with this mango misdirection, then as I'm cleaning up my desktop I read this snapshot I recently took...

The post from above he says same father, in another post he says different father.

I think @shantibaba would know the specifics of his flagship variety. I don't know if the specifics are so important to the customer, I may not have the palette to tell the difference between A or C or B or D, but for the breeder to not be able to divulge the pedigree correctly is not a good sign.

Screen Shot 2020-08-14 at 2.09.46 PM.png
 

High-mish

MNS Award Winner
Is haze c however it appears Shanti was unsure whether it was sk1 or shit .
-> As long as the shit is dope and the dope ain't shit, let's all smile and be happy.

-> Let's share another interesting bible fact which is related to the above. When Yaakov wanted to marry Rachel, he first had to marry her sister Lea and afterwards he could marry Rachel. Both women had concubines: Bilha (Rachel) and Zilpa (Lea) who also married Yaakov. In the end Yaakov had 12 sons with these 4 women who laid the foundation for the Israelite tribe.

Now can someone please tell this n00b who Yaakov, Rachel, Lea, Bilha and Zilpa are in our discussion? Because I'm completely lost tbh
 

wisp

MNS Award Winner
I feel like the pattern is…

SB will release a strain and give a general pedigree.

Then members will start to question specifics about that pedigree.

Then SB will attempt to clarify but then adds new info to the mix.

Then members will debate and argue about what SB meant for the next decade….

Yeah and when you work with multiple hybrids it's obviously confusing
 

longball

MNS Award Winner
@High-mish said: "Now can someone please tell this n00b who Yaakov, Rachel, Lea, Bilha and Zilpa are in our discussion? Because I'm completely lost tbh"

Hello High-mish!

The story of 'Yaakov and the 4 Women' is based on the ancient fable of 'Longball and the Autoflower Girls'. The names were changed to protect both the guilty(Longball) and the innocent(Autoflower Girls). Longball 'knew' the girls in the biblical sense and 12 children were produced. Legally and biblically, they were all Longball's children. It turns out one of the Autoflower Girls was a promiscuous whore, and it is possible that Longball was not actually the father of all the children though legally and biblically he was.

The fable, 'Longball and the Autoflower Girls' is loosely based on the semi-true story of 'The Creation of SSH and Mango'. Sometimes in stories facts become mixed with legend. As the famous newspaper man Dutton Peabody said: "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend!"

Hope this clears things up for you!

All the best LB
 
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