Uncle Jack's indoor horticulture

longball said:
^^^^^ on the same page, a few paragraph's down....."The label landrace includes regional cultigens..." sigh
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It's a long article perhaps you could include the quote I can't be bothered reading the whole thing.
Struggling to see how a cultigen can be regional if it is made in a laboratory.
Do we mean the lab was regional?
In the sticks maybe.
Please break it down for us LB
I am curious.
 
Uncle Jack said:
Well I beg to differ @Worn Down Soul
Your definition of landrace needs broadening.

A landrace is a domesticated, locally adapted,[2][3][4] often traditional[5] variety of a species of animal or plant that has developed over time, through adaptation to its natural and cultural environment of agriculture and pastoralism, and due to isolation from other populations of the species.[2] Landraces are distinct from cultivars and from standard breeds.[6]

Cultigen - An organism, especially a cultivated plant, such as a banana, not known to have a wild or uncultivated counterpart

This is the first I have heard of this word so thanks for the share.

All in all we are starting to split straws around here.
There is the definition of a landrace and it was being used correctly.
You are using the word cultigen incorrectly.
All the Best.
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Look at definition two.

In the instance of a kune kune for an example, it is a variety of adapted but domesticated pig. In the instance of a hashplant, not taken care of, selection unmaintained, you are still looking at a revision to a more feral form. Another example is a landrace broccoli variety, found at a farm in New Jersey and now widely cultivated. When found, it had reverted to something more similar to an Asian flowering broccoli, despite coming from a heading variety. That doesn't mean that it reverted to a form identical to wild Brassica oleracea, whatever the hell that looked like. So it went from being a cultigen to a landrace. My point is that these plants, in their present form, only exist via human selection. While they have regional adaptations. They don't grow on their own, as is. Even if a few manage to establish themselves somewhere. Their characteristics will revert to a more feral form, over time, like the broccoli mentioned.
 
Worn Down Soul said:
Look at definition two.

In the instance of a kune kune for an example, it is a variety of adapted but domesticated pig. In the instance of a hashplant, not taken care of, selection unmaintained, you are still looking at a revision to a more feral form. Another example is a landrace broccoli variety, found at a farm in New Jersey and now widely cultivated. When found, it had reverted to something more similar to an Asian flowering broccoli, despite coming from a heading variety. That doesn't mean that it reverted to a form identical to wild Brassica oleracea, whatever the hell that looked like. So it went from being a cultigen to a landrace. My point is that these plants, in their present form, only exist via human selection. While they have regional adaptations. They don't grow on their own, as is. Even if a few manage to establish themselves somewhere. Their characteristics will revert to a more feral form, over time, like the broccoli mentioned.
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Ok. Sounds fair.
Let me go away and lick my wounds for a minute.
I'll be back to fight another day WDS. Respect.
Somewhere, sometime, I don't know where, I don't know when....
All lyrics aside, I will put on my science hat and get down to the business of informing myself.
I have obviously let things slide too far in one direction......forgive me
I come from a penal colony..

I love you all like brothers even though it feels like the future just hit me upside the head.............


All the Best
 
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Dark and prescient that song. I was really enjoying this G13Haze/Nordle thread. How did it get mired in nomenclature and taxonomy? Did I enunciate correctly? 🤔? More than ever we need kindness towards each other in these spiritually dark times. How about we forgo the minutia and the question of semantics and get back to the plants?

mu
 
musashi said:
Dark and prescient that song. I was really enjoying this G13Haze/Nordle thread. How did it get mired in nomenclature and taxonomy? Did I enunciate correctly? 🤔? More than ever we need kindness towards each other in these spiritually dark times. How about we forgo the minutia and the question of semantics and get back to the plants?

mu
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I guess I didn't realize that a discussion is inherently hostile. It relates to the Nordle side of the equation in so much as it's phytochemistry is still very much like that of a standard hash making cultigen. Where most things labeled "Afghani" etc, have had most of the chemical diversity bred out of them in favor of THC alone. So that was how it came up. It just seems interesting that in Cannabis growing parlance anything not of American or European breeding tends to be called a "landrace." Where if it were tomatoes, all it takes is the variety to have been kept intact for about 30 years for it to be considered a heirloom. The verbiage just doesn't give the farmers from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Laos, India, Nepal, etc, their due credit and seems an overuse of the term is all. Then if you are talking about something recently introduced, even if previously an heirloom. Is this one an heirloom form or a recently modified hybrid of some sort, even if of local origin? So "cultigen" would be the most descriptive, without being being presumptive. "Landrace" seems more appropriate for plants, with some feral characteristics due to the low intensity of crop selection or via being crop-weed complexes, where cross pollination with wild stands frequently occur.

Sorry to bother you guys all the same.
 
Worn Down Soul said:
I guess I didn't realize that a discussion is inherently hostile.
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A discussion is not inherently hostile. It only takes one person to make it hostile. Without nomenclature, taxonomy, and semantics, how exactly are we suppose to describe our plants? We can't. We can learn what the fuck the word means before we use it or argue about it.

"'It's just semantics' is a common retort people use when arguing their point. What they mean is that their argument or opinion is more valid than the other person's. It's a way to be dismissive of language itself as carrier for ideas. It implies that ideas and arguments can be separated from the words and phrases used to encode those ideas. The irony, of course, is that the words and phrases we use are the ideas. There is no way to communicate a complex argument or message without language. Language and thought are completely interconnected. In fact, words shape concepts and can lead to drastically different understandings of the same thing. For example, inheritance taxes can be called 'death taxes' or 'estate taxes.' These two political phrases frame the same tax law in drastically different ways. Semantics really matters."

BTW, cultigens are not made in laboratories. Learn something about a subject before starting hostile discussions.

Semantics
 
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Uncle Jack said:
Cultigen is not a universally accepted term.
It really could be replaced by the word cultivated for simplicity's sake.
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Incorrect. Cultivar and cultigen are related terms used in the field of agriculture and horticulture to describe different categories of cultivated plants, but they have distinct meanings.
 
Uncle Jack said:
Could we just say cultivated hash variety.
Then we are all on the same page.
We are not writing dissertations here.
It's hard enough with the cultural divide as it is!
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Also incorrect. Words have specific meanings and usage. Open a dictionary and see for yourself. You can use a word correctly and not write a dissertation. Stop insisting words can only be used your way and you won't look so.......culturally divided.
 
longball said:
Also incorrect. Words have specific meanings and usage. Open a dictionary and see for yourself. You can use a word correctly and not write a dissertation. Stop insisting words can only be used your way and you won't look so.......culturally divided.
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Much respect....you can use whatever words you like.
I have no axe to grind here, it's a free country my brother.
I did not introduce any aggression either as far as I can tell.
I may have been a bit definitive at times when I was not in possession of all the facts but that is all.
For that I apologize.
My teacher's all had problems with me, so don't think it's just you
All the best

 
Uncle Jack said:
Much respect....you can use whatever words you like.
I have no axe to grind here, it's a free country my brother.
I did not introduce any aggression either as far as I can tell.
I may have been a bit definitive at times when I was not in possession of all the facts but that is all.
For that I apologize.
My teacher's all had problems with me, so don't think it's just you
All the best

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Hey Uncle, that’s me too. All my teachers from first grade on had problems with me but now I realize it was they who had the problem, not me. Grade school were a bunch of old hags…That’s my story and I’m sticking to it…

Anyway, John Prine. I smiled a lot with him. Chicago boy or suburbs. Another was A hole in daddy’s arm where all the money goes. He was great and went through a lot in his last years but stayed strong. A gal friend of mine was really into his music and him when nobody knew him.
 
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Hey @BrotherBoris,
pretty sure i was a handful for teachers.
I remember being removed from the classroom by my ear on one occassion.
Having to brush my teeth with soap on numerous occassions.
Writing lines like Bart Simpson outside the Principals office every other day.
Who new you were not supposed to start laughing every time the home economics teacher mentioned balls. lol.

As Bob Dylan said of John Prine "Prine’s stuff is pure Proustian existentialism. Midwestern mindtrips to the nth degree"
Trust Bob to have a novel take on things.
John gives an interesting anecdote about the writing of Sam Stone during the House of Strombo concert.
He wrote it on his lunch break as a postman, he got the idea from a customers magazine that he was reading on his lunchbreak.
Very resourceful man.
 
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Uncle Jack said:
Hey @BrotherBoris,
pretty sure i was a handful for teachers.
I remember being removed from the classroom by my ear on one occassion.
Having to brush my teeth with soap on numerous occassions.
Writing lines like Bart Simpson outside the Principals office every other day.
Who new you were not supposed to start laughing every time the home economics teacher mentioned balls. lol.

As Bob Dylan said of John Prine "Prine’s stuff is pure Proustian existentialism. Midwestern mindtrips to the nth degree"
Trust Bob to have a novel take on things.
John gives an interesting anecdote about the writing of Sam Stone during the House of Strombo concert.
He wrote it on his lunch break as a postman, he got the idea from a customers magazine that he was reading on his lunchbreak.
Very resourceful man.
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They had some brutal punishments then and what kind of person makes a young kid brush his teeth with soap? They were the sick ones Unc. I got locked in the small bathroom at the back of the room in first grade with lights turned off and had no idea then or now what I did to make that old hag treat me like that. In high school half the teachers went and had liquid lunches…

But we’re still here and survived. I still speak and say what others don’t understand and take wrong but maybe not as much. At least we have a great hobby and fellow enthusiasts as us and some guys who like us just rubbed the authorities wrong as kids and as we do as grownups. Too bad the world has been run by alcoholics and not pot smokers…
 
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